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StefDa
10-01-2010, 12:01
So, I got this large-ish Tomb Kings army yesterday and got to try it out for the first time vs my friend's Wood Elves. It was a great game, even though I lost, and I really enjoy Tomb Kings.

My list was like this:



Tomb King 271
- Flail
- Shield
- Armour of the Ages
- Golden Ankhra
- Vambraces of the Sun

Hierophant 160
- Hieratic Jar
- Cloak of the Dunes

Liche Priest 330
- 2x Dispel Scroll
- Casket of Souls

20 Skeleton Warriors (because I own these!) 250
- Full command group
- Spears, shields and light armour
- Banner of the Undying Legion (trick I read here)

2x 10 Skeletons 80/160
- Bows

3 Chariots 170
- Full command group

19 Tomb Guard (don't own any more yet, but I will increase to 24) 283
- Full command group
- War Banner

2x Tomb Scorpions 85/170

Screaming Skull Catapult 110
- Skulls of the Foe

4 Carrion

2.000 pts on the nose.


In hinsight, I:
+ Probably shouldn't have bothered with the flail on the King.
+ Should have made room for a naked Priest instead of the Carrion
+ Should have switched the banners between the Tomb Guard and Skeletons.

I'm not a complete rookie, as I have a good deal of XP in Fantasy, but I'm not a top player. I've prepared for the Tomb Kings army by reading what I could find on here, so I knew a few tricks, but didn't employ all of them.

What are your thoughts about the list? About what I should do, aside from levelling more in Tomb Kings?

Regards,
Steffen.

SevenSins
10-01-2010, 18:40
looks like a decent enough army this :) the carrion are among the better units in TK so I would advice against loosing them.
A balanced bit-of-everything army should do OK.

I think the king would be a stronger choice on a chariot, making him more mobile (I know you probably stuff him in the tomb guard)

Chariots don't need full command, banner at most.

lord opium
10-01-2010, 18:55
IMO you should drop the 250pt skeleton warrior unit and get a 3rd priest or a prince on chariot, great list so far though!

sirens_slave
10-01-2010, 19:34
+ Probably shouldn't have bothered with the flail on the King.
+ Should have made room for a naked Priest instead of the Carrion
+ Should have switched the banners between the Tomb Guard and Skeletons.

Flail on a king isn't bad at all - i'd prefer a GW if on foot or keep the flail if u pop him in a chariot. TBH I don't see any better loadout than the FoS or DoE. Both make him a mean SoB.

Whatever you do don't take the Carrion out!!! If you want to take something out take the casket...sadly it's now past it's best :( Anything with MR makes it cry and also the casket makes ur army static. The best use of it is as a distraction but at 270+ points (liche included) it's a points sink.

Carrion can be used in several ways. Warmachine hunters if you use them in 4's and 5's as they then outnumber the crew and causing fear making them a dangerous unit. Also in 4's and 5's you can use them to keep in range of your priests to make that extra move happen (string them out). Use them as mage hunters - get rid of those dispel dice. March blockers and redirecting units (if things get that bad). Whilst on the subject, scorpions fill the same roll but can also protect your war machines and are brilliant at playing with your opponents mind when using ICFB (good to see you have 2).

To me you put the correct banner on the skele's as they seem to fall over easier than TG. A warbanner seems a waste when you can have icon of rakaph (they then have a 12" threat range in any direction). Use the icon it makes me happy :D.

I'd agree with taking out the HW+S skele's they aren't that great. Sad but true. Make the bowmen a unit of 20+ with the BoUDL (my fav is 25 as they always outnumber and it's harder to get rid of a unit of 25. Even if the bowmen skele's are ranked up they can hit things on a hill or large targets.

As an army I find the tomb kings have a hard time dealing with multiple monsters and/or heavily armoured knights. A lot of people say chuck the SSC at them. I agree completely but always have a back up plan. You can't rely on one unit to do everything.

A good point of the TK army is that they are (IMO) a hammer and anvil army. Take the charge then flank and break. You don't have enough flankers as I only count 1 (chariots). You have no other units that are mobile and can take an opponents flank bonus out.

Hope this helps...

evisor
10-01-2010, 19:55
Yo Stefda.

Now I would recommend removing the casket. I could go into the whys but it usually turns into rather a lengthy affair. So let me know if you want to hear it. In short: its a crutch that lets people play a decent game with tomb kings. But hinders them in playing a great game. Now leveling is the key thing when learning tomb kings. Learning the dynamic of the list and mastering it is what makes tomb kings viable. So start the leveling with the basics, and add the casket later if you want to (I use it sometimes, but its not in my more competitive lists).

In addition: A casket is always inferior to another priest.

On your list:

Tomb king: Hes over protected. 3+ save in cc, 4+ ward and 5 wounds ? But hes where he belongs (in a unit). The flail of skulls + golden ankhara lets him deal with some of the heavy hitters as well as survive a lot of stuff. If you decide to run him as is, change the flail to a great weapon. Lets you have str 7 every turn. Youre probably striking last with an initiative of 2 the second turn of cc anyway, why do it at strength 5 ?

Its ok to play with whatever units you like. Especially if you only own these. Skeleton warriors are ok, but the 2 points upgrade into tomb guard is probably worth it. You could also consider turning them over for two units of 3 chariots.

On the subject of chariots: A unit of 3-4 chariots with a standard and war banner is really good.

But on the whole the list is pretty cool and should let you have a good time in a non-supercompetative environment.

evisor
10-01-2010, 19:59
Yeah. I probably posted this up while Sirens_Slave posted, so i'll just add:

1. Pretty much spot on. Good sollid advice.
2. Mr does not affect the casket. It's what gw calls a battlefield effect.

LKHERO
10-01-2010, 20:01
Pretty good list. Go with the comments above, but I would leave the Chariots naked.

lord opium
10-01-2010, 21:20
I would leave the Chariots naked.

or just have a standard

LKHERO
10-01-2010, 21:23
or just have a standard

Even with a Standard, they get slightly more expensive. If you plan on taking a TK or Price on Chariot, then by all means go for a Standard on whichever group they're riding with.. but other than that, 3x or 4x naked is the best way to do it.

They're not there to break units in combat by themselves, they're there to flank, deny ranks and outnumber via supporting charges so your opponent auto-breaks.

sirens_slave
10-01-2010, 23:55
They're not there to break units in combat by themselves, they're there to flank, deny ranks and outnumber via supporting charges so your opponent auto-breaks

Totally agree - also they should be flanking something that has been charged/received charge with a rank and file unit (therefore having a banner). Cant have two counting unfortunately :(

If they have a banner and die then thats a lot of VP for a cheap unit.


Yeah. I probably posted this up while Sirens_Slave posted, so i'll just add:

1. Pretty much spot on. Good sollid advice.
2. Mr does not affect the casket. It's what gw calls a battlefield effect.

Cheers evisor - sorry just popped that in about the MR as it says it in the errata for TK. I know its old but has GW released something to supercede this? Just so I can show it to my play group for reference.

Also must say that evisor has given solid advice too.


It’s ok to play with whatever units you like.

Couldnt agree more!!!

If you want to be successful with TK then make full advantage of using all of your units together as none of them by themselves are particularly strong (as is the way of the TK army :(

From your original list glad to see you've given your hiero the cloak and jar. Able to force through the last incantation if needed.

Also one last point and an insight into the way other TK generals play. I like to have 7 light cav with 3 priests hiding in there 1 with the staff, 1 with the jar and scroll (hiero) and finally the last with 2 scrolls. Its a massive mobile bunker that can do just about anything. Flank, protect, shoot, take out skirmishers and distribute your magic.

For my general I prefer a TK with DoE and the collar. This is due to the TK army not being able to take on monsters and knights but with this guy in a unit of TG it's pretty hard. He can take down a couple in the magic phase then another few in the combat phase he just loves taking down knights :D

evisor
11-01-2010, 01:02
I guess I was wrong about the magic resistance thing. The casket seems to have it's own faq in regards to mr. Not much reason to include it outside really big battles then.

You run a unit of 7 fast cav + 3 priests ? That's something I've never even heard of. Seems a bit risky ? But I guess they advance an inch behind something else most of the time.

I guess we'll just have to disagree about the war banner chariot unit. But they have a stellar track record in my service. But then again I have two other units that create synergy with it and the scorpions, or with the ranked infantery.

lord opium
11-01-2010, 10:09
If you plan on taking a TK or Price on Chariot, then by all means go for a Standard on whichever group they're riding with.

yeah thats how I run mine

StefDa
11-01-2010, 10:15
Hi boyos,

Thanks for all the replies, it poses a great for me! I've read everything and will take everything into consideration for my next game.

I would like to have at least two 'big' blocks (for receiving charges and the like) - Tomb Guard can play the role of the one, yes? What about normal Skeletons, are they viable in this role if they have light armour, shields and either hand weapons or spears?





Now I would recommend removing the casket. I could go into the why’s but it usually turns into rather a lengthy affair. So let me know if you want to hear it.

Please, at your leisure!

Cheers
Steffen.

EDIT: PS, I'm readin through the Tomb Kings Tactica thread as we speak. I know much of it is obsolete (the oldest material is almost five years old...) but it is funny to observe how muh the times change for our little hobby.

The Boy Harker
11-01-2010, 11:26
TK struggle unless they use all their character slots, so id definately get a third LP in there to make sure you outmanouvre your opponent.
Ive also been experimenting with a TP on chariot with flail of skulls, in a chariot unit with a standard of sacred eye - making him hit most things on a 2+ with str 6 causing 2 wounds per hit.... yey! makes it a lot easier to break a unit on the charge, which is a must for chariots, as they dont do so good in round two...
id up the carrion too at least 5, and probs throw in another chariot unit too if you can find the points (drop the CoS and the SW maybe?).

other than that, its a good list, though I agree with the earlier comment about swapping the flail on your King for a great weapon as your fielding him on foot. DoE is good, but I think its very pricy for what it does.

sirens_slave
11-01-2010, 13:32
TG are fantastic at this...in fact they are pretty good at doing most things :D

Skele's are also good at receiving the charge providing they are in big blocks. TBH Bowmen are considered slightly better all round troops as they can do something from turn 1 whereas HW&S are stuck around doing nothing...

As previously said take whatever you feel like taking :D

In reponse to the 7 LH and 3 priests it can be considered risky but they are stuck behind the TG and skele's. Pretty safe apart from cannons - then again if the priests are on their lonesome they are easier fodder. When used as a flanking unit I generally move them (reform and put the priests at the back or take them out of the unit and join them with the skele's or TG).

StefDa
13-01-2010, 12:51
So... The general concensus is a Tomb King on foot needs the Destroyer of Eternities and the Collar of Shapesh, and a King mounted in a chariot needs the Flail of Skulls and the Collar of Shapesh?

LKHERO
13-01-2010, 20:21
So... The general concensus is a Tomb King on foot needs the Destroyer of Eternities and the Collar of Shapesh, and a King mounted in a chariot needs the Flail of Skulls and the Collar of Shapesh?

Or a real 4+ ward. But yes.. that's the way to do it.

Maoriboy007
13-01-2010, 22:30
Cheers evisor - sorry just popped that in about the MR as it says it in the errata for TK. I know its old but has GW released something to supercede this? Just so I can show it to my play group for reference.



I guess I was wrong about the magic resistance thing. The casket seems to have it's own faq in regards to mr. Not much reason to include it outside really big battles then.

TheCasket FAQ answer has been superseded by two things.

1:The changes to the way MR works in the most recent edition of the BRB requiring the MR unit to be specifically targeted to gain any benefit.

2:A further description is described in the DE FAQ in regards to how Spell Targeting works, in that case its in regards to the ring of Hotek.

Generally new rules supercede the old but its best to discuss it with your group first.

As far as army construction, why do you have 3 units of skeletons? You only need the chariots and 2 units to make up your core. The general consensus is that a big block of skeletons with bows are better than the HW and shield version, after all, its only 3-4 more points to turn them into much better TG if you want another combat unit.

StefDa
14-01-2010, 07:15
Or a real 4+ ward. But yes.. that's the way to do it.

I would rather save that one for the Hierophant, but take a look at my list a little further down :)


As far as army construction, why do you have 3 units of skeletons? You only need the chariots and 2 units to make up your core. The general consensus is that a big block of skeletons with bows are better than the HW and shield version, after all, its only 3-4 more points to turn them into much better TG if you want another combat unit.

Well, I really like Skeletons, and they are kinda durable, what with the Banner of the Undying Legion and the Priests' Incantations of Summoning. The two small units were for shooting at two different targets. One of the small units got to take hold of a hill and fire in two ranks.
But I see your point, take a look at another army list I wrote:



TOMB KING - 306
+ Flail of Skulls, Collar of Shapesh, Vambraces of the Sun
+ Chariot
+ Light armour, shield
HIEROPHANT - 160
+ Cloak of the Dunes, Hieratic Jar
LICHE PRIEST 140
+ Dispel Scroll
LICHE PRIEST 140
+ Dispel Scroll
CHARACTERS TOTAL: 746
(This is a lot, isnt it??)

20 SKELETONS 195
+ Bows
+ Standard bearer, Banner of the Undying Legion
10 SKELETONS 80
+ Bows
4 CHARIOTS 260
+ Full command group
+ Icon of the Sacred Eye
CORE TOTAL: 535

2x TOMB SCORPIONS 170
19 TOMB GUARD 298
+ Full command group
+ Icon of Rakaph
SPECIAL TOTAL: 468

SCREAMING SKULL CATAPULT 110
+ Skulls of the Foe
GRAND TOTAL: 1859


Now, I have 141 points left to flesh out this list. I would like to take either a Casket of Souls, a Bone Giant (because I think the concept and the model are awesome - NOT because of game performance), or 3 Ushabti. What should I take, and how should I make room for it?

tank_metal
16-01-2010, 00:24
nice list the casket is a good choice because of the protection it provides your heirophant and people always usuallt save 2-3 dice to stop it allowing u more casting off before it and gives a -1 to all opposing casting atempts, as most of the time khemri struggle against magic heavy armies
btw khmeri always spend alot on characters as they are the main part of an army, whereas other armies do it for support ours keep the army there just drop 3 bowmen form ur 20 man unit exactly 2k and with a liche in when ur expecting the charge just form into 3 ranks for +3 CR including the banner
either that or drop the same three bowmen for 3 ushabti to protect the chariots flanks and hit hard at STR6 without great weapons :P