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Tambarskjelve
31-12-2009, 11:21
In a game against VC I had my ASF Black Guards being charged by 5 Blood knights and a vampire. The BG killed two BK and wounded the vampire. The vampire then killed 3 BG.

The vampire had a sword that made him able to cast the raise dead spell on his unit when he caused a wound. He therefore raised up the two BK and got back his lost wound.

The question that arose was wether or not the raised BK were able to fight in the same CC round. We ruled that they could not, but we weren't sure if we were playing it right. Possibly they would be able to fight, but not with any charge bonuses.

Did we do it correctly, or were they supposed to fight as well?

danny-d-b
31-12-2009, 12:14
well there are three swords it could of been- either way your opponunt is 'cheating'

either its called the tomb blade which does bring back modles in the combat phase, but only if he is in a unit of skeletons warriors-

or he is using the blooddrinker- though that only heals wounds on the vamp not the unit

lastly he could be using Manfred Von castine- his blade gives you a power dice for each kill, not a new model

I'd ask to see what sword he is using

Tambarskjelve
31-12-2009, 12:51
Probably the blooddrinker. I'll ask to see in his armybook next time. It was pretty annoying to kill 200pts of bloodknights in the game, only to see them pop back up again. :P

But if he had that sword in a unit of skeletons instead, how would it work out, would the raised skeletons be allowed to strike?

danny-d-b
31-12-2009, 13:20
Probably the blooddrinker. I'll ask to see in his armybook next time. It was pretty annoying to kill 200pts of bloodknights in the game, only to see them pop back up again. :P

But if he had that sword in a unit of skeletons instead, how would it work out, would the raised skeletons be allowed to strike?

I don't know

PeG
31-12-2009, 13:36
Rules says that they are treated as if raised with IoN. As I have been told the IoN rule is that raised models may attack but does not receive for example charging bonuses. So if the unit has not already attacked the new skellies gets to attack as well.

dOOHICKY
31-12-2009, 14:13
For raising the blood Knights would they not count as two models per BK since they are Unit Strength 2 per model?

Redvampire7
31-12-2009, 14:27
A VC Lord in a unit of Bloodknights is 9/10 times using the bloodrinker. He can heal wounds either to himself or the unit he is in. For each wound the vampire inflicts one Bloodknight is resurrected as per the IoN rules. The resurrected models DO fight in the combat phase but do not gain any charging bonuses. So yes it is a very powerful combo.

The Red Scourge
31-12-2009, 14:29
or he is using the blooddrinker- though that only heals wounds on the vamp not the unit

Read the rules before you accuse people of cheating :rolleyes:

The Blood Drinker will indeed raise the dead knights per the rules for invocation ie. no charge bonuses. And yes, this is rather annoying :p

danny-d-b
31-12-2009, 14:36
Read the rules before you accuse people of cheating :rolleyes:

The Blood Drinker will indeed raise the dead knights per the rules for invocation ie. no charge bonuses. And yes, this is rather annoying :p

woops-missed the word unit out!!

Tambarskjelve
02-01-2010, 08:16
Damn, then I AM screwed... :p

How many points is that thing? It was only a vampire hero though, so I almost killed him, but still...

oh well, put a hero in there with GW and I will take him out...

BigbyWolf
02-01-2010, 08:58
Damn, then I AM screwed... :p

How many points is that thing? It was only a vampire hero though, so I almost killed him, but still...

oh well, put a hero in there with GW and I will take him out...

I believe posting exact points on here is frowned upon, but let's just say the Blooddrinker is quite reasonable for what it does, even more so when in a unit of Knights.

Tambarskjelve
02-01-2010, 10:50
I believe posting exact points on here is frowned upon, but let's just say the Blooddrinker is quite reasonable for what it does, even more so when in a unit of Knights.

Yeah, what I really wanted to know was if a vampire hero would be able to have anything else, but I'll just go and have a look in the book at GW or borrow his.
In a unit of knights that weapon is worth it's points in..eh...gold?

danny-d-b
02-01-2010, 11:06
Damn, then I AM screwed... :p

How many points is that thing? It was only a vampire hero though, so I almost killed him, but still...

oh well, put a hero in there with GW and I will take him out...

its the same a 5 skellys?

BigbyWolf
02-01-2010, 11:20
its the same a 5 skellys?

That's the one...so not much room left for any other items if your allowance is 50 points...but the hero probably has dreadknight + inf. hatred as well.

It gets even worse on a Red Fury/ Inf. Hatred/ Dreadknight Lord...

danny-d-b
02-01-2010, 11:22
That's the one...so not much room left for any other items...but the hero probably has dreadknight + inf. hatred as well.

yep that killer combo!

either that or red fury?

BigbyWolf
02-01-2010, 11:37
yep that killer combo!

either that or red fury?

Hehe...my ninja-edit covered that one!

Still, It's not as bad as Dreadknight/ Red Fury/ Dread Lance/ Beguile combo...Auto-hitting attacks, and each wound caused gives an extra attack, with rerolls to wound unless the opponent passes a Ld test on -3...OP- if your opponent ever pulls out that combo, you have my permission, as a VC player, to slap him!

Razakel
02-01-2010, 12:18
Hehe...my ninja-edit covered that one!

Still, It's not as bad as Dreadknight/ Red Fury/ Dread Lance/ Beguile combo...Auto-hitting attacks, and each wound caused gives an extra attack, with rerolls to wound unless the opponent passes a Ld test on -3...OP- if your opponent ever pulls out that combo, you have my permission, as a VC player, to slap him!

Good God, remind me to Cannonball all Vampire characters long before they reach combat.

BigbyWolf
02-01-2010, 15:36
Good God, remind me to Cannonball all Vampire characters long before they reach combat.

Yeah, even though Beguile only works on one model in B2B it is a very nasty combo. When I was starting out with VC I used that technique with the reasoning "Well, it looks good on paper, but things don't always work out like that..." And he went on to mince his way though half an army! After that I made the vow that he'd only make an appearance if I took VCs to an uber competitive tourny.

danny-d-b
02-01-2010, 17:32
Hehe...my ninja-edit covered that one!

Still, It's not as bad as Dreadknight/ Red Fury/ Dread Lance/ Beguile combo...Auto-hitting attacks, and each wound caused gives an extra attack, with rerolls to wound unless the opponent passes a Ld test on -3...OP- if your opponent ever pulls out that combo, you have my permission, as a VC player, to slap him!

thanks farther nurgle for burbus!

BigbyWolf
02-01-2010, 18:35
thanks farther nurgle for burbus!

Damn over-powered WoC! My poor helpless VCs don't stand a chance! :angel:

But seriously, Tambarskjelve- what are you running in your list, if we know we might be able to suggest options now how to deal with the problem, obvious suggestion being a few units of Harpies to lead the unit a merry dance around the board.