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Shious
29-12-2009, 20:32
Hi. This is my first army list created since joining here. The reasoning behind the list is at the bottom of the post.

Archmage, 310 pts
Lvl 4, Silver Wand, Ring of Fury

Mage, 197 pts
Lvl 2, Seerstaff, Dispel Scroll, Steed
Noble, 216 pts (I have not given him dragon armour since I'm short on points, and I don't suspect anyone targeting fire at dragon princes anyway)
BSB, Lance, HA, Barded Steed, Shield, Battle Banner

10 Archers, 110 pts
10 Lothern Sea Guard, 135 pts
Shields, Musician

18 White Lions, 338 pts
Standard Bearer, Musician, Banner of Sorcery
6 Silver Helms, 146 pts
Shields, Musician
5 Dragon Princes, 150 pts
Lion Chariot, 140 pts
12 Sword Masters, 207 pts
Standard Bearer, Banner of Ellyrion

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers, 200 pts
2 Great Eagles, 100 pts

The 2 mages with Banner of Sorcery should give me a medium-heavy magic phase. The Silver Wand and Seerstaff pretty much guarantees me I get what spells I want.

The BSB goes with Dragon Princes, Archmage goes with LSG/White Lions, and the Mage (lvl 2) goes with Silver Helms or by himself.

Archers are compulsory, since I don't think spearmen fit into the list. I have included a small unit of LSG, mainly because I have the old school models, which are the best HE models imo, but also so they can protect my RBT's etc.

White Lions and Swordmasters (Banner of Ellyrion) should give me some quite mobile hardhitting infantry, assisted by the Lion Chariot.

This, together with the Dragon Princes should give my enemy 4 hardhitting targets. The fast Silver Helms are hard to take down without concentrated magic/shooting, and should threaten flanks, characters, small units or the array of shooting troops. They're arguably not as hardhitting as Dragon Princes, but they're more survivable and are often overlooked (plus the old models look badass ;)).

The rare choices are fairly standard. Using 2 Great Eagles since I don't have any skirmishers/fast cav.

Comments?

Brady
29-12-2009, 22:34
i would take the shields of the LSG and with the ten points spare upgrade the other archers to LSG.otherwise it looks pretty solid

Foxbat
30-12-2009, 15:58
Right off the bat, I would suggest that you double check the point cost of your Mage, it appears to be high to me. I believe that once you do this, you will find that you can give the BSB Dragon Armour.

As for the list, I am not sure about a few components.

First, I don’t see the value in the LSG over 10 Archers. Your Great Eagles and Silver Helms should be running interference for the RBT/Archer missile base anyway.

Second, I am not sure why you need a 6 model unit of Silver Helms. A 5 model unit would be just as effective. I could understand the extra model if it increased the number of wounds needed to before a panic test, but you don’t even get this advantage. If you drop the LSG’s musician (or the entire unit for that matter) you could then replace the Silver Helm unit with a 5 model unit of DPs without a musician. This unit would be able to complete the same tasks as the Silver Helms and could still be a real combat threat.

Third. Your psychology defences are weak and is solely dependent on unmodified Ld scores. Given the number of Fear/Terror causing units out there now, you really need to invest more points here. Things to consider include the Lion Standard, Standard of Balance, Gem of Courage, and the Dragonhorn.

Fourth. You need to consider adding champions to the Special infantry units so that you can efficiently add 25 pt and lower magic items.

Fifth, the SM unit is too small for a banner. General wisdom on these guys is dual units of 7 without any command or 14+ models with Standard Bearer, Standard of Balance, and Champ with Talisman of Loec.

Sixth. If you are going to take an Archmage, you should look to fully utilize his magic allotment. Otherwise, you may be better served going with a medium magic phase of dual Mages and re-direct the saved points to combat units.

Lastly, I am not a big fan of the Banner of Sorcery being on a unit of WL. While I have used this in the past, I have found that it’s better to use a 13 to 15 model unit of Phoenix Guard. While they are not as hard hitting as the WL or SM, they will stick around long enough to counter charge with the Lion Chariot.

Shious
30-12-2009, 18:40
Oops, I forgot to add a steed to my mage.

I hope to test out if LSG are worth the points over normal Archers. They potentially have 10 attacks or a 4+ save in combat.
This should at least hinder most weak stuff from totally removing my 420 points of shooting in 1 round (2 units of archers and 2 RBT).

I guess I could remove 1 SH, the musician and the musician from LSG, and instead use the points on a champion with the Amulet of Light for the Dragon Princes. I was also a bit worried about not having any magical attacks before.

I don't see where I should get the points for defense vs. Fear/Terror, adding champions and more magic items on the Archmage. For this, I would have to remove a whole unit.

What items do you suggest I add on the Archmage? He already costs 310 pts, and I don't see any items being of any use on him except Guardian Phoenix. Imo this is quite a measly defense, and he will probably end up dead with or without it if he gets into trouble. I could get more dispel scrolls, but I really despise having much more than 1.

I don't think 2 lvl 2's work very well with HE. I'm not able to cast the good spells, and I don't think spending around 400 points for light magic support (7-9PD) is worth it.

I don't think Phoenix Guard has a place in this army, as they're way too static and don't pose a threat at all. With the White Lions' ability to kill enemy models before they strike them back and being stubborn, I think they will hold up for almost as long in combat - but they pose a larger threat.

You're probably right about splitting up the Swordmasters. But still, I'm not sure about a unit of 7 T3 AS5+ guys costing 105 pts. Only 2 casualties and there's a panic test. Having a unit of 12 I feel more confident about giving them a banner, which is used to give them mobility/added protection vs shooting. I hope this will give me a chance to have at least 6/7 models in btb (depending on formation) when they hit combat.

How do units of 7 Swordmasters usually fare in a general, but friendly tournament environment? I suspect they will be rendered useless without much effort in a turn or two by most armies. Is this true?

Thanks for the suggestions.

Foxbat
30-12-2009, 20:07
Oops, I forgot to add a steed to my mage. I would probably drop the steed for the mage as I prefer having the 360 degree Arc of Sight as compared to the 90 degree front arc on a steed.


I guess I could remove 1 SH, the musician and the musician from LSG, and instead use the points on a champion with the Amulet of Light for the Dragon Princes. I was also a bit worried about not having any magical attacks before. Historically, I too would have added the Amulet of Light to the DPs, but as recently pointed out by a friend; most ethereal units tend to hide out in woods to stay out of your magic users LOS. His recommendation was to place the AoL on your WL unit champion. The other benefit here is that this approach is cheaper.


I don't see where I should get the points for defense vs. Fear/Terror, adding champions and more magic items on the Archmage. For this, I would have to remove a whole unit.

What items do you suggest I add on the Archmage? He already costs 310 pts, and I don't see any items being of any use on him except Guardian Phoenix. Imo this is quite a measly defense, and he will probably end up dead with or without it if he gets into trouble. I could get more dispel scrolls, but I really despise having much more than 1. These two problems are actually intertwined with each other. You have about 125 pts invested in your magic phase as compared to a dual 2nd level set-up. What you need to decide is whether or not the extra magic will offset the psychology issues. If you think this is the case, then you need to add items to the Archmage that will support how you envision he will operate. For example, if you expect the Archmage to be hanging out in the woods with the WL, you could add the Reaver Bow. If he will be marching with his unit most of the time, then look at Loremasterís Cloak or the Sacred Incense.


How do units of 7 Swordmasters usually fare in a general, but friendly tournament environment? I suspect they will be rendered useless without much effort in a turn or two by most armies. Is this true? I fall into the later group and prefer the larger SM unit, Standard of Balance, and ToL. However, there are many players that swear by the 2 x 7 model approach. Basically you will need to decide which camp youíre in.