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Shamutanti
05-01-2010, 22:56
In March myself and a friend will be attending a local gaming club tournament, specifically a 1500point (750 each) doubles, 20 teams, 3 games over the course of the day, 2 hour time limit per game and a mixture of fairly competitive players that we know (of) (Dark Elf/Vamp Count, Warriors of Chaos/Vamp Count, Demons/Dark Elves, Empire/Lizardmen) and those that we don't.

My friend (and my normal gaming opponent) has a decently sized High Elf force with a large collection of models within that range, a far better knowledge of the rule book than myself (I shout n' scream random instructions to my toy soldiers, he directs me as to what's legal or not :P) and the ability to paint fantastically well (whilst I'm your average base coat/wash/highlight sort of guy).

I personally have a large carry case of almost every army (bar those pointy eared Elf things) with, generally speaking, at least 1 unit of each type, per army. I have been most recently using my Demons, Vamp Counts and Brets but have an almost finished Skaven army and Tomb King army sitting by ready to be used.

The rules for Doubles are the standard GT ones pretty much, with a few tweaks but nothing that I would bother concerning myself with, simply because I'm more interested in the armies, as opposed to the rule set.

So my questions are really this...

Due to this being a local tournament and therefore not a GT, would you think it 'best', and by best I mean, 'the most fun' (oh how subjective that word is) to go full on competitive?

Which army combination would you consider the most interesting to play with/against?

What army combination would you avoid using and why?

Unuhexium
05-01-2010, 23:46
The goal is to win right? Go competitive. Btw, why can't competitive lists be fun to play with/against? I sure as hell wouldn't hold back if there will be competitive players around. I myself am a competitive player and I expect that my opponent will do his best me to beat so naturally I do the same.

Are you and your friend in the same team? If so, try to complement each other's army. I'm not too familiar with High Elves but they seem to have a good magic and shooting phase. Take something that will rape faces in melee. Some may argue that "more of the same" would be better, but then you'd be gimped against some armies.

In conclusion, go for armies that complement each other and avoid focusing too much on one thing.

SimonL
06-01-2010, 03:01
As a Skaven player who plays lots of doubles games with his mates, I can tell you DON"T PICK SKAVEN...The number of times I've obliterated portions of my unfortunate partner's army with explosions or gunned down his units with a random hail of ratling gun bullets...is it any wonder my only frequent team-mate is a O&G player who brings 6 Fanatics?

AndyGI
06-01-2010, 14:25
Are you restricted by what armies can ally with the high elves?

Shamutanti
06-01-2010, 14:43
Not in particular, there's a few measures by a system they've got called Battlebrothers, but it's focused around who gets the first turn, which isn't a huge worry.

Shadow Rider
06-01-2010, 14:54
Hmm I am going to a Doubles Tournament in Februrary. 1,000pts each haing to following a 2k Force Organisation Chart between the two of us with no Lord Choices being allowed. He is taking a Heavy Cavalry Based Warriors of Chaos army with 20 Knights in it.

I am planning on taking a pure Tzeentch Daemon Army. They ally nicely together and If you get the mix right they compliment well. He deals with all of the combat whilst I do the magic and Shooting (Me having 11/12 Power Dice in 1k Points).

Make sure you compliment each others Army list and work together. You should have no problem having fun and still being competitive.

EndlessBug
06-01-2010, 16:14
High elves would work well with Empire I'd imagine:

HE:
Mage - lvl 2, seerstaff, scroll (Fury of Khaine, flames of the phoenix and drain magic)
10 Archers
5 Dragon Princes - FC, banner of sorcery
2 Bolt Throwers

Empire:
Warrior priest - armour of meteoric iron, (immunity fear/terror item), great weapon
Warrior priest - barded steed, doomfire ring, enchanted shield
5 Inner circle knights - FC
20 Swordsmen - FC
9 Free companies - detactment
1 Cannon

That's 4+d3 power dice and 3 bound spells a turn.
on average:
PL 3 doomfire
PL 4 prayer
PL 4 prayer
3 dice on fury of khaine
3 dice on flames of the phoenix (drain magic if they have nasty magic)

6 DD and 1 scroll

osickx
08-01-2010, 11:57
I think that you should take an empire gunline, and he should take some combat troops, maybe?

Shamutanti
16-01-2010, 20:04
So we've decided to go for High Elves / Wood Elves, using an obvious anvil/hammer tactic whilst attempting to bait n' harass units into give us some control of the game.

I'll be taking:

Noble; Wardancer upgrade + Swords of Loec
6 Wild Riders with Standard
7 Wardancers
6 Glade Riders with Mus
6 Glade Riders with Mus

He's taking:

Caradryn (can't spell that dirty elf's name!)
24 White Lions with full cmd + standard of Balance
10 Archers

Thoughts?

enyoss
16-01-2010, 20:35
Nice choice of alliance, it's nice to spice things up with two very different play-styles.

I think your WE list looks nice, so no real comments. It's good to see an all elf WE list too!

His list I'd change around a bit though, but mainly because I have a mild obsession with getting spearmen into my HE lists. Also, 24 White Lions is an awful lot. Instead, I'd go for 14 White Lions and then pour the remaining points into a spearmen unit. Also, I'd swap the Standard of Balance for the Lion Standard. It's cheaper, and all you really need to guard against is Fear and Terror anyway. The problems that come with Immune to Psychology outweight the benefits in my mind: you probably won't want to flee charges with that unit anyway, but it would be nice to have the option.

Overall though I have one serious question, which is about magic defence. You'll be facing a combined force of 3000 points, and you only have the basic two defence dispel dice. For this, I'd switch out Caradryan for a High Elf mage, as the bonus +1 to dispel would be nice, and then you can at least take part in the Magic Phase (it's always more fun to have something to do in each phase, at least that's what I find!).

Pity the game won't be until March!

Shamutanti
16-01-2010, 20:49
Cheers for the comments enyoss. Gonna break down your quote a bit to respond to some things, mainly to gauge a bit more insight into it! Feel free to respondo back!



His list I'd change around a bit though, but mainly because I have a mild obsession with getting spearmen into my HE lists.

We've both had pretty dire experiences with his spearmen. They tend to not really perform, at least they havn't vs. me or with him using 'em. I believe he's got around 30-35 odd, so maybe it's something for us to look at.


Also, 24 White Lions is an awful lot. Instead, I'd go for 14 White Lions and then pour the remaining points into a spearmen unit.

He thought 24 was alot but I sort of made him plump for it. 2 other teams out of the 20 going are friends, so we're going to bash the list around once or twice and see what comes of it! But concern noted!


Also, I'd swap the Standard of Balance for the Lion Standard. It's cheaper, and all you really need to guard against is Fear and Terror anyway.

This was mainly taken to combat Hatred, cause we know at least 3 teams will have Dark Elves (fear from Caradryn meaning we don't care too much 'bout fear/terror). Maybe we're overthinking on possibilities.


Overall though I have one serious question, which is about magic defence. You'll be facing a combined force of 3000 points, and you only have the basic two defence dispel dice. For this, I'd switch out Caradryan for a High Elf mage, as the bonus +1 to dispel would be nice, and then you can at least take part in the Magic Phase

The game is 1500points, 750 each, just ta clear up any confusion I may have placed. Thus why we've got a little more magic light. Also most our magic def. comes from resistance. So Carad. gives 3, and is in the white lion unit, my wardancers n' wild riders have 1 each and frankly the glade riders can lump it! :P

Admittedly we won't have much to stop movement spells or raising but we figured we would try to simply hack n' over run through units.


(it's always more fun to have something to do in each phase, at least that's what I find!).

Agreed! But we both agreed that if we were going to go magic related, we would do it either heavy or not at all. So it was either combat or shooting and well, shooting is for girly elves! Wait...

enyoss
16-01-2010, 22:40
We've both had pretty dire experiences with his spearmen. They tend to not really perform, at least they havn't vs. me or with him using 'em. I believe he's got around 30-35 odd, so maybe it's something for us to look at.


Some people seem to struggle to get much out of them, but I've always found them very useful. I think they perform best as a unit of 25 with full command and the Warbanner, but I suspect many players are nervous about fielding such a large core unit.

Although I don't mind taking archers as a second core choice, I don't find them effective enough to justify being my sole core. I think they're effectively a 120 point tax you pay to be able to satisfy your core limit and be able to turn up to the game!



He thought 24 was alot but I sort of made him plump for it. 2 other teams out of the 20 going are friends, so we're going to bash the list around once or twice and see what comes of it! But concern noted!


My main concern is that the unit is a bit unwieldy and that back ranks on white lions are often wasted. I find they operate best at around 14 models, so you might want to think about two units of 12? All they have to do is hold a charge with stubborn and have one rank in combat to dish out pain. Then you can concentrate on getting flanking units in to knock off the enemy's rank bonus.



This was mainly taken to combat Hatred, cause we know at least 3 teams will have Dark Elves (fear from Caradryn meaning we don't care too much 'bout fear/terror). Maybe we're overthinking on possibilities.


I thought that might be the idea :). Does the Standard of Balance even work against Eternal Hatred? It's a rules question I guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if people argued it's a special rule rather than a psychology. Anyway, it's only 20 points difference, so it's not the end of the world.



The game is 1500points, 750 each, just ta clear up any confusion I may have placed. Thus why we've got a little more magic light. Also most our magic def. comes from resistance. So Carad. gives 3, and is in the white lion unit, my wardancers n' wild riders have 1 each and frankly the glade riders can lump it! :P


I thought those armies were small! Ok, I see what you mean with the magic resistance. I would get Caradryan to work quickly on those VC unit raisers though!

As one last comment, I would make a change to your WE list afterall :p. I think you might be better off switching one of the glade rider units for some glade guard, as shooting is pretty effective in small games and that S4 short range bonus is lovely.

Shamutanti
27-01-2010, 02:41
So we played a Lizardman + Empire combo a few days back as a tester (the guys we played are going to the tourn also) and the list didn't work as we planned. Partly because we dicked up our deployment, somewhat because they were ridiculously lucky and a little bit down to being indecisive.

I tend to play quite aggressive, getting into position fast and allowing combo charges across the table whilst my partner is a slow burner, building up momentum across the tabletop.

Obviously this is doubles so our approaches has to change but we decided after the game to change our set up somewhat soooo...

Wood Elves:
Noble; Wardancer upgrade + Moonstone
6 Wild Riders with Standard
7 Wardancers
6 Glade Riders with Mus
6 Glade Riders with Mus

High Elves:
Caradryn (can't spell that dirty elf's name!)
15 Phoenix Guard w/ Full Command + Standard of Ellerion (Think that's it, the one that lets you move through terrain)
10 Archers
2 x Repeater Bolt Throwers

Thoughts?

It becomes more a gunline than previous but has potential to bounce into quite a good striking force if I play the flanks correctly.

EndlessBug
27-01-2010, 11:49
Looks good. A strong magic army wil severely hurt you though. Not much you can do about this it seems.

Unless you drop the wild riders for a branchwriath (lvl 1 and cluster) and 8 dryads? (not sure on how short on points you'd be?)

Shamutanti
27-01-2010, 13:37
Looks good. A strong magic army wil severely hurt you though. Not much you can do about this it seems.

Unless you drop the wild riders for a branchwriath (lvl 1 and cluster) and 8 dryads? (not sure on how short on points you'd be?)

Well we thought about it but a branchwraith @ level 1 with clusters is 140 points.

The wild riders are 174.

We have some Magic Res off the Tatoos/Carad still, so it means we have a bit of defence vs. magic missiles but we won't be able to stop much in the way of raising dead etc. but the hope is we can outmaneuver it or if worse comes to worse, simply run through it.

The Wild Riders are a gamble for us and a few people I've spoke to said just drop them and the Wardancers for Dryads, but we wanna try a game more focused around movement to see how we can fair with it and I'm a little partial to the Wild Riders personally ^^;;