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AngloHellequin
29-12-2009, 09:33
I have a 1500pt game coming up tomorrow with my Empire army against my Brother's Dwarfs. So far I've only been playing 1000pts against Lizardmen so adding another 500pts and also including no wizards (as I see it, it's wasted points against Dwarfs) is turning out to be difficult.

Here is my list so far

Captain (General) 79
Barded Warhorse, Full Plate, Shield, Biting Blade

Captain 100
BSB, AOMI

Captain 73
Full Plate, Enchanted Shield

22 Swordsmen (General and BSB go here) 242
Full Command
[Det] 9 halberdiers
[Det] 5 archers

6 Knights 123
musician

6 Knights 123
musician

10 Handgunners 105
Marksman, long rifle

17 Greatswords (Captain goes here, 6 wide) 280
Full Command
[Det] 5 archers
[Det] 5 crossbowmen

Great Cannon 100

5 Pistoliers 114
Outrider, repeater pistol
musician

Helstorm Rocket Battery 115

Total 1500

Does this list seem ok to go up against Dwarfs? On paper they sound a tough match for Empire. Against lizards I tend to sit back with main bulk of army while flanking with knights and pistoliers but i'm not sure if he will force me to attack him, which is why i've gone with a cannon and helstorm to try and force him to move forward, as I can't see empire having the hitting power to break the back of a fully ranked up dwarf army.

I've faced my brother's dwarfs many times with my dark elves and he tends to field big blocks of warriors and iron breakers, backed up with 2 bolt throwers, an organ gun plus units of handgunners and a gyrocopter (i hate that thing!).

Thanks for any advice you might have.

w3rm
29-12-2009, 18:21
I dont think your going to be able to make him come to you. He is probably going to be able to outshoot you and then maul you in combat. You will have to take the fight to him and try to pick off his nasty dwarfish chars with the Long Rifle. Use the knights to redirect and them hopefully get a flank. Exspect to get shot up but remeber you have firepower on your side to. Blast his big blocks of warriors and use your cannon for some counter battery fire and then soften up his big blocks. The helstorm generally does great or blows up fantastically. Pistoliers are great harrassment units and can deal a surprising amount of damage to missile troops. Shoot at a small unit of thunderers and you can do about 2-3 wounds which can be very helpful. Hope this helps.

Jind_Singh
29-12-2009, 18:52
I'd have been inclined to include mounted warrior priests and stick them with the knights - your boys hit on 4s so the hatred is powerful!
i wouldnt have taken the rocket battery, id' have gone for hell blaster at 1500 pts - chances of hitting are remote with rocket battery
I would increase the swordsman to 25 at least - protect the last flank bonus for long as you can. i know why you took archers - they act as a screen to protect the parent unit form shooting, but id look for a way to include crossbows in the army - the added range means you'll engage him right away if you get turn 1 or he doesnt move

to heck with pistolliers - they wont do much v's dwarves
outriders - now they will, 24" range, 12 shots hitting on 5s and 3 on 4s at long range!

AngloHellequin
29-12-2009, 22:51
Cheers guys, although from what you said it does sound as though I'll have a hard time beating him.

I was thinking about having a warrior priest but I dont have a mounted model so i was going to have a foot WP in the greatswords. I changed my mind though due to most of his abilities being useless against dwarfs (or at least useless without other wizards in the army). I agree the hatred re-roll is good but not sure if it's worth 40 points, plus one less attack and WS on the character (in comparison to captain). For those points (plus a few points I had left over) I got another knight in each unit.

I don't have any outrider models either but I was hoping to get the pistoliers round the flank or rear to shoot at his units that are all move or fire. I was thinking that even if I had outriders they would also need to move to the flank/rear first anyway (so wasting turns not shooting) otherwise they would be in a straight up shooting match with the dwarfs, and for 20+ pts each would die too easily.

I also chose the helstorm over the helblaster as it is 24" range so I would have to move it forward first before it could fire (I know he will purposefully set up over 24" away). For this reason I agree that crossbows would be good - i've got 10 models so I will try and find a way of adding them in.

Dark_Knight
30-12-2009, 13:09
You don't seem to have a strategy down pat yet. Dwarves don't advance. They counter charge. Your options are:

-Bring the fight to the Dwarves quickly. (This one is good because as they break they only have 12 to 6 inches before they flee off the table.)
-Try to duel with war machines and missile troops. (Not smart as the Dwarves have more dependable war machines)
-A hybrid where you cover one flank with skirmishing huntsmen and a cannon. Maybe some crossbowmen. On the other flank you bring a big block of knights, your greatswords for clean up and make sure you utilize skirmishing archer or free company detachments to protect your infantry from dwarven missile troops.
-You ignore all the rumors and bring a wizard led army with tons of fire and lore of metal spells. Bring no missile troops, charge with cavalry and infantry while making your opponent choose which bound spell item (ring of volans and doomfire ring) to dispel and which fireball to try and dispel. Dwarves are not that great unless you let them do what they like doing. So bring the fight to them quick and be unpredictable.

Jind_Singh
30-12-2009, 18:51
In a tournment (1500) I took

3 Units of Knights (6 strong, 2 had full command with 25pt magic standards)
3 units of pistoliers
3 mounted warrior priests
Steam Tank

V's the dwarf I munched him up - he couldn't deal with my speed - I'd charge with a unit of knights, lose, flee, and then next turn I charge him with 2nd unit of knights, rally the fleeing unit. In effect it was an endless charge of knights! Steam Tank crushed with 6D3 impact hits at str 6, pistolliors destroyed his artiallary.
It was a mascare of the highest proportions!

AngloHellequin
31-12-2009, 09:22
We played last night and the end result was a draw, with the dwarfs having a 100 or so more VPs. I have to admit that I didn't play at all well and in hindsight I would have done a lot of things differently.

The key moments were:

1. He had strollaz rune on a banner and also got first turn, so by my first turn he was 12" away.
2. My knights run down his gyrocopter in turn 1.
3. My helstorm hits twice and kills 6 dwarf warriors and 7 longbeards.
4. My Knights charge his Longbeards, hoping to knock off a rank, run away and rally. Unfortunately they kill none and are run down.
5. Because the dwarfs are so close my archer screens get totally in my way so I block my own charges with swordsmen (with general and BSB) and greatswords (with captain).
6. My cannon shoots at grudgethrower but only causes 2 wounds.
7. His grudgethrower hits my swordsmen who flee off the table.
8. My greatswords finally charge a unit of warriors and destroy them in final turn.
9. My pistoliers kill the bolthrower crew (first with shooting and then charge when only engineer remains) but die horribly against the entrenched grudgethrower.
9. His miners come on turn 2 and kill off cannon and handgunners.

Lessons:
1. Knights are not that good. At least not unsupported (I know I should have realised this but I only saved 2 out of 6 saves all game (at 2+).
2. Entrenched warmachines are untouchable.
3. Helstorm rocket batteries are really fun to use.
4. Empire troops run away, a lot.

In the end all I had left was my greatswords, my helstorm, 4 halberdiers and 4 knights. He had his grudgethrower, half his longbeards and half a unit of warriors and his miners.

It was the use of the strollaz rune that threw me - i couldnt rearrange my line quickly enough and by the time I did my general, BSB and swordsmen were off the table and all I could do was try to salvage a draw, which luckily I did.