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eldar fan
01-01-2010, 06:11
Hi all. I'm entering a fairly big tourney in 3 weeks and am looking for some help/tips for my list.
Here is the list:
Rune Lord with Anvil of Doom and 2 Runes of Spell Breaking
Thane with Hand Weapon (Runes of Fury and Swiftness) and Shield
Thane with BS, Hand Weapon and Shield
10 Thunderer’s
10 Thunderer’s
10 Quarreller’s
20 Warriors with shields, Full Command
20 Warriors with shields, Full Command
20 Hammerer’s with Full Command, Shields and Rune of Courage
Grudge Thrower with Rune of Accuracy
Grudge Thrower with Runes of Accuracy and Burning
Cannon with Rune of Reloading
Organ Gun
Organ Gun

Just some quick notes on things I'd rather not change about the army.
-The second Organ Gun, I know a lot of people say that a gyro is a lot better but in my experience I have always preferred the Organ Gun at tourneys.
-The Rune of Courage, some people have told that I don't need this but I take it anyway just so nothing really unlucky happens with fear.
-The Hammerers shields, I don't understand people who suggest dropping these, I take them for the venerability they add to the unit with them they are able to take a charge and are also able to deliver a pretty nasty charge.

I'm open up to any other suggestions especially ones that result in me having spare points for some Runes of Stone on characters:D

LKHERO
01-01-2010, 07:15
You need a BSB in there. And you need RoStoicism on your Hammerers.

And you want another RoSpellbreaking on that Rune Lord. Quarrellers are of no use. Bring some Miners.

Razakel
01-01-2010, 08:19
Well most of the things I'd change you've already addressed. I'd take a second Gyrocopter unless theres a huge amount of Skirmishers who love to hug your War Machines.

I've never heard of people suggesting taking Hammerers without Shields. Thats a pretty stupid thing to do, having the option to go HW + Shield is golden in certain situations.

Also he can't take Miners, he can only use 4 Special Slots and hes used them all. I also disagree, I think Quarreller's can be quite good, especially if you win the first turn or your opponent gives you the first turn. Thunderers will be out of range, Quarreller's won't be.

I also think he already has a BSB. His second Thane says Thane with BS, I can't think of anything else that could be off the top of my head.

I think your army is sound, 7 Dispel dice & the 2 scrolls should cover you for the first 2 magic phases, unless the enemy army is overloaded with magic.

I'd say your better off with 2x Bolt Throwers instead of the Cannon, but thats just another personal choice.

Quannum
01-01-2010, 11:31
Ok this list needs a fair whack of work to even try and compete. I can see where you're going and you've got a good start but as a player who primarily plays Dwarfs, I can see some glaring holes. Hope I can help....

1) CHARACTERS - I like what you're doing and you've definitely chosen a nice combo of Anvil-Lord, BSB and Combat Thane, but you're gonna need to get their rune combos right. Keeping them alive is vital. The Runelord could use a RoPreservation to keep him alive. The BSB needs the MRoGromril, or to make him awesome, you could even try the MRoSpite and a RoStone. In CC, he's gonna be T5, with a 1+ AS, and a 4+ Ward. The Combat Thane should roll with MRoSwiftness, RoFury, RoCleaving, RoStone and a Shield. He'll be going first with 4 ASF S5 attacks, and is T5 with a 3+ AS if he needs it. Trick is to use him in conjunction with the BSB in the same unit, soaking up a nasty challenge with your BSB, and spanking rank and file for combat res with the Combat Thane.

I should state at this point mate that in 7th edition, Dwarven Runes win games - its gonna feel odd investing so many points into runes, but they seriously give us the advantage now, rather than bodies on the floor. We're gonna try and balance a decent number of bodies, with the best and most effecient runes for each unit...

1) CORE - Dwarfs have access to a wide and varied choice of some of the best Core units in the game IMO. Never have I felt that I'm just "filling the requirements" when I select the Core and they play a vital role on the tabletop - so it's important to get them right. For missile troops, its really a matter of what you think you're gonna need, but they MUST, and I stress MUST, come with shields. It sounds expensive but suddenly your basic core shooters become T4 with a 4+ AS in CC should anything reach them. More often than not its gonna be fast cavalry, fliers or scouts - things that aren't hard and so after a stand-and-shoot (where possible) they should hold their own - and even win - most of these combats (on a hill, outnumber, S&S kills, CC kills, etc.) If I were you, I'd take:

10 Thunderers w/ Shields - 150 pts. (excellent up on the front lines of a flank to guard the Anvil)

10 Quarrellers w/ Shields - 120 pts. (the added range opens up so many tactical opportunities for you).

With the missile troops sorted for now, (we can return later if needs be) let's look at the other Core. I absolutely love Dwarf Warriors but I can tell you that your current units will just not hold up anymore. In 6th, a unit of 20 Dwarf Warriors was a steamroller that won through attrition, now they simply cannot hold up for that long with a max of 6 S3 attacks to the front. If they get flanked, they're even worse. The answer is simple - make them cheap and effective, and designed for a single purpose. What's more, you can and should turn one of the units into Longbeards, point for point my favourite selection in the book - Core units with WS5, S4, T4, immune to panic and gives Warrior units re-rolls?? YES PLEASE! I'd take:

20 Longbeards w/ Shields, Full Command, RoBattle, RoStoicism - 315 pts. (this is where the aforementioned Runes comes into play. These guys are great on their own, and will rock house if the two thanes join. Their static combat res of 7 should be alone enough to win most combats, even before their multitude of S4/5 attacks.

10 Warriors w/ Shields - 90 pts. (Rising in popularity on the tourny circuit, this little units is perfect for bait and flee, flanking, rank negation, etc. to complement your Longbeards, making use of their panic re-rolls and also sturdy enough to handle fast cavalry and light troops just like the missile fellows. Cheap too!)

10 Warriors w/ Shields - 90 pts. (as above, but this time to complement your Hammerers)


3) SPECIAL: Ok this is real cut and thrust of the list. I like your gunline theme (after all, we are Dwarfs!) so let's really concentrate on making this the most effecient we can...

Firstly, the Cannon NEEDS the RoForging - this will turn a 1-in-6 chance of misfiring and rendering your Cannon useless for at least a turn, into a 1-in-36 chance, and allowing you that important re-roll on the Bounce roll too! Place a RoBurning on the Cannon and you've got a downright scary warmachine that negates Regeneration (something that's rife at tourneys). Secondly, Grudge Throwers are nasty things but have NEVER EVER made their points up for me, and I used to use two just like you have. If you are tempted, take just one with the RoPenetrating, RoAccuracy and RoBurning, but if not, leave them out.

I can't see why you haven't taken Bolt Throwers if you like artillery - you get two for the price of one Special slot (meaning more machines!) and along with their Elven counterparts, are the best Bolt Throwers in the game. Take two, each with the RoPenetrating (S7 is an absolute beast - you'll skewer more ranks and instant-kill chariots) and one with the RoBurning to adhere to our runic restrictions. Also never leave home without an Engineer for each, for 15 points, you get an extra crew member and better BS for the machine - a bargain.

Hammerers are just brilliant. Keep them as you have them. All in all, then, take...

1 Cannon w/ RoForging, RoBurning - 130 pts.
1 Bolt Thrower w/ Engineer, RoPenetrating, RoBurning - 90 pts.
1 Bolt Thrower w/ Engineer, RoPenetrating - 85 pts.
20 Hammerers w/ Shields, Full Command, RoCourage - 320 pts.

4)RARE: Possibly the easiest to select from because both the Gyro and the Organ Gun are insanely good. However, as you have more better warmachines now, I'd go for one of each, as it'll help with your Comp Score (no one like to see an Anvil and 2 OG's) and the Gyrocopter is just amazing for its points. The ability to bait and flee one turn, then rally AND move again on the following turn is open to no other race.

So the list would look like this:

Runelord - Anvil of Doom, 2 x RoSpellbreaking - 365 pts.

Thane - BSB, MRoGromril - 115 pts.

Thane - MRoSwiftness, RoCleaving, RoFury, RoStone, Shield - 142 pts.

10 Thunderers w/ shields - 150 pts.
10 Quarrellers w/ shields - 120 pts.
10 Warriors w/ shields - 90 pts.
10 Warriors w/ shields - 90 pts.
18 Longbeards w/ shields, Full Command, Battle, Stoicism - 291 pts.

20 Hammerers w/ shields, Full Command, Courage - 320 pts.
1 Cannon w/ Forging, Burning - 130 pts.
1 BT w/ Engineer, Penetrating, Burning - 90 pts.
1 BT w/ Engineer, Penetrating - 85 pts.

1 OG - 120 pts.
1 Gyrocopter - 140 pts.

TOTAL - 2248 pts.
PP: 2
DP: 7 + 2 Runes

3Xhume
01-01-2010, 13:26
I dont know, Quannum. It seems you are suggesting your own list rather than commenting his. Start your own thread if you wanna do that. His gunline list seemed fine. You should bring it to the tournament and let us know how you are doing.

Quannum
01-01-2010, 13:38
I dont know, Quannum. It seems you are suggesting your own list rather than commenting his. Start your own thread if you wanna do that. His gunline list seemed fine. You should bring it to the tournament and let us know how you are doing.

Granted I am letting him know what units I would use if I were him, but I am not suggesting my own list!!

I've looked at what he's included, and tried to suggest slightly better configs all round.

I don't take a list like this tournaments, because I prefer a Strollaz Dwarf Lord list with some Slayers.

But this will work just fine!

Q

eldar fan
02-01-2010, 06:15
Hi guys sorry it took so long for me to reply been busy with new years stuff.
Thanks for all the tips and thoughts.
-LKHERO sorry to say but i completely disagree with the Quarrellers been useless, I have found them invaluable especially versus elves with long bows and as Razakel said they are great for first turn seen them make a 15 man Swordmaster unit run of the board that's around 250 points straight up.
-Razakel you are right BS is battle standard, I should have written BSB to make it more clear sorry about that
-Quannum wow what a post that had some interesting stuff to read. the list at the end is quite interesting and i believe it would be very solid, however there are a few things you posted which I disagree on:
-Firstly the shields on missile troops, It may be lack of tourney experience with dwarfs but I just don't see it been that helpful. I mean in practice games I've had they are generally shielded from anything that causes to much pain by my warrior units.
-I disagree that 20 man warrior units are no longer effective, The fact that they can't really hit back I believe is irrelevant, I use them to just take the hits and either bunker down until another unit can get in the flank or use combat resolution to beat their opponent. Although I do think that they should probablly be given runes of battle to help with this thanks for this tip.
-Once again this could be my lack of experience so don't take offense if it's sounds silly/dumb but if you put both of your thanes in one squad wouldn't it just get avoided like the plague? I know as a high elf player that when I've been faced with this type of unit I've thrown spearmen at it as my Swordmasters just move around and charge something else. It seems to me that this unit would be to dependent on the anvils ability to give them a second move.
-The rest of your post is wonderful and has given me a few ideas I'd like to try

These two pieces of advice are given to me a lot but I just don't seem to get them.
- Firstly bolt throwers, I'm always told that these are one of the best choices for dwarfs, however I have never found them to be as effective as my Grudge Throwers. I also find that Grudge throwers seem to a have a better scare factor but I guess the usefulness depends on the squad size (This could however be another view I've gained as a high elf player I barely ever take 3-4 ranks most of my army is 14 man squads in 2x7, so I have found against BT's that they never worry me to much) I'd really like for someone to explain their use to me comparing them to Grudge throwers as these are what the BT's will likely replace if I but them in my army
-The second thing is the Gyrocopter. Ok maybe it is the better choice but I can never seem to use it right (once again probably due to my lack of experience) so for me they are never really worth it

Finally just so you guys all no I live in Australia and the comp down here is a lot harsher so no matter what I really do to the list it's gunna get bad marks.

I hope I haven't come off as really stubborn and unwilling to listen to advice but these are just my views fell free to prove me wrong and possibly even change my views

leeoaks
02-01-2010, 08:03
i think your list is solid. I also like cheap big dwarf units, they hold there own against any other troop choice in the game. i think the only thing i would change, is to add some bolt throwers. however the changes people suggest will be down to how they play and the rune combos that match.

Take lots of flaming there will be lots of daemons and double hydra lists if the meta game is like that in the uk. There is nothing better as a dwarf player that smashing two fatties on turn 1/2.