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View Full Version : How does the tricksy trinket work against units?



ishoog
31-12-2009, 16:24
I've run into a bit of an interesting situation while playing a battle with my orcs and goblins against high elves when using the tricksy trinket and am wondering if anyone else has encountered this.

We ended up in a situation where my night goblins with a hero carrying the tricksy trinket were charged by a unit of phoenix guard. Luckily for me, the elves only managed to kill one gobbo, but we ran into a bit of confusion when it came time for me to strike back.

The front ranks of the units lined up like below, where p is a pheonix guard, d is the dead model, o is a rank and file guy and x is the hero with the trinket.

doxoo
ppppp

In this situation, the middle three pheonix guard can't take their ward save, so we decided to roll things separately, I resolved the attacks from the hero first, rolling for each model in base contact separately. The hero killed 2 elves and we ended up with the following.

doxoo
pddpp

In this case we decided that attacks from the goblin on the left would benefit from a ward save and that I would have to roll the attacks from the goblins on the right one at a time until the remaining elf in contact with the hero was killed.

The other way we could have interpreted, which would have probably been a little cheesier, would be to say that models would step forward to fill in the gap created by the killed elves, so all of my night goblins could have attacked models that couldn't get a ward save.

Has anyone run into this or have any thoughts on which interpretation would be more correct?

Milgram
31-12-2009, 16:49
ok, imagine a goblin hero on chariot with the tricksy trinket charging together with a giant and a unit of savage orks into a unit of bloodletters. now you get a discussion. :)

1) the goblin on chariot + crew + wolves can kill as many bloodletters as he wants without ward save, as they 'fill the gap' and lose their ward save.

2) one of the savage orcs can direct his attacks on the blood letters without ward save. I think the discussion was not solved on whether he then only can kill one bloodletter or as many as he has attacks.

3) some bloodletters can direct their attacks onto the savage orc without ward save - same thing as with 2)

4) the impact hits and some of the attacks of the giant are handled 'as shooting'. now you have there 4 bloodletters without ward save and between 4 and 16 bloodletters with ward save. have fun getting a good answer to this covering RAW. :)

Dutch_Digger
31-12-2009, 16:58
now im not sure on this but, i believe there was some ruling about base-to-base stuff (like the Tricksy)a while ago, that it only affects the models that are in contact at start of the combat round,
if thats true you can just focus the ward negation on the 3 models you mentioned and the rest would be unaffected.

i would suggest to find a way both of you like, or just roll the dice on it :p

Adran
04-01-2010, 10:19
Ok, not an exact interpritation of the rules in the book, but in the interest of speed I would do the following.
You choose at the start of the combat if you are attacking ward save pheonix guard, or non ward save pheonix guard (and how many attacks on each). If you kill more non ward save pheonix guard than there are, then you only do as many wounds as non ward save pheonix guard (3 in your example).

The rules state you can target individual rank and file troops if you wish, but suplus wounds don't carry over.
So in very complicated things like Milgrims example, I'd probably force them to choose the exact assigning very carefully.

Giants like shooting attacks, I'd go with on ward saved members.
I would suggets the chariot should also go on ward saved members, but could put up a spirited defense for none of them to get wards saves from chariot impact hits.

T10
04-01-2010, 13:11
In this case we decided that...

Probably the right decision.You need to come to an agreement with your opponent as to how the situation is resolved.

The rules do not specifically deal with this sort of situation: that rank-and-file models of the same type have different statistics (in this case a ward save or no ward save). So anything you and your opponent can agree to is the right solution.

-T10