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LKHERO
01-01-2010, 04:49
My friend says its do-able.

Now I'm looking at the DE's army book for the Hidden Special rule, the rulebook for Scout and Skirmisher.. and I don't see a valid way for someone to charge with an assassin on turn 1.

The idea is to use Shades and deploy 10" outside a units LoS in the deployment phase, announce the assassin in the charge phase and go at it.

Thoughts?

Nurgling Chieftain
01-01-2010, 04:57
You've explained how it's done, but you have not explained why you think that method is not valid.

For the record, though, the FAQ states that that tactic is legal.

LKHERO
01-01-2010, 05:26
Well, the FAQ certainly helps.. but my opponent today was arguing that the rules say that Scouts aka Shades must be deployed 10" away from the enemy out of LoS. And over 10" is out of the charge range of the Assassin.

Nurgling Chieftain
01-01-2010, 05:29
The shades are just over 10" away. The assassin is announced. The assassin is placed in the unit, displacing one shade. The displaced shade is "conveniently" displaced in the direction of the enemy unit. Now, the shades are within 10" and can charge. Due to the way skirmish charges work, the shades end up single file behind the assassin, who is moved to the front even though that particular model doesn't have charge range.

LKHERO
01-01-2010, 05:36
I'm not visualizing this correctly.

Pg.61 of the DE army book "Hidden" - "Declare that the unit contains an Assassin and place the model in the front rank. Displace a rank and file model to make room for the Assassin"

Does this mean I place a model in the front rank being the Assassin 1" away from the Shade that was 10.0001" away from the enemy, remove any Shade in my unit and thus be in charge range?

Kalandros
01-01-2010, 05:39
You don't remove a model.
You pick up a model, place the Assassin then put the model back to keep unit coherency: max of 1" from where you placed the Assassin, thus turning the 10.00000000000001" away into a 9.0000000000000000001" away

Requires perfect situation where you have terrain and out of line of sight to be perfectly 10" away in a way that you will then have line of sight for a charge using the 'trick'

Zoolander
01-01-2010, 06:12
It's legal. It's just not very sportsman-like.

Skyth
01-01-2010, 15:27
Nothing unsportamanlike about it...It's hard to get off and usually not very useful.

The SkaerKrow
01-01-2010, 17:57
Nothing unsportamanlike about it...It's hard to get off and usually not very useful.I concur. If this is the nastiest thing that an opponent does to you (DE or otherwise), count your blessings.

theunwantedbeing
01-01-2010, 19:04
I concur. If this is the nastiest thing that an opponent does to you (DE or otherwise), count your blessings.

Yes generally all that happens is you lose a war machine that the assasin/shade unit charged into and then the assasin/shade unit then gets blown to hell by the enemy army it's now managed to get itself foolishly surrounded by.

100pt war machine for aat least 100pts of shades, plus another 150+pts of assasin. Worth the loss of the war machine if you ask me :P

In anycase, you've been able to do this since 6th edition DE's came out (pretty sure they appeared before skaven did, as they can do the same trick, still can infact! albeit with a 12" charge range....urgh)

It's not scary, just a little worrying when it first happens.
Like somebody standing behind you that you didn't realise was there....

Nurgling Chieftain
01-01-2010, 20:16
It's ever harder to pull off against warmachines, which have 360 LOS.

JimmyFrank
01-01-2010, 21:25
Heres how you charge an assassin first turn, none of this shades nonsense :p
Just kit him out with the cloak from his magic equipment list and fly him up the board first turn, bam, warmachines gone.
Of course this means you have to get the bound spell off but with all the power dice DE can muster its not hard to get your opponent to use up his dispel dice, and then he has to use a scroll (which also is good for you) if he doesn't want an assassin supermanning behind his battle line :D

decker_cky
01-01-2010, 21:53
Same trick tends to be more useful for a charge without LoS later in the game. Skaven assassins can make some nasty tricks with the same combo.