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Bedsheets
01-01-2010, 20:09
Can you issue a challenge on the charge? or do you have to wait until the next round of combat to issue a challenge?

Nurgling Chieftain
01-01-2010, 20:14
Yes, you can issue a challenge on the charge.

Bedsheets
02-01-2010, 05:36
If I charge a unit with my hero on a mount and his Unit champion challenges me. My hero does 2 wounds to his unit champion in the challenge, is the challenge over, assuming 1 wound champion, or does my mount also get to try to inflict wounds to add to the over kill bonus?

Nurgling Chieftain
02-01-2010, 06:07
The mount may add to the overkill bonus.

Razakel
02-01-2010, 09:19
You may issue a challenge on the charge.

All parties involved in a challenge will always strike, this includes mounts. This gives you the opportunity to inflict overkill with your mount even after the opposing model has been killed. Some people love to quibble over this though, so you should roll for your mount and your mounted characters attacks at the same time. Initiative providing of course.

(Use differently coloured dice).

Unuhexium
02-01-2010, 16:09
I have another question about challenges and since this thread had a really good title and seems pretty much resolved I'll just hijack it a bit. Are characters locked in a challenge until either dies or runs away or is it a "new" challenge in each combat phase, in other words, is it possible to change challengers between combats? To me, the first alternative (locked until death or escape) seem to be the most "in the spirit of the game", but I can't find any conclusive info on this.

Lord Zarkov
02-01-2010, 16:32
The first alternative is correct

puppetmaster24
02-01-2010, 16:34
a challange ends when one participant is dead or has run away.In laymans terms; you cannot change challangers between combats

Edit: ninjad.

Unuhexium
02-01-2010, 16:35
Thanks! =)

Edit: D'oh! *facepalm* It's there plain as daylight. How on earth did i miss that?

Aethlion dyra Ferralgaard
04-01-2010, 13:39
The other challenging thread brought it up,.. but I can't seem to toss my two cents in there,.. but basically what is GW thinking with this;


Q. Do characters engaged in a challenge only
count as being in base to base contact with one
another? Or are they considered to still be in base
to base contact with other friendly/enemy models
around them?
A. Characters engaged in a challenge are still in
base to base contact with other friendly/enemy
models. Thus the challenge participants may be
affected by magic items/abilities originating from
outside the combat (and vice versa).

So,.. if I'm playing a WoC player,.. and he ranks up his hero as close to the middle of his front rank,.. and has that magical item that gives him +1 attack for each enemy model in B2B,.. and he challenges,.. it's up to him if he wants to move his model and loose attacks?!

So it's a "warm feeling" moment,.. that determines if he wants to lose attacks,.. or a "jerk ass" moment where I demand he move his model to the outside of the unit to resolve the challenge?!

We're technically both right in this situation,.. he does'nt have to move his model,.. but you "can" so "things look cool",..

This all has to do with where an opponent places his challenging hero, and how you align units in combat,.. and the size of bases involved,.. in this case the character is on a 25mm,.. so would touch 3 enemy models at all times, provided the enemy unit is wider than your own (or the character is placed close enough to the middle to garnish the 3 enemy base contacts),..

Where this becomes dodgy,.. is when you have a hero on a 20mm going against a 25mm unit,.. as depending on where the hero is,.. and how you align,.. you'll either get 1 or 2,.. this isn't an issue in friendly games,.. and you can remember to tackle this problem before the game starts,.. but against people you don't know,.. or at a tourny where everyone is jonesin' to win so they can get that store gift-certificate,.. it could be a problem,..


No wait,.. the 25mm base could only touch 2 models if he's the second from the left and you align from the left,.. or if he's,....


Oh no,.. I've gone cross-eyed,...

lparigi34
04-01-2010, 13:44
You may issue a challenge on the charge.

All parties involved in a challenge will always strike, this includes mounts. This gives you the opportunity to inflict overkill with your mount even after the opposing model has been killed. Some people love to quibble over this though, so you should roll for your mount and your mounted characters attacks at the same time. Initiative providing of course.

(Use differently coloured dice).

Disagree about the Initiative part... AFAIK Charging models attack all at the same time (but after ASF models)

Milgram
04-01-2010, 14:32
charging models attack all at the same time unless it matters. e.g. because two opposing units are charging.

MFWalter
04-01-2010, 19:33
Disagree about the Initiative part... AFAIK Charging models attack all at the same time (but after ASF models)

Yeah, but if the challange is unresolved in the first closecombat round you still have to fight it in the second close combat round and then your down to ASF and Initiative order.

Poseidal
04-01-2010, 22:04
The other challenging thread brought it up,.. but I can't seem to toss my two cents in there,.. but basically what is GW thinking with this;



So,.. if I'm playing a WoC player,.. and he ranks up his hero as close to the middle of his front rank,.. and has that magical item that gives him +1 attack for each enemy model in B2B,.. and he challenges,.. it's up to him if he wants to move his model and loose attacks?!

So it's a "warm feeling" moment,.. that determines if he wants to lose attacks,.. or a "jerk ass" moment where I demand he move his model to the outside of the unit to resolve the challenge?!

We're technically both right in this situation,.. he does'nt have to move his model,.. but you "can" so "things look cool",..

This all has to do with where an opponent places his challenging hero, and how you align units in combat,.. and the size of bases involved,.. in this case the character is on a 25mm,.. so would touch 3 enemy models at all times, provided the enemy unit is wider than your own (or the character is placed close enough to the middle to garnish the 3 enemy base contacts),..

Where this becomes dodgy,.. is when you have a hero on a 20mm going against a 25mm unit,.. as depending on where the hero is,.. and how you align,.. you'll either get 1 or 2,.. this isn't an issue in friendly games,.. and you can remember to tackle this problem before the game starts,.. but against people you don't know,.. or at a tourny where everyone is jonesin' to win so they can get that store gift-certificate,.. it could be a problem,..


No wait,.. the 25mm base could only touch 2 models if he's the second from the left and you align from the left,.. or if he's,....
The FAQ (about the Bloodskull Pendant, WoC FAQ) suggests he's still in base to base. Furthermore, if he did the challenge, and you accept, you must move your challenged unit into base to base (moving in the ranks with one of the other models in your unit); if this is impossible for some reason, then the challenger will move but the challenged must move if the opportunity presents itself.

Milgram
05-01-2010, 07:21
but the challenged must move if the opportunity presents itself.

and if both challengers are not able to get in contact with each other, they remain where they are.

Bedsheets
15-01-2010, 16:39
Is there some official ruling that says you can challenge on the charge. This keeps getting brought up in our games and apparently my opponents have phoned the GW hotline 2 times and both times the GW persons told them you cannot issue a challenge on the charge.

Doesn't seem right to me that you can't however we keep having to roll off on it each game because no one can seem to agree.

Nurgling Chieftain
15-01-2010, 19:06
There is no rule preventing you from issuing (nor accepting) a challenge on the turn you charge into CC.

sulla
16-01-2010, 01:13
Is there some official ruling that says you can challenge on the charge. .Well, you don't challenge 'on the charge' but at the start of a combat phase. Since chargers are already in BTB at the start of their combat phase, there's nothing stopping them challenging...

jeuna
16-01-2010, 08:39
The other challenging thread brought it up,.. but I can't seem to toss my two cents in there,.. but basically what is GW thinking with this;



So,.. if I'm playing a WoC player,.. and he ranks up his hero as close to the middle of his front rank,.. and has that magical item that gives him +1 attack for each enemy model in B2B,.. and he challenges,.. it's up to him if he wants to move his model and loose attacks?!

So it's a "warm feeling" moment,.. that determines if he wants to lose attacks,.. or a "jerk ass" moment where I demand he move his model to the outside of the unit to resolve the challenge?!

We're technically both right in this situation,.. he does'nt have to move his model,.. but you "can" so "things look cool",..

This all has to do with where an opponent places his challenging hero, and how you align units in combat,.. and the size of bases involved,.. in this case the character is on a 25mm,.. so would touch 3 enemy models at all times, provided the enemy unit is wider than your own (or the character is placed close enough to the middle to garnish the 3 enemy base contacts),..

Where this becomes dodgy,.. is when you have a hero on a 20mm going against a 25mm unit,.. as depending on where the hero is,.. and how you align,.. you'll either get 1 or 2,.. this isn't an issue in friendly games,.. and you can remember to tackle this problem before the game starts,.. but against people you don't know,.. or at a tourny where everyone is jonesin' to win so they can get that store gift-certificate,.. it could be a problem,..


No wait,.. the 25mm base could only touch 2 models if he's the second from the left and you align from the left,.. or if he's,....

Poseidal is right, furthermore i think i remember something about them never really leaving the unit, but just putting the outside the unti for convenience and playability. So I would say he keeps his extra attacks.