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View Full Version : Storm Guardians -- Buy or convert?



dariakus
09-01-2010, 14:49
I'm starting to get into Eldar, and I'm in need of some Storm Guardians.

The box for sale at GW only has 8 in it, and only a single flamer and a single fusion gun. I'd like two squads of 10-11 with 2x flamers each.

If I bought boxes, I could use the fusion guns as counts-as flamers, since they look so similar. Paint them up the same and you wouldn't even really know it. It'd take 3 boxes, though, which is a whole lot of moolah for just two troop units.

I've also seen people convert Guardian Defenders into Storm Guardians, but I'm not sure how you'd get the flamers for them. I plan on buying two Battleforces, so I could convert all of those guys and that'd give me two units of 10, but again, I'm not sure where you get close combat weapons for them all, and I'm not sure where you get flamers for them. Buying all of those bits could end up costing just as much as buying 3 boxes of Storm Guardians.

Any ideas?

x2wyckedx
09-01-2010, 14:55
I would just buy the boxes. That is what I am planning to do. I need 10 and two flamers.

Thud
09-01-2010, 15:05
I'll eventually add two squads to my Eldar army and what I'm planning on doing is get two Storm squads and one of those five man Defender boxes to convert to special weapons.

dariakus
09-01-2010, 18:11
Eek, Storm Guardian boxes are direct order only, so I can't get my usual discount on them :( I may have to find some fancy way to convert from normal Guardians.

Radium
09-01-2010, 18:19
They're not THAT expensive, so I'd suggest just buying 3 boxes (so you can build 2 squads). If you are really that strapped for cash, buy some regular guardians and use DA pistols and power weapons.

Dr.Clock
09-01-2010, 23:19
I bought some old school metal guardians off ebay and gave them Dark Elf corsair hand weapons + some old assault weapons.

the special weapons are from old school weapon frames.

Converting defenders is also not a bad idea... they'd probably work with the corsair weapons as well.

Your main issue is definitely going to be the special weapons. I'd just keep eyes open on ebay. Failing that, using a few pieces from the heavy weapon sprue in place of a shuriken barrel might work.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Broken Loose
09-01-2010, 23:27
Use wraithlord flamers, direswords, and shuriken pistols to convert them if you can. The current storm guardians are metal with Ulthwé symbols all over them, so if you're not playing Ulthwé you're gonna have to convert them anyway. Not worth the price, and, honestly, diresword/pistol DA exarchs are the least popular, anyway. Even if you don't have the parts laying around, I'm certain somebody else does.

If you want fusion guns, you're kind of in a bit of a bind unless you feel like chopping up some fire dragons. Personally, I use my SG as a template delivery system with 2 flamers and a destructor, so fusion guns aren't an issue.

Dr.Clock
09-01-2010, 23:30
Or here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ELDAR-BITS-PARTS-COLLECTION-JOB-LOT-PLASTIC_W0QQitemZ220537014255QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _Toys_Wargames_RL?hash=item335907c7ef#ht_500wt_113 9

three flamers, three meltas and some other randomness.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Reinholt
09-01-2010, 23:35
If you really want them, buy them.

Granted, I don't know why you'd want them (those damn guys are terrible), but if you do, it's easy enough to buy a box.

druchii
09-01-2010, 23:37
I've converted 22 storm guardians.

Initially I bought a bunch of thsoe weird boxes that had a wave serpent and 5 Dire Avengers in them. I never used the avengers so I ended up converting them into a bunch of storm guardians!

The special weapons came from a friend who had a bunch of ooooold eldar flamers/fusion guns, and the close combat weapons are a mixture of Dark Elf warrior swords, spears, Dire Avenger Power Weapons/Dire Swords. The other Storm Guardians are using the Shuriken "pistol" for the DA exarch as sort of a "shuriken carbine" since I figured they'd be using a shorter version of the shuriken catapult in their close-in fighting. I've also used a lot of bits and pieces from my bits box to kitbash the crap out of them.

Mostly they use combinations of DA and guardian body parts, with guardian helmets, and arms from as many eldar kits as I can scrounge. Usually the guardian arms are the best (well the DA ones too) because they have a ball and socket joint-so you can cut off the cupped hand, or the shuriken catapult and swap out the hands for whatever you like.

d

TheDeadspace
09-01-2010, 23:40
If you really want them, buy them.

Granted, I don't know why you'd want them (those damn guys are terrible), but if you do, it's easy enough to buy a box.

On the contrary, I can certainly see the appeal of a unit with three flame templates (2 Flamers and a Destructor-Lock) jumping out of a Wave Serpent.

shabbadoo
10-01-2010, 00:46
And that is exactly why they are good. 11 Guardians and a Warlock with Destructor, plus 2 flamers in the squad. Two flamers, a heavy flamer, and 9 shuriken pistol shots can do some serious damage to even MEQs due to the potentially large amount of saves that will need to be made. They are particularly good against anything with a 5+ or worse save and Initiative of 3 or less(IG, Orks). If you are willing to take a chance and run a Wave Serpent up into the enemy's face and take a round of fire/assault, and survive it without being Stunned or Destroyed, offloading a unit of Storm Guardians that can then move, shoot, and assault can dish out a lot of damage. That is the optimum situation of course.

Gensuke626
10-01-2010, 00:56
The current storm guardians are metal with Ulthwé symbols all over them, so if you're not playing Ulthwé you're gonna have to convert them anyway. Not worth the price, and, honestly, diresword/pistol DA exarchs are the least popular, anyway. Even if you don't have the parts laying around, I'm certain somebody else does.


actually...from what I can tell...the Storm Guardians box is the parts for 8 plastic guardians with metal arms and heads...so they should come with normal plastic guardian heads...since that's the only part that seems to have Ulthwe bits.

dariakus
10-01-2010, 01:16
Man, three boxes of these is the same price as a battleforce :( My original idea was to buy two battleforces, but that doesn't seem like such a good deal anymore. Buying a single battleforce makes no sense as you only get 5 Dire Avengers, and the only easy way to get 5 more is to buy ... another battleforce!

Why must the Eldar come in such bizarre package sizes?

EDIT:

It looks like I'm going to stick to my original plan of buying two battleforces. I can modify the Catapults to be Pistols by just trimming them down a bit, and then I can dig through my plethora of close combat weapons to stick in their other hands, and that'll be good enough. As for converting up the flamers, apparently I can get my hands on some Wraithlord bits and be set.

elvinltl
10-01-2010, 06:21
On the contrary, I can certainly see the appeal of a unit with three flame templates (2 Flamers and a Destructor-Lock) jumping out of a Wave Serpent.

And it cost a Bomb to field. (In terms of Point Cost) They will incinerate anything within range only to get pulverised the following turn at range or closecombat.

Reinholt
10-01-2010, 06:51
My problem with them is basically this:

They are a unit that often fails to finish the job. They will hop out, either burn the hell out of a single unit and die horribly in the return fire, or potentially shoot down a tank (more unreliable than I'd like thanks to BS3) and then get slaughtered in return.

At least for the way I play Eldar, I don't like having to sacrifice units (most of my units are either hammers or anvils), and when I do, I want to make it extremely annoying and painful for my opponent to kill them. I just don't think Storm Guardians are up to par for either of those tasks. They are bad at holding terrain. They are not the best "nuke" in the Eldar list (we have plenty of better options, starting with Dire Avengers and moving all the way up to truly vicious beatsticks like Fire Dragons). Granted, they are scoring, but given that they have to get close to do their job and anyone sneezing within 24" of them causes half of the squad to die, I'm not sure this is a benefit so much as a drawback that leads you to do stupid things with them more often than you otherwise would.

Bottom line: they are not as cheap as they should be, given their sub-par performance.

I mean, Storm Guardians with Fusion Guns are a whopping 2 points cheaper than Fire Dragons; if I told you that you could trade out most of your fire dragons for Imperial Guardsmen with a laspistol and close combat weapon, but you could keep two of them in the squad for 2 points less (though they lose special rules of all sorts and their BS4), would you take that trade?

I think you'd be a lunatic to do it.

jay court
10-01-2010, 13:03
Personally I would steer clear of Guardians & go with Dire Avengers. Better BS, I, Save, better gun.

Better to mix & match your Eldar army with S.Scorpions, Banshees,F.Dragons etc.

dariakus
10-01-2010, 14:40
I'm trying to build an Ulthwé force, so I need to find a way to make Guardians work, to whatever extent possible. I'm okay doing the Dire Avengers = Black Guardians "counts as", but I'd still like at least 1-2 units of real Guardians.

Thanks for all the advice so far!

shabbadoo
10-01-2010, 15:18
Storm Guardians can work. Set up as you described, they are an anti-infantry unit, so you may wish to arm their Wave Serpent to help them out in that role. Twin shuriken cannons will be fine. Opinions will undoubtedly vary, but I wouldn't upgrade the shuriken catapults and just keep the vehicle as cheap as possible. Besides, the twin shuriken catapults can fire as a defensive weapon when you move farther. The unit ought to come to 235 points for 11 Storm Guardians(two of which have flamers), a Warlock with Destructor, and a Wave Serpent as described above. That set-up is geared more towards hordes, with the Wave Serpent whittling down the enemy unit a bit before the Storm Guardians move in to finish it off. If you are going against a mechanized enemy you may want to put bright lances on the Wave Serpent to be able to crack the hard outer shell of that vehicle so that your Storm Guardians can then roast and assault what falls out. Or, consider arming the Wave Serpent with the versatile Eldar missile launcher which can take on medium to light vehicles and also has the ability to pin units. Your Storm Guardians will be less likely to be be shot up or counter-assaulted if nearby enemy units are pinned. To that end, you may wish to run your Storm Guardians in tandem with Rangers/Pathfinders.

As they are now, that is about the best you can hope for Storm Guardians with regards to them being effective. They can do some damage, but they are not optimally priced for what they can do. I expect that Storm Guardians won't stay quite as they are in the next incarnation of the Eldar codex(I wouldn't be surprised if they drop to 6 points each and come with assault grenades), so things may turn out better in the long run.

Also, because the general opinion of Storm Guardians is that they are such a horrible unit choice, you may see them get underestimated. That will likely change as soon as you get that optimal disembark-move-fire/roast-assault off for the first time. :D Then you will have a target that cannot be ignored, and that also may draw fire away from other units. People sometimes respond to things in crazy ways. Use it to your advantage when they do.

Thud
10-01-2010, 15:39
Firestorm tag-team:

10 Storm Guardians + Warlock w/ destructor
WS w/ twin shuricannon, spirit stones

5 Fire Dragons
WS w/ twin shuricannon, spirit stones

Total: 427 points

The Serpents can take out light vehicles, the Fire Dragons take out heavy vehicles and the Stormies support them if there's lots of infantry around whatever heavy tank you want gone.

Plus, against massive Ork mobs: Tank shock them into a nice cluster with the FD Serpent (preferably avoiding the Nob) and flame the crap outta them with your Stormies. :)

ghost271
10-01-2010, 21:47
I converted mine by using Guardian bodies, DA heads, and spears and shields from High Elves. Haven't painted them yet or used them since they got rid of the Black Guardians. I think if you use them in combination with DA, or FD, that they'll play nicely for those templates and helping out the other unit that will end up being assaulted.

LKHERO
10-01-2010, 22:28
Aren't they just Guardians painted Black?

MadHatter
10-01-2010, 22:29
I converted half of my two storm guardian squads. you can get the flamer/fusion from fire dragon extra bits. I traded with friends for extra bits, but i used exta arms and pistols from HB, DA, and if you want a totally unique look mix some fantasy bits into the unit.

landingshortly
11-01-2010, 03:04
storm guardians are awesome. i am playing them myself nowadays after a long period of avengers only. and i use them as previously mentioned with a destructor warlock and dual flamers in a serpent. i also run two squads of dragons and it's always nice to see following combo:

1.) serpents drive up to the enemy
2.) stormies and dragons hop out
3.) dragons pop enemy transport
4.) stormies and warlock flame
5.) stormies shoot

mostly everything here should have died by now ... but if that ain't enough, i still have the two twin-linked shuriken cannons from the serpent to do the job and my whole assault phase. do not underestimate 3 flamer templates, quite some shots followed by an assault.

plus: more players than you think underestimate guardians and tend to ignore them unless they have to kill em (mission objectives etc.) ...they can slip through easy as the opponent might be focussing on the dragons, prisms or whatever scary you field: a unit of stormies is just over 100 points. that's pretty good.

i bought two boxes and got 4 guardians bodies from the GW store. my local blackshirt gave them to me after asking nicely if he has some lying around. i converted some with wood elves heads, dire avenger swords, powerweapons and the like. but man, those models look cool. especially the wood elves heads rock. srsly.

druchii
11-01-2010, 22:42
Aren't they just Guardians painted Black?

Black Guardians, out of the Eye Of Terror codex were guardians painted black with white helmets (IE Ulthwe colors) for the Ulthwe Strike Force army.

But Storm Guardians are guardians with different weapon options, and a shuriken pistol and CCW. That's the problem the whole SP/CCW combo, since very few eldar units come with that configuration you're usually left forking out the (massive) money to buy the conversion boxes. Which are Direct Order only.

d

ps. Another config. I've found for the storm guardians is the Enhance+fusion guns+warlock with spear combo. Not nearly as popular as the usual flamer-y doom squad, but with ws4 and i5 they can be pretty nasty in combat (essentially they dump a round of shooting at you, or hope to blow up a tank) and then assault.

Ovechkin8
28-09-2010, 21:18
Hey guys first post and sorry to unearth an old thread but didn't want to make a new one or whatever.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents here.

I tried to find various conversion parts to make these guys (like dark elf corsair fb heads, shuriken pistols etc) but in the end was just too lazy to find all the parts I needed (and bits can add up when you purchase obscure ones).

So I went ahead and hooked 2 boxes of these guys up and grabbed another 4 guardian bodies.

As far as their use..well my friends and I usually dont play tournament style battles of 2000pts or whatever. We generally use 6000pt battles. This obviously makes a huge difference in what you can afford to field.

Personally for these guardians I just grab 10 with 2 fusion guns, a warlock (enhance) with a singing spear and Yriel. Yriel really makes them a bit of a scary unit and they can jump off a wave serpent fire 2 singing spears and 2 fusion guns at a transport to crack it open and then assault.

I always use guardians around an avatar and then another unit with Yriel. Just my take. Seems to work for me but who knows if its even feasible in smaller games since its really not a cheap unit after all is said and done.

With the 2 boxed sets i'll scoop up another with the 2 flamers/destructor that has been mentioned. Sounds interesting.

Plebian
30-09-2010, 08:20
Welcome to warseer :)

I personally love em, I have 2 squads, and have decided to convert my Banshees to make a third. I run em triple flamer, as I use FDs for AT.

Ovechkin8
01-10-2010, 19:22
Welcome to warseer :)

I personally love em, I have 2 squads, and have decided to convert my Banshees to make a third. I run em triple flamer, as I use FDs for AT.

Thanks. I've lurked on occassion.

Thats why I come to these forums to get other perspectives on things. The triple flamer option is something I didn't totally consider but I'm def gonna try it out.

Fable
01-10-2010, 21:38
Thanks. I've lurked on occassion.

Thats why I come to these forums to get other perspectives on things. The triple flamer option is something I didn't totally consider but I'm def gonna try it out.

I'm also a fan of the Shake and Bake squads (dual flamers with destructor packed in a serpent). If you need inspiration for how to pull off storm units you can spend some time in the modelling and painting forums as there are some very inspiring threads in there.

VendableFall
28-11-2010, 12:26
If you need inspiration for how to pull off storm units you can spend some time in the modelling and painting forums as there are some very inspiring threads in there.

where exactly? ive tried to search for storm guardians and get virtually nothing.

Meriwether
28-11-2010, 15:55
Thats why I come to these forums to get other perspectives on things. The triple flamer option is something I didn't totally consider but I'm def gonna try it out.

My record is 97 dead orks in a single turn of shooting. The primary players were four squads of Shake-and-Bakes, Yriel, and Eldrad. (Double-doom helped a lot. Yriel killed a 30-strong unit of shoota boyz by himself. The storm guardians with tank-shocking serpents killed most of the rest.)

Like most Eldar units, if you don't want them to be suicide squads, you have to play smart with them -- and as your scoring units, you *don't* want them to be suicide squads!