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Shyvax
05-01-2010, 17:01
I have been playing GW's games since 1992 now, so quite few years, but I found, since they started doing LOTR they don't do anymore "Specialist Games".

Yes, you will tell me, they released the brilliantly amazing Space Hulk recently, and thank you SO much for such a great surprise, but I kinda miss all those side games, with very cool background, with a casual edge, but always some more rules if gamer wish to push deeper, like career rules, or league, etc.

As much as I like W40K or WBattle, I find them an endless repetition since the last 20 years. Yes, there is more mini, more playable rules, but the storyline never moved, or to few, and if we take the example of the space marines, they are identical as 15 years ago. When you see all the new art direction they came with over the last few years (Dainton, Blanche, Kopinski,...) I found that are not matching that standard of there artistic background.


I complain but I still love their universe, just wanted to have some feedback from the community.

Mannimarco
05-01-2010, 17:02
this should probably be over in other GW discussion....

Lord Damocles
05-01-2010, 17:07
As much as I like W40K or WBattle, I find them an endless repetition since the last 20 years. Yes, there is more mini, more playable rules, but the storyline never moved, or to few, and if we take the example of the space marines, they are identical as 15 years ago. When you see all the new art direction they came with over the last few years (Dainton, Blanche, Kopinski,...) I found that are not matching that standard of there artistic background.
To be fair, did the storylines of any of the Specialist Games actually change all that much while they were 'mainstream'? I certainly don't remember anything particularly significant ever hapening.


Besides which, the rules and a half decent selection of models are available for most of the Specialist Games so it's not like they're unplayable.

Shyvax
05-01-2010, 17:17
You are right, the storyline does not move on a specialist games, but they point out a very particular aspect of it and goes more in details than 40K or Battle.

My point was, they don't do anymore new original specialist games, and I found it too bad as I really enjoyed them.

nagash66
05-01-2010, 17:24
To be fair, did the storylines of any of the Specialist Games actually change all that much while they were 'mainstream'? I certainly don't remember anything particularly significant ever hapening.



BFG had great import, Aby got his talismans of Vaul, we got to have a look at the navy in depth and it set up the 13 crusade to a degree.

t-tauri
05-01-2010, 17:27
Moved to Specialist Games General. Please look down past 40k general before opening a new thread...

wolf40k
05-01-2010, 17:30
I wish that they would bring them back but they won't because they aren't really all the that profitable.

Think about it, once you have your Necromunda gang, Blood Bowl team, and so on, your done. No more investing in buying more or expanding your collection.

Warhammer Armies, 40 armies, and LOTR on the other hand are always adding something new.

I would love if they brought it all back (Gorka Morka was the first hobby game I ever played) but I don't believe that they will.

Shyvax
05-01-2010, 22:23
Allow me to disagree with you wolf40k, I will take few example, the first, and most recent, Space Hulk, sold out in less than a month, with over 30.000 copies or so. I am sure they have their money back... and well.
Necromunda... You want to play "delaque", fine buy them. But, then, you find out, than the Orlocks are more your kind of gang..... then you buy again, etc.... and if you add a psyker, or a mercenary or two plus a special character... you got your money back. Knowing that the produsction is limited in term of mini, they don't need to do 6 races, with different sub races, with 10 differents kind of warrior in each.
I believe that it is a good suport for 40K and battle.
As far as I am concern, Heroquest, made me play battle, and sapce crusade made me wanted to try 40K.

and Gorka was good fun ;-)

kaled
06-01-2010, 17:48
Think about it, once you have your Necromunda gang, Blood Bowl team, and so on, your done. No more investing in buying more or expanding your collection.
People say that, and for them it may be true, but in my experience people often get hooked on these games and then want a second gang or team. For example, I started out with a single four man Inquisitor warband who were really built as display pieces, but soon got into the game and now have a collection of 80+ characters.

Does it matter that there aren't any new Specialist Games. Or that existing ones don't get much support from GW? They all get plenty of support from existing players, so if you're tired of 40k then there's nothing to stop you getting into a Specialist Game that you haven't tried yet - just pick one you like the sound of and I'm sure people will soon point you at an online community of players and it probably won't be long before you find some players in real-life too. (I can recommend Inquisitor ;) - it has the story & background element you seem to be looking for...)

yabbadabba
06-01-2010, 18:13
There is a reason why SG's aren't a priority - they dont make the cash. Thats fact. No matter how you dress it up it is the main reason why they were sidelined.

Saying that they are great games and it is certainly worth getting into one if you can find an opponent or two - mordheim, necro, gorka, BB all benefit much more from campaigns.

MarcoSkoll
07-01-2010, 16:26
Think about it, once you have your Necromunda gang, Blood Bowl team, and so on, your done. No more investing in buying more or expanding your collection.
You could say the same thing about most armies from the "Big Three".
Put together your Space Marine/Eldar/Dwarf/Skaven/Gondor/Mordor army, and you can easily stop there, at least until a new set of rules changes it up, and even then, you can usually get away with pretty modest changes.

The truth is, a lot of the specialist games are more likely to keep mixing up your collection. In Necromunda or Mordheim, your characters can get injured, killed, get/lose equipment, you get new gang/warband members - in short, you're constantly changing your models.
You could play 40k a game a day for a year, and you'd still be able to end with the same army. The specialist games... while you could manage it, if you were converting up your models WYSIWYG as you went, you'd almost certainly have something very, very different at the end of it.

And as Kaled very rightly says, in the case of something like Inquisitor, you just keep having ideas for new characters. Half the fun is creating and modelling these extraordinary people.
You can stop... but you don't want to!

Shyvax
09-01-2010, 19:52
ok guys!!!!
Thanks a lot for all your replies. I had no idea, this game (Inquisitor) was that good. I red pretty much all your links and found some more.... however, I will play in a 28mm scale, I prefer this scale.

I found this guy http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/208707.page
his work is absolutely amazing, he really made me realize, that in opposition to Necromunda where you need to stick with a band from the same kind (delaque, escher, etc....) you can mix absolutely everything with Inquisitor!

Which match way more with the w40k universe to me.

Don't hesitate to send me some more link. I am going to buy the rule book straight away this ev ;-)

hope to see you around a table! thanks.

kaled
09-01-2010, 21:23
You don't need to buy it, just download it for free from the GW site and then head on over to the Conclave and you'll soon find a link to loads more PDFs, both official and unofficial.

Don't dismiss 54mm until you've tried it. If you don't like it you can always keepthe model as a display piece...

MarcoSkoll
10-01-2010, 00:05
You don't need to buy it, just download it for free from the GW site...
That said, it does pay to have a hard copy - much more convenient for when you're at the table. You could probably easily find an older copy on Ebay - but if you want a shiny new copy, go for it.


Don't dismiss 54mm until you've tried it.
It can't be stressed enough - don't dismiss 54mm.

The normal thing with Inq28 is the immediate gravitating to just using "Tom, Dick or Harry" from a 40k army. Inquisitor is not about characters who are just about to walk onto a battlefield - most Inquisitor scenarios are based around chance encounters, with the characters fighting with just what equipment they carry all the time (it's risky work - an Inquisitor would never be daft enough to be unprepared for any potential threats, either to themselves, or the Imperium.)
The parts in the 28mm range can encourage some rather uncharacterful models.

However, a really quite serious reason in your case is playing 28mm kills some of the methods mentioned in the other thread for finding other players.

Let's say you want to try and find local players using the Conclave's player list (http://www.the-conclave.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=38.0). That's not going to go very far, as the vast majority of the players on that list have collections of 54mm, not 28mm models.
Want to play at a Conclave event at Warhammer World? Again, those events are played with 54mm models. While you say "hope to see you around a table", if you choose 28mm, you're unlikely to be playing against any of us.

While I don't have a problem with Inq28 as long as it's done properly, it might be more trouble than it's worth to you. Inq28 is more something you get into if you already have a group of mates who are looking to play Inquisitor. If you haven't got such a group of people, then 54mm will likely give you a much better chance of finding players.
You can pick up 54mm Inq models for pretty reasonable prices on Ebay - if you're patient (particularly patient if you want something specific), you can put together a three or four person warband for less than you'd pay for a squad in 40k.

Easy E
12-02-2010, 23:16
I think the best thing about Specialist Games was that they created a bridge into the main games. I started in RT days, so I don't count. However, most of the people I play with now started on Necro, and then moved to 40K.

Where is GW's bridge now? Assault on Black Reach?

Now the best thing about Specialist Games is that players can completely own the universe and not worry about GW meddling with it. Now, if you want anything new and interesting you have to do it yourself. That is good in my mind.

yabbadabba
13-02-2010, 07:45
I think the best thing about Specialist Games was that they created a bridge into the main games. I started in RT days, so I don't count. However, most of the people I play with now started on Necro, and then moved to 40K.
Where is GW's bridge now? Assault on Black Reach? I disagree in the UK. Most started on WFB or 40K and then moved to SG's. That might be the huge influence of the store based recruitment system, but SG's were never meant to be a bridge into the main games. They were a chance for the studio and gamers to take a small slice of 40k/WFB life and go into a lot more detail.

The only games that could be said to be designed as a "bridge" were Space Crusade and Heroquest, but they were made in conjunction with MB games and were not sold in GW stores.

Blood Bowl and Space Hulk were board games GW could sell instore, pure and simple. They, plus Talisman were designed as a bit of pick up fun for long term gamers who were looking for something quick and simple (although both sets of orginal rules got quickly out of control) and and added side effect was that 2nd Ed Talisman, 2nd Ed Space Hulk and 3rd Ed Blood Bowl were all good games to sell students and adults as a one off, fun sale mostly to be played after being in the pub.

As far as I am aware GW have never seen anythign other than 40K, WFB and now LotR as the start of a persons involvement in the hobby. Any other route in was just a bonus.

Easy E
15-02-2010, 17:39
You are right for the UK. Perhaps my story is simply a varient based on the local availability of games and money.

Although now that you mention it, I did use Heroquest and Battlemasters to suck a few people into the idea of wargaming in general.

maximu160490
22-02-2010, 23:42
Blood Bowl ...fun sale mostly to be played after being in the pub.



I think you are missing the point - Blood bowl is usually played IN the pub - most tournaments are set in or near a source of alchol

yabbadabba
23-02-2010, 08:47
I think you are missing the point - Blood bowl is usually played IN the pub - most tournaments are set in or near a source of alchol
Nope, don't see what you are getting at there.