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Rhamiel
31-12-2009, 17:42
Hi soon i will be collecting a nice army of Warriors of Chaos. My mate is also collecting a fantasy army and he is getting Ogre Kingdoms.

now my question to you is how with Warriors of Chaos can i take on the Ogre's? becuase by the sound of it ogres can dish out plenty of attacks, plus their bull charge and at that point i am not getting any attacks back because all my front guys have been killed.

so this is a real worry. my general plan for my WoC army (this can be changed) is to have a solid core of 3 warrior units, supported by a couple of Maruder Horsemen units. and maybe some chaos knights etc. but with 2 sorcerors and an exhalted hero.

of course this can change, but i still want the army to be able to take on all comers (it's just i will proberbly be facing Orges more than anything)

so if you guys have any tips for me i will gladly listen.

thanks a lot

Rhamiel

ps. do bare in mind i will be starting this army from scratch

redshylock
31-12-2009, 20:47
With high WS high armour save and mark of nurgle, Ogre have little chance wiping out the whole front rank.

Nathangonmad
31-12-2009, 22:55
Mark of Nurgle Knights can and will wipe the floor with his entire army.

Taishar
31-12-2009, 23:24
You put out an army. You win. =D


Cheers

Rosstifer
01-01-2010, 00:32
Sorry to your friend but what the other guys have said is true. basically any WoC List will stand a very good chance against even the nastiest Ogre List ( wich isn't very nasty at all...) Not that this should dissuade your friend, as Ogres are cool and characterful, with some nice models. He'll just have to get used to losing often.

hfb
01-01-2010, 02:11
Flank charge the ogre units with knights or other fast units to deal with them 1 or 2 at a time.

I haven't seen many armies that WoC haven't been able to handle.

Penitent Engine
01-01-2010, 07:32
Sneeze at them?
Basically, if you can roll up a flank of the Ogre army with cavalry, chariots (preferably cavalry) then it's a domino effect from there on in.
Good luck!
P.S. Good on your mate for collecting Ogres! They have some truly awesome models and background. And you can still win consistently with them, you just have to be very, very good.

Lowmans
01-01-2010, 22:12
If you play infantry blocks as you've said and not too many knights you'll have some good games, I think.

Maybe try switching armies now and again to liven things up, especially if it does seem onesided.

Hope you both have a great time! :)

skank
02-01-2010, 09:39
Don't take mark of nurgle, it's harsh on the poor old ogres, they're reduced to hitting your warriors and khights on 5s.
Watch out for tenderiser, you'll have to challenge and will get pasted (loads of CR for ogres)

danny-d-b
02-01-2010, 11:29
Don't take mark of nurgle, it's harsh on the poor old ogres, they're reduced to hitting your warriors and khights on 5s.
Watch out for tenderiser, you'll have to challenge and will get pasted (loads of CR for ogres)

yep but then your just paste the oger 1st?

to need ogers you need heavy cavalry and SCR

and what to warriors have- marrauders for SCR and Great heavy cavalry
so all you do is take some big blocks of marrauders with MON and some knights, hold the oger charge on your marrauders (very easy with MON, just move towards them just as they get in to charge range hopeing to get within 6in so they lose there bull charge) then flank with your knights and go choppy choppy!

skank
02-01-2010, 12:04
yep but then your just paste the oger 1st?

The Ogre weilding the tenderiser will generally be a tyrant (ie hard b*rstard) and nothing will stand a chance apart from a chaos lord, even then, don't like his chances... dragon would help.

But yeah, my ogres hate SCR. Though i'd recommend Mark of slannesh rather than nurgle on marauder blocks to ignore the fear. Mark of nurgle on marauders would not effect regular ogres.

seraphius
02-01-2010, 12:12
well... i am standing on the other side of the fence then.. never lost a single game to woc.. no matter the mark i am still 6-0.

But that comes from using not only brute force mind you, tactics and magic items combos.

I use alot of magic in my ogre army (3 butchers) and always field items that will give skaven/chaos armys - 4 on ld tests, and from there i just spam the braingobbler spell (take a panic test, fail and you run) that wins me alot of games.

So everything is depending on: 1, your oppo. 2, how many units he/she has that are immune to psych(as ogres cause fear and you don`t take panic tests if youre immune to psych)

With your mate, you will most likely wipe the floor though, OK takes a lot of getting used to.

Razakel
02-01-2010, 12:55
One strong unit on the Ogre's flank and you'll roll his line up like a carpet. He literally will not stand a chance in hell.

As noted above he can design an army specifically to fight you, but if you have a lot of units with the Mark of Khorne / Slaanesh it will rarely matter.

SevenSins
02-01-2010, 17:37
As seraphius said ogres can be hard, but they are a less forgiving army than most as they rely mainly on ActiveCR.
Your friend needs to learn baiting and fleeing as well as setting up flank charges. With ogres maneveuers count more than bull charges ;)

Your knights are tough as bricks, but lots of high strength attacks will hurt them.

as for "auto-pasting" and "flanking and rolling them up" sure that'll work if all he does is rush straight at you (that is playing with the brain of an ogre, not the gut.... errr)

Rhamiel
02-01-2010, 18:19
ok thanks a lot for all the tips. there all really helpful. so far this is what i'm getting from all of you:
1) Use armour
2) Use Knights
3) Watch out for characters
4) Marauders to soke up wounds

anything else?

Rhamiel

ps. what does SCR mean?

Malice&Mizery
02-01-2010, 18:23
SCR = Static Combat Relsolution. You get it from having ranks, a banner and maybe if you outnumber the other unit :)

skank
02-01-2010, 20:02
Hmmm, your adverage Ogre player will play MSU (multiple small units) so won't have any SCR to speak of, he will have to generate CR (combat resolution) through kills. He must try to negate your SCR by flanking you or he stands little chance.

Rhamiel
03-01-2010, 11:02
ok thanks i will look out for flank charges. good tip

thanks a lot

Rhamiel

Jack of Blades
03-01-2010, 17:03
You might want to take a Chaos Lord instead of an Exalted Champion. The reason being that with the Hellfire Sword, not only does he give a rat's ass about Trollguts (a spell giving regeneration and magic resistance) but he also does D3+1 wounds which means that he will on average kill an Ogre per wound and will always take at least 2 wounds away. You don't need to give him anything but the Hellfire Sword and a mount, if you're fine with marking him with Slaanesh you can put him on a Steed of Slaanesh and he'll be immune to fear while able to take on units of Ogres on his own as well. A normal steed (non-barded, you won't need barding) is fine but you lose the speed and if you put him on a Disc of Tzeentch you're no longer immune to fear. Just watch out for Gnoblar tarpits.

Chaos Spawn are very useful against any units in his army not equipped with strength-boosting weapons. They can be used either to guard against his flank charges or set up your own, the former being the job I would put them to use in. Lone trolls are more reliable in doing this since they don't have random movement, but are not unbreakable.

I wouldn't recommend Chaos Knights against Ogres because your Marauder Horsemen will be hitting his Bulls and Ironguts on 3s too and come with flails, which at 15 points each compared to 40 for a Chaos Knight means that you can have a lot more Horsemen that hit equally hard.

Overall, you have plenty of good choices against him that he can do little about.

Urgat
03-01-2010, 22:39
Honestly, if you're both new to WFB, don't try to make an army that will "paste" ogres. They're a very difficult and unforgiving army to play. It's easy to say that they can win consistently, but that's only true if you're both a good player with a good grasp of the tactics of the game. Even with a vanilla WoC army, as new players, you already have a big edge over your friend. If he gets steamrolled every game, he might just get frustrated and give up altogether.

skank
04-01-2010, 00:28
Tis true, you already have the edge. Just take the models you like and the magic items you like the fluff of.
You won't learn to play the game better if you just steamroller him every time.

Urgat
04-01-2010, 00:53
Well, I do want to add something in regard to ogres, though. I started them about the day they were released around here, and, well, you are in about the same situation. They have a very formidable "surprise" power. The first time my opponents faced them, they all got crushed. Ogres in other armies (especially for those who've played warhammer since 5th ed) are elite units, probably not the best ones, but they got that status. When you face them for the first time, you ponder a lot, wonder if your unit is cut for the fight, etc etc. They're very impressive. My first few games were trully crushing victories. But the moment you figure out they're not all that much, how easy it is to cull the bull charge, and how vulnerable they are to any kind of attack (ranged or not), well, the balance tips the other way, and it tips hard. So, it's possible that the first few games you'll play with your CW will be nasty. But, from my own experience, it won't last. At all :p

final note: though I love my ogres, I should probably point out that I don't play them that much (but I happen to play them against chaos warriors most of the time), because they don't really play how I want to play ogres ( like a ... a... a brutish brute :p), and I probably suck with them, so take everything I said with a bit of salt. Your friend might turn out to handle them awesomely, but wait for that to happen first, imho.
final note two: ogres have that nasty magic item, the jade statue or something, that nerfs the chaos armies Ld hard. Yeah I know it's only my view on WFB gameplay, but I don't think that kind of items should be used >> Sure, I might win a lot more if I used it, but it seems so unfair... Maybe ask your friend not to use it, unless he really can't manage at the begining?

Havock
04-01-2010, 06:01
if you put him on a Disc of Tzeentch you're no longer immune to fear.

The disc causes fear and thus makes you immune to it.

Chaos Spawn are very useful against any units in his army not equipped with strength-boosting weapons. They can be used either to guard against his flank charges or set up your own, the former being the job I would put them to use in. Lone trolls are more reliable in doing this since they don't have random movement, but are not unbreakable.


I wouldn't recommend Chaos Knights against Ogres because your Marauder Horsemen will be hitting his Bulls and Ironguts on 3s too and come with flails, which at 15 points each compared to 40 for a Chaos Knight means that you can have a lot more Horsemen that hit equally hard.

What the hell? If you want to kick teeth in, you can reccommend chaos knights for almost... Anything.
Horsemen are good but won't survive the attacks made against them. Khornate horsemen with flails will break ranked light infantry though. See Gnoblar 'tarpits'.

Rhamiel
04-01-2010, 09:25
ok is it ok if i post my first draught list at 1500 points? as i would like to see your opinion on it. (thats the reason i can't take a lord choice yet)
Heroes:
Exalted Hero w/ Shield, Mark of Khorne, Chaos Runesword

Sorcerer w/ Level 2, Mark of Nurgle, Dispel Scroll, Power Familiar

Core:
14 Chaos Warriors w/ Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons, Full Command

14 Chaos Warriors w/ Mark of Nurgle, Shields, Full Command

20 Marauders w/ Mark of Nurgle, Light Armour, Shields, Full Command

5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Flails, Light Armour

5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Flails, Light Armour

Special:
5 Chaos Knights w/ Mark of Khorne

well what do you think? the idea of that army is each hero goes into his makrs warriors. the deplyoment end up like this: The marauders take centre field, with their numbers and armour should be able to soke up hits.
The 2 units of warriors flank them as armoured fighters, which should be able to ruin any unit of ogres.
The 2 horsemen units are covering the flanks, and trying to prevent flank charges, but they are equpied to deal with combat they may not be able to take wounds but can dish them out with the flails.
And finally the knights i always deploy last, and are deplyed where they are going to be able to do the most damage, and hopefully run up the whole of the ogres army.

so would that work. it doesn't have to ruin him it just has to stand a chance, but also stand a chance against other armies.


the other option for my army is to by the battalion (which is preety close to that army anyway, i just have to buy some more warriors and my 2 heroes) and work from that list.

so any more tips are always welcomed.

Rhamiel
ps. i think (because i don't want to ruin him and i want an army i like) i will be getting a Khorne/Nurgle army (as those gods don't "hate" each other) as it's quite competative.

Havock
04-01-2010, 11:12
Consider giving your exalted hero a mark of Nurgle and putting him on a horse, right now he has a 3+ save in combat, that's a bit low. You could unmark those marauders, it's a rather expensive upgrade that only really works vs shooting on that unit.

Rhamiel
05-01-2010, 07:53
ok thanks for the advice. i agree with the mark on the marauders, and consdiering the ogres don't shoot a lot it is a bit pointless. i might therfore give them mark of slaanesh to make sure they don't run away (but only if ogres cause fear or something like that?).

and the reason i don't want to give me exalted hero a horse because my plan is to have a solid unit flanked by 2 warrior units each with a hero.
and in combat my exalted hero has a 2+ save (4+ for armour, and shield).
also iwant my exalted hero to have mark of khorne so he can dish out the attacks, he has a high enough WS.

i will see what i can get by removing the mark on the marauders (and maybe give them mark of slaanesh).

Rhamiel

Havock
05-01-2010, 10:19
MoS is fairly nice on the marauders, but the same goes for warriors. MoS + rapturpus standard is a good way of holding out even with smaller units.

Rhamiel
05-01-2010, 12:42
ok thanks a lot i will add the rapturous standard to one of my warrior units. but which one? the nurgles or the khornes?

thanks

Rhamiel

Alltaken
05-01-2010, 14:44
MY friend plays a nasty ogre list

Tyrant
tenderizer
this armor that returns wounds (every wound you make is "regenrated")
a ward save
his armour is a gut plate and HA (magic armour being one of those) so really nothing to care there

3 butchers
1 bangstick and at leat 3 DS

then 3 or 4 units of Iron Guts
1 bull ogre unit

1 giant
1 gorger

Nothing else

Their magic is incredible. Just simply a great magic that mega buffs their units super cheap super effective.
Each bucher can cast 2 spells so you might get 3 castings of the same spell twice. Good odds to get something casted and the fact it obliges you to go heavy magic deffence.
Trust me you don't want T5 stubborn ogres running around or regeneration ogres. Can combine and be worst though.

Dag
05-01-2010, 17:19
warriors win, everytime

ogres cannot beat 2+ armour when you have better everything for 1/3 the cost.

if you take straight warriors he cant hurt you, period.

Dag
05-01-2010, 17:21
if the warriors lose, the ogre player gets all your models, its in the ogre rulebook... just dont read for it.

Rhamiel
05-01-2010, 18:13
well i don't think i'm going to be that worried about the magic style of ogre play, becuase my mate said he is looking at the battleforce. so i hopefully will be ok. and if not. i can always take the Rage of the Blood God Deamonic Gift, do try and negate some of it (but that would ruin the capeabilites of my exalted hero.
what do you think?

anyway this is my updated list:
Exalted Hero w/ Mark of Khorne, Shield and Chaos Runesword
Socerer w/ Level 2, Mark of Nurgle, Dispel Scroll and Power Familiar

14 Warriors w/ Mark of Khorne, Additional Hand Weapons and Full Command
14 Warriors w/ Mark of Nurgle, Shields, Full Command and Rapturous Standard
20 Marauders w/ Mark of Slaanesh, Light Armour, Shields and Full Command
5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Flails and Light Armour
5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Flails and Light Armour

5 Chaos Knights w/ Mark of Khorne

anything to add, the tactic is still the same. just slightly more able to deal with the fear causing ogres

Rhamiel

SevenSins
06-01-2010, 19:18
I think you should put the sorcerer on a mount (he can still join the warriors), normally I'd say the same about the exalted but seeing MoK makes him safer on foot (can't be drawn out on his own).
Your deployment ideas seem sound enough, try it out :)

Xzazzarai
06-01-2010, 19:20
Hi soon i will be collecting a nice army of Warriors of Chaos. My mate is also collecting a fantasy army and he is getting Ogre Kingdoms.

now my question to you is how with Warriors of Chaos can i take on the Ogre's? becuase by the sound of it ogres can dish out plenty of attacks, plus their bull charge and at that point i am not getting any attacks back because all my front guys have been killed.

so this is a real worry. my general plan for my WoC army (this can be changed) is to have a solid core of 3 warrior units, supported by a couple of Maruder Horsemen units. and maybe some chaos knights etc. but with 2 sorcerors and an exhalted hero.

of course this can change, but i still want the army to be able to take on all comers (it's just i will proberbly be facing Orges more than anything)

so if you guys have any tips for me i will gladly listen.

thanks a lot

Rhamiel

ps. do bare in mind i will be starting this army from scratch

Get in to CC with prety much any of your tough units and show him who's boss!

Enigmatik1
06-01-2010, 21:06
Just don't underestimate the Tyrant. While you should make short work of him barring terrible luck, well-geared Ogre Tyrants are no joke in CC.

I'm sure someone's already mentioned this...but I'd just like to reiterate that point.

Belakor
06-01-2010, 22:34
Most of the advice in this thread seems to be geared towards slaughtering the Ogres as fast as possible.

Is that what you want, or exciting good games?

Havock
07-01-2010, 12:59
You can already do that by starting out with a block of 20 marauders and 12 warriors as a main line.
A hero, a unit of knights, a unit of horsemen and some dogs should net you a decent 1000-1250 pts list that will mkae for enjoyable games without coming with a handicapped list.

You can keep your hero cheap, Mark of Tzeentch, steed, flail, shield and fury of the blood god.

DUNCAN99
09-01-2010, 19:12
just pick your favorite models and allow your friend to use more points :)