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Ambull Tau
29-12-2009, 19:02
In the 40K universe, Demons are a real and powerful threat, and one the weapons mankind has to use against them is their faith. Namely in the Emperor.

So what of the Gue'vesa‎? Humans have powerful souls after all. But they only really have one religion, and that's the Golden Throne.

The Greater Good is a political, social and philosophical tool, but it's creators, the Tau, have small souls and little spiritual power. It was never designed to cope with the threats of the Warp.

Does this mean that some Gue'vesa‎, fearful of their souls, still worship The Golden Throne? (Though not the Imperium). Would the Ethereals understand why Humans would need to do this? Do teams of Water Caste propagandists and Fire Warrior brute squads roam Gue'vesa ghettoes, looking for small shrines of the Emperor?

And does this make the Gue'vesa‎ a ticking time bomb of chaos?

Necanthrope
29-12-2009, 19:26
IIRC The original article that introduced Gue'vessa'la squads had a short background section that made reference to a video showing humans living in the Tau empire. The humans in this film said the Tau didn't care that they wanted to continue to worship The Emperor.

Of course, this film was propaganda. Though I doubt the Tau would want to supress any religion, so long as it did not go against the greater good. Of course the religion of the imperium is a rather xenophobic cult, and I doubt any firm believer would join the Tau empire.

Griffindale
29-12-2009, 19:54
You have to remember that many people may have never had any direct contact with chaos/daemons. On a lot of planets I kind of guess its like here. Noone really listens to the whackjobs on the corners with the signs that say the end is near.

Clockwork-Knight
29-12-2009, 21:34
Believing in the Emperor - Okay, because those humans are just a superstitial lot who believe in space bunnies and mega godzilla, and every tau knows that they don't exist. Harmless.

Continuing the tenets of the Ecclessiarchy - Absolutely not okay, because killing your neighborhood aliens, some deformed and unlucky humans and psykers of any sort is disruptive to their community, so they will harshly punish anybody doing this.
Mind you, all ecclesiastic clergy probably were the first to die when the Tau annexed the planet, or were eliminated by the human population themselves when they joined the Tau Empire.

Tanith Ghost
29-12-2009, 21:56
The resultant lack of faith, and policing for said psykers is really going to hurt the tau later on. But then they can use the crash course in daemonic incursions.:evilgrin:

Clockwork-Knight
29-12-2009, 22:23
Depends. The Tau have good knowledge about psykers, as the very first species they annexed were the completely psychic Nicassar, and they're protecting them from the superstitious humans, and their Kroot allies are also strong psychics. They'll probably just turn to these allies in asking how to deal with those human psychics who let weird warp-aliens pop out from their heads all the time.

The Kroot probably are the most eager to... guard these unfortunate peoples... ;)

Goatboy
29-12-2009, 22:25
The Tau dont worry to much about Chaos. Remember they've already killed Slannesh ;)

nagash66
29-12-2009, 22:33
The Tau dont worry to much about Chaos. Remember they've already killed Slannesh ;)

Whats this now? You mean they think they have killed a chaos god, source plz plz plz i need a good laught.

Are you refering to the WD backround storys of when they first came out cause it is starting to ring a bell.

Clockwork-Knight
29-12-2009, 22:41
The Tau dont worry to much about Chaos. Remember they've already killed Slannesh ;)Ah, yes, good story. Shame that you can't find it on the new homepage of GW.

TheShadowCow
29-12-2009, 22:42
Whats this now? You mean they think they have killed a chaos god, source plz plz plz i need a good laught.

Are you refering to the WD backround storys of when they first came out cause it is starting to ring a bell.

There was a short story in one of the first few WDs following the Tau release - a collection of important/illuminating Tau military events. The union with the Kroot was on there, and there was the Tau's first (or one of the first) encounter with Chaos. They were Chaos Space Marines (and Cultists) largely, but their leader was either a Daemon Prince of Slaanesh or a heavily blessed/mutated follower of Slaanesh. The Tau mistakenly believed that the entiry was claiming to actually *be* Slaanesh (no doubt it made reference to it embodying the power of Slaanesh, or being the will of Slaanesh made manifest etc), and they railgunned the heck out of it.

Thus, the Tau believed that they had destroyed the foul "god" that the Chaos forces worshipped. This is especially amusing, not only because we readers know how the Tau clearly missed the boat on understanding who they were dealing with, but also because it means that they go on to substantially underestimate the nature and scope of the Chaos threat.

It's one of the original "Tau are really, really naive" stories.

Tanith Ghost
29-12-2009, 22:44
Whats this now? You mean they think they have killed a chaos god, source plz plz plz i need a good laught.

Are you refering to the WD backround storys of when they first came out cause it is starting to ring a bell.



Long story short, a tau cadre mops up a slanneshi patrol from a larger force.
They capture one, who tells all on his worship of Slannesh and enjoys his torture session(see? tau use tortue!). The tau go on to defeat the main chaos force, and slay the leader. The shas'o in charge goes on to presume that he has in fact slain Slannesh. Poor, naive, fool.:p




Edit: Curse you Gadget poster! :p

Clockwork-Knight
29-12-2009, 22:49
Actually, if you consider that Slaanesh's power permeates all his followers and daemons and that it is embodiment of deviancy and perversion, then it's actually true. They killed a (really really really really...) small part of Slaanesh. :p

Of course, they don't really know that there are four chaos gods, and see these warp beings as only strange hostile aliens like the Tyranids or the Orks. Just shoot it.

Ambull Tau
29-12-2009, 23:31
Getting back to the topic:


Continuing the tenets of the Ecclessiarchy - Absolutely not okay, because killing your neighborhood aliens, some deformed and unlucky humans and psykers of any sort is disruptive to their community,

Despite being rather set in our ways, we humans are also an adaptable bunch.

So you've got this strong tradition of worshipping the Golden Throne in a society where some of it's key tenants are right out.

The redemptionists, of course, are going to get exterminated pretty swiftly, but the less extreme ones? Some will go underground and run the resistance, and others will adapt the faith to suit the community.

(After all, rooting out dangerous Pyskers and mutants helps the greater good.)

It's more likely to adjust and change than completely go away. Now this means it's ripe for infiltration by a Chaos Cult....

Shinzui
29-12-2009, 23:39
In the 40K universe, Demons are a real and powerful threat, and one the weapons mankind has to use against them is their faith. Namely in the Emperor.

Well most humans wouldn't know that and how much help has the Emperor really given them? his ability to influence events are as much myth as anything else. Tarot cards are a good example. There could be a technical reason how they work or they really could be messages from the emperor.

That being said, your average Joe in the 40k world isn't lucky like you and doesn't have the 40k rulebook + codex. He probably has a low education level and a large amount of religious doctrine taught from birth.

Unfortunately this religious angle is downplayed in the background. Those who act atheist commonly downplay the imperial religion and most of the time those that do believe are portrayed as insane. When in reality those who aren't deep in the Imperial faith should be the minority.


Does this mean that some Gue'vesa‎, fearful of their souls, still worship The Golden Throne? (Though not the Imperium). Would the Ethereals understand why Humans would need to do this? Do teams of Water Caste propagandists and Fire Warrior brute squads roam Gue'vesa ghettoes, looking for small shrines of the Emperor?

The Tau probably wouldn't understand but as shown in many places Tau don't like to oppress like some in the 40k community try to portray. They try to show by example a better way.

Demonic incursions are always a potential problem even without rogue psykers. Not every rogue psyker turns into the demon portal. Demonic incursions are really rare, even the demon codex says so but usually when they do happen they're doom for anyone caught in it and any fighting is to buy time or wasted effort.

That being said How I see it. Most populations usually police themselves of psykers, there's not a inquisitor on every world. Many times in novels humans can tell a psyker. Something unnatural in how they behave. This could causes them to be abused or exiled from their community as a witch in more then just a word. This fear of the natural especially coupled with religious dogma could easily be turned into a 40k witchhunt if strange things start happening.

Hmm this could be a interesting story. A Gue'vesa colony where strange things start happening as a precursor to the demonic invasion and the human population start burning people as witches while the Tau race against time trying to investigate.

Clockwork-Knight
29-12-2009, 23:40
Most chaos cults are formed because people are desperate, and want to leash out against the imperial government. So far, all the human worlds the Tau have subjugated have rather quite good life standarts, and the new tau administration improves life quality in most cases by a little bit.
It is yet to see how the Tau would do when they get a hive world in their posession, where chaos cults are mostly formed because of the dreadful living condition there. But I seriously doubt that the Tau could overcome the planetary and space defenses of any hive world of the Imperium.

Also, the tau name for humans is Gue'la (like Gorilla), not Gue'vesa (which means human helpers). :p

DetriusXii
30-12-2009, 00:23
A related question: Suppose the world becomes a daemon world that the gue'vesa and tau coexist on. Are tau citizens in that much danger? Each tau has a small soul that daemons have a hard time detecting. This could serve as a defensive measure where the daemons become functionally blind when facing off against the tau. So even if a rogue psyker turned into a demon portal, would this really be a devastating event to the tau?

Clockwork-Knight
30-12-2009, 00:27
Depends on how long the daemons can exist, how strong the local military is, and how many of the local gue'la have been devoured already.

Ambull Tau
30-12-2009, 01:23
My understanding of the semantics is Human subject of the Tau Empire are Gue'vesa, (Helpers, as you say), and all humans are gue'la, which is a more general and probably a slight to Gue'vesa.

Anyway: Decadence and free time can also lead to Chaos. The Eldar where at the height of their powers before the fall, after all.

On the other hand, the Tau Empire has an entire race of pyskers. A human who suddenly starts hearing voices might be able to get some therapy from the Niccasar. (Let's face it, the Tau are likely to have a version of the NHS.)

One of the problems with the Imperial Cult is it doesn't really draw a difference between a Demon and Xenos. If it's funny looking, it's evil.

Now, this doesn't work in the Tau Empire, but given that 40K humans seem inclined to worship things (and the Greater Good is perhaps not something you worship), what I suspect you'll get is some extremely moderate, heretic off-shoot of the Imperial Cult. Cure the Mutant, Train the Psyker, Kill the Xenos who can't be redeemed by the Greater Good?

The Emperor then becomes the god of being uniquely human, which comes with learning the old language of Gothic and part of your human 'roots'.

Alternately, it's the terrifying old religion. Yes, sure, the Gue'vesa act all nice, but they have these freaky, underground get togethers which are all about the hate.

Clockwork-Knight
30-12-2009, 01:41
Gue'vesa is only applied to human soldiers fighting for the Tau. Humans paying their taxes to their new tau overlords and minding their own business are not gue'vesa, as they don't help, they're only a trophy for the Tau to show around that they've once again won and more humans are turning to their cause.
"See, see, your citizens like uz moar than yuz, stupd impr1a1z, we pwnzor hard!!1ll."
Stuff like that.

After all, life doesn't really change that much on the human worlds if you have to say hail Tau instead of hail Throne. Human peasants will stay human peasants. Now, if they were actively fighting for the Greater Good, that would be swell for the blue-grey-aliens...

Ambull Tau
31-12-2009, 01:15
No. Gue'vesa'la / Gue'vesa'ui is the name for Gue'vesa troopers. The meaning 'Human Helper' implies 'Ally' and distinguishes them from those other humans.



Unfortunately this religious angle is downplayed in the background. .

Really? From the art alone, the Imperial Cult looks like a massive part of life in the Imperium.

I doubt atheism is anything like it is in the real world.

Clockwork-Knight
31-12-2009, 05:49
No. Gue'vesa'la / Gue'vesa'ui is the name for Gue'vesa troopers. The meaning 'Human Helper' implies 'Ally' and distinguishes them from those other humans.What is your source that gue'vesa means ALL humans in the Tau Empire, and not just the soldiers?

Brother Siccarius
31-12-2009, 06:51
Depends. The Tau have good knowledge about psykers, as the very first species they annexed were the completely psychic Nicassar, and they're protecting them from the superstitious humans, and their Kroot allies are also strong psychics. They'll probably just turn to these allies in asking how to deal with those human psychics who let weird warp-aliens pop out from their heads all the time.

The Kroot probably are the most eager to... guard these unfortunate peoples... ;)

More than likely, they've tried to study psykers to find out how they do what they do.


In the 40K universe, Demons are a real and powerful threat, and one the weapons mankind has to use against them is their faith. Namely in the Emperor.

So what of the Gue'vesa‎? Humans have powerful souls after all. But they only really have one religion, and that's the Golden Throne.

There's no solid proof that either faith in the Emperor or faith at all has any real detterence capabilities on demons or chaos. While there are a lot of items that claim that the faith in the emperor is what causes them to be bane to demons, they also fail to give credence to the fact that these weapons are generally psychic based or have some special treatments to them.

Somewhat similar to the beliefs of the Adeptus mechanicus. I remember reading the activation rituals of a chainsword that included oiling and prayer with the last action to activate it being pressing the button labeled "on".

What is your source that gue'vesa means ALL humans in the Tau Empire, and not just the soldiers?

I believe it was mentioned in the first tau book in the language section. Don't have it in front of me though to check.