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wilsongrahams
12-01-2010, 11:12
Just a general test of opinions here really.

I have noticed that some characters and models can't take a standard issue Space Marine Bolter. This may have been fixed in certain Codices, do correct me if this is due to old material.

For example (because I have it to hand) the Pdf Blood Angels codex does not allow a Chaplain, Librarian or Company Captain to take a Boltgun. They can all have a bolt pistol, plasma pistol, or even a Storm Bolter, but not a simple plain Bolter.

Is this being fixed for the new codex books?

And if not, is there likely to be an objection to my using a captain with said weapon?

Jaxell
12-01-2010, 11:18
It's some kind of idiotic new path GW have been taking, disallowing leaders and squad leaders from taking the army's basic weapons. It's retarded in my opinion. Yeah sure special weapons will be usefull, but sometimes you just don't want/need to use them and prefer to shoot like the rest of the troops.

If you wanted to game with me, and you've outfitted your leaders/squadleaders with bolters? Then I say: "Let me get my lasguns on my commanders and sergeants, and lets play!"

sayles78
12-01-2010, 11:21
Just a general test of opinions here really.

I have noticed that some characters and models can't take a standard issue Space Marine Bolter. This may have been fixed in certain Codices, do correct me if this is due to old material.

For example (because I have it to hand) the Pdf Blood Angels codex does not allow a Chaplain, Librarian or Company Captain to take a Boltgun. They can all have a bolt pistol, plasma pistol, or even a Storm Bolter, but not a simple plain Bolter.

Is this being fixed for the new codex books?

And if not, is there likely to be an objection to my using a captain with said weapon?


Dont know if they'll change it (they probably will) - but I'd have no objections to you swapping your Bolt Pistol for a Bolter anyhow, and am pretty sure no one else would either.

pookie
12-01-2010, 11:24
i cants ee why anyone would object, but its as always best to ask your own gaming group, after all just because id let you doesnt mean they will ( though i see very little benefot from giving your Captain a Bolter )

though whilst im thinking, cant they get a Combi Bolter? this in itself should show that a Bolter would/should be a option )

Kurisu313
12-01-2010, 11:31
It's the worst possible option for a captain - why would I object to you handicapping yourself? :)

wilsongrahams
12-01-2010, 11:54
Yes, all three can have a combi-bolter. My reasoning is simply because I have some very old models in my army that have all recently been repainted. One in particular is my captain that has seen me through 15 years of fighting, and he has a boltgun and a power fist. And he often used to stand in line with a tactical squad and shoot like the rest, and then get stuck in when the enemy assaulted. Sure, I have other captain models - five or so I think, but he was always my hero, and I want him to be legal.

I'd expect it to be free to swap either the bolt pistol or the chainsword for the bolter as is the case for the majority of sergeants and assault troops, so wouldn't really cost anything. I'd ask permission then and see. Failing agreement I can always say it's a large bolt pistol...

ps, I'm also the guy who sometimes takes Tactical squads as just ten guys with bolters and Devastator squads with ten men and two heavy weapons. Whatever seems to fit what I want the army to look like is how I play rather than what is the best way to win.

WinglessVT2
12-01-2010, 13:03
Regular marines, templars, and space wolves can all take bolters if they feel like it, so the new blood angels should get that option, too.

Kurisu313
12-01-2010, 13:27
Yes, all three can have a combi-bolter. My reasoning is simply because I have some very old models in my army that have all recently been repainted. One in particular is my captain that has seen me through 15 years of fighting, and he has a boltgun and a power fist. And he often used to stand in line with a tactical squad and shoot like the rest, and then get stuck in when the enemy assaulted. Sure, I have other captain models - five or so I think, but he was always my hero, and I want him to be legal.

I'd expect it to be free to swap either the bolt pistol or the chainsword for the bolter as is the case for the majority of sergeants and assault troops, so wouldn't really cost anything. I'd ask permission then and see. Failing agreement I can always say it's a large bolt pistol...

ps, I'm also the guy who sometimes takes Tactical squads as just ten guys with bolters and Devastator squads with ten men and two heavy weapons. Whatever seems to fit what I want the army to look like is how I play rather than what is the best way to win.


Fair enough, my army isn't machined to power gaming perfection either - in the name of character some of my sergeants - gasp! - don't use powerfists!

I'll be giving a sternguard sergeant a power sword soon - even I'm rebelling against that, but in my fluff he uses a sword, so ho-hum.

Treadhead_1st
12-01-2010, 15:07
As mentioned, Codex Marines can get a Bolter. The Captain/Chapter Master comes with a Bolt Pistol, but it's a free swap to a Bolter. The Chaplain and Librarian come with "Bolter OR Bolt Pistol".

Not sure why it's worded differently, but there you are. I should imagine Codex: Blood Angels will do the same thing this April, since apparently the Space Wolves have the same option.

It's not necessarily a bad choice - my Salamander captain is equipped with a Thunder Hammer so, seeing as there's no longer a +1A for pairing with a Pistol, he's got a Bolter. Usually I opt for Hellfire rounds to make him anti-Monster (Poison, 2+) but I might downgrade that to a Storm Bolter. The same rings true for any Character equipped with a Relic Blade.

Chalk me up as another fella who uses units that look best, not are most effective. A Captain with Hammer, all-Storm Shield Command Squad, not a single Power Fist in Tactical/Devastator squads, Quad-Melta units and preferring Bolter/Fist Terminators to Hammer/Shield ones.

Sfixterman
12-01-2010, 15:38
Regular marine commanders get bolters, so do SW commanders and BT... but why put a bolter when you can get combi or a storm bolter?? in any case, about that old captain, just count him as having a bolt pistol... it's a bit longer but I bet that everyone you play with will accept as legal...

WinglessVT2
12-01-2010, 15:43
Because bolters are just cooler?

Bunnahabhain
12-01-2010, 15:44
It is a common complaint amongst some of the newer codexs.

The quartermasters not having enough lasguns for my sergeants is more annoying, as there are more of them..

Many people will let you ignore the rules, and take the sergeant/hero with the armies basic weapon, both as it is daft they can't have them, and as it is usually less good than any other option they could have...

Sfixterman
12-01-2010, 15:57
How can a bolter be cooler than a combi melta?

Also, I also have another complaint... Why commanders in termie armour are not able of taking assault cannons or heavy flamers??? it makes sence, since according to the fluff they are able of choosing from the whole armoury of their chapter....

Fell
12-01-2010, 16:04
Because the bolter fluff-wise is the epitome of a space marine weapon.

Treadhead_1st
12-01-2010, 18:09
Regular marine commanders get bolters, so do SW commanders and BT... but why put a bolter when you can get combi or a storm bolter?? in any case, about that old captain, just count him as having a bolt pistol... it's a bit longer but I bet that everyone you play with will accept as legal...

Because Bolters are free?

Sometimes it's hard to find 10pts or more for those guns. Admittedly C:SM Stormbolters are very cheap for Captains/Chapter Masters, but then with the rest of the army has had weapon/unit costs standardised to 5s/10s it can make it a bit daft - a couple of points left over or just not *quite* enough for even a Storm Bolter and there's nothing (like old Smoke Launchers) you can drop to make it fit.

With regards to the Cyclone/Assault Cannon in Termie armour - for game balance. They're BS5 which would make such weapons sickeningly accurate and would necessitate that they be more expensive than in a regular Termie squad. Though of course Space Wolves can do it on Wolfguard, but they're an exception (to everything ;)).

As an aside, why is a Storm Bolter so cheap for Captains but not Sergeants?

Sir_Turalyon
12-01-2010, 23:43
How can a bolter be cooler than a combi melta?

Being free replacement of bolt pistol rather than points sink?



Also, I also have another complaint... Why commanders in termie armour are not able of taking assault cannons or heavy flamers??? it makes sence, since according to the fluff they are able of choosing from the whole armoury of their chapter....


Because assault cannons don't grow on trees and dedicated gunner will make better use of it than captain who'se attention is on course of the battle?

As of oriignal poster's question, perhaps it's because there is no bolter in commander box :wtf: ?

meno1
13-01-2010, 04:17
For me, I see pistols as a sign of office, and very practical. It's a lot easier to be blasting heads with a pistol whilst giving orders and checking battle plans, rather than trying to aim and fire with a larger weapon. Also it distinguishes them from the average trooper, especially if the pistol is an heirloom from a long-lost warmaster or a prize, scavenged from a defeated enemy officer. As such, I give all my officers in my IG army bolt pistols (no matter the price) and often take the 15 point cost for upgrade to plasma pistol on my dignified DA officers.

Rant over, I do find it absurd that a captain can't take the standard issue wargear of his comrades. Every 40K book I've read so far has had officers blasting away with a lasgun/bolter, so why should the game be any different? Final thing, why did they take the armoury away in the codexes? They were great, instead of listing all the different options for each officer they could choose items from the armoury-including standard issue wargear.

druchii
13-01-2010, 05:01
Also, I also have another complaint... Why commanders in termie armour are not able of taking assault cannons or heavy flamers??? it makes sence, since according to the fluff they are able of choosing from the whole armoury of their chapter....

Same reason an officer in the Marine Corps doesn't run around with a thumper or a LMG.

d

ps. My reason for the above comment is speculative as I have never been in the Marine Corps, so I won't post it.