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Eternus
11-01-2010, 06:43
Having just celebrated a Birthday and finding myself in a position to do so, I have decided to make a concerted effort to wipe the smug grins off the faces of the Traitorous and Xenos loving scum I call my regular gaming opponents. One chap plays Eldar - very well unfortunately. Damned Harlequins!! - and has obtained a Revenant Titan, though I don't know what it's armament is, and another who is working on a heavily themed and converted Death Guard army has a Chaos Warhound in his collection.

Which of the Imperial Superheavy Tanks is best for making these spindle legged numpties think twice? I am leaning heavily towards the Shadowsword, or at least on of the variants you can make from the same kit, but wanted to tap the awsome power of this Forum before I make a decision.

Anyone want to give some advice?

Thanks.

Solar_Eclipse
11-01-2010, 06:45
I picked up a Shadowsword for my birthday too.

All my friends who bought it for me now regret it.

BOOM

Raven Down
11-01-2010, 06:46
Your Dealing with Titan's?

I'd suggest another Titan but since your looking for a SupHvy Tank I'd reccomend the Shadowsword.

Eternus
11-01-2010, 06:55
Thanks guys - that's what I like about Warseer - no messin quick responses. I was thinking the same, though I intend to make the kit up so that I can interchange the weapons depending on what I'm up against. Againt both the Revenant and the Warhound, I can afford the points with a Shadowsord for the two extra Sponsons as well, for an extra 2 Lascannons and sets of Linked Heavy Bolters.

I wasn't sure if a Main Gun with multiple shots but not Destroyer might have been a better bet, especially against the Revenant. I know I'm up against it with a Tank vs Titans, but I have a truck load of Imperial Heavy Weapons to back it up with as well.

In ther absence of a Storm Hammer, the Shadowsword is by far the coolest Imperial Superheavy.

Raven Down
11-01-2010, 07:01
I generally find the Destroyer rule better than multiple shots,Especially with the higher BS of Shadowswords

Chem-Dog
11-01-2010, 07:23
I celebrated my 30th on the day of the official release of Apocalypse, so I got 3 Baneblades. I suggest you do the same.
Each of the tanks can be upgraded to a "command" or "commissar" tank giving a bonus to you nearby infantry elements (the only IG SH that can do this.
The Baneblade main cannon is pretty impressive (S9, AP2, 10" blast) and it's linked to a co-axial Autocannon offset some of the usual innacuracy, there are also three TL-Heavy Bolters, two Lascannons and a Demolisher on board which can be bolster with an extra 2 TL-Heavy Bolters and Lascannons if you so desire (4 lascannons will help dent pretty much any SH).
Finally, there's the Steel Fury Baneblade formation which has a measure of protection from assault by enemy units and gives an excellent bonus against Superheavies.

Taking a single Anti titan tank is pointless, you'll either find it the target of some devious ploy like outflanking Firedragons or those Harlies with fusion pistols or an upclose Avatar visit before it can bring it's power to bear (remember botht he Revenant and Warhound are Agile and could easily skip out of your SS's arc of fire in a turn), and should you score a good hit early on you'll be stuck for targets in the latter part of the game.
The Baneblade gives you versatility, it's easily capable of eliminating vast swathes of enemy troops, with it's storm of Heavy Bolters (that seem more than twice as effective as regular IG HB shooting) backed up with a Demolisher and it's easily capable of engaging Heavy and Superheavy targets with its Battlecannon and two Lascannons (with the option for another two) S9 is more than adequate to deal with a Rev and will sting the Warhound enough to make it cautious.

Plus there's all the usual stuff about having three gorgeous models as the centre peice of your army and the happy knowledge that you've got 9 structure points of Tanky goodness for only ten quid more than a reaver and a helluva lot less than a warhound.

starlight
11-01-2010, 08:04
For the price of a Reaver, I'd get a Baneblade *Regiment*...:D Depending on where you buy, you can get between nine and eleven... ;)


Some people might prefer the FW versions over the cheaper plastic ones, but for sheer presence...well as the saying goes...quantity has a quality all of it's own... ;)

Eternus
11-01-2010, 08:40
Though a Superheavy tank squadron would be awsome, with the other purchases I plan on making a single tank is all I can fit in, so based on that I thought the Shadowsword would make a great centre piece for my army, and with interchangable weapons (the kit can make 6 variants) I can tailor from one battle to the next, so I may try a few different configurations and see what works best.

I will be adding the extra sponsons to whatever tank it is, as this will still make it about 100-150 cheaper than a scout titan and four Lascannons plus the main gun is nothing to be sniffed at. The thing I hate having to deal with time and again is having to deal with heavily armoured enemy units in cover which for Guard are difficult to shift, and a Destroyer weapon doesn't allow cover saves as well as getting +1 to damage vehicles, so I thought that would be a good idea.

Though I like the Baneblade, most people who are lucky enough to have a Superheavy Tank seem to have one, and I kinda wanted to be different, and the Shadowsword kit is much more versatile than the Baneblade kit.

MajorWesJanson
11-01-2010, 08:57
The Baneblade is the best All-around tank, great at taking out masses of infantry, heavy infantry, and transports, but it is a Jack of all Trades. The Shadowsword is definitely the tank killer of the family (though its Volcano cannon is only as powerful as one of the pair of turbolasers a warhound can carry). Strength D 5" is far better than Strength 9 10" at killing vehicles, bar groups of transports maybe. It auto-pens as long as any part of the template is over the target (half of D is D), ignores cover, and adds 1 to the damage table. Plus it is just as good at killing AV14 as it is AV10

MegaPope
11-01-2010, 09:37
One of your opponents will have a Chaos Warhound? Maybe thinking outside the box...the best way to wreck Imperial and Ork Titans/Superheavy walkers is in close combat. For just over the points cost of a Baneblade, you can get a decent sized squad of Grey Knight Terminators, who can have Thunder Hammers and Stormshields for free, led by a Grey Knight Hero with a Daemonhammer and Stormshield. You always hit rear armour in close combat, and because the Titan is possessed, it counts as a Daemonic target, so the hero's Daemonhammer will be striking first (initiative order, and he's I5). Even without doing any permanent damage, each hit that gets through will be inflicting Gun Crew Shaken results as a matter of course - he can't make all his Primary Weapon saves ;).

They can Deep Strike and are Fearless, and with that kind of invulnerable save can shrug off even hits by Destroyer weapons. You can also shell the surrounding area with impunity to stop them being held up by enemy infantry. To top it all, if they nail the Titan and are still alive, they're damned good to have around for crushing things like MCs and high toughness targets...and that's a Nurgle army! :p

Against the Revenant - it's lightly armoured by Titan standards, but has a good invulnerable save as long as it's mobile, so Destroyer weaponry is probably less effective (or necessary) against than a mass of conventional firepower. Also, both of its weapon fits are geared towards nailing individual hard targets. They're a pain to take down, but on the plus side you can autocannon them to death if you're desperate. The Grey Knight ploy wouldn't work with this because it's classed as a skimmer.

Now, you might think that I'm not advocating Super-Heavy tanks at all. Nonsense. I love the IG super-heavies, and definitely recommend that you still get one if you want one. You just have to be consious of what they can do, and what they can't. Shadowsword aside, you have to treat Imperial super-heavies like giant Leman Russes - good for smashing a mass of enemy targets at once, not so good for pinpoint destruction of single tough targets.

Overall, the only dedicated Titan hunter in the IG arsenal is, of course, the Shadowsword, but like everything else in the IG army, it doesn't work properly in isolation. Make sure you've got plenty of back-up to take down void shields (or get through holofields agains the Eldar). If you can find it, and have the other models you need to use it, there is a special formation involving at least one Shadowsword and a number of other normal tanks and Sentinels - any hits taken by the Sword can be palmed off onto the other tanks, which are basically there to provide ablative armour for the big beast to keep it going.

Sorry about the wall'o'text, but hope it helps :)

Eternus
11-01-2010, 09:51
One of your opponents will have a Chaos Warhound? Maybe thinking outside the box...the best way to wreck Imperial and Ork Titans/Superheavy walkers is in close combat. For just over the points cost of a Baneblade, you can get a decent sized squad of Grey Knight Terminators, who can have Thunder Hammers and Stormshields for free, led by a Grey Knight Hero with a Daemonhammer and Stormshield. You always hit rear armour in close combat, and because the Titan is possessed, it counts as a Daemonic target, so the hero's Daemonhammer will be striking first (initiative order, and he's I5). Even without doing any permanent damage, each hit that gets through will be inflicting Gun Crew Shaken results as a matter of course - he can't make all his Primary Weapon saves ;).

They can Deep Strike and are Fearless, and with that kind of invulnerable save can shrug off even hits by Destroyer weapons. You can also shell the surrounding area with impunity to stop them being held up by enemy infantry. To top it all, if they nail the Titan and are still alive, they're damned good to have around for crushing things like MCs and high toughness targets...and that's a Nurgle army! :p

Against the Revenant - it's lightly armoured by Titan standards, but has a good invulnerable save as long as it's mobile, so Destroyer weaponry is probably less effective (or necessary) against than a mass of conventional firepower. Also, both of its weapon fits are geared towards nailing individual hard targets. They're a pain to take down, but on the plus side you can autocannon them to death if you're desperate. The Grey Knight ploy wouldn't work with this because it's classed as a skimmer.

Now, you might think that I'm not advocating Super-Heavy tanks at all. Nonsense. I love the IG super-heavies, and definitely recommend that you still get one if you want one. You just have to be consious of what they can do, and what they can't. Shadowsword aside, you have to treat Imperial super-heavies like giant Leman Russes - good for smashing a mass of enemy targets at once, not so good for pinpoint destruction of single tough targets.

Overall, the only dedicated Titan hunter in the IG arsenal is, of course, the Shadowsword, but like everything else in the IG army, it doesn't work properly in isolation. Make sure you've got plenty of back-up to take down void shields (or get through holofields agains the Eldar). If you can find it, and have the other models you need to use it, there is a special formation involving at least one Shadowsword and a number of other normal tanks and Sentinels - any hits taken by the Sword can be palmed off onto the other tanks, which are basically there to provide ablative armour for the big beast to keep it going.

Sorry about the wall'o'text, but hope it helps :)

Thanks, it does help. I think if the model was to be a Shadowsword and nothing else, it would just be an expensive show piece, but I intend to make the main guns interchangable so I can make 5 of the 6 variants, so the model will be versatile. I will be able to support the Shadowsword with 4 variant Leman Russ Tanks, as well as multiple Lascannon Teams, so it's a bit of an indulgence really, but being a far more versatile model than the Baneblade, it won't get caught out as a one trick pony. When the enemy superheavies come to play though, the Volcano Cannon and 4 sponson Lascannons come to play too.

I wonder if I can set the model up to it can make the Stormlord as well, with it's Vulcan Mega Bolter? That would be evil against Meq or Horde armies.

There are great ways to damage super heavies, like melta weapons up close, with their extra dice penetration and AP1 (I have two of 4 Marine Dreads set up with Melta and Fist, perfect for taking on Super Heavies at close range and then in CC - if they survive the advance!

I just want a Super heavy tank to play with, and I have always liked the Shadowsword best, ever since the Battle Report in WD160 - the 1st issue I ever bought - which was a Space marine report between Eldar and Imperials - the Guard player had a company of Storm Hammers - why is there no Storm hammer model for 40K??? - and a company of Swords - they just sat back on First Fire and picked off skimmer tank after skimmer tank, plus knocked hell out of a Warlock Titan.

Just so cool!

Eldoriath
11-01-2010, 13:17
Shadowsword is your best bet to make those filthy xenos and chaos-damned be sorry they even thought about standing against the might of the emperor. Kills of superheavies like nothing since they don't require to roll for penetration or on the damage table. At avarage they take away 2 structure points, something it would take about 36 regular guardsman lascannons to do in the front in comparison.

Bunnahabhain
11-01-2010, 13:32
For dealing with 99% of Eldar stuff, I can't recommend Autocannons enough.

Eldar titans are fast, but fragile. Hydras have the range, and firepower to pull them down. Each hydra can expect a glance/pen a turn on it, and ignores one of its saves.

On subject, Baneblades. Not specifically anti- titan, but will do horrific damage to the rest of the army, and unsupported super heavies die far faster, to things like melta troops DS'ing inside shields, grey knight terminators, etc...

Hokiecow
11-01-2010, 13:55
I recommend more units with range guns then a super heavy. the Reverent Titan has a Holo Field and 4 large blast Str D weapons; it's a Super Heavy Killer!

Eternus
11-01-2010, 14:08
I recommend more units with range guns then a super heavy. the Reverent Titan has a Holo Field and 4 large blast Str D weapons; it's a Super Heavy Killer!

That's ok. While the Revenant is shooting hell out of my Shadowsword, for the same points the Shadowsword is shooting back at it with a Volcano Cannon and 4 Lascannons, and so the escorting Leman Russ Battle Tank and Vanquisher. Revenants are not cheap in points.

x-esiv-4c
11-01-2010, 14:11
Where are the rules for the tanks available from the shadowsword/stormlord kit?

Eternus
11-01-2010, 14:13
Where are the rules for the tanks available from the shadowsword/stormlord kit?

Here:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/articleCategory.jsp?communityArticleCatId=900006&articleCatId=900006&catId=cat60016a&section=

There's loads of stuff in the list, but go to Datasheets for the downloadable sheets for the Shadowsword variant models.

jasdc1
11-01-2010, 14:16
I have a shadowsword and a baneblade. The first game with the shadowsword I targeted my opponents main HQ squad of Wolves. Rolled a scatter of 3 inches. Couldn't have asked for a better roll. Insta killed the 6 members that were under the template and glanced the landraider they had just stepped out of. I love the shadowsword over the baneblade only because of the whole ignores cover part. Unfortunately they both died in one turn after his scouts came up behind me. Didn't know the Wolves have squads where everyman can have meltabombs. 6 meltabombs auto hitting is gonna screw anything. Lesson learned, always, always protect the armor.

x-esiv-4c
11-01-2010, 14:20
Thanks Eternus! I didn't think to check the GW site.

Promethius
11-01-2010, 14:45
I went for the Shadowsword personally, and recommend it. It's a great model and good in game terms also. I'm holding out on a titan until GW get around to making one in plastic!

Plastic Parody
11-01-2010, 15:08
a destroyer weapon is a bit wased on AV12 with a 4+ inv save. Baneblade will provide far more flexibility and isnt scuppered if its main gun is blown off.

Hokiecow
11-01-2010, 16:43
That's ok. While the Revenant is shooting hell out of my Shadowsword, for the same points the Shadowsword is shooting back at it with a Volcano Cannon and 4 Lascannons, and so the escorting Leman Russ Battle Tank and Vanquisher. Revenants are not cheap in points.

The problem with the Stormlord is the Vulcan Cannon is Str, of the shot that don't get rolled off will need 6's to glance.

You have a better show with Shadowsword. After you hit, you have a 50/50 chance of causing damage and you will cause damage if the hit is not rolled off.

Eternus
12-01-2010, 09:19
The problem with the Stormlord is the Vulcan Cannon is Str, of the shot that don't get rolled off will need 6's to glance.

You have a better show with Shadowsword. After you hit, you have a 50/50 chance of causing damage and you will cause damage if the hit is not rolled off.

And with +1 to the damage roll, a 2 in 3 chance of causing structural damage, and a 1 in 6 chance of causing multiple structural damage results.

Petay1985
12-01-2010, 12:21
Valdor Tank Hunter, because nothing says titan killer like an oversized neutron weapon :cool:

kaimarion
12-01-2010, 12:33
You always hit rear armour in close combat, and because the Titan is possessed, it counts as a Daemonic target, so the hero's Daemonhammer will be striking first (initiative order, and he's I5). Even without doing any permanent damage, each hit that gets through will be inflicting Gun Crew Shaken results as a matter of course - he can't make all his Primary Weapon saves ;).

It is a walker so you hit the front armour in CC, I think you will also have to double check that daemonic target thing and the warhound is immune to shaken/stunned results due to daemonic possession.


If you don't want to get into CC with a titan you can always try just to melta the thing to death.

Eternus
12-01-2010, 13:37
If you don't want to get into CC with a titan you can always try just to melta the thing to death.

With AP1 and bonus penetration dice at close range, melta weaponry has to be the tank buster of choice in 5th for anything that isn't Super Heavy.