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Motley
12-01-2010, 01:07
Hey i know this is not going to change nothing and even less at this stage but here is a poll asking if you "Blood Angels players" want the Background of the books from this guy in the main codex...

I personaly took this books really bad... but well here is a poll

Eulenspiegel
12-01-2010, 01:37
I won´t even BOTHER to click any of those options.

I´m hoping Swallow´s novels will be silently forgotten and over the years and decades slowly fade out of the collective GW-fluff. Maybe our grand-grand-children will play the game unsoiled by his ... interpretation of Blood Angels.

Edit:
BTW Motley, I´m slightly offended by your avatar picture. Do you condone the "vampire counts in space" Blood Angels? ;)

Motley
12-01-2010, 02:04
Why man that pic is amazing!!!:) anything with mephiston is amazing!!!!....:evilgrin:

Well in my case i love the vampire aspect of the blood angels ....since second edition i knew about it, so is ok with me..... no problem going around and from time to time losing it for some blood.....:evilgrin:

player21
12-01-2010, 03:10
I just hope Swallow has nothing to do with the codex. He made the Blood Angels the laugh stock of 40K with his books.

Lyinar
12-01-2010, 03:13
While I won't defend the Blood Angels books he did, and can't give an opinion one way or another on Faith and Fire, he did do a good job with Flight of the Eisenstein, so he doesn't completely suck as an author.

But yeah, i hope his BA books get ignored in the new Codex.

rb.uhs
12-01-2010, 03:34
On the subject of his books. The first (and I think only) BA stories I read were James Swallow's, so I don't know what to compare it to. BA just don't interest me all that much.

How exactly has he ruined BA with his books? And please don't write 'they sucked' it's not very specific.

RampagingRavener
12-01-2010, 04:14
As someone who's never read one of Swallow's BA books, yet frequently heard tales of how abysmal they are, what exactly is so wrong with them? Are we talking CS Goto levels of tripe here, or what?

Motley
12-01-2010, 05:02
Well from a neutral point of view he is good at writing books( i like the flight of the eisenstein) but the problem of the blood angels books is that the fluff on the history is total out of phase with the regular lines of 40k.
He portrait the blood angels space marines in a really bad way making the story of the book a little difficult to digest.
To put it in other words when you going to read a book about an army that u have been collecting with an ideal reputation you want to read something good, a good story of heroes or amazing things that happen in a specific context. But this guy make a story about the army and takes everything you knew about the blood angels down.....like more that 2 battle companies goes heretic( that in real fluff will be enough to be in worse terms with the inquisition that the Dark Angels) , several of his heroes are incompetents, they have not respect from the other "cousins" chapters ( thats a term that he invented for the second founding chapters of the blood angels)or vice versa. And the list goes on and on, and ends with a bad narrative of some crazy events with not sense what so ever.
Now from the point of view of a 40k fan......this books suuuucckkkkk!!!!!:mad:

carlisimo
12-01-2010, 06:23
I hope it's worse than you're making it sound, because that's par for the course in the 40k universe.

Shadowfax
12-01-2010, 07:04
It's kind of funny that you didn't capitalize his name, yet somehow found the word "background" worthy of that honour.

MadHatter
12-01-2010, 07:23
i hope they do not use the novels for game fluff. I would like to see some of the Orgional fluff returned and expanded on.

GodofWarTx
12-01-2010, 07:44
With James Swallow's background combined with the background for the new Space Hulk, the Blood Angels have managed to almost wipe themselves out twice in 1000 years, and definately not gracefully.

IcedAnimals
12-01-2010, 07:44
Blood Angels omnibus was a decent read. I don't see why so much hate toward the books. Was it because his Blood Angels actually had some flaws and weren't perfect noble "angels"?

Faith and Fire was a good book (though im biased since its the only sisters book) and I have heard nothing but good things on flight of the Eisenstein.

spacewolf_sven
12-01-2010, 07:46
The worst things about those books is the covers to be honest the scale of things(which is their main flaw) stems here I don't remember the book actually covering this. Unless the 3rd one was really bad.

solarius
12-01-2010, 08:13
I bet if GW adopts these backgrounds together with space hulk, Dante will definitely get eternal warrior in the new dex.
He successfully led all of his brothers into oblivion yet survived for twice. No doubt even Calgar hand the lead to him in Armageddom.

Let's hope the reason for BA having the most Dreads is not :"nearly all of they managed to either get themselves chopped open in a hulk or fight each other to half-death". I just wonder whether those authors know the word GW used to describe BA is "noble", for with their fluff I can't find a SM chapter with more shameful history.

wilsongrahams
12-01-2010, 11:09
I voted for 'I don't care' for the simple reason that - I didn't think the books were up to much, but if they release models based on the characters and have stats that are suitable, then all is well and good. Whether this reflects upon the abilities in the book or not doesn't matter - Marine's are too weak in Swallow's books compared to others but the rules don't change for marine's just because one writer makes them tougher than a titan.

As long as there is good fluff from the past, great models for now, the fluff shouldn't make too much difference as in your head you can make your army whatever you want ti to be as long as it's painted right and uses the right codex.

I've always imagined my Blood Angels as noble and heroic characters that are 'very efficient' in combat, rather than raving lunatics as some like to believe. Everyone has a right to an opinion, and nobody can tell them that their opinion is wrong.

Lord Damocles
12-01-2010, 11:14
Can I be the first to say "May your Blood Angels bray, and may your Baal Tanks be struck down by children with rocks".
To be fair, Swallow isn't quite as bad as Goto.


The basic storyline of Swallow's Blood Angels trilogy could have been reasonably average (good by Black library stanards then...), but the number of things which are flat out wrong (Tactical Marines with blue helmets etc.), or just don't make much sense (Mephiston's personal Strike Cruiser etc.) 'detract' somewhat...

WinglessVT2
12-01-2010, 11:16
If he teams up with CS Goto, we'll have twilight vampire Vlad Bloodfang, riding on his trusted bloodbat, wielding bat claws and multilasers.

Jaxell
12-01-2010, 11:18
Please god no!

polymphus
12-01-2010, 11:24
He portrait the blood angels space marines in a really bad way making the story of the book a little difficult to digest.
To put it in other words when you going to read a book about an army that u have been collecting with an ideal reputation you want to read something good, a good story of heroes or amazing things that happen in a specific context. But this guy make a story about the army and takes everything you knew about the blood angels down.....like more that 2 battle companies goes heretic( that in real fluff will be enough to be in worse terms with the inquisition that the Dark Angels) , several of his heroes are incompetents, they have not respect from the other "cousins" chapters ( thats a term that he invented for the second founding chapters of the blood angels)or vice versa. And the list goes on and on, and ends with a bad narrative of some crazy events with not sense what so ever.
Now from the point of view of a 40k fan......this books suuuucckkkkk!!!!!

Soooo....could someone please explain coherently what's wrong with his books?

ThePope
12-01-2010, 11:25
No chuffing way, the BA books are an utter disaster. If he has any influence in the background missile launchers will suddenly become missile guns, tactical squads will suddenly become blue helmeted oh and Dante will have command over about 10 marines because all the rest are dead.

ThePope
12-01-2010, 11:31
Soooo....could someone please explain coherently what's wrong with his books?

He takes all the good things about the Blood Angles such as their nobility, fierce loyalty to their commander/imperium and then throws it out of the window and turns them into some blood thirsty (lol stopping to drink a word bearers blood in the middle of a battle they are losing) idiots with no regard for their commander or successor chapters. Gives them an utterly retarded internal chapter war and leaves them with about 10 marines left (may be exaggerating on the number)

Not only that he butchers the Wordbearers fluff in the books as well.

Don't get me started on the technical details such as " marines using missile guns at point blank range" and killing helmated marines with head shots from laspistols at huge range.

daemonkin
12-01-2010, 11:35
If he teams up with CS Goto, we'll have twilight vampire Vlad Bloodfang, riding on his trusted bloodbat, wielding bat claws and multilasers.

Awesome!! :skull:

D.

Grimmeth
12-01-2010, 11:45
Perhaps if the whole incident was just written as a 'negative propoganda' issue or something (and as such not entirely true) then maybe, but (and I've not read the books, so can't comment completey) I don't like most of the ideas that I've heard in the BA Omnibus...

Petay1985
12-01-2010, 12:18
books are ok, nothing to write home about but kept be entertained for a while, he has some interesting concepts that i'd like to see incorporated, so i will go with a controversial 'yes' :cool:

ThePope
12-01-2010, 12:29
Only thing I can happily take from the books is that Seth is an utter badass.

Master Jeridian
12-01-2010, 12:42
I mistook Swallow for C S Goto in a previous (deleted) post, I do apologise- that is a cruel insult to an author.

Shanyra
12-01-2010, 12:46
I mistook Swallow for C S Goto in a previous (deleted) post, I do apologise- that is a cruel insult to an author.

OUCH :D

My vote: even if I dont like any kind of space marine - dont put the book fluff into the BA codex, it simply doesnt match (in my opinion)

WinglessVT2
12-01-2010, 12:54
CS Goto and Swallow are on the same level of stupid.
The main problem with both is that they disregard the inherent rules of cool and background, then replace both with their own versions, which just so happen to be XTREME!!!!!

That's why we got blood angels that are mindless vampires and wield missile miniguns, eldar that are absolutely nothing like eldar, and marines that lug around multilasers.
Headshots on marines with laspistols are about as XTREME!!! as Cable, and equally as stupid.

Avoid both these authors.

ThePope
12-01-2010, 13:00
CS Goto and Swallow are on the same level of stupid.
The main problem with both is that they disregard the inherent rules of cool and background, then replace both with their own versions, which just so happen to be XTREME!!!!!

Hit the nail on the head. Totally ignore back ground, make up stupid weapons and don't understand the fundamentals of fluff.

WinglessVT2
12-01-2010, 13:12
One of these days, GW is going to hire Rob Liefeld, and tag him up with Goto and Swallow.
What we'll end up with is going to destroy the dark ages of comics with its pure level of stupidity.

Overmuscled marines with three ponytails and headgear mounted on their helmets, wielding bolters the same size as them, and complete with at least three barrels, their armor festooned with pouches, sidearms, five foot knives, samuari swords, and rippling muscles that show right through the plates.
Of course, they'll all be riding bats, wolves, and hovercars, all fitted with multiple multilasers and missile miniguns.

Cable is totally making a cameo as Marneus Calgar, now capable of shooting lasers from his bionic eyes and fingers.

The pestilent 1
12-01-2010, 13:29
I hope CS Goto writes the next Space Marine codex personally.
Feeding on your anguish, and all that

Narf
12-01-2010, 13:34
always thought boltguns were mini rocket launchers ;)

the thing that annoyed me is that in the first book tehre were "thousands" of BA in a training ground.... thousands ..... ummm ok....

only read the first two books as they were linked, havent bothered with the 3rd

ThePope
12-01-2010, 13:38
always thought boltguns were mini rocket launchers ;)

The fact that he mentions a bolt gun then a missile gun in the same sentence makes me think he invented a completely new weapon >.>

Lord Damocles
12-01-2010, 13:41
Conversely; even if Swallow does write the new codex, it can't really be any worse than the current one (whats a Cyclone Missile Launcher do again..?)

The pestilent 1
12-01-2010, 13:42
always thought boltguns were mini rocket launchers ;)



It is, in the sense that it has a rocket propellant in one of it's two stages.

Because caseless ammo doesn't actually work so well without the initial charge.

Tarquinn
12-01-2010, 14:40
The books were okay, although the most interesting part was the introdutionary chapter of the last book (which had nothing to do with the rest of the story). :p

gitburna
12-01-2010, 14:44
I've read the books (well, the first two parts contained in the omnibus) and honestly don't think they're nearly as bad as people are making out.

Most peoples issues with 40k books come down to things like "guardsman blows up a dreadnought with a lasgun" or such like. (despite the actual event being more akin to a krak grenade attack)
As ever, there is a certain amount of artistic license which the author has used, so what if someone kills a marine with a laspistol, you know, its not like marine armour is completely invulnerable, a shot's bound to make it through here or there. I certainly enjoyed the book far more than any of the Soul Drinkers novels (or Brothers of the Snake)

Complaints about heroes being incompetent or whatever are absurd. Even in the space marines, there are sure to be people who are better and worse than average, even those higher up the command chain. My take on this was that (somewhat like in the codexes) different commanders bring different things to the table - Captains are the level headed, tactical fighters bringing a balanced leadership style, while "religious" leaders like the chaplains (and Sanguinary Priests for the blood angels) bring a different form of leadership.

The Word Bearers background is not "butchered" by Swallow by any means. I would say rather, that the Anthony Reynolds novels set the standard (and they are of course more recent - and focus on the Word Bearers).

And as far as the plot goes, we only have to read the books set during the Horus Heresy to know what kind of effect the Primarchs have on the battle brothers, so the basic premise is certainly plausible.

ThePope
12-01-2010, 14:51
And as far as the plot goes, we only have to read the books set during the Horus Heresy to know what kind of effect the Primarchs have on the battle brothers, so the basic premise is certainly plausible.

I'm sorry but I just can't see the Blood Angels believing that suddenly their Primarch has been re incanted/second coming of Sanguineous especially since their death company goes through the whole vision of their Primarch being brutally killed.

The fact that a mear battle brother was allowed to touch such a sacred artefact no matter how good his battle victory was is also amusing to me.

May be plausible for chapters who's Primarchs just wandered off but Sanguineous was killed and they Angels know he was killed as many brothers re live the tragic event!

Eulenspiegel
12-01-2010, 14:52
To elaborate on my first post:

Swallow isn´t a bad writer as such, no. I just utterly disagree that the Blood Angels would so easily be penetrated by Chaos twice. The first book begun with a WTF moment and it didn´t get better.

Sfixterman
12-01-2010, 15:16
Swallow's books present the blood angels beeing abslutely incompetent BUT extraordinary heroic... Especially in deus encarmine the blood angels by some diabolical way, lose ALL their vehicles (hey, who was supposed to whtch over them?? not me!!) and have to face chaos marines, raptors, terminators AND obliterators... who ultimately beat... HOW JOHN RAMBO no 109 CAN THIS REALLY BE??? 50 marines kill a whole warband of chaos with their bolters!!!

Also, if you can remember, Rafen questions the divinity of his brother... In the other marines' ears he guestions Sanguinius himself... Normally this could lead to public execution, not the constant try by everyone to change Rfen's mind... LOL, this really sound funny...

WinglessVT2
12-01-2010, 15:17
At least they weren't dual-wielding multilasers to gun all those chaos marines down.

Sfixterman
12-01-2010, 15:19
Hey, didn't you know??? Loyalist power armour is made of ceramite. Chaos armour is made of cotton...

ThePope
12-01-2010, 15:24
Swallow's books present the blood angels beeing abslutely incompetent BUT extraordinary heroic... Especially in deus encarmine the blood angels by some diabolical way, lose ALL their vehicles (hey, who was supposed to whtch over them?? not me!!)

Also noticed they have a terrible habit of loosing their guns as well? Their armoury must be so much better stocked with weapons than other chapters because they are always loosing them. How ever they seem to lack ammo or are incredibly bad shots as well, they are also always running out of ammo then loosing their weapons :rolleyes:

gitburna
12-01-2010, 15:46
I'm sorry but I just can't see the Blood Angels believing that suddenly their Primarch has been re incanted/second coming of Sanguineous especially since their death company goes through the whole vision of their Primarch being brutally killed.

The fact that a mear battle brother was allowed to touch such a sacred artefact no matter how good his battle victory was is also amusing to me.

May be plausible for chapters who's Primarchs just wandered off but Sanguineous was killed and they Angels know he was killed as many brothers re live the tragic event!

Yet millions (billions if you include religion in general) of people on present day earth believe that Jesus Christ , god's son, died and then came back to life, or that the Dalai Lama is the reincarnation of the Buddha.

Its really not as implausible as you think

ThePope
12-01-2010, 16:17
Yet millions (billions if you include religion in general) of people on present day earth believe that Jesus Christ , god's son, died and then came back to life, or that the Dalai Lama is the reincarnation of the Buddha.

Its really not as implausible as you think

I struggle to understand that in humans let alone the mind washed super humans that the Astartes are.

Lord Malorne
12-01-2010, 16:22
I just hope Swallow has nothing to do with the codex. He made the Blood Angels the laugh stock of 40K with his books.

How, i'm pretty sure it is BA players who get them, the rest of us don't care.

Lord Malorne

Lyinar
12-01-2010, 16:27
I struggle to understand that in humans let alone the mind washed super humans that the Astartes are.

That is an extremely ironic statement, given your username...

Personally, I'd say the first two BA books (which I've actually read) are well-written and take an interesting idea in exactly the wrong direction.

And, when you're feeling down about an author messing something up, just repeat a mantra I've come to use (and sadly, it even applies to CS Goto...): At least he's not Dan Brown. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/6194031/The-Lost-Symbol-and-The-Da-Vinci-Code-author-Dan-Browns-20-worst-sentences.html)

Spider-pope
12-01-2010, 17:06
Well from a neutral point of view he is good at writing books( i like the flight of the eisenstein) but the problem of the blood angels books is that the fluff on the history is total out of phase with the regular lines of 40k.
He portrait the blood angels space marines in a really bad way making the story of the book a little difficult to digest.
To put it in other words when you going to read a book about an army that u have been collecting with an ideal reputation you want to read something good, a good story of heroes or amazing things that happen in a specific context. But this guy make a story about the army and takes everything you knew about the blood angels down.....like more that 2 battle companies goes heretic( that in real fluff will be enough to be in worse terms with the inquisition that the Dark Angels) , several of his heroes are incompetents, they have not respect from the other "cousins" chapters ( thats a term that he invented for the second founding chapters of the blood angels)or vice versa. And the list goes on and on, and ends with a bad narrative of some crazy events with not sense what so ever.
Now from the point of view of a 40k fan......this books suuuucckkkkk!!!!!:mad:

Blood Angels are utterly defined by their Primarch and his death, perhaps more than any other Chapter. Given their curse, and their desire to find some way to overcome it, its not impossible to believe some would accept the lie that their primarch was returning to them.



He takes all the good things about the Blood Angles such as their nobility, fierce loyalty to their commander/imperium and then throws it out of the window and turns them into some blood thirsty (lol stopping to drink a word bearers blood in the middle of a battle they are losing) idiots with no regard for their commander or successor chapters. Gives them an utterly retarded internal chapter war and leaves them with about 10 marines left (may be exaggerating on the number)



The novels i read stuck closer to the old view of noble, but flawed, Blood Angels far more than the post 3rd Ed. loyalist berzerkers that they have been twisted into. They were tricked, duped into believing their wildest dreams were coming true. Noble does not equal infallible.

Which is where the issue lies really, some BA players just cant accept the concept that their chosen chapter has flaws. So when a story takes those flaws and builds a plot around them, they lash out declaring it garbage.


CS Goto and Swallow are on the same level of stupid.
The main problem with both is that they disregard the inherent rules of cool and background, then replace both with their own versions, which just so happen to be XTREME!!!!!

Avoid both these authors.

Hardly. CS Goto writes barely coherent dribble. Despise his plots all you want, but Swallow is a decent writer, Goto is not.

polymphus
12-01-2010, 21:46
Also noticed they have a terrible habit of loosing their guns as well? Their armoury must be so much better stocked with weapons than other chapters because they are always loosing them.

I'm sorry, whating their guns? Loosing them? Making them less tight? Surely they'd fall apart. I'm not normally this pedantic, but I find it deliciously ironic that you're insulting an author but you can't actually spell.


Which is where the issue lies really, some BA players just cant accept the concept that their chosen chapter has flaws. So when a story takes those flaws and builds a plot around them, they lash out declaring it garbage.
This. Hail Spider-pope, for he is wise.

Eulenspiegel
12-01-2010, 22:04
This. Hail Spider-pope, for he is wise.
Yes, definetely this :rolleyes:
You seem not to have read the books but feel you have to post in this thread. Twice. And even pass judgement.

*SPOILERS following*

Spider Pope:
"Flawed" surely doesn´t mean "inviting bloody Fabius Bile to stumble into your chapter fortress"? Being ar*eholes to each other (first book)? Not knowing each damn one of your brother marines (again, first book). Following a damn Inquisitor who acts so shady you have to bring infrared instead of your brothers?

I´m not too worried about Swallow killing off Blood Angels by the dozen (hundreds), imagine that. Damn Swallow just has to build a good story around that, one that fits Blood Angels or even marine background.


With Swallow´s audibook "Heart of Rage" I have a few problems, too:
- Blood Angel in the grips of rage attacks a fellow Blood Angel. This could be justified as this rage was chaos-induced. Alas, Swallow doesn´t even hint that that marine´s rage was any different to the "regular" one.
- A sanguinary priest answers to and even calls a Sergerant "sir". Ok this was a veteran sergeant, maybe the BA first company will be revealed to be rather high in the command structure. I personally see Sanguinary Priests being almost venerated by their fellow Blood Angels.
There´s some other details, but overall I actually liked "Heart of Rage", if only because I´ve heard some of the words being pronounced in english for the first time :)


Edit:
Ok I quoted the wrong thing, please do not sue me! One should get the message, though.

etancross
12-01-2010, 22:16
How, i'm pretty sure it is BA players who get them, the rest of us don't care.

Lord Malorne

wow... i agree with that...

polymphus
12-01-2010, 22:20
You seem not to have read the books but feel you have to post in this thread. Twice. And even pass judgement.

Because this is Warseer. Nothing is as bad as Warseer makes it sound. Whenever someone whines so vehemently about something it turns out to be boring or slightly out of place, but never as terrible as the whining suggests. So I'm not passing judgement on the book, I'm passing judgement on the whining. People have said why they thought the book was crap and all their reasons have been terrible.

Person A. This author is terrible for the following reasons: x, y, z.
Me. None of those things make a bad author.
Person A. But their knowledge of the BA fluff is terrible, they wrote about things a, b and c.
Me. Those things conform with the present fluff.

See where I'm coming from?


"Flawed" surely doesn´t mean "inviting bloody Fabius Bile to stumble into your chapter fortress"? Being ar*eholes to each other (first book)? Not knowing each damn one of your brother marines (again, first book). Following a damn Inquisitor who acts so shady you have to bring infrared instead of your brothers?

Out of all of these, only the first seems that out of place and I have a distinct feeling your wording is doing great things to exaggerate it. Why would marines being ********s be so out of place? Why is following the Inquisition to a tee so hard to believe? I don't actually understand the third complaint. You expect a marine to know every other marine in his chapter? Or you don't?

Eulenspiegel
12-01-2010, 22:24
Because this is Warseer. Nothing is as bad as Warseer makes it sound. Whenever someone whines so vehemently about something it turns out to be boring or slightly out of place, but never as terrible as the whining suggests. So I'm not passing judgement on the book, I'm passing judgement on the whining. People have said why they thought the book was crap and all their reasons have been terrible.
You seem to like it here just fine, despite that ;)
Also, following your reasoning, it seems you are a great fan of CS Goto! :p

polymphus
12-01-2010, 22:31
Also, following your reasoning, it seems you are a great fan of CS Goto!
I do? People providing criticisms of Goto and I thinks 'yes, that would make a terrible book.' Sp using my train of thought from before;

Person A. This author is terrible for the following reasons: x, y, z.
Me. Those things make a bad author.
Person A. But their knowledge of the fluff is terrible, they wrote about things a, b and c.
Me. Those things no not conform with the present fluffbringingdownfalconswithsticksWARGLBARGL.


You seem to like it here just fine, despite that
I try to stay away from 40K general but it just keeps sucking me back in. Kinda like Ed Wood films.

ThePope
12-01-2010, 23:47
I'm sorry, whating their guns? Loosing them? Making them less tight? Surely they'd fall apart. I'm not normally this pedantic, but I find it deliciously ironic that you're insulting an author but you can't actually spell.

Oh crap I spelt one word wrong damn I must automatically be wrong :( Jesus by spelling this one word wrong I am automatically a retard and can't have an opinion. I am so veeeeery veeeeeeeeeery sorry.

Pandion40
13-01-2010, 00:17
Swallow is a good author. His Faith and Fire and The Flight of the Eisenstein novels are good books. Despite the problems I see in his Blood Angels books I liked the feel of the Chapter, they felt like Blood Angels to me, Stupid Blood Angels maybe but Blood Angels nonetheless.

Having said that I don't want his background made official. The blood angels were far too trusting. Nobody trusts an Inquisitor, yet swallows BA trusted him completely. Yes the Blood Angels should have flaws but when you have a sanguinary priest in the first book ,who in my opinion, has such severe character flaws he would never have made it passed basic training in any space marine chapter, let alone been promoted to a position of authority the book has problems.

The sanguinary priest was the character who offended me most but the majority of them were off. I have never met anyone in my life who is as naive and trusting as Swallow's Blood Angels, and these are supposed to be superhuman warrior monks with a dark secret, living in the harshest and cruellest regime ever.

WinglessVT2
13-01-2010, 00:21
Einstein is good, the rest goes from 'okay' to 'horrible.'
I agree. Despite acting like total retards, they still 'feel' like blood angels, so he's not all bad.

The blood angels' books's marines feel like they are blood angels, but the books are still mostly horrible.

solarius
13-01-2010, 03:11
Well, the fluff is BA fought with the 1000 marines they have for 10000 years against the most vicious enemies in the universe.

From the book we see a group of retards who can find a way to wipe themselves out within 50 years definitely.

Space marines can't be stupid in my opinion, especially those first foundings that keep on fighting for thousands of years with the 1000 men they have. stupid chapters may exist - for a short time. Then they got wiped given the enemies they need to face every time. Technical superiority and clever judgements plays a bigger role than their muscle and bolters in keep them alive and fighting. 1000 is in no way a big number under a planetary scale.

oh, has the offical fluff said BA are the longest living space marines?(and led by a longest living chapter master that are so experienced Calgar surrender the lead) Hard to imagine how could that be for a stupid chapter though...

GodofWarTx
13-01-2010, 07:32
I find it odd that everyone has overlooked my comment that the Blood Angels almost got wiped out TWICE within a few hundred years. Once to bumbling into a space hulk, and the other to a civil war.

wilsongrahams
13-01-2010, 07:50
Sin Of Damnation was in the year 40,589, the current Swallow Book Red Fury takes place in 40,999, the exact date of the previous two can't be long before that. Surely 400 years is enough to recruit a decent army again? And as stated, with the Schism there is not really the whole Chapter decimated, just a couple companies. Heavy recruiting could replace these losses relatively quickly - maybe just taking on a few aspirants that would normally be left behind to guard Angels fall.

You can also assume that many 'dead' marines later recover.

Motley
13-01-2010, 08:20
Soooo....could someone please explain coherently what's wrong with his books?

Well bro i know i dont supposed to do this but here r some reasons

*SPOILERS *

Fluff Part....

1 A regular space marine touch a relic of the chapter and automatically have wings .....James swallow explain that every body that witness this believe this guy is a reincarnation of sanguinius itself.
Problem....at that point right there was at least 150 marines with command groups, veterans, sanguinary priests and chaplains and nobody said hey this is a mutation put him on a cell until the librarians of the chapter check this out......yea right....
2 This Space marine with wings is granted the command of the whole battle group without questions, because they think is sanguinius reincarnated.
Problem.....A space marine captain usually spend around 100 to 200 hundred years if lucky to get to that position ... do anybody in this webside really believe that a guy with the experience of 200 to 300 years is going to do that...:shifty:
3 When a librarian and a captain that supposed to check this guy were murder by this individual nobody did nothing because everybody said dante doesnt want to lose the command of the blood angels and send this two guys to kill the mesias ....
Problem....if you r a captain and in two hundred years you dont know personally the other 9 captains that conform the head command of the chapter or the chapter master itself and his intentions.....you r the weird guy of the chapter dude....i mean ....is only 1000 warriors and in the case of the blood angels they even live more that regular space marines....in a regular high school there is more than that, an usually anybody know everybody after a couple of months.
4 the guy decide to go and do a crusade. Enlist people from that world, plus take all the blood angels under his command and tell them that his intentions is kill dante and mephiston if they dont give him the total command of the blood angels..........:cheese:
Problem.. again ..... you know i just got tired of writing, this is ridiculous the list goes on and on .....in few words the books sucks doesn't make any sense and if you know the blood angels or any space marines chapter in deep this story is stupid ...ending with fabius bile infiltrating blood angels fortress and making mutants more powerful that a dreadnought chapter master:shifty:...of course the heroe of all this bu*&^%$ is the brother of the main mutated guy....:eyebrows:........who pass from be a regular space marine to saiyan level 1....level 2....level3....more powerful that the emperor and sanguinius and everybody on the freaking chapter....whatever!!!!

Motley
13-01-2010, 08:27
Sin Of Damnation was in the year 40,589, the current Swallow Book Red Fury takes place in 40,999, the exact date of the previous two can't be long before that. Surely 400 years is enough to recruit a decent army again? And as stated, with the Schism there is not really the whole Chapter decimated, just a couple companies. Heavy recruiting could replace these losses relatively quickly - maybe just taking on a few aspirants that would normally be left behind to guard Angels fall.

You can also assume that many 'dead' marines later recover.

In the year 40,999 mephiston didn't even born yet....:eyebrows: in fact the second armagendon war start on 41,941...;)

gitburna
13-01-2010, 15:49
In the year 40,999 mephiston didn't even born yet....:eyebrows: in fact the second armagendon war start on 41,941...;)

Oh really? so you're saying the game is actually set in the 42nd millenium, is that right ? Silly Games Workshop, not even getting your dates right. Oh, wait......

:rolleyes:

wilsongrahams
13-01-2010, 15:58
M41 means 40,000 - 40,999. Just to clarify. Same as this is the 21st Century now. Today's date would therfore be 1.13.10.M2 - the month comes first like the American date system. Hope this helps with working out GW dates. I have a nice timeline of all Blood angels and certain other events so that I can check and work out when things happen and how old people are between them.

Motley
14-01-2010, 03:54
Oh really? so you're saying the game is actually set in the 42nd millenium, is that right ? Silly Games Workshop, not even getting your dates right. Oh, wait......

:rolleyes:


M41 means 40,000 - 40,999. Just to clarify. Same as this is the 21st Century now. Today's date would therfore be 1.13.10.M2 - the month comes first like the American date system. Hope this helps with working out GW dates. I have a nice timeline of all Blood angels and certain other events so that I can check and work out when things happen and how old people are between them.

upssss my bad u guys right i was really tired yesterday!!!:p

Horus_Lupercal
24-01-2010, 00:13
there is nothing wrong with these books they are awesome ive read them atleast five times. he gets wings from the essence of chaos that the traitor inquisitor steele cultivates within him using the power that the great warp beast malfax servant of tzeetch* gave him. and its not just that he sprouted wings..... his face matched thier primarchs perfectly, he aquired new powers (the Quickening) and had the blessing of a very important man in the ordo herictus. the action is very good with one of the best marine on marine action ever. the third book was well written too. Fabius Bile is one cunning mother hummper how do you expect he has lived this long in such questionable company, plus the blood angles didnt just let him walk off either, seargant rafen is now on his tail and i cant wait for that book. im glad James Swallow did something with the Blood Angles from what i can gather from all you other people is that they were just sittin in the corner gathering dust atleast he took them and showed them in the nitty gritty galaxy of 40k were everything doesnt always end up well and most of the good guys die. so ya i though James Swallow's books were really good.

Lord Lucifer
24-01-2010, 14:34
Largely skimming over this thread, just to say:
The Blood Angels should return to their second edition feel. Redeemed rennaisance men, formerly hideously mutated and now beautiful in the likeness of their Primarch, but deeply, deeply flawed by their secret genetic curse. The skeleton in the closet that is suspected at times, but never gets to be more than rumour.
The hint at vampirism, no blatant WE DRINK BLOOD, LOOK!!! over-the-top shenanigans. It's better as a shadowwy threat, obliquely hinted to
And FFS, THE BLOOD ANGELS ARE HUMBLE!
They're the most loyal and active chapter in the Imperium, and yet the most humble, having come from humble beginnings on Baal Secondus, deeply troubled by the shared memory of Sanguinius' final moments, and afflicted with his terrible, swift rage.

Return to the touch of subtlety, the Sons of Sanguinius are not a goddamned cartoon!

Gdolkin
24-01-2010, 16:30
Largely skimming over this thread, just to say:
The Blood Angels should return to their second edition feel. Redeemed rennaisance men, formerly hideously mutated and now beautiful in the likeness of their Primarch, but deeply, deeply flawed by their secret genetic curse. The skeleton in the closet that is suspected at times, but never gets to be more than rumour.
The hint at vampirism, no blatant WE DRINK BLOOD, LOOK!!! over-the-top shenanigans. It's better as a shadowwy threat, obliquely hinted to
And FFS, THE BLOOD ANGELS ARE HUMBLE!
They're the most loyal and active chapter in the Imperium, and yet the most humble, having come from humble beginnings on Baal Secondus, deeply troubled by the shared memory of Sanguinius' final moments, and afflicted with his terrible, swift rage.

Return to the touch of subtlety, the Sons of Sanguinius are not a goddamned cartoon!
Hell yeah buddy :)

Gutlord Grom
24-01-2010, 16:57
The Blood Angels series is a paint by numbers, written from the "Space Marines Stories for Dummies" guide with strict adherence to the usual cliches featuring: Rafen the Gary Stu and Chosen One, Koris the Grizzled Sergeant, Arkio the Chosen One But Not Really, Inquisitor Stelle the Evil Character Because Someone Needed To Be Transparently Evil, and a cast of supporting characters I will only describe as Thicker Than Brick Walls, Hilariously Incompetent Evil, or Wise Men of Plot Exposition. The plot's cut and pasted from Soul Drinkers up to a point (corrupt a loyal Chapter from within using Chaos disguised as the Emperor's gifts, except this time it's the Blood Angels).

Really, Swallow does a poor job of telling an interesting story, since roughly 1% of the characters are compelling, the fights are all one sided, and the ending is easy to see several chapters off.

On the Bad BL Book Scale: Dawn of War Novels< Blood Angels Trilogy< Brothers of the Snake.

KingDeath
24-01-2010, 17:29
The Blood Angels series is a paint by numbers, written from the "Space Marines Stories for Dummies" guide with strict adherence to the usual cliches featuring: Rafen the Gary Stu and Chosen One, Koris the Grizzled Sergeant, Arkio the Chosen One But Not Really, Inquisitor Stelle the Evil Character Because Someone Needed To Be Transparently Evil, and a cast of supporting characters I will only describe as Thicker Than Brick Walls, Hilariously Incompetent Evil, or Wise Men of Plot Exposition. The plot's cut and pasted from Soul Drinkers up to a point (corrupt a loyal Chapter from within using Chaos disguised as the Emperor's gifts, except this time it's the Blood Angels).

Really, Swallow does a poor job of telling an interesting story, since roughly 1% of the characters are compelling, the fights are all one sided, and the ending is easy to see several chapters off.

On the Bad BL Book Scale: Dawn of War Novels< Blood Angels Trilogy< Brothers of the Snake.

QFT, the Omnibus was realy the worst Black Library book that i had the doubtfull pleasure to read. Too bad that there arent more stories like Lord of the Night ( yes yes, not world literature but fun to read and not completly stupid ).

Logarithm Udgaur
24-01-2010, 19:48
... " marines using missile guns at point blank range"...

I do not suppose you have taken a look at a Bolter's internal workings lately?

Havarel
24-01-2010, 23:10
I'm almost tempted to get these books to see *how* bad they are. It'll take some doing to beat the Soul Drinkers.

Eulenspiegel
24-01-2010, 23:30
I'm almost tempted to get these books to see *how* bad they are. It'll take some doing to beat the Soul Drinkers.

They´re not jump-in-your-face-CSGoto-bad, it´s just that Swallow puts some very very very very dumb Blood Angels into a rather ok story (and I feel I have to repeat - the fact that a LOT of the Blood Angels die is not a problem for me). So if you don´t want to facepalm yourself every two pages, don´t read them.

nagash66
24-01-2010, 23:53
How could no one mention this? In the thrid book, Fabius biles evil mutant army of cloned marines ( 100% true) which he made AND grew on Ball with the help of the CHIEF APOTHECARY, who went against the express orders of Dante and invited a none BA AD mech randow dude on the advise of anothe none BA so they can work on the stuff he was ordered by his chapter master NOT to work on, heck he doesnt even check him out for security reasons, you know search the suitcases, keep guards near him when he is trying to make A BA CLONE ARMY!!! But hey dante is wrong , not like he is the 1100 year old Chapter master or anything....

Said mutants then get set loose and one of them reaches the RED GRAIL, and faces it all mighty guards of ....2....heavy bolter....servitors.... well at least security is tight. AND THEN DRINKS IT!?!??! Then said mutant army attacks Sangs grave and kill a ton of chapter masters command staff.
....
....
SO you ask why i dont like the book? Because when i a BA players buy a BA book i would like the BA in it to not make me feel like i wasted every penny i have given for them. Thats why, because whem i remeber those book it make me feel sad for playing a chapter that stupid!


So to protect my 40k sanity i will just say BA books? BL has never made any BA book, i dont know what you are on about...I SAID THERE IS ARE NO BA BOOKS!!