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View Full Version : Are you worried by the new Nids?



Souleater
14-01-2010, 10:30
With a fair amount of information now available on the new codex I am interested in the opinions of non-Tyranid players on the codex.

Is it going to affect your meta game much?

Do you see it as a balanced codex?

azimaith
14-01-2010, 11:01
Most of us see it as a equivalent or slightly weak codex depending on what sort of army you play with many good units being countered by many (sometimes inexplicable) bad ones.

IE You get better hormagaunts but get crappier spine gaunts, you get worse carnifex but get trygon. You get a better biovore but you end up with a crappy pyrovore.
Good gargoyles, weak harridan, good zoanthrope, worse warriors, ect and so on.

The power units have changed but over all I don't feel like its really much more balanced than the current one, theres a whole ton of stinkers and a whole ton of good units and the only thing that changed is which powerlist is the one to beat.

Vaktathi
14-01-2010, 11:17
On the whole, I'm not really worried about the Tyranid codex being overpowered, the only thing I'm really worried about is something where someone brings 5 tervigons to the table, 3 trygons, and 72 gaunts, and like 20 gargoyles, and ends up with about 250 models on the table, with 8 MC's, by turn 3 in a 2000pt game.

the new zoanthropes seem very powerful, not quite sure why they needed the most powerful one shot weapon outside of apocalypse, but they don't really seem overpowered looking at it considering they'll usually be one-shot units and either get shot up or locked down after they come in. Most of the new stuff doesn't look OP, and much of the older stuff got whacked with the nerfbat (some good, some bad).

It looks like it will be a little more competitive than the current one once everyone adjusts, only in a different way than it was before.

Warpcrafter
14-01-2010, 11:57
I'm worried that my 23 point Plague Marines will be swamped by cheap gaunts or out-classed by 3 wound warriors for only 7 more points. I'm glad I have my three vindicators.

Lord Solar Plexus
14-01-2010, 12:01
From what I gather it'll be a lateral shift at best. It will take a few games to get the hang of things but as an IG player, I'm not worried, I'm excited!

CrownAxe
14-01-2010, 12:04
It's interesting

They definitely have a tournament able list in taking Tervigon spam IMO

On the whole, it's a good codex with varying lists and will probably be great for non-competitive play.

I can't wait for my friend to start playing them :D

azimaith
14-01-2010, 12:07
Actually, looking at the rules its a hardy nerf until the faq comes out since you can't combine things like scything talons and rending claws, or lash whips and bone sword (since they're all two special weapons.)

Or you could house rule it of course :P

Mannimarco
14-01-2010, 12:19
Im not worried by the nids at all, yes it seems like a half decent book but all this whining online has convinced me that its the worst book ever and everything is overcosted with crap stats

I only fear 2 books and codex nids aint one of them

tu33y
14-01-2010, 12:28
I only fear 2 books and codex nids aint one of them

is one of them "Dianetics: the science of modern mental health" by L R Hubbard?

i fear the nids but i always always get spanked by them

SPYDER68
14-01-2010, 14:32
Not to worried about this book, has made me want to consider the army again so thats bad.

as for the Tervigons... someone taking 5 ? Set down with 3 dice and roll 3d6 for each one for turn 1.

I did this and i was kind of sad.. 3 i rolled doubles for, while only getting 6-9 guants (easy killpoint ? Yes please)

You seem to roll doubles alot on 3d6 to be able to make these beast be able to put out mass models.

Giganthrax
14-01-2010, 14:41
As far as I can see right now (mostly from internet rumors), the new dex doesn't look particularly scary. In fact, it doesn't look scary at all for now.

All these new gaunts, sure hormagaunts have I5 and wound anything on 4+, but who cares? They're still gaunts, they still footslog and get slaughtered by rapid firing bolters and flamers. Gargoyles? Cool, a bunch of gaunts coming into rapid fire/flaming range by turn 2 or 3, no problem.

Mawloc, trygon, spore pods, etc. might be scary if lots of them arrive in the same turn, but even so they can't assault on the turn they arrive (which is good), which means they will get shot up and then assaulted by stuff like th/ss termies.

The new lance power of zoanthropes seems scary on paper. 3 of them in a spore pod seem capable of coming down and popping a LR with no problems. But on the other hand, it can be nullified by anti-psyker abilities, the zoanthrops have only a 3+ save now and die from instant-death, and deep striking in this way is inherently unreliable.

Just about the only thing that I think is really dangerous is that terrofex thingie with its two str 10 shots at long range. And even that thing costs as much as a LR and takes up heavy support slot.

On the other hand, instant-death pwning nids now is a great boost against them.






As I said, I hope I'm wrong and that the codex is going to be much better, but as it is I don't see any reason to be worried.

O'Suam'Sha'Is
14-01-2010, 14:45
I'm fairly worried by them to be honest. Especially Trygons/Mawlocs. My Imperial Guard have faired very badly against the Old Nids. I'm dreading what's going to happen with these new units and their subterranean arrivals.

Vepr
14-01-2010, 15:00
Actually as I continue play testing I am afraid they are in the same place as before. Big stuff is decent to good. Small stuff is terrible and an actual liability to the bigger stuff. Even with the buffing from the tyrant and tervigon our small guys are just cannon fodder in the end. Fearless still makes them take a lot of wounds and they still spill wounds over to anything that tries to support them. They cost as much as other troops but they are worse than IG or Orks etc.

420
14-01-2010, 15:43
I've already played a game against the new Tyranids and I've got to say the list is balanced well enough for a GW product but it still ultimately comes down to the 'who has a most models' arms race of being able to tailor your list for any regular opponent. Most of the people I play against tailor mercilessly and have 2-3 times more models than I do so its still pretty much pointless for me to try and beat them.

Grax
14-01-2010, 15:51
I'm not afraid of any army. I'm just afraid of players.

A great player can win with an uber cheesy new codex or Tau. It doesn't really matter.

Vepr
14-01-2010, 15:52
I've already played a game against the new Tyranids and I've got to say the list is balanced well enough for a GW product but it still ultimately comes down to the 'who has a most models' arms race of being able to tailor your list for any regular opponent. Most of the people I play against tailor mercilessly and have 2-3 times more models than I do so its still pretty much pointless for me to try and beat them.

The way around this is to bring more than one army and when they ask what you are playing and start building a list around that at game time just plop down the other army and say you changed your mind. If they go back to change their list put the other army down. If they actually complain just laugh. ;)

I don't mind playing tailored lists if both parties are tailoring to each other. It gets a bit annoying if you are always bringing an all comers list vs tailored lists though and multiple armies are the way around it.

Creeping Dementia
14-01-2010, 15:54
Ya I'm plenty worried about the new Nids. There are a couple things that I can't figure how I'm going to cope with.

First off I play Tau and Sisters.

My Sisters are going to be fine, hell they seem like they were invented to burn up bugs.


My Tau on the other hand, are looking totally screwed, and heres why.
I run a full mech list, with 11-12 skimmers depending on the list, 5-9 suits depending on the list.
First off, I have zero options for Psychic defence, so Zoanthropes will be getting shots off completely unopposed. Similarly theres no stopping Tyrants and Tervs psychic stuff.

Second, it's a free hunting season on my suits now. Hive Guard, while I don't think they're a real strong choice overall, are going to be taken by a lot of people, and they'll be IDing my suits all over the place. Trygons and Mawlocs will also have a field day going after suits, a Mawloc bursting from the ground is almost guaranteed to kill one suit before I even get a shot.

Third, it's pretty simple to to get in close without me ever getting a shot, Mycetic spores. Why is that a huge issue? It'll be real easy to get Zoans within 12 inches of my tanks, neutralizing Disruption Pod effects, good bye Hammerheads. Before I could keep Zoans at least 12 inches away, now thats not an option. Podding Dreads are already a pain, but Podding Zoans are much better for taking out tanks, and frankly with their invuln are more survivable (as in 3 meltas won't take all 2-3 of them down).

Fourth, the shear amount of S5-6 shooting a lot of Nid armies put out are going to really rip apart my Piranha. This concern isn't quite as big, but it's still a problem

There are other little things that worry me too, but with tactical tweaks I'll cope.

Now, what are some possible solutions to these problems?
I could use kroot screens to mess with Pod drops deployment, but against a big Deathspitter Warrior squad + Prime, or a Devourer Fex, are those really going to do a thing? Not to mention unlimited gaunts.

I could go with a number of Broadsides, but come on, with improved reserve rolls, the chances of a couple big nasties landing right on top of me is pretty good, and taking out 10+ wounds of MCs in a single turn to protect the Broadsides, on top of maneuvering around/shooting back 30+ gaunts and more MCs from the front... not likely.

To protect my suits... there isn't really any options out there. Mawlocs will come up where they come up, and I'm going to be in range of Hive Guard, as my suits only have one weapon system that outranges them.

Thank goodness there are so many Nid players that are planning on not using the new codex though (probably just knee jerk reactions, I'm positive we'll be hearing about how awesome their Nids are... in about 2 months), because while Sisters are great for killing bugs, Bugs seem designed to kill Tau.

Lord_Squinty
14-01-2010, 16:04
You get a better biovore but you end up with a crappy pyrovore.

Have GW sorted the nonsense of spore mines giving kill points in the new codex?

Also, how many powers can a psychic hood be used to stop a turn?
I thought it was just one, or am I getting mixed up with force weapons?

SPYDER68
14-01-2010, 16:08
They fixed killpoints on em..

and hood works unlimited times.

Lord_Squinty
14-01-2010, 16:11
Thanks Spyder68

Badger[Fr]
14-01-2010, 16:17
To protect my suits... there isn't really any options out there. Mawlocs will come up where they come up, and I'm going to be in range of Hive Guard, as my suits only have one weapon system that outranges them.

It isn't as bad as it seems: Hive Guards have only AP4 weapons.

Vepr
14-01-2010, 16:19
Seems like the only players that should be worried about the new nid dex are nid players. :p

Gaargod
14-01-2010, 16:22
At least Space Wolf rune weapons are slightly better now. Still 'lol' to an army that relies so much on psychic powers, but better.

Frankly, i'm worried. Because i play them. Mainly because i don't want to have to spend another 200 getting a competitive, varied army. That irritates me.

They have fairly limited anti-tank, probably ganking 1 or 2 a turn. Against mech lists, that's actually not a lot. If you're silly enough to leave your tank in range on an MC with 2 sets of scytals, you may well lose that tank too, but that's frankly your own lookout. Gaunts get mowed down by... anything really. Same as orks, but more expensive and with less T. Ubergaunts hit really hard, i'll give you, but they're an extra 4pts on ork boys, even if they are faster.


Don't get me wrong, i'll still buy the codex, and try them when i get the time. Its just a shame really to get all these sweeping changes, when only a few tweaks were actually necessary to improve the 4th ed book from having a couple of power lists and not much else to being good all round.

Rydmend
14-01-2010, 16:30
The new nids are pretty balanced with a couple quirks.

8 six wound MC lists are already popping up around here consisting of 5 tervigons and 3 trygons. It's pretty intimidating until you see that they really lack any punch and the games all end in draws.

I think the balanced lists of 5-6 MCs with about a dozen or so 40mm models and 60-70 little guys are going to be what you should be looking out for...those seem like they will be the most effective.

I still don't think the new nids will be a top tier army. I think you should still be more afraid of wolves, chaos, nob biker armies and the other favorites for the time being.

EffigyoftheSwarm
14-01-2010, 16:33
I played my first game with the new Nid dex against Space Wolves last night and I faired pretty well considering I wasn't really sure what to expect from my army. I prett ymuch schopol the army, leaving only some Terminators and a Wolf Lord that refused to lie down. I think the OMG NERFED rage is massively misplaced.
EDITED

Cheitan Shadowless
14-01-2010, 16:36
Don't get me wrong, i'll still buy the codex, and try them when i get the time. Its just a shame really to get all these sweeping changes, when only a few tweaks were actually necessary to improve the 4th ed book from having a couple of power lists and not much else to being good all round.
My sentiments exactly. Soft nerfs and soft buffs to the 4th ed. codex were in order and could have created a perfectly balanced army that would not make as many units obsolete as this one seems to have. There was plenty of room for the new units we've received in the 4th ed. codex without stuff like Deathleaper making Lictors largely pointless and Trygons/Mawlocs/Tervigons/Swarmlord making melee fexes and Tyrants appear redundant. A lot of it seems like change for the sake of change, lightly seasoned with attempting to sell shiny new models. The latter never necessitated the former, however, and almost all Tyranid players would have gone and bought Trygons at any rate. Finally, I cannot for the life of me figure out why it was found reasonable to eliminate so many biomorphs, invalidating lots and lots of existing modelling choices. Feeder tendrils, acid maw, flesh hooks, bio-plasma, implant attack, tail weapons; the list of things that are partially or entirely gone goes on. To put it short, this new codex has had me scratching my head so much I must be balding by now.

Am I worried by the new nids, though? No. Fortunately, I already have swathes of Termagants and Hormagaunts, and never built as much as a single Spinegaunt, so no loss there. I only ever bought two post-2nd-ed. Carnifexes, and these can be converted into Tervigons if I want to. I have three of the original metal Screamer-Killers, so I can just use those if I want fexes in my list; double-talon fexes seem to be the best for the points cost at any rate. And all in all, the list seems balanced enough and offers interesting new options that will have me thinking in new directions. The next six months should be lots of fun, both modelling- and gamewise.

PS: I am aware the OP was directed at non-Tyranid players, but Gaargod's statements mirrored my own feelings on the subject too much not to post something! :p