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View Full Version : Nasty Orc and Goblin units, opinions?



sugarwookie
10-01-2010, 19:14
I'm trying to come up with some ideas for making the list work better against some of the more recent books and could use some input from you.

What are your thoughts on a huge block of Night Goblins, by huge I mean between 50-100. Let's say you have 100. I know, that's a lot and maybe even overkill for what I'm thinking. My idea is this

100 NG's with C/SB/M and Netters and fanatics
NG big boss with Standard Bad Moon on stick making this unit Stubborn

My only idea for this unit is to tie up some of the nastier units of your opponent. I play a VC player quite alot and the thing about his army as well as a lot of the other armies are that they have one really big unit that is going to pummel you. Let's say you spread this unit out into two ranks, you don't need any of the combat res as you're not trying to win combat. You're goal is to stay on the table. For example, my VC player has one big unit of grave guard with his lord and a wight king. If you spread this unit of NG's out so long, it's going to be hard for them to avoid the unit. You might get multiple units in the "Net " as we'll call it. With that being said, your general should be close enough for your LD checks. With a little luck you should be fine and locked in with that many gobbos for quite some time.

I'm not a experienced OnG player, nor a seasoned WHFB player, so this might be a horrible tactic, but it seems like a cool way to take some of your opponents nastier units and tie them up for the game, pending some good LD rolls on the combat side.




Now, my next question to you would be what unit you would take to be your hammer. I was thinking of Gorbad, mainly because he gives you 18" LD and BSB to your army. I would probably stick him with a large unit of Boar Boys, maybe even savage BB's. If he made them Big'Uns they could take the banner that allows for the extra attack. I would probably screen the unit with a throw away unit of wold riders to soak up a turn or two of missile fire. This would be a nasty unit on the charge (Possibly flank), that your "Net" unit might have tied up.

I'm looking at a 3k list when I talk about this, so give it some thought and let me know what might and might not work about it?

Braad
10-01-2010, 19:44
The stubborn banner only makes night goblins in the unit stubborn, and the max leadership would be 8, and that's only if you take skarsnik in that unit, as 7 is the max you get on any other night gobbo. You can't use the generals leadership, or the leadership of any orc in the unit, as per the stubborn and the banner's rules.
Since it is a long, slow unit, your opponent will likely charge in several unit at once. If he manages to kill both skarsnik and your battle standard (who both need to be in the front line for this tactic) on that charge, all your goblins are cannon fodder, and then you got a lot of points running.

Boar boyz can already take a magic banner, they don't need to be big 'uns.

snottlebocket
10-01-2010, 19:51
Like braad said, it's not really a reliable stubborn. If you want to do a combat unit with nightgoblins, try a big unit with nets and add an orc warlord with the battle axe of the last waaagh.

Goblins will ensure ranks to max out the battle axe's potential and the nets will provide some defence for your orc lord. Just don't get flanked.

sugarwookie
10-01-2010, 20:38
I had forgotten about the stubborn unit using the LD of the unit and not the Lord, so you're right in that you'd have to use Skarsnik and only have an 8, or throw a warboss (Though he'd be very upset) in with them. I still think it might work to a degree considering what you've both added. I might try it just to satisfy my own curiosity. Am I mistaken that characters can move around in the unit from turn to turn as long as they're not in combat? My question is being asked because if you happened to encroach upon multiple units you might could switch the characters to the lesser of the two evils to keep things going.

Braad
11-01-2010, 16:59
Also, the banner only makes night goblin characters stubborn, so putting in an orc warboss doesn't make him stubborn. Then you have to use either the modified orc's leadership or unmodified goblin leadership, whichever is the highest.

Characters can move around, yes, even when the unit is in combat (but read the specific circumstances).

Storak
11-01-2010, 19:49
a one trick pony that might work is a big unit (though 60 should be enough...) of gobbos with shortbows (and possibly the poison banner).

place a big hill in the middle of the battle field, and deploy your unit behind it. then hope that your opponent falls for the trap and moves some units onto the hill....

best used against players who use large targets often as well...

sugarwookie
12-01-2010, 01:50
I like that storak. You might could even place the unit on the hill, giving more options for firing. I've thought about that spider banner. In a large unit of spider riders skirting through terrain and acting as fast cav, it could be a fun unit in a large number to play with.

I have another that I've been thinking of. You take a warboss with the axe that allows no save, or Gorbad who essentially has the same thing, cept he also has the strikes first rule. You also take a goblin boss with the item that allows no ward save (Don't have the book, so forgive me) and keep them in a large unit of cav, either boars, or goblin fast. If a Lord get's close enough to you, charge both out and into base with the character. You will hit with probably four attacks that allow no save, nor ward save. This would work great against a Thirster, or other beasties unless I'm wrong.

Urgat
12-01-2010, 04:56
a one trick pony that might work is a big unit (though 60 should be enough...) of gobbos with shortbows (and possibly the poison banner).

place a big hill in the middle of the battle field, and deploy your unit behind it. then hope that your opponent falls for the trap and moves some units onto the hill....

best used against players who use large targets often as well...
Yeah, that's a good tactics, I've downed various nasty large targets with that. The only problem is that it requires that you get a BSB, and that's one tough sacrifice to make just for that...

Slayerthane
13-01-2010, 00:26
I agree that a decent anvil would be a large unit of night goblins, say 40 or more with a Black Orc Boss thrown in for leadership and "Don't Stand for Dat Bover" to neutralize animosity. The large unit is to absorb wounds from the Black Orc restoring order if they fail animosity and still have enough for ranks and outnumber. Also get nets for added defense, and a nice surprise for any opponent with base strength of 3.

As for hammers, probably get a couple of orc chariots. They hit hard and are relatively cheap (for the O&G list anyways). Probably the most reliable hammer in the army are Giants with LD 10 and no animosity.

For artillery, load up on spear chuckas, another good buy for this list. Finally get 2 units of Night goblin archers for missile support, maybe 21 each with 2 fanatics for your fanatics delivery.

The problem with the Stubborn Standard is that you have to take a goblin BSB and aside from light armor, he doesn't have any other protection so he'll die too easily once in combat.

I'd also get a unit of 20 Big Uns with Standard of Mork? (the one that adds dispel dice equal to rank bonus of the unit), for additional magic protection. This is so you don't use up a special choice getting black orcs, just so you can get the standard.

2 goblin shamans mounted in chariots. The main reason for chariot mounts, is to increase the number of potential hammer units in the army, and reduce the chances of animosity failing when you need that chariot charge in the flank or rear to break a unit. Also, it makes the goblins a threat even outside the magic phase, and is a great way of picking your battles with them and keeping them out of harms way when you want. Maybe even give one shaman Tricksy Trinket (models in base to base can't take ward saves) as a nasty surprise when playing demons.

I haven't played this army (although I have toyed around with numerous lists) yet but I definitely think their is alot of potential to make a competitive list in a non OTT or WAAC gaming environment.

snottlebocket
13-01-2010, 06:28
Yeah, that's a good tactics, I've downed various nasty large targets with that. The only problem is that it requires that you get a BSB, and that's one tough sacrifice to make just for that...

Not really. A bsb is probably one of the first things any greenskin army needs. The spiderbanner is more of a stickler though.

BigbyWolf
13-01-2010, 12:12
Against VC and Daemons I've found that MSU of Savage Orcs (10/12 in each unit) with two Choppas to be quite effective. The frenzy means you don't have to worry failing that pesky fear test, although there's always animosity...

OnG can also put out a very effective army to counter magic-heavy VCs thanks to the serious amount of DD you can cram into the army (up to 11, depending on item choices).

Against High Elves anything with impact hits are good, and at 40 points a pop Pump Wagons are fantastic when you take that every model in the army has T3.

sugarwookie
13-01-2010, 15:20
All great points. One thing I've been thinking about is a couple of really large units of squig herds. I'm thinking four spear chuckas as two specials, but then two units of squigs at around 30 squigs. This would make the unit around 50 and at 300 points. When you look at the squig, 2 S5 attacks are very nasty. I know if you break them they disperse and it's a huge points sink if they run, but if used correctly I believe they would be hard to beat. I was thinking of two units shielded by two units of snots at around four bases, it should be enough to get them into combat?
I'm a little confused about the animosity rule and squigs, they're immune to psychology, but yet it's not listed as a unit that's immune to the animosity rule? Can anyone elaborate on this?

Urgat
13-01-2010, 15:24
Animosity is not psychology. Squigs (herds and hoppers alike) test for animosity like any regular goblin unit.

Slayerthane
13-01-2010, 18:32
What about the panic? If they're immune to psychology, aren't they also immune to panic?

Bladelord
13-01-2010, 18:38
Yes they are.