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inq.serge
27-12-2009, 15:54
What's better for an unmarkend ungifted Runesword/Runeshield Chaos lord; A Chaos Dragon, or a Manticore and a tzeentchian lvl2 sorcerer with book of secrets?

Unuhexium
27-12-2009, 16:41
I'd probably go with the dragon and try to fit the sorcerer somehow anyway.

inq.serge
27-12-2009, 17:48
I already have a tzeentchian sorcerer. And a nurglic. And a slaaneshi. Was just thinking of adding one more.

Taishar
28-12-2009, 01:32
For winning the dragon is better.


Cheers

MayorDaley
04-01-2010, 05:42
Manticore is a 200 pt armourless model of FAIL. The model itself is a nightmare, and will make you crazy trying to rank it up to your enemy's models. For 120 more pts the Dragon is sweet.

Unuhexium
04-01-2010, 17:36
I'm all for the dragon as well. It's a freaking mountain of hurt (literally speaking) that will hit the opponent straight in the face. A Chaos Lord on a dragon is just about the most evil combat monster out there. My dragon lord tied up half a Lizardmen army for three turns and even survived the combat (two EotGs + saurus warriors with hero). Would like to see a manticore pull that off.

snottlebocket
04-01-2010, 18:45
The biggest problem with the manticore is it's frenzy. There's a good chance you'll end up frenzied at least once per battle and you really don't want your chaos lord sitting on a frenzied flying lion.

tarrym
04-01-2010, 20:16
I agree that frenzy is an issue - in particular the baiting problem for your prized chaos lord.

However failing the test on Ld9 is only a 1/6 chance. So yes, over the course of an entire battle if your lord is out in the open (i.e. not in combat) at the start of every turn then chances are you will fail one of these tests and potentially get baited if your opponent happens to have a suitable unit close enough on the turn you fail the test.

However with a flying mount and a combat monster riding on top I doubt anyone plans to be out of combat at the start of every turn! 1-2 turns max should be spent getting into position after that frenzy should be a welcome bonus as you let the carnage loose amongst your opponents flank/rear!


So given all that I'd say the manticore shouldn't be dismissed so easily. Particularly if you struggle to squeeze in a 700pt character who MUST issue challenges.

Malorian
04-01-2010, 20:18
Dragon all the way.

Johnny Sigmar
05-01-2010, 02:25
I'd go with a manticore if you'd like to try something different. I've seen alot of dragons but only a few manticores, although I'm sure there's a reason for that.

snottlebocket
05-01-2010, 15:34
I agree that frenzy is an issue - in particular the baiting problem for your prized chaos lord.

However failing the test on Ld9 is only a 1/6 chance. So yes, over the course of an entire battle if your lord is out in the open (i.e. not in combat) at the start of every turn then chances are you will fail one of these tests and potentially get baited if your opponent happens to have a suitable unit close enough on the turn you fail the test.

However with a flying mount and a combat monster riding on top I doubt anyone plans to be out of combat at the start of every turn! 1-2 turns max should be spent getting into position after that frenzy should be a welcome bonus as you let the carnage loose amongst your opponents flank/rear!


So given all that I'd say the manticore shouldn't be dismissed so easily. Particularly if you struggle to squeeze in a 700pt character who MUST issue challenges.

It's a large target with a 20 inch charge range. Your enemy doesn't have to bait him, all it has to do is frenzy before it sees a flank and you'll probably get screwed into a frontal charge you won't win.

Gaargod
05-01-2010, 16:05
Lords riding dragons can front charge a unit and take it down. Its not reliable, because of 'i have to challenge' rule, but its very possible.

Incidentally, do give him a mark and gift. Nurgle/Tzeentch rocks for protection, Diabolic Splendour for terror bombing. Gives him something to do. If you're going to take a dragon lord, kit him out properly.

i.e. mark of tzeentch, collar of khorne, chaos runesword, enchanted shield, favour of the gods (he's going to be in challenges anyways, its more of a 'do i have 5pts to spare?' item). Hits hysterically hard at 12 S6 attacks (half WS9, half WS6) on or off the charge. 2+ armour, MR2 and 5+ ward keeps him fairly safe.


On the other hand... don't take him at all. Because of the EotG rule, he's just not worth it against too many armies which take champions (he becomes a cavalry killer, which doesn't have the SCR to resist the +6 from the challenge)

GWItheUltimate
05-01-2010, 21:14
Hey by the way which model you guys use for the Chaos Lord on Chaos Dragon ?!? Is there any model available ? Will GW release one soon ? Do you have any conversion suggestions about it ?

Thanks,

GWI

Unuhexium
05-01-2010, 21:25
There is no model for the chaos dragon at this point. I managed to find Egrimm van Horstmann's dragon in the scrapbox at my local dealer. I'll probably post a pic in the gallery when I've put some more paint on it.

jmcg1989
06-01-2010, 15:28
There is no model for the chaos dragon at this point. I managed to find Egrimm van Horstmann's dragon in the scrapbox at my local dealer. I'll probably post a pic in the gallery when I've put some more paint on it.

there is the galrauch model, but its not particularly easy to get a rider on top of it

i have seen it done though

tarrym
06-01-2010, 15:34
It's a large target with a 20 inch charge range. Your enemy doesn't have to bait him, all it has to do is frenzy before it sees a flank and you'll probably get screwed into a frontal charge you won't win.

So make sure you're lord is facing the other way until you are ready to charge :)

Edit:

I have converted a carnosaur. Add a pair of plastic dragon wings, several chains (from an old necklace my sister didn't want) and put the slaanehi character on top and hey presto.

End Edit

inq.serge
06-01-2010, 16:09
My chaos lord: http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/AlfredoPistoleto/DSCN4246.jpg

Manticore (wip): http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/AlfredoPistoleto/DSCN4223.jpg

More pics of those in my plog (see my sig).

I'll convert a dragon out of GS and a plastic dragon, unless, a Chaos dragon does not have to have 2 heads, then I'll just put him on it, with a fancy saddle.

snottlebocket
06-01-2010, 17:12
So make sure you're lord is facing the other way until you are ready to charge :)


End Edit

Ah yes, I love it when people do that. It's so funny when you can just run something past it and not just bait it, but bait it back to it's own table edge. Or just keep stuff near so people don't even know what to do with their own model anymore.

I love frenzy. All they get is one measly extra attack, but oh the myriad of ways you can screw with them as an opponent.

tarrym
07-01-2010, 18:59
Ah yes, I love it when people do that. It's so funny when you can just run something past it and not just bait it, but bait it back to it's own table edge. Or just keep stuff near so people don't even know what to do with their own model anymore.

I love frenzy. All they get is one measly extra attack, but oh the myriad of ways you can screw with them as an opponent.


But again, all this is assuming that you fail the test for frenzy on the same turn your opponent happens to have something in place which will scupper you :)

LKHERO
07-01-2010, 19:02
For winning the dragon is better.


Cheers

The above is accurate. Manticore for fluff and KB fun.

Havock
07-01-2010, 22:47
Tzeentch (for the ward) Chaos Lord on Manticore: Bronze Armour of Zhrakk, Axe of Khorne, collar of Khorne. And a shield of course.

Buckets of fun. Alternatively, possibly more fun, swap the collar for a talisman of 6+ ward and take a pendant of slaanesh.

Peregijn
09-01-2010, 06:18
I'll convert a dragon out of GS and a plastic dragon, unless, a Chaos dragon does not have to have 2 heads, then I'll just put him on it, with a fancy saddle.


chaos dragons do still have two heads. but the plastic one comes with two heads so you only have to greenstuf up a nec, its pretty easy and looks awsome

LordoftheBrassThrone
28-01-2010, 06:47
i wud very rarely take a dragon, unless u r playing a game over 3000pts. The majority of games i play are 2000 or less, and so u cus quite easily spend 700pts on the lord on dragon, as opposed 2 my lord who costs 350. And with the compulsion 2 challenge, the maximum overkill u can get 2wards CR is 5, and if u cant get this on a unit champion from a lord and a manticore, u need new dice. And 4 350pts, the only characters who will take him out reliably will b at least half agen his n umber of points, I can guarantee it.

inq.serge
28-01-2010, 08:08
I play 3000.

Alltaken
28-01-2010, 11:32
hey is the dragon lord the only interesting build? Because I'm really tempted to try one on a juggernaut. Really interested in running one attached to a another chaos hero BSB + warbanner. Both hit hard and get enough combat res to be pretty nasty agains big infatry units.

Havock
29-01-2010, 12:30
i wud very rarely take a dragon, unless u r playing a game over 3000pts. The majority of games i play are 2000 or less, and so u cus quite easily spend 700pts on the lord on dragon, as opposed 2 my lord who costs 350. And with the compulsion 2 challenge, the maximum overkill u can get 2wards CR is 5, and if u cant get this on a unit champion from a lord and a manticore, u need new dice. And 4 350pts, the only characters who will take him out reliably will b at least half agen his n umber of points, I can guarantee it.

That's why you use the dragons absurd mobility to get flanks. Can can charge over units that turn to face you head-on and plunge into a unit way back.

Dragons are good, as in 'easy button good' once you get the hang of it.
I prefer a sorcerer lord on mine though, the dragon hits hard enough, and a runesword brings back ye olde days of warrior-mages.
The damage you can do when you park yourself next to a unit and flame the everlasting crap out of it after you have -hopefully- already brought some hurt in the magic phase is... pleasant.