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Grimstonefire
11-01-2010, 23:04
These are looking pretty good (so far...)

A lot closer to how I imagine Minotaurs should look.

More pics
http://www.sciborminiatures.com/en_,monstrous_news.php?id=857

Sclep
11-01-2010, 23:05
Now why couldn't anyone else do that?

Classius
11-01-2010, 23:16
looks more like a minotaur to me then GW's

Grimstonefire
11-01-2010, 23:23
For anyone who is interested there is a 54mm boar model that could make a good razorgor as well. I mention it's 54mm, because that means it will be big and expensive.

http://www.sciborminiatures.com/pow.php?absol=1&co=i/greens_54mm/big/Chaos_Dwarf_Boar_wip.jpg

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
11-01-2010, 23:26
Those minotaurs are amazing. What the heck is your problem, GW?

Lordy
11-01-2010, 23:30
It is rather dissapointing when a 1 man team can out do a multi million pound company. Shame on you GW.

Scriber has some great minies but Warpmaster on the Herdstone says his moulds are very poor, i wouldn't mind taking a gamble though if he can finish these aswell as he has started them.

Hrogoff the Destructor
11-01-2010, 23:35
I may be one of the few that likes GW's minotaurs, but these put those to shame!

Grimstonefire
11-01-2010, 23:37
I think the quality drops when he puts press moulded stuff on, as it leaves a lot of huge undercuts that need to be filled (he uses random blobs of greenstuff). This is a lot more obvious on the marines stuff because of the size of the plates of armour.

Hopefully he will keep these simple. As I said, they are looking ok so far... ;)

Any thread on Scibor is asking for trouble really, as there are few sculptors out there that generate so much venom. He may be fortunate in this case that the GW sculpters are 1000x worse!

Darnok
11-01-2010, 23:38
Sorry, I don't see any big improvement over the GW versions. Those models, while nice at first glance, are still way off on their proportions. The muscles are weird, and the heads are even worse than the GW ones, if that was possible. And they are still WIP, so hopefully there is room for improvement.

If you like them, buy them. But I got a sad feeling that this thread will devolve into senseless GW-bashing in no time.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
11-01-2010, 23:59
Sorry, I don't see any big improvement over the GW versions. Those models, while nice at first glance, are still way off on their proportions. The muscles are weird, and the heads are even worse than the GW ones, if that was possible. And they are still WIP, so hopefully there is room for improvement.

If you like them, buy them. But I got a sad feeling that this thread will devolve into senseless GW-bashing in no time.

How are the heads worse than the GW ones? Because they look like cows heads that are slightly deformed and evil looking, instead of covered in flabby skin? At least the musculature on these miniatures comes close to resembling something familiar, instead of just lumps of skin with grooves cut into it to look "ripped".

Just because people have a problem with a GW product does not mean that they don't like GW. If you are afraid of competition that could force GW into upping their own quality, then by all means, look away.

SimonL
12-01-2010, 00:04
The heads look awesome IMHO. Although I'd reserve judgement until I see the actual mass produced version.

Ultimate Life Form
12-01-2010, 00:06
Well, I'll say this... At least they have hooves. But their heads are a bit weird, just like the poses. Am I the only one who thinks these look like a rock band?

SimonL
12-01-2010, 00:18
Well, better a rock band than looking like the progeny of Mr. Universe and a Shar-pei...

Hicks
12-01-2010, 00:28
With a bit of armour and clothing and suitably big and impressive weapons I can see those turning out looking 100 times better than the GW ones.

Ultimate Life Form
12-01-2010, 00:43
Well, better a rock band than looking like the progeny of Mr. Universe and a Shar-pei...

Well, yeah. Here's what they'll look like when they're finished. Most likely. Probably. :D

No offense to whoever made these, I just couldn't pass up this awesome opportunity. :D Plus, they look better than GW's!

SimonL
12-01-2010, 00:48
Ahhh that's as awesome as Hellebore's rendition of Marneus Calgar riding Blargh-Rawr...well done.

Bard Harlock
12-01-2010, 01:02
ULF, you probably get tired of hearing this, but you're my hero.

ChaosVC
12-01-2010, 01:09
I simply love bull with axes, they make good sirlon steaks.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-01-2010, 01:52
Ultimate Life Form, you are hilarious. You win the Internets, and your prize has been shipped.

xragg
12-01-2010, 02:39
Tip of the hat, you actually entertained me there ULF.

The main thing that annoys me about the GW minos are the muscles, which reminds me more of The Thing then actual muscle tone. Whoever painted the GW minos did a great job of accentuating how bad muscle tones really are. These minos at least have appropriate looking muscle tone.

Nephilim of Sin
12-01-2010, 03:31
....the heads are even worse than the GW ones, if that was possible....

While I think that the GW ones suffer from a horrid HM paintjob, I really don't see where you are going here. The heads actually look really, really good, IMO.

DarkTerror
12-01-2010, 03:54
These models are HORRIBLE. Absolutely dreadful.

It's a rarity, but the GW ones look great compared to these minos

loveless
12-01-2010, 04:20
I...do not like these as of yet.

I will reserve judgment until they are complete.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-01-2010, 04:56
These models are HORRIBLE. Absolutely dreadful.

It's a rarity, but the GW ones look great compared to these minos

What? Can you please give me a couple of points as to why you think this? I really enjoy GW models, but the new minotaurs were so bad that I can't even begin to think where they can approach these in quality.

Urgat
12-01-2010, 05:51
Well, yeah. Here's what they'll look like when they're finished. Most likely. Probably. :D

No offense to whoever made these, I just couldn't pass up this awesome opportunity. :D Plus, they look better than GW's!

It's frightening, the poses do fit perfectly...

Well anyway, call me an oddball, but I still like the current GW minotaurs over the new GW ones or these ones, but I do like them all in different ways. I'm not difficult to please, I suppose.
And yes, you read right, I like, actually, I love the current metal minos, they look so brutal and bloodthirsty, I think their design was perfect for what they were (are, for now) supposed to represent. I always considered making a minotaur army, and thought that with the new plastics out, the old ones would go cheap on ebay and I'd finally have the opportunity to make that army cheap. Then of course there's the new book that won't allow that >>

silashand
12-01-2010, 06:22
I like these minos a lot. They look *VASTLY* more like an archetypal minotaur than those things GW created.

The Red Scourge
12-01-2010, 06:23
And their chaos dwarfs have big hats :D

Vermin-thing
12-01-2010, 06:32
Meh, I'm not fazed. I still love the new GW models (and the metal ones with the great weapons) As it has been said before I have no confidence in the quality of the end models. I've seen the horrors of the large marine models, the gaps, and low quality resin.

Nephilim of Sin
12-01-2010, 06:41
These models are HORRIBLE. Absolutely dreadful.

It's a rarity, but the GW ones look great compared to these minos

Yeah, I have to agree with the good Sergeant Uriel. Not liking them is one thing, but saying they are horrible when they [actually look like minotaurs I am having problems with....

Vermin-thing
12-01-2010, 06:44
These models are HORRIBLE. Absolutely dreadful.

It's a rarity, but the GW ones look great compared to these minos

I second this!

Nephilim of Sin
12-01-2010, 07:01
I second this!

Again, why? I don't mind the 'I don't like these because xxx', but I don't understand the 'IT'S HORRIBLE!!!! KILL IT!!!' type posts.....

Vermin-thing
12-01-2010, 07:22
Again, why? I don't mind the 'I don't like these because xxx', but I don't understand the 'IT'S HORRIBLE!!!! KILL IT!!!' type posts.....

In a nut shell GW has taken a small set off of the wall with the new minotaurs. I happen to really like the ogre range, and I would have made an army was it not for the rules. The style in which the GW minos are done are very similar to the ogres.

The Scibor ones are just another sculpt of the generic arch type.

I like creativity, although when given a not so good paint job...

I look forward to viewing the army books pictures of the models.

Another factor is that I know exactly what I'm getting when I buy from GW, but if I were to buy the Scibor minos I might as well be buying a pile of deformed metal.

I've seen the horrors.

[/END RANT]

Nephilim of Sin
12-01-2010, 07:28
See, that addresses the issues, at least!

And, if you like the Ogre models, there is always Chaos.......:D

Logan_uc
12-01-2010, 08:34
In a nut shell GW has taken a small set off of the wall with the new minotaurs. I happen to really like the ogre range, and I would have made an army was it not for the rules. The style in which the GW minos are done are very similar to the ogres.

The Scibor ones are just another sculpt of the generic arch type.

I like creativity, although when given a not so good paint job...

I look forward to viewing the army books pictures of the models.

Another factor is that I know exactly what I'm getting when I buy from GW, but if I were to buy the Scibor minos I might as well be buying a pile of deformed metal.

I've seen the horrors.

[/END RANT]

comparing the ogres to the new minos is a sin, ogres are very good models minos are just sub par in all ways.

I love creativity, but one thing is changing something for the better, one is changing for the worst, and the excuse of " the only problem is the paint job" isnt a very good one, if the model is decent, the paint job cant ruin that.

for knowing the quality of GW models its true (and them being over priced), like for ex the melted fingers, and bad fit of the components, as for this models you cant say if they will be good are bad in the end still you assume they will be a horror.

this lookes more like GW fanboyism than any thing else. the greens are good, more dynamic and plausible then any mino models that ive seen.

Kholdaimon
12-01-2010, 09:01
I like GW´s new mino´s, they look brutal! Sure, it is not realistic, but then again, realistic Minotaurs are impossible since they are a fantastical or mythological creature. The game is filled with non-realistic models, heroic humans with huge heads, hands and muscles, weapons that no person could lift, etc, etc. GW has stepped away from the normal Mino-view with the new models and I think they look brutal and killy.

The Razorgor however looks like a pig with Down Syndrome.

Ohw and I have the Dwarf Adventure Set from Scibor and allthough there are a few very tiny bubbles (which can be filled up with GS) they look good and delivery was fast...

Christiaan

Logan_uc
12-01-2010, 09:09
I like GW´s new mino´s, they look brutal! Sure, it is not realistic, but then again, realistic Minotaurs are impossible since they are a fantastical or mythological creature. The game is filled with non-realistic models, heroic humans with huge heads, hands and muscles, weapons that no person could lift, etc, etc. GW has stepped away from the normal Mino-view with the new models and I think they look brutal and killy.

The Razorgor however looks like a pig with Down Syndrome.

Ohw and I have the Dwarf Adventure Set from Scibor and allthough there are a few very tiny bubbles (which can be filled up with GS) they look good and delivery was fast...

Christiaan

one thing is looking real other is looking plausible.

Vermin-thing
12-01-2010, 09:14
comparing the ogres to the new minos is a sin, ogres are very good models minos are just sub par in all ways.

I love creativity, but one thing is changing something for the better, one is changing for the worst, and the excuse of " the only problem is the paint job" isnt a very good one, if the model is decent, the paint job cant ruin that.

for knowing the quality of GW models its true (and them being over priced), like for ex the melted fingers, and bad fit of the components, as for this models you cant say if they will be good are bad in the end still you assume they will be a horror.

this lookes more like GW fanboyism than any thing else. the greens are good, more dynamic and plausible then any mino models that ive seen.


I guess you haven't seen the GW minos on the sprue?

ChaosVC
12-01-2010, 09:20
GW make awesome Harwammer Bulls yes and Scibor makes awesome classical fantasy ones. to each his own I say. but I would definately buy GW ones simply because it is more and easily accessible (walk into shop and Kaching!). 1 for GW 0 to scibor I suppose when it comes to selling stuff.

Logan_uc
12-01-2010, 09:31
I guess you haven't seen the GW minos on the sprue?

no i havent, and your point is?, seeing somethig in a sprue is rarely a good indicator to what it is like after assembly (just see a bret sprue), seeing them assembled is mush better IMHO.

Tymell
12-01-2010, 09:36
In a nut shell GW has taken a small set off of the wall with the new minotaurs. I happen to really like the ogre range, and I would have made an army was it not for the rules. The style in which the GW minos are done are very similar to the ogres.

The Scibor ones are just another sculpt of the generic arch type.

That still doesn't make them "HORRIBLE" and "absolutely dreadful". It just, at worst, makes them boring.

Besides, if it's unfair to judge the GW minotaurs without seeing the sprue, surely it's equally unfair to judge these ones when they're WIP? (as it happens I don't think it's unfair to judge in either case, just pointing out what seems to be odd).

Anyway, my take: good work so far. Good timing considering how bad the new GW ones are. I can see Scibor doing well out of this ;)

Timk1111
12-01-2010, 10:29
no i havent, and your point is?, seeing somethig in a sprue is rarely a good indicator to what it is like after assembly (just see a bret sprue), seeing them assembled is mush better IMHO.

His point is that he has, and it changed his view on them altogether ;)

No I'm not psychic, it's in the rumour discussion :P

Anyway, one more vote to GW from me. I don't see these fitting into the Warhammer world since they're a little high fantasy. But I'm sure there's other games where they fit great :)

Sand
12-01-2010, 10:53
Anyway, one more vote to GW from me. I don't see these fitting into the Warhammer world since they're a little high fantasy. But I'm sure there's other games where they fit great :)
Weird. I think these ones look much less high fantasy than the GW ones. That is, they seem to have a much more realistic and bestial look.

But there's really no accounting for taste I suppose :)

The SkaerKrow
12-01-2010, 12:24
These are far and away superior to the excrement that GW churned out for their plastic minotaur release. If it turns out that I need more Minotaurs for my Beastmen army, I may well be giving Mr. Scibor a holler.

spevna
12-01-2010, 12:57
These one have far better musculature than the GW ones.

Firstly, they are rounded and natural looking in comparison to the linear and blocky GW ones

Secondly the muscles are more proportionate (one look at the GW minotaur legs will explain that).

As far as the poses are concerned, that is much more a matter of personal taste. I like the wild, flailing look of these ones. If others prefer the more static and upright poses then so be it.

Based purely on these pics, anyone who thinks these are in any way more poorly sculpted than the GW ones are on crack.

mrtn
12-01-2010, 13:06
These don't have weird teeth (who ever heard of a sabertooth cow?) and don't have fooves. I prefer these.

Dareus
12-01-2010, 13:09
Well, I like these a lot. The crappy GW-minotaurs made me turn away from a shiny new beastmen army (actually not only these and not only minis).
I especially like the surface of the faces. It really looks like short fur with underlying muscle. Unlike those on the GW-minos that basically look like large extremely knotty potatoes on top of ... roughly man-shaped potatoe sacks.
Now I hope that scibors aren't ruined by armour with too much pseudo-elven applications or other atrocities.

Justice
12-01-2010, 13:37
I've seen these posted about in various places, and I have to say that they do indeed look much better than the 'action figure' stylings of the new GW atrocities (I don't think I need to say why the GW Minos are bad, 90% of the internet have already done it).

This in it's self is odd, as a general rule of thumb most Scibor figs are, to be kind, below par. The vast discrepancy in quality of the putty work in Scibor's range has driven me to believe that 'He' is either a 'them' or he commissions some/all of his work from other sculptors and just credits it to himself. I don't mean this in a defamatory manner, just an observation...

spevna
12-01-2010, 13:44
True enough Justice. When his stuff is good its GOOD. When its bad its, well, you know.

Rolo Ramone
12-01-2010, 14:03
"Come on guys, our GW minotaurs are not bad, it´s just the paint! If you BUY them, you can see how good they are! They look terrible, but are amazing! "

Yeah sure...

Scibor´s Minotaurs are far better than GW. Even the AoW one is much better.

Radium
12-01-2010, 14:17
What? Can you please give me a couple of points as to why you think this? I really enjoy GW models, but the new minotaurs were so bad that I can't even begin to think where they can approach these in quality.

I'm genuinely curious now: why does someone have to explain why they think these are horrible but somehow it is perfectly acceptable for someone to say that these are 1000 times better than GW's version without any explanation?

spevna
12-01-2010, 14:28
I'm genuinely curious now: why does someone have to explain why they think these are horrible but somehow it is perfectly acceptable for someone to say that these are 1000 times better than GW's version without any explanation?

Eh? What are you talking about? LOTS of people have given LOTS of reasons why they don't like them.

Radium
12-01-2010, 14:35
True, but there are a couple of people who jumped on everyone NOT liking the model without specific reason. Later on people gave reasons why they did not like the models, but I've yet to see another reply from the first group of people.

JackBurton01
12-01-2010, 14:45
Personally, I'll put my money where my mouth is and say sold! As soon as these are done, I'm buying a set and then, I'm going over to AOW and picking up a better, cheaper, Doom bull! Then, I'm going over to black scorpion and buying the best pirate range ever made for mercs in warmachine!

spevna
12-01-2010, 14:47
True, but there are a couple of people who jumped on everyone NOT liking the model without specific reason. Later on people gave reasons why they did not like the models, but I've yet to see another reply from the first group of people.


Fair point Radium. It does seem like the bandwagon is rolling down the hill with a lot of little sycophants scurrying after it.

The SkaerKrow
12-01-2010, 14:58
Fair point Radium. It does seem like the bandwagon is rolling down the hill with a lot of little sycophants scurrying after it.No, the popular opinion is that GW's minotaurs are awful (and if you want a dissertation on their manifold flaws, go to pretty much any thread about the new Beastmen and check a couple of posts). If someone wants to challenge the opinion of the majority, they should expect someone to ask them to explain their point of view. It isn't a necessarily a challenge to that person's opinion, but rather an attempt to understand how their perception can be so different from the norm.

Or you can just resort to name calling, without adding anything constructive to the conversation. That works too. :rolleyes:

JackBurton01
12-01-2010, 14:59
I think the general hostility in the thread, is a suspicion that defenders of the GW minotaurs and attackers of scribor are actually GW employees.

spevna
12-01-2010, 15:05
No, the popular opinion is that GW's minotaurs are awful (and if you want a dissertation on their manifold flaws, go to pretty much any thread about the new Beastmen and check a couple of posts). If someone wants to challenge the opinion of the majority, they should expect someone to ask them to explain their point of view. It isn't a necessarily a challenge to that person's opinion, but rather an attempt to understand how their perception can be so different from the norm.

Or you can just resort to name calling, without adding anything constructive to the conversation. That works too.

Or you could go back to my previous posts in this thread (and the Beastman one you were talking about and obviously havent checked through) and see the several reasons I have given for why I don't like the GW sculpts and why I think the Scribor ones are better. See I can make flippant comments as well but at least mine are informed.

That works too.:rolleyes:

Urgat
12-01-2010, 15:30
Yeah, I have to agree with the good Sergeant Uriel. Not liking them is one thing, but saying they are horrible when they [actually look like minotaurs I am having problems with....

What you fail to see is that your opinion is just, well, an opinion. That how you want minotaurs to be, that's not how minotaurs are. Minautors are sorts of humanoid bulls. You cannot get any more accurate than that because 1) they don't exist and 2) the labyrinth story (the original, heh) doesn't exactly expand on how it looks like besides that it was a man with a bull head and a hammer. Then you got the paintings on greek pots and the like, and, well, it's just a man with a bull head. No particular bulk, no nothing, it's like a guy wearing a bull mask. I don't remember that well since I haven't read those books since high school, but I don't even think he was supposed to be much larger.
Well those Scibor minos ain't that any more than the GW ones. So even though I also have a hard time understanding the "horrible" (I mean the extreme comment) part, that comment is not any more invalid than your "those actually look like minautors".


No, the popular opinion is that GW's minotaurs are awful

You know what Einstein said about popular opinion? :p


Or you can just resort to name calling, without adding anything constructive to the conversation. That works too. :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's usually the mob that resorts to that, too ;)

The SkaerKrow
12-01-2010, 15:34
Denying that there is an established archetype for the fantasy Minotaur is ludicrous.

Urgat
12-01-2010, 16:07
I'm not, I'm saying it's a big burly man with a bull head. Now tell me how those scibor minis are much more that than the GW ones? That's what I'm arguing with, in Nephilim of Sin's post.
And, well, you know that now, for half the internet world, wether you like it or not, a minautor is actually called a tauren, right? So archetypes, yeah, right.

Tokamak
12-01-2010, 16:11
Well the GW versions are basically the rat ogre command group, a left-over release from Skaven. They forgot it a few months ago and try to solve the financial losses through this mistake like that.

JackBurton01
12-01-2010, 17:05
Well can I get a decent Tauran minature then?

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-01-2010, 17:43
I'm genuinely curious now: why does someone have to explain why they think these are horrible but somehow it is perfectly acceptable for someone to say that these are 1000 times better than GW's version without any explanation?

In the thread specifically devoted to the new Games Workshop Minotaurs, I posted exactly my problems with the new miniatures. Seeing as how this was a thread about the Scibor Minotaurs, I only posted in detail what I thought about these ones. Go find the Incoming! Beastmen thread to see exactly why I think the GW Minotaurs are awful.


Fair point Radium. It does seem like the bandwagon is rolling down the hill with a lot of little sycophants scurrying after it.

Nothing like making a snap judgment to seem like a jerk, eh?

JackBurton01
12-01-2010, 18:52
Like I said if they are a set; priced about the same as the GW ones, its a no brainer for me.

Radium
12-01-2010, 19:27
In the thread specifically devoted to the new Games Workshop Minotaurs, I posted exactly my problems with the new miniatures. Seeing as how this was a thread about the Scibor Minotaurs, I only posted in detail what I thought about these ones. Go find the Incoming! Beastmen thread to see exactly why I think the GW Minotaurs are awful.


I really don't care what people think of the models, I'm just curious why you and some others jump on everyone that dislikes Scibor's models and ask WHY they think so, yet, when someone says they like these, they do not need to give a reason for it. It just seems a bit weird, but that may as well have been a misinterpretation of the tone of the post in question.
But let's just leave it at that, I don't want to derail this any further.

And I quite like Scibor's models so far, but I fear he'll ruin them by adding lots of pressmolded stuff. The missing parts will really make or break these.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-01-2010, 19:41
I really don't care what people think of the models, I'm just curious why you and some others jump on everyone that dislikes Scibor's models and ask WHY they think so, yet, when someone says they like these, they do not need to give a reason for it. It just seems a bit weird, but that may as well have been a misinterpretation of the tone of the post in question.

What I'm saying is I HAVE said why I like these and why I dislike the GW ones. No one is jumping on bandwagons or whatever.

loveless
12-01-2010, 19:49
Hmm...I think I know what I dislike about Scibor's now.

They seem too realistic. I understand, this is a bizarre complaint, but it seems that they're too accurate to the general consensus. This, in turn, makes them boring from my perspective.

While the GW ones are not especially good (I'm being polite today), they are at least interesting to look at. They stand out.

I can't think of any Minotaur model I especially like. The new Doombull from GW shows promise. The Minotaur from AoW is acceptable. The closest thing I can think of in regards to "large beast with hooves and horns" are the satyrs from Privateer Press. They aren't really chaotic in appearance, however - and sort of have a grumpy look to them :p

http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/circle-orboros/warbeasts/gnarlhorn-satyr
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/circle-orboros/warbeasts/shadowhorn-satyr

Tokamak
12-01-2010, 19:54
Aye if something is too realistic it simply means it's devoid of any proper art direction.

AoW hits the minotaur on the head with having a distinct style without losing definition.
http://www.arena-deathmatch.com/forums/portal.php

Bard Harlock
12-01-2010, 19:54
Folks, you're arguing for specific, objective, quantification of dislikes on something completely subjective. Seriously, saying things like, "explain to me how these are worse than GW's minotaurs," doesn't work. I like Waterhouse and Dali. My wife likes Chagal and Van Gogh. Neither one of us is more right than the other.

Tokamak
12-01-2010, 20:03
Be glad that we finally got something to argue about, if it were for relativists we would have to shut up whenever someone argued that his blop of play-doh is better than the current models.

Gazak Blacktoof
12-01-2010, 20:04
These are along the directions I wold have prefered the GW ones to have taken, however I think there are some anatomical issues to be worked out.

The Avatars of War model remains my favourite of recent minotaur models, its a shame there aren't several variants for those who'd like a unit for an army instead of a single model for a hero.

Tokamak
12-01-2010, 20:11
The Avatars of War model remains my favourite of recent minotaur models, its a shame there aren't several variants for those who'd like a unit for an army instead of a single model for a hero.

Word, that's where scribor comes in, as come on, they're not that different besides the different detail scale.

I still wonder why GW did their best to make it as little bovine as possible.

Bard Harlock
12-01-2010, 20:21
Be glad that we finally got something to argue about, if it were for relativists we would have to shut up whenever someone argued that his blop of play-doh is better than the current models.

My post was a far cry from relativism. There are plenty of things one can quantify in Warhammer about which to argue. :) One could make the argument that beauty is not subjective at all. In fact, science has spent many a grant dollar trying to discover formulaic beauty, but I digress. I was merely hoping some people might see the futility of trying to make someone agree to what their definition of good looking is. Surely you know what opinions are like, who has them, and how they smell?

Having said all of that, after seeing the GW paint jobs and these Scibor miniatures and how rough they look (yes, I realize they are just unfinished greens) all I can say is that I am sure glad I play Lizardmen :p

Gunless Ganger
12-01-2010, 20:25
I saw the picture and instantly knew I liked these models a lot.

If the plastic minotaur set had looked this good I would be starting a new Beasts army.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-01-2010, 20:28
Look, I'm not saying people CAN'T like the Games Workshop ones, or even that people SHOULDN'T like them. I just was just asking WHY they like them, and I think that's a fair thing to ask. I don't see why it's such a terrible question to ask a person what it is in particular that makes them enjoy a certain model.

I like these Scibor minotaurs because they look more realistic. The musculature looks closer to human musculature (and they are human-bull hybrids, after all), the bovine heads look excellent, and they are not sticking their tongues out (not that the new GW ones are, but the old ones certainly did. Try this for me, GW sculptors: look into a mirror, then scream as if you were charging into battle. Is your tongue out? Probably not, unless you are Gene Simmons or otherwise have a freakishly long tongue. STOP MAKING THINGS SCREAM/YELL/WHATEVER WITH THEIR TONGUES OUT.).

Anyway, I'm glad people like the GW Minotaurs, because then the money they pay for them can be used to fund other projects that I'll probably enjoy a lot more.

Urgat
12-01-2010, 20:32
The Avatars of War model remains my favourite of recent minotaur models, its a shame there aren't several variants for those who'd like a unit for an army instead of a single model for a hero.

Yeah, would be nice if he did variants. But I guess hes doesn't really want to, considering how the focus of his game is on heroes. Still, it seems odd, he's obviously targeting the warhammer people, it's he's standing in an odd equilibrium on some edge...


Folks, you're arguing for specific, objective, quantification of dislikes on something completely subjective. Seriously, saying things like, "explain to me how these are worse than GW's minotaurs," doesn't work. I like Waterhouse and Dali. My wife likes Chagal and Van Gogh. Neither one of us is more right than the other.

Be careful, I tried to defend just that point of view on the previous page and got jumped too. Seems that here the majority is always right.

Radium
12-01-2010, 20:33
Look, I'm not saying people CAN'T like the Games Workshop ones, or even that people SHOULDN'T like them. I just was just asking WHY they like them, and I think that's a fair thing to ask. I don't see why it's such a terrible question to ask a person what it is in particular that makes them enjoy a certain model.


And you have every right to ask this. However, the tone of your post made it seem more like: "You're wrong, how can you not like these? Explain yourself!". This is of course an exaggeration, but I hope you get my point.

But you have finally answered my original question! So, thanks for that!

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-01-2010, 20:59
And you have every right to ask this. However, the tone of your post made it seem more like: "You're wrong, how can you not like these? Explain yourself!". This is of course an exaggeration, but I hope you get my point.

But you have finally answered my original question! So, thanks for that!

I'm sorry if that was my tone, it mostly stemmed form the fact that you seemed so utterly disgusted by these minotaurs. I can understand not liking their style or whatever, but the level of distaste in your comments made me curious as to what exactly it was that made them so hideous in your eyes.

Gazak Blacktoof
12-01-2010, 21:59
Word, that's where scribor comes in, as come on, they're not that different besides the different detail scale.

I think the scribor models aren't as well designed. It seems to me that they are almost cut in half by their little posing pouches. It appears that perhaps they weren't sculpted after all the muscles, as they should have been.

The musculature around the gut also doesn't look quite right.


They are a work in progress though so these issues may get ironed out- or else it might just be me.

spevna
12-01-2010, 22:17
Nothing like making a snap judgment to seem like a jerk, eh?

What exactly do you mean by this comment?

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
12-01-2010, 22:47
What exactly do you mean by this comment?

You called me a little sycophant, based upon nothing but a snap judgment. After you did that, you looked like a jerk to me.

Hope that helps, enjoy the forums.

spevna
12-01-2010, 23:15
You called me a little sycophant, based upon nothing but a snap judgment. After you did that, you looked like a jerk to me.

wow. Take a seat, take a deep breath, put your handbag away and calm down darling. I agreed with Radium that some sycophants (see the 's'? plural sweety, not anyone individual) were jumping on the bandwagon without having valid reasons for disliking them. You have stated your valid reasons for disliking so why would you think I was talking about you? If you took the time to read back over previous posts I have made you would see that we actually agree.

You called me a jerk based on nothing but your inability to read my posts correctly, After you did that you looked like a bit of a little girl having a hissy fit to me.


Enjoy the forum dear.

Grimstonefire
12-01-2010, 23:34
I have to say this thread so far has been really strange. Most of it is;

'you're questioning my question with a question, then assuming you know what my answer is, and posing another question which I have already answered, except that was in another thread but I have also stated this above'.

Enough already guys. :)

Some will dislike Scibors models, some will think they are ok (but never intend to buy them), some will love them.

Considering the tidal wave of hatred over the GW ones, it would be nice if Scibor finished them asap so we can judge them as finished models and not as WIP.

SilentCivilian
12-01-2010, 23:41
While not a big fan of the GW ones i would prob buy them over these. From what i see so far i do prefer the look of Scibor`s sculpts but people complaining about the quality of the minis puts me off. If he can get the quality of the final model right then these could prove to be a no brainer for me but will wait and see. I dont have a huge amount to spend on models anyway so cant afford to throw my cash away on an inferior product.
(please note this last comment is an opinion not a be all and end all statment ;))

spevna
12-01-2010, 23:43
Grimstonefire is right. I will hold my hand up an say sorry for being part of the strangeness.

JackBurton01
13-01-2010, 00:57
I'm not apologizing, I want to give the thread the longest life possible because I want as many people as possible to see these minatures. I really think it may be time to start playing GW games without GW minatures. The number of GW sanctioned tournaments is at an end. So really why shouldn't we use cheaper better minatures in our armies.

Urgat
13-01-2010, 02:27
Yeah, I heard you Grimstonefire, I'm guilty of taking part in all that petty bickering, so I'll humbly step back and shut my trap regarding these arguments from now on.
Now that that has been said, I got a question slightly related to the topic. With the new GW minotaurs, these ones, the AOW one, etc (there seems to be various bandwagons regarding minos lol, I'm wairting for Gamezone to announce their own soon :p), the current GW metal minos are bound to be found on ebay. Now I have bought loads of minis off ebay, but almost exclusively long out od production goblins so I wouldn't know: do models that have just been replaced usually go for cheaper, or for more expensive?

Killshot
13-01-2010, 03:06
I'll wait until they are completed before I make a judgement on them. Right now they look alright, but a bit rough around the edges. I've read reviews about the quality (or lack there of) of the finished miniatures from this company and seen a few complaints about them on this thread. If they come out alright, I'll wait for someone else to buy them and report on the quality before I purchase any.

loveless
13-01-2010, 03:36
I'm not apologizing, I want to give the thread the longest life possible because I want as many people as possible to see these minatures. I really think it may be time to start playing GW games without GW minatures. The number of GW sanctioned tournaments is at an end. So really why shouldn't we use cheaper better minatures in our armies.

My comment on this concept (not necessarily to you in particular, Jack):

If you're going to scrap something of GW's - scrap their rules. In all honesty, their miniatures are better than the game they're made for. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of other well-known rules systems out there. Hopefully 8th edition will offer salvation, but Fantasy is currently quite dull.

In other words - if you're going to switch to different miniatures for an entire army, let's go find different rules as well. Might as well improve everything in one go ;)

ChaosVC
13-01-2010, 03:41
The Scibor version is not done yet... so many funny people.

NotFarnaby
13-01-2010, 14:54
You know, it's funny.

Before I saw the scibor minos, I was really, really trying to *force* myself to like the GW minotaurs. Strange, right? But I wanted to start beasts, and minos would be essential to any beastmen army I built. There are almost no good minotaur models on the market and so I knew I'd probably have to buy teh GW ones. Cognitive dissonance I guess. I knew I'd have to buy teh GW crap, so I convinced myself I liked them. I even argued with other people who said that they didn't.

Then the Scibor pictures showed up, and I realized that I had a choice as to which minos I could buy, and I finally allowed myself to see teh GW minos as the pieces of crap that they are. I think I know why some people still claim to prefer the GW models, which are, in every conceivable way, an inferior sculpt. I think it's cognitive dissonance.

One point that I don't think if up for debate: there are *not nearly* enough 28mm minotaur models out there, and none, as far as I know, that are set up as multi-part plastic regiments, apart from the GW knobrot.

Bard Harlock
13-01-2010, 15:53
I think it's cognitive dissonance.

Wow. Just wow. You have a problem with other peoples' subjective opinions about artwork and then rationalize it away by claiming it is cognitive dissonance. I believe you may want to investigate another psychological term - projection. Physician, heal thyself. ;)

Urgat
13-01-2010, 15:56
Then the Scibor pictures showed up, and I realized that I had a choice as to which minos I could buy, and I finally allowed myself to see teh GW minos as the pieces of crap that they are. I think I know why some people still claim to prefer the GW models, which are, in every conceivable way, an inferior sculpt. I think it's cognitive dissonance.

Or maybe they do like the GW models better?

Darnok
13-01-2010, 17:13
I think I know why some people still claim to prefer the GW models, which are, in every conceivable way, an inferior sculpt. I think it's cognitive dissonance.

Or you could just agree to disagree with the people not sharing your opinion. Simply accept that there are people who can live quite well with the GW models. For them it's no "claim", it's the truth.

snottlebocket
13-01-2010, 17:51
Looks like Scibor could school GW on what a minotaur actually is.

Darnok
13-01-2010, 17:58
Looks like Scibor could school GW on what a minotaur actually is.

If, in return, GW school Scibor on proper modelling apart from press-molding, it is win-win for everybody. Not a bad idea indeed. ;)

Lijacote
13-01-2010, 18:23
People, learning new tricks?

Preposterous.

snottlebocket
13-01-2010, 18:37
If, in return, GW school Scibor on proper modelling apart from press-molding, it is win-win for everybody. Not a bad idea indeed. ;)

Hey, whatever his flaws, he did better work from his bedroom than GW does from the middle of their business empire.

Darnok
13-01-2010, 19:12
Hey, whatever his flaws, he did better work from his bedroom than GW does from the middle of their business empire.

That remains to be a matter of personal opinion. I do not find him to do better than GW. But of course, whoever likes his work, should buy it.

Bard Harlock
13-01-2010, 19:52
You might want to actually look the term up before you misuse it again.

LOL, I am quite familiar with the term. I didn't misuse it in the least, I assure you. :)

As for the dog **** hyperbole, well, it is just hyperbole. The fact is neither you nor anyone else is the taste police for the rest of the forum. Arguing subjectivity will get you nowhere. And, attempted armchair diagnoses of everyone with a dissenting opinion is just asinine, demonstrates a disregard of respect and a complete lack of comprehension when it comes to what is opinion.

I am glad you find the Scibor models appealing. I really believe everyone should play what they like. I also believe if they don't like it, they should make their opinion heard, as that is how we affect change. Blanket accusations of lack of taste, rationalization, and cognitive dissonance however, have no place in a discussion such as this.

75hastings69
13-01-2010, 20:07
Well, yeah. Here's what they'll look like when they're finished. Most likely. Probably. :D

No offense to whoever made these, I just couldn't pass up this awesome opportunity. :D Plus, they look better than GW's!

That was excellent and genuinely made me LOL!!!

Even if they do finish up like that they'll still be better than the recent abominations by GW.

These look excellent so far and I'll pick them up for sure.

I love that GW released those dismal minos and now loads of other companies will reap the rewards.

PTS
13-01-2010, 20:52
I love that GW released those dismal minos and now loads of other companies will reap the rewards.

I agree, but you can't play in a GW store or GW run tournaments without their miniatures.

Or CAN you? :shifty:

Ultimate Life Form
13-01-2010, 20:57
That was excellent and genuinely made me LOL!!!


Well, I'm glad I could repay your Pumbagor then!

If you want to thank me, you can PM me some rumors! ;)


ULF, you probably get tired of hearing this, but you're my hero.

Nah, I never get tired of this.

Well, as for the Minos, I think it's quite pointless arguing personal taste is it not? We should be glad there are different interpretations of the theme so everyone is catered for. The pricing question though is an entirely different matter altogether. And I too would take the Mino Band over GW's mutated blobs of fat and muscle any day.

Plagueridden
14-01-2010, 02:25
I will pick them up as well, ty Scibor.

lord marcus
14-01-2010, 02:43
the only thing i have to say is that if his moulds are poor he could talk to ed from trollsforged to get some advice.

Ultimate Life Form
14-01-2010, 02:47
the only thing i have to say is that if his moulds are poor he could talk to ed from trollsforged to get some advice.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... :eyebrows:

There is a thing called business competition. Ever heard of it? Why don't you ask GW for advice, they make the best models (most of the time at least)?

DaBrode
14-01-2010, 03:51
Thank you Scibor. Thank you for finally getting it right. My ultimate minotaur hangup is fangs. EVERYONE uses fangs. Blunt cow teeth CAN look just as viscious and menacing as fangs and they lend to the idea of a minotaur so much better. You've proved it!

loveless
14-01-2010, 05:25
Oddly enough, I've been hearing good things about the GW minotaurs by people who have seen them in the flesh. I'm wishing we'd get some pics of them other than the GW official ones.

I've heard horror stories of large miniatures from Scibor. The evil dwarfs always looked good in the flesh, but the others...less so. They're not exactly the cheapest things, either - though neither is GW.

He should finish them up so I can pass judgment :p

Vermin-thing
14-01-2010, 06:43
The thing is that if the end product is less than desirable, I'd rather invest in the more reliable companies, like GW, and mantic. I'd like to hear about some of the products bought from Scibor, and the level of the poor quality.

Pokpoko
14-01-2010, 10:05
I generally dislike Scibor's models, as they look..well,lazy. Sculpt a rought shape, and stick as much press-moulded crap on it as possible to conceal the shape. But these aren't half bad, which means he CAN sculpt well if he puts his mind to it!

Anyway, as I said, these don't look bad at all, even as WIPs. Not, say, Otherworld's classic Mino good,but decent. And way better (in MY OPINION) than the dreadful caca-demons with elephantiasis.

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
14-01-2010, 20:53
I really like those minotaurs they look better then those from Gw.

Cheers,
G

dodicula
18-01-2010, 07:27
Big Bad GW owned by 1 dude on 3 days work. So much for their CEO's statement about GW'$ "Premium" line of miniatures. Bring on the IP trolls, maybe GWs Lawyers can make up for for their lack of decent sculptors with cease and desist letters.

StefDa
20-01-2010, 09:39
When are these little beauties coming out?

Grimstonefire
10-02-2010, 22:05
Update time

http://www.sciborminiatures.com/i/2010/big/minotaurs_01.jpg

Seville
10-02-2010, 23:22
These are far and away superior to the excrement that GW churned out for their plastic minotaur release.

In your opinion.


(I don't think I need to say why the GW Minos are bad, 90% of the internet have already done it).


I love how on Warseer "me and a handful of other really loud whiners" becomes "90% of the internet".


Eh? What are you talking about? LOTS of people have given LOTS of reasons why they don't like them.

And lots of people have given lots of reasons why they do.



Or you can just resort to name calling, without adding anything constructive to the conversation. That works too. :rolleyes:

Isn't it a touch hypocritical to use lazy rhetoric to criticize lazy rhetoric?


I think the general hostility in the thread, is a suspicion that defenders of the GW minotaurs and attackers of scribor are actually GW employees.

Right, because anyone who goes against the herd mentality of "GW SUCKS!!" on Warseer must be a GW employee.

I personally prefer the GW minotaurs to these Scibor minis. I like the Fantastic, baroque look GW has gone for. These look like they belong in the Reaper line or something. They don't fit in well with the aesthetic of GW's other products.

Gazak Blacktoof
10-02-2010, 23:29
I like 'em. I've got a few issues with them, but they're much better than GW's recent offering. I think the manes make them look a bit horsey and also remind me of rackham's confrontation models, but that's easy to fix. I think my major concern with the manes is that they are too upright, like they've put gel in them.

I hope he keeps the details as simple as they are now.

Is there a shop in the UK that sells scribor's stuff?

Darnok
11-02-2010, 00:17
Update time

http://www.sciborminiatures.com/i/2010/big/minotaurs_01.jpg

Thanks for sharing. I remain doubtful. These are weird in a way I can't really explain. What I can explain is: I just don't like them, and the work spent on them so far hasn't changed that. The end result most likely won't too.

I still prefer the GW versions. By far.

Vermin-thing
11-02-2010, 05:29
Still don't like them. There weirdly proportioned, and the legs are just bad. After looking around at his other "stuff" I wont be buying these even if they look good.

Off to buy my GW minotaurs tomorrow...

BTW I think the fooves look better than the hooves.

Pacorko
11-02-2010, 06:23
I really think it may be time to start playing GW games without GW minatures.

Only now? Hmm, well. Welcome to a really big club, mate.


The number of GW sanctioned tournaments is at an end. So really why shouldn't we use cheaper better minatures in our armies.

I don't really know if the "ultra" official tourney circuit will dry up for good on those who seemed hooked on it, but the choice has always been there.

Now, as to the "cheaper" minis statement. Yes, some are but the difference in the price tags is not that noticeable. Blame on the idiocy of "what the market will bear" and those who happily pay whatever prices is ordered for the newest and "more killy" model.

The only really good thing I see here is hat there are great alternatives, and that the number of indy sculptors who market their wares is growing and getting better all the time.

The SkaerKrow
11-02-2010, 12:27
These look excellent. They've been the talk of my FLGS.

Col. Dash
11-02-2010, 12:51
Awesome! I much prefer these to GW's Sharpei-ataurs. I wont go so far as to say they are perfect but they are much better looking overall. Just to appease the naysayers and GW fanboys.
Problems: I think the one on the right is fat and not near as toned as he should be. Not a big fan of the shoulder piece, never liked faces on pauldrons defeats the purpose and gives places for weapons to stick. I like how dynamic they look, but will the final ones be all three over and over or will there be room for customization? Just the same three poses over and over would get old quickly.

Pros: The muscles that are there look great. I like all the heads, they look like minotaurs and not some cow/tyrannid crossbreed like GW's. The armored head looks great.

I am hoping for a fully armored sculpt with a wicked looking great weapon and not-goofy- looking pauldrons.

Plagueridden
11-02-2010, 13:11
Scibor is getting some interesting minotaurs.
will get some for sure.

Gazak Blacktoof
11-02-2010, 23:46
The armored head looks great.

I'm in two minds about the armoured head. On the one hand it looks good in its own right, however I think that the unarmoured faces are jsut so characterful that it seems a shame to cover them up.

It does add variety.

75hastings69
12-02-2010, 19:46
I have to say that Scribor has nailed proper looking chain mail on thos minos, doesn't look like the usual hole pushed in and dragged to mis-shape - and repeat that everyone else does, it looks like real mail, I'll be interested to see how it casts up.

Gazak Blacktoof
12-02-2010, 23:39
Yeah I noticed that too. I wonder if he'll stick a tutorial up.

Cherrystone
12-02-2010, 23:47
Any ideas's when these be ready to purchase?

Lanparth
14-02-2010, 07:09
You know. I like them.

I still don't mind the GW ones, so uhm. I don't... care?

Hjiryon
14-02-2010, 13:14
That remains to be a matter of personal opinion. I do not find him to do better than GW. But of course, whoever likes his work, should buy it.

Let's give a reasonable definition of what "good work" means here. My suggestion is:
These miniatures are produced with sales in mind. Art being what it is (quite subjective), the best indicator of success on part of the modeller is how well his models are received - to some degree measurable in how well they sell.

I think it's fair to say that, when a major part of the otherwise GW-enthusiastic crowd are planning to look for alternate and superior miniatures, then the new minotaurs have failed - however appealing they may be to a few individuals here and there.

All of that said: I don't see what all the rage is with these from Scibor. I honestly don't like the new GW minos at all, but these are not done yet and from what we've seen so far. I'm not convinced these are the best alternates I could get.

Were I looking to pick up a single minotaur unit for a beastman army, I might go for:
http://www.ludikbazar.com/product_info.php?products_id=45234
http://www.frothersunite.com/files/frotherbaz/armyimages/bacr0101.jpg
http://picasaweb.google.com.tw/james.yah/SwDVyH#5053311956740575314


With all of the above, I know what I'll get, and personally, I find them superior to GW sculpts. Just my personal oppinion. I may be biased, though, as I find myself preferring the sculpt found here: (http://www.ludikbazar.com/product_info.php?products_id=38619) to GWs current minotaurs - at least this one is funny!

Darnok
14-02-2010, 14:57
I think it's fair to say that, when a major part of the otherwise GW-enthusiastic crowd are planning to look for alternate and superior miniatures, then the new minotaurs have failed - however appealing they may be to a few individuals here and there.

Your whole argument would work if, and only if, you knew for sure who acts the way he/she posts here on the interwebs - and how sales are going for all the people who don't say a word at all. Note that it is a vocal minority, you just should not judge the majority by what you read here.

And in the end it doesn't really matter. Buy the models you like, or don't. It is up to you, it is as simple as that.

Luthor
14-02-2010, 17:00
There is no use in arguing, some people prefer GW models over any third-party sculpt regardless of how much better it is. :p

Evidence:

Beastmen Mino-Things > Scribor Minotaurs
Plastic Orc Warboss Kit > AoW Orc Lord on Boar :confused:

Edit: And GW isn't Baroque, it's Gothic.

Grimstonefire
14-02-2010, 20:01
Edit: And GW isn't Baroque, it's Gothic.

More's the pity. But then again it's a good job that GW don't release WoC models the way adrian smith draws them... I would be completely broke in a week.

StarFyreXXX
14-02-2010, 20:25
I hope these are cast in resin!!!

Anyone know?

Sanjay