PDA

View Full Version : To paint or not to paint



Dreng Tromm
15-01-2010, 01:42
A couple of weeks ago, I saw a Warhammer game in one of our local hobby stores and I noticed that one of the players fielded an unpainted army (actually, it was base-coated with a primer). I initially thought that the individual was merely play testing a new army but to my surprise, he has been playing with the army for almost two years!

When I asked him about why he has not painted his army, he simply said that he was more into the gaming aspect of the hobby.

This got me thinking.

Personally, I got into the hobby because there is nothing more breath-taking than to see two beautifully painted armies going against each other across a realistic-looking gaming table.

Please do not get me wrong. it is not my intention to judge or belittle hobyyists who do not paint their armies but what I would like to know is just how important it is to fellow hobbyists to field painted armies.

Thanks.

enyoss
15-01-2010, 02:01
Be very careful with threads like this... the last one was flaming like Hell and got several people banned :D.

Anyway, to add something, I think painted armies look great on the battlefield.

However...

... I hate painting more than anything else on Earth, and don't really want to spend what years I have left engaging in an activity I despise when I can barely give time to things I enjoy as it is.This is why my High Elves have been unpainted for 14 years.

Still, I'm looking for gaming groups in my new locale and have decided to try hard get some stuff painted, as if there's one thing I've learnt from threads like this it's that people will hate me like a paedo if I don't :(.

EDIT: In fact, you can see my High Elves in all their ghostly magnificence here http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156929 . It's probably no coincidence I was mainly pitted against the just as idle Tomb Kings player...

Razakel
15-01-2010, 02:07
For a friendly game it doesn't bother me at all, I have fielded a few units which are simply undercoated Chaos Black, and waited quite some time to paint them. Currently all the units in my 2,000 Point Dwarf army are painted, however it truly isn't that important to me.

Like the person you mentioned I played with a lot of unpainted units for a very long time. There is something about two well-painted armies though. Its only really important if your competing in tournaments (here, anyway).

So in my opinion its not that important, some people have busy lives and just assembling the models is a lot of work.

ooglatjama
15-01-2010, 02:14
My painting is so bad that the bare plastic looks better :(

Commodus Leitdorf
15-01-2010, 02:14
Some people like to game more then paint...some people like to paint more then game
Some people like to JUST paint and not play....and some people just like to play and dont enjoy painting.

Doesn't really bother me in the slightest. I'm not the best painter in the world...but sometimes I get the Buzz to get a regiment done so I just throw myself into it till I get bored of the whole thing (I'm usually able to ride the high long enough to get 2 or 3 units painted). Or I have a tournament comign and I got to get everything painted (nothing gets an army painted quite like a tournament)

It is a great thing to watch a beautifully painted army pushed across the field, but at the same time...I just enjoy playing the game. So one way or another it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Red Metal
15-01-2010, 02:24
I love to paint. For me, I always have to field a fully painted army or I just won't play. This has applied to every wargame with minis I've ever played - I've even gone so far as to repaint pre-painted figures like Heroclix and MageKnight. Essentially, I always feel like I'm getting my money's worth out of minis, because in painting mine, I always get the fullest possible effect from the minis.

With that said, I'm fine with playing against unpainted armies. If the other person chooses to miss out on a very rewarding (but non-essential) aspect of the hobby, that's fine with me. If a person does paint their figures, I commend them - even if it's just base coats or the "three color rule". I know how long it can take painting things and think that anyone who puts forth any kind of effort has done very well in my book.

outbreak
15-01-2010, 02:25
I prefer playing painted armies but it would in no way stop me from playing someone if their army wasn't painted. Some of my regular gamers armies haven't been painted and they've had them for years and i guess they just don't like painting. Personally i try not to use an army unless it is painted and in the 7-8 months i've been playing warhammer i've already got my 2500pts of tomb kings fully painted, 3000ish points of dwarfs fully painted and 4000ish pts of skaven fully painted. I enjoy painting though and if nothings on and i'm just hanging around home i'll happily spent the day just painting whereas some people don't like it.

ChaosVC
15-01-2010, 02:50
WOW my favourite topic!

Well I like to paint, convert and paint some more!

FAQ to ChaosVC view on this topic.

1.) Will I be disappointed playing aganist unpainted armies?
Ans: Yes...

2.) Will i play with unpainted models?
Ans: Sometimes but I try to avoid that, the last time I played with an unpainted model was 2 years ago.

3.) Am I bothered by players who have unpainted or partially painted army?
Ans: As long as they show progress, I am fine with playing with them.

4.) What do I think about players who don't even paint their army at all?
Ans: ---Censored---

5.) Would I play with people who don't even bothered to paint?
Ans: Only out of courtesy and that he or she is a very nice person whom I know and like, in which case I will offer to paint his or her army for free/under various conditions.

6.) Have I met any people who nice and doesn't paint their models.
Ans: No, not a single one. And they are usually rules lawyering WAAC and power gamers who don't last long anyway and disappear as time goes by...with an exception of one very rich one who hires people to paint for him and destroy the paint job with a shiny glossy protective coat(face palm).

And luckily I am currently with a group of friends who actually bother and like to paint their armies.

Agnar the Howler
15-01-2010, 02:51
I take far too long on models (and the sheer temperature over here is stopping me from busting the spray primer out, as the only non-enclosed space is bloody freezing) and despise having to hand undercoat everything when the temperture is too extreme for spray primer. So i'm left hand undercoating 2250pts of Lizardmen, 1500pts of Tau and goknowshowmanypts of CSM, which is a bugger to do.

I just need to concentrate on getting my speed and precision up (sounds like i'm levelling an RPG character - i'm currently a level 9 Wargamer, and I need to raise speed and precision to get to level 10) as well as trying to get down to GW on saturdays for some spraying (or, I dunno, wait till that 1 week of mildly warm temperatures (AKA the Great British Summer) we get around june/july and do it then).

AlmightyNocturnus
15-01-2010, 03:03
I concur with 99% of what ChaosVC said (the 1% being that I don`t mind shiny gloss spray coats so much).

Almighty Noturnus

Jind_Singh
15-01-2010, 04:23
its tough - I love painting, its relaxing and the models just come to life. I have been in the hobby since I was 17ish and I'm now going to be 33 this year.

I have NO painted armies what so ever......

:(

I haven't had the time recently, and before I didn't have the skills. I feel bad as when i play certain people I know I'm actually taking away from their overall enjoyment as the game really comes into it's own when you see 2 painted armies battling for domination.

Having said a whole bunch of us formed a painting club in dec, 09, by the end of the month we have to present 250pts painted, and then 500pts each month until we hit 2250

I now have:

20 Night Goblin Archers, full command, FULLY PAINTED with a PAINTED movement tray. The hoods on each archer has it's own distinctive white flame or triangular pattern design.

30 Night Goblins - based, drybrushed grey for the robes, the base edges are graveyard, the flock sand is scorched brown - next is the bleached bone on the sanded flock, and then the gobbos.

2 fanatics - as the spearmen

5 Squig Hoppers - squigs based red, the gobbo skin tones are based

NG Hero on Giant Squig - base coated

So thats exactly 500 points of NG (and a legal army to boot) which will be fully painted by the end of the month - By Gork & Mork it's going to happen!

titos334
15-01-2010, 04:36
I hate painting, although I do have color on almost all of my models. I hate the look of bare plastic or metal so wont play with no paint. However ive been known to just have a base coat on some of the models. Recently I've gotten into painting my Warhammer Daemon army, Nurgle is quite easy to paint and I can churn through them really fast. The army is almost completely done.

I don't mind playing non-painted armies and dont mind using not fully painted armies either. I'd rather face a non-painted army than one that is painted and looks like rubbish but thats just my opinion.

Kloud13
15-01-2010, 04:44
I do not like playing with unpainted miniatures. I also think it is unfair to my opponents if I use unpainted miniatures.

The reason I believe it is unfair to use unpainted mini's, is that a model that is grey plastic, or primed black, is just either a grey blob, or a black blob. The paintjob really helps to identify what units are, and who the characters are.

As a General I view my opponents, I need to be able to recognize what his units are and see where the Characters are, and identify the threats. when they are all black, or grey or white, it makes it hard to do so.

Fantasy isn't as bad, but in 40K, the next step to unpainted miniatures, is partially assembled miniatures. "That guy with no arms has a Plasma Gun." I also find it very handy to have my own guys painted more so in 40K so that I can see the brightly painted power weapon, and remember "Oh yeah, that guy has a Power Weapon!"

The Worst in 40K is all these guys who want to play apocalypse games with unpainted miniatures. That should not be done, and should not be tolerated. Melta guns/plasma guns/bolters/flamers all look exactly the same when they are unpainted. and in apocalypse, you do not have the time to scour over army lists to figure out what one guy has.

Ultimate Life Form
15-01-2010, 04:55
Be very careful with threads like this... the last one was flaming like Hell and got several people banned :D.


Yes, but mostly the bad eggs any way so I say good riddance.

Me, it's not like I would force anyone to paint their army, but, sadly...

I just cannot stand unpainted armies. Everything looks grey/the same, and it drives me crazy. I'm highly color addicted; I love colors, and everything that doesn't have colors makes me mad. Facing an unpainted army is like the return of black and white TV, and as I said I hate that. I do not watch black and white movies except the REAAAAALLY good ones like for example Miss Marple. Well these movies have something that makes them worth enjoyable, namely excellent quality, but an unpainted army obviously has not. It makes the game bland for me, no matter how it actually goes. It ruins my experience to a degree. Logically I cannot stand my own army being unpainted either, so I'll avoid fielding unpainted units wherever possible and try to get the important ones painted asap.

So I don't really care about my opponent's lazyness, they can be as lazy as they want, it really doesn't matter to me, it's just that it ruins my fun so I want to see at least some progress or I'll get angry.

snurl
15-01-2010, 05:07
I made myself a rule a long time ago; It says: If it ain't painted, don't game with it. So I don't use unpainted figures in games. I paint way more than I game anyway.

Do unpainted opponents bother me? Not really. Most of my regular opponents have most of their stuff painted. There was one who never painted, but the games were still fun.

I agree with ChaosVC on most points here, even though the cowardly worm has not answered my challenge from yesterday for what he said about dwarves in another thread. I will beat him in a game, or he can have my beard. :skull:

TMATK
15-01-2010, 05:25
I paint because I enjoy it. If I didn't then I wouldn't, and I wouldn't care what anyone else thought about it.

Foxhound_808
15-01-2010, 05:52
I personally don't understand how people can enjoy games with or against unpainted armies. For me, it just doesn't seem thematic or interesting. I don't mind a few units here or there unpainted but for the most part I like to see a little effort, especially considering how much time I put into my models.

I hate to say it, but sometimes I'm almost offended by gamers who don't paint their armies. It seems to show a certain lack of regard for the spirit of the hobby (you buy assemble paint your army, then battle your friends). If painting is such a big issue for people, there are games with pre-painted miniatures (and some of them, like AT-43, look really good). I don't even care about the quality of anyone's painting either as long as it reflects some effort.

someone2040
15-01-2010, 06:01
I think everyone should attempt to make progress on their army. If you're forking out the cash, for all those expensive models, why not attempt to make them look a bit nicer?

For me, it's not a matter of I won't play with unpainted miniatures. In fact, last game, I think about only half my army was painted. However, it's more along the lines that I don't assemble too far into the future. I paint one unit while assembling/converting another. So while I'm in the middle of painting my Voland's Venators, my Bearmen of Urslo I had only just about finished assembling (Still a few more pieces to put together). I only proxyed my standard bearer because I'm spending a great deal of time greenstuffing the standard.

So yeah. I'm more a modeller and fluff guy I suppose. I don't play lots of games, so when a game comes up, I'm not going to be ungrateful because my opponents army is grey. However, if a game came up against them a month later, I think I'd be a bit dissapointed if there wasn't a bit of progress in their army.

ChaosVC
15-01-2010, 06:25
I made myself a rule a long time ago; It says: If it ain't painted, don't game with it. So I don't use unpainted figures in games. I paint way more than I game anyway.

Do unpainted opponents bother me? Not really. Most of my regular opponents have most of their stuff painted. There was one who never painted, but the games were still fun.

I agree with ChaosVC on most points here, even though the cowardly worm has not answered my challenge from yesterday for what he said about dwarves in another thread. I will beat him in a game, or he can have my beard. :skull:

*Butt flash snurl then dance around with my cloak of beardy beards*

blackjack
15-01-2010, 06:40
I do not really enjoy painting, but I hate fielding an unpainted army more. So generally I play test a month or two with unpainted figs to find out what I really want. then I paint like a daemon for 2 months while still playing. then My army is fully painted and I play in tournaments for about 2-3 months. then it's time for a new army... :D

rinse and repeat. So about 50% of the time I am playing with at least some unpainted figs in my army.

Ronin_eX
15-01-2010, 07:02
Doesn't bother me any. Painting, like all the rest of the hobby should be something fun and not a chore. If people feel like painting is a chore then they shouldn't paint anymore than people who dislike optimizing lists should research the most efficient way to play their army. People get different things out of the hobby and there is no one true way to do it.

So I say let it be and just get on with the parts I enjoy and let others do likewise. Life is too short to expect people to have fun in the same way as you, especially when you could both be having fun instead.

I tend to dislike painting massed ranks of troops so I work on those slowly but with the various small skirmish games I play I enjoy sitting down with 1-3 minis and painting them up over the course of a few days. Probably why my Infinity army is much further along than my dwarfs (and not on a ratio but on a model to model basis :D).

JRD4
15-01-2010, 07:29
The only thing that bothers me concerning painted or not painted armies is in tournaments. I really don't like tournaments that make paint a soft score or even worse don't even judge painting. During a friendly game I could honestly care less either way because we are playing to test our lists and simply enjoy playing.

Kloud13
15-01-2010, 07:54
Like I've said, the next step down from unpainted is unassembled. A guy in my club challenged me to a game, and he pointed at 5 Calvary bases, and said "Those are Blood Knights." Or else for 2 months another guy had a Monster base with a couple unprimed pieces of a tomb scorpion on it.

Fantasy isn't as bad however. The paint isn't as nessisary as in Fantasy as you don't so much play with individual models but rather units. In 40K Painting is essential. if your mini's arn't painted, You just don't spot the Plasma rifles, or if you playing against a non marine army it can become a real pain figuring out which unit is which. But the worst and I'll say it again, is "That guy with no arms has a plasma pistol and Powerfist." (or whatever.)

The reason I bring 40K into this, because whatever standard that should be met in one sysytem should be met in both systems. Pushing for this leads to consistency, and we all benefit from that.

PeG
15-01-2010, 08:19
Painted models look better and I do enjoy playing against well painted armies but will play against almost anything as long as I know what is what on the board. However I do encourage people to do at least some basic painting. I have a friend who also plays WE who has painted his elves with elven flesh, goblin green and then washed them with catachan green and it looks decent without him spending more than a couple of minutes / model

On the other hand I have also played multiple games against unpainted /primed models or armies with several proxies and dont really have a problem with it.

wbravenboer
15-01-2010, 08:24
If I would not play against unpainted armies, I could never play a game! ;) Of course it is more fun having two painted armies, be it fantasy or 40k, but not everyone has the will, time or capacity to paint a lot of models. Some people paint beautiful models, but it takes them a while, so if they want to use the models, fine. I do agree however with the statement about unfinished models, just a base is confusing... It can be that someone wants to test a unit he wants to buy and places some halberdiers who are suddenly High Elf Swordmasters...

Tambarskjelve
15-01-2010, 08:30
I love painted armies, but I'm a sloow painter and I rarely find time to paint that much. So I cut a few corners in trying to at least field somewhat painted armies.

I'm trying to improve my painting, but my goal is not to paint better and better, but getting faster to the approved standard. Incidentally my painting does get better, but that is just a side effect :P

I want to play with painted models, so in order to field them fast I just coated my dark riders black and painted skin and metal on them, and the base. They don't really look finished, but they look ok-ish for playing.
The problem is that I have so much else to paint, that they will probably stay like that for at least a few more years :(

But it's a compromise I'm willing to accept :P

The Red Scourge
15-01-2010, 08:31
Can't say, I understand why people play the game, if not for the models. The rules are a mess, the balance has gone the way of the poodle and grey plastic/bare metal is about as aestethically pleasing as a filled ashtray :p The only thing good about the game is the stories it tells and bringing them to life, and this is obviously best done with all the trimmings; painted armies/good terrain/a nice gaming table.

That said. There is a lot of work in making it come to life. Some people aren't as willing/lack the ability to dedicate as much of their time to it as others, and thats fine by me - though it is nice seeing some progress, be it just a single infantryman a month :)

What really is important, is whether the other person is fun to spend the hours with, it takes to play the game.

ChaosVC
15-01-2010, 08:35
What really is important, is whether the other person is fun to spend the hours with, it takes to play the game.

Thats what Confucius would say if he plays warhammer.

Lordsaradain
15-01-2010, 08:46
Personally, I got into the hobby because there is nothing more breath-taking than to see two beautifully painted armies going against each other across a realistic-looking gaming table.


I totally agree with this. I never feild unpainted models if I can avoid it.

Radium
15-01-2010, 09:09
If you don't like painting, that's fine. However, I do feel painting your army is an important part of this hobby and you should (eventually) get it done. Whether you do it yourself or fork over some cash to get someone to do it for doesn't matter. Playing this game is all about social contracts, and having a painted army is part of that.

But I know people will disagree with me, oh well.

Agnar the Howler
15-01-2010, 09:21
Fantasy isn't as bad, but in 40K, the next step to unpainted miniatures, is partially assembled miniatures. "That guy with no arms has a Plasma Gun." I also find it very handy to have my own guys painted more so in 40K so that I can see the brightly painted power weapon, and remember "Oh yeah, that guy has a Power Weapon!"

Personally, I can tell what each weapon looks like whether painted or unpainted, so it's never been a huge issue for me and i'll play against any army that's legal. But that's not the main issue; the main issue is that people are still trying to game with unassembled or partially assembled miniatures. The only thing i've seen where that's happened is models that have broken during the game (like being smacked across the table by a rogue tape measure or dropped) and that was 1 or 2.

Anyone that asks me to play against them with the Partially Made Chapter gets a resounding "No."

mattjgilbert
15-01-2010, 09:25
Well painting is part of the wider hobby but many people want to play games instead. If you like or can tolerate painting, it can only enhance the enjoyment you get out the hobby and the games you play. When both armies are painted it's even better.

I dislike having my own models unpainted and avoid it as much as possible. I do understand that other people either don't have the time, skill or desire to paint though so do not mind playing against unpainted armies so long as it's clear what is what.

The increase in the number of people and companies offering painting services helps those who cannot or do not want to paint their own models, but of course that boils down to spending money instead of time.

MasterSparks
15-01-2010, 09:26
The process of painting feels like something of a chore for me, although the end results is usually well worth it. I'll play with and against pretty much anything regardless of its state. :)

viking657
15-01-2010, 09:59
I think theres more to it than simply not wanting to play against a non painted army.

I have to admit as I've grown older I do find myself choosing to play against painted vs unpainted armies and can't bring myself to field unpainted ones.

The main problem I find with some gamers, but certainly not all, who choose not to paint is that generally their army is falling apart. It can be poorly assembled and metal models tend to collapse halfway through the battle which is really annoying and makes the game drag whilst they carry out field repairs or they then simply clear away the broken bits and I find myself battling the left leg of a dragon stuck on a base.

Plus more in 40k than fantasy it can be difficult to see whos who on the battlefield if they used a chaos black undercoat and I feel when gaming I should be trying to outhink my enemy not strain my eyes to figure out who the hell that model is.

I will play against non painted armies but all too often the opponent uses a cardboard box or a sock to carry their army to the game as they haven't put any love into the appearance of the army and I find myself watching them squint to identifiy models as they set up and I find myself facing deadly dragon legs, headless horses and an entrie High elf spearman regiment who haven't got a single unbroken spear between them.

Forgot to add that although I'm a pretty good painter I'm not bothered if the opponent is a good painter or not only that theres some paint on it and I can see what it is.
One of my mates is a terrible painter, he's just started collecting nids ready for the release and at my suggestion, because he's no intention of painting them, he sprayed em white then used the spray gun to spray them using the purple wash. Ok so he hasn't painted his army but its much better than white or black, everything is clear on what it is and the nice uniform colour works he's even based a few models (doesn't mind doing that) and to be honest it looks pretty good and enjoyable to play against.

AramilSairSianontel
15-01-2010, 10:08
I have a rule, which i keep (almost) religiously. If something in MY ARMY, is not painted, it doesn't see the field of battle. Bases i do 96% of the times but when they're not done i frown at myself.
As for my opponents...well, things varry.
I have played against fully painted armies which are always beautiful to behold, and i've played against full base armies-i mean the blackguard of one model (and that model was a necromancer btw) and one movement tray, bases for shades, bases for executioners etc etc...bloodletters for furies, bloodletters for horrors, bloodletters for bloodletters, not painted armies, etc etc...
Overall i don't tell my opponent what to play with, but i love the sight of a well-painted army or two on the tabletop and that's the reason i play warhammer after all.
I'm a visual guy after all. If someone just likes the playing aspect of the game, i would advice them to leave behind them the painting part. It's time consuming and hard. Many major players in my group, ppl who have money to spend, and take part in tournaments in which the armies need to be painted, pay others to paint their armies. For some this is a solution, as they don't have the time or patience or skill to paint an entire army and make it look good.

P.s.
I'm not one of those guys, i paint my boys to the very last- i love the process.

P.s.2
Remember the story about the "base" black guard? Someone told me once that i'm a "trash" player, meaning i love the game so much, that i don't care who i'm playing against. He was right, to a certain point. I love my armies so much. And i don't play anyone anymore.

lord ugwart
15-01-2010, 10:10
I would prefer to play against a painted army, however it is so time consuming that a lot of people just can't be bothered.
I think this is a shame, mainly due to the fact that I play alot of smaller sized games these days and the models i have painted have taken on a life of their own (to me at least) and each one is viewed as an individual.
It's not as much fun when my opponents army is just a lump of unpainted grey plastic.
Bottom line is, if I'm going to shell out £20+ on a unit you better damn well believe that i'm going to paint it!

ivrg
15-01-2010, 10:40
If you play with painted armies you get a greater "gamefeeling" and that is why i would recomend everybody to paint thier armies. But to paint an army doesnt have to be rocket science. If you dont like painting then use dipping.

I saw a tyranid army which was basecoated white and painted with burnished gold on some areas. It then went straight down the dip and looked great!

So there is no need for eavy metal standard painting or feeling bad cause you cant paint very good. Just go for a simpel colour scheme and then down with the minis in the dipp.

kris.sherriff
15-01-2010, 10:42
I used to enjoy the gaming side of the hobby a lot more than painting and have fielded a lot of primed only armies in my time.
I never set out to buy my army just for gaming with no intention to paint it but it just turned out that way most of the time, for example I have been playing my Empire over a few editions still struggle to field a fully painted 2000 point list.

I am now more in the minds set that I can enjoy painting and like to put a painted army on the table. I will still play with WiP stuff but I am always working on something to make progress on one list or another.

The only thing I do feel strongly about is that I have been to a few tournaments where it was a requirement to field a fully painted army. I have worked hard to get my list finished in time and get their and end up playing against armies that are not painted.
Now that really grinds my gears.

Kris

AramilSairSianontel
15-01-2010, 10:46
The only thing I do feel strongly about is that I have been to a few tournaments where it was a requirement to field a fully painted army. I have worked hard to get my list finished in time and get their and end up playing against armies that are not painted.
Now that really grinds my gears.

Kris
Well that IS annoying. It happened to me a few times in the past too.

theunwantedbeing
15-01-2010, 10:56
The people who use unpainted models that bug me are the ones that give nonsensical claims about not having any time to paint and that they are only there to game.

You did not:
-seem rushed when you arrived at the store
-unpack your army at a record pace
-speed through the game hurridly
-pack your army up at the end with any real speed
-immediately leave the store after the game

Instead you:
-were here when I arrived and had been here for a couple of hours already
-had yet to play anyone
-took ages setting up
-did not rush, infact I had to slow the game down so you could keep up
-had no clue of half the rules
-cheated
-had no armylist nor book
-stuck around afterwards

And I am to belive that you have no time to paint your army and only like to game?

zoggin-eck
15-01-2010, 11:13
What I don't understand is how easy it is to make an army look better than just bare metal/plastic, even with no painting talent or even interest.

Even something as simple as black undercoat, drybrush all metal with one colour, drybrush skin another, drybrush rest another colour. Blue for blue marines, brown for Skaven, red for warriors with mark of Khorne etc.

Even one colour, or spraying one colour with a wash over the top.

then just neatly base each model, or even just drybrush bases brown or grass green and use the little texture already there!

This alone would make it easier on the eye, or even obvious what army (in the case of which space marine, Chaos god etc.). Even a single different colour per unit will help.

One thing I can understand though, is if people really were "in it just for the game" then perhaps unpainted armies are better as you can re-sell them easily when the next codex comes out, edition or when you change your mind?

MasterSparks
15-01-2010, 11:45
The people who use unpainted models that bug me are the ones that give nonsensical claims about not having any time to paint and that they are only there to game.


While it's true that most likely anyone with the time on their hands to actually play Warhammer would be able to fit some painting into their schedule, some people (like myself) just don't think that it's a very fun thing to do. Having school and other time-consuming interests to progress can make it even harder to slough through something that's not amazingly enjoyable simply because "you should" or "have to" do it.

I do it anyway though because, like I said in an earlier post, seeing stuff painted on the tabletop makes the effort worth it. :)

Odin
15-01-2010, 11:52
Be very careful with threads like this... the last one was flaming like Hell and got several people banned :D.

Anyway, to add something, I think painted armies look great on the battlefield.

However...

... I hate painting more than anything else on Earth, and don't really want to spend what years I have left engaging in an activity I despise when I can barely give time to things I enjoy as it is.This is why my High Elves have been unpainted for 14 years.

Still, I'm looking for gaming groups in my new locale and have decided to try hard get some stuff painted, as if there's one thing I've learnt from threads like this it's that people will hate me like a paedo if I don't :(.

EDIT: In fact, you can see my High Elves in all their ghostly magnificence here http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156929 . It's probably no coincidence I was mainly pitted against the just as idle Tomb Kings player...

This pretty much sums up how I feel as well. The only thing more tedious than painting miniatures is cleaning off the mould lines and putting them together.

I've got some stuff nearly painted, and I'm a pretty good painter. But after about 18 years collecting a Chaos army the only fully painted models I have are a Khorne Lord on a Manticore, a Chimera (both of which were removed from the army books immediately after I finished painting them, though the Maticore is now back thankfully!), and one Ogre. I wish my armies were fully painted, but I just don't have the patience.

Warsmith Tharak
15-01-2010, 11:57
My grup folows a simpel rule: if it is not painted, it is usless... Last year I painted around 45 chaos warriors, 151 orks(40K) and ca 40 daemons. I have a wife, 3 kids and work but I am still finding the time. 1-2 houres after the kids have fallen to sleep 4 dayes a week and every tuesday from 1715-2130. Tuesday are my "night-off" and 9 times out of 10 it is painting the last day are playing.

I am more of a player than a painter...

GodSlayer
15-01-2010, 12:08
I'm tempted to say that if you're not painting your models, you're missing half the fun. You might as well try to collect Magic(TM) cards. Put money, have a lot.
When forking out 50$ for a bunch of 5 plastic figurines, I want to have the maximum out of it. Assembling is required (base gaming does not make fun games: play checkers), but the feeling of color makes it more interesting.

I prime all my units in one shot. I see the difference between the basecoat and the finished product. And even if I'm not the best painter, colors add to depth of the game. Heck, I know someone who painted his BfSP goblins the way on the booklet (black robes/green skin/metal tip and shield/brown lance). I find it way better looking than the grey initial stage.

But, I accept playing unpainted ones. The game is the game, and I have yet to find someone who just says that he won't do it at all.

Toshiro
15-01-2010, 12:09
I prefer playing with painted armies as it looks cooler... but by god I hate painting them, but it is a necessary evil... it takes time and the results are... well... perhaps TT standard but not much more... but I do try :)

Odin
15-01-2010, 12:11
I think my main problem is actually that I'm too good at painting. For years I painted every model like it was a Golden Demon entry.

The new foundation paints and washes have been a revelation though. I've probably painted more in the couple of years since they were released than I did in the previous 15 years. I just need to keep it simple and not get carried away.

Agnar the Howler
15-01-2010, 12:26
This pretty much sums up how I feel as well. The only thing more tedious than painting miniatures is cleaning off the mould lines and putting them together.

Do not get me started on mould lines ¬.¬ As soon as I put a painting log up on another forum back when I was starting to paint, all I got was "Remove your mould lines!!!111" amongst some assorted "OMFG highlight your models!!!111!!!"

Bearing in mind this was 3 years ago and I had just started the hobby and hadn't picked up a paint brush since reception (or kindergarten for you non-brits) it kinda irked me that nobody made any good comments on anything I put up, no encouragement, just nit-picking, telling me to blend, highlight and remove mould lines... it didn't really make me want to paint anything, so I didn't, and they're the only models of my chaos army that i've painted, all 4 of them...

Tau was easier since it's all basically lego battlesuits and flat surfaces on everything else, but I got bored of basecoating 1.5k points Hawk Turquoise early on, and my lizardmen would get done quicker if, like everything else I owned, they were spray primed, hand undercoating 2250pts of lizards is a PAIN!

Glabro
15-01-2010, 12:46
I really don't enjoy painting. It's a chore that takes up hundreds of hours per army. However, I'm a bit of an all-or-nothing type, and have forced myself to accept the idea that I won't play without a painted army.


I haven't played in years except for the odd game or two with my old, defunct Alpha Legionnaires who lost their infiltration.

The problem is compounded because I prefer horde armies or masses of troops even for marines, and can't break down the army painting into multiple small portions - it's just one huge project. Even though I usually only do a base coat + varnish (polyurethane dip), it still takes ages to complete.

However, there is still hope: with the help of a new friend, I've painted most of my ork army, and the Space Wolves inspire me enough so that I think they'll eventually be painted too.

And failing that, there's always painting services.

sigur
15-01-2010, 12:52
I prefer playing with painted armies as it looks cooler... but by god I hate painting them, but it is a necessary evil... it takes time and the results are... well... perhaps TT standard but not much more... but I do try :)

I think that this is the right attitude. You may see it as a necessary evil but it's got to be done. I firmly believe that an army just is not yours and has no soul until you painted it. As mentioned above, even the most basic painting improves the looks of an army so much and nowadays, with foundation paints and washes that work perfectly well, it's possible to pull that off pretty quickly. See it this way; if you painted an army, you did something unique and very personal that lasts. Maybe I overestimate the worth of that but if you compare it to hundreds of hours of XP-grinding on some MMORPG (example), what's left in the end? You quit, the character is deleted after a year or so and that's it.



@Agnar the Howler: Well, did you ask for feedback in your log? What did you expect, you know that there are mould lines and you know how to remove them. And you know as well that paintjobs are worth only 50% if there are mould lines showing clearly. Don't slag people who want to give productive feedback off by the multiple exclamation marks and numbers. These are reserved for whiners and powergamers. ;)

@Odin: Poor you. :p

Nighthawke
15-01-2010, 13:52
i prefer not to paint, its just something i find time consuming and totally boring, which gets me told off at my GW since they say its part of the hobby and that if i dont like it i shouldnt do the hobby,
which i thinks completely unfair, and yes i have basecoated them all black.
also i do have the problem of being rubbish at painting and they do actually look better black then painted but whatever :)

Odin
15-01-2010, 15:24
Bearing in mind this was 3 years ago and I had just started the hobby and hadn't picked up a paint brush since reception (or kindergarten for you non-brits)

Well, I'm British, and even I needed that clarification. Never heard of "reception" used to mean nursery school. :confused:

N810
15-01-2010, 16:03
Well my gaming comunity consist of me and a few friends.... no shop, no tournies, no other players within 60 miles... :(

So I have an army that's about 1/2 painted... Every body ealse only has a unit or two painted... some because they got them that way from eBay. Fo I often face armies of
empty bases, or unprimed or raw models... But hey I am glad for any game I get to play.

Ps. I hope when my crew sees my painted Lizards it will encourage then to paint some of theirs. :D

Ryan814
15-01-2010, 16:14
I personally don't have that big of an issue with it either way, as long as the dude your playing with is cool to play against that seems more important. Some times its easy to get discouraged about painting especially when your new, I can remember one of the hard core painter guys asking me if I was going to finish painting my original Tau minis.... after I had laboured for hours to produce crap paint jobs on them. I think the hard core paint on minis crowd has a bit of a responsibility to promote it as an interesting aspect of the hobby, while encouraging newbies like me on how to improve.

Should make things better for everyone, more painted mini's to play against while helping people 'want' to paint there armies and open them up to an interesting, if often fustrating part of the hobby.

Kloud13
15-01-2010, 17:16
"I don't have time." is now a poor excuse. with the new Washes, even the crap paintjobs can be turned beautifull in seconds with a splash of of a wash.

I painted 40 zombies in about 3 hours one night. I just grabbed random colours of the foundation paints to paint their clothing. I used Talleran flesh on about half the flesh parts, rotting flesh on the other half the zombies. had a couple different tones of brown for the boots. (I only used one tone of brown per boot.) little bit of red with purple spots on the guts, then I hit everything with Devlan Mud, and a splash of the Red wash around their wounds, and such, and BANG, I was done, and they look great.

My point is, the washes turn everyone into master painters.

The hardest part about painting really is touching the brush loaded with paint against the first mini in that unit. as soon as you start, you will be done before you know it.

I try and paint my guys in units of 10. I find 10 guys is not very overwhelming, and can easily be accomplished in an evening. (And I mean the Rank n file guys, the guys who do not need the really fancy paintjob.) and you look at most army lists, the model count is usually around 100 models at the top end, well you do 10 rank n file guys a night, and then spend a night or 2 on the few individual models that need it. You will be amazed on how quickly a painted army can magically appear .

I find there is a strange transformation a model goes through when it is being painted. When I start painting, at first the model just looks like hell, but as you start to finish the model, it just keeps lookin worse I think, but suddenly close to the end, it hits you that the model actually looks pretty good. then hit it with a wash, and you ask yourself "Did I really just paint this?" It's a good feeling.

Drakcore Bloodtear
15-01-2010, 17:54
I think my main problem is actually that I'm too good at painting. For years I painted every model like it was a Golden Demon entry.


That's my problem to, I'm a perfectionist so I can spend hours on one modal
Which may sound good but I play O&G so...
"Yes my Warboss is complete after 4 hours dead painting, aw crap I forgot the 110 orc boys"

Also I'm a mood painter so I can only paint when I feel like it, so recently I've had a couple of days off but can't paint because I can't undercoat due to the snow.
Damn you nature, why do you mock me so? :mad:

Fjoergyn
15-01-2010, 18:43
Well, I have more or less 4000-5000 points of skaven, and a lot of grey minis, 80 clanrats, the giant rats... The rest is painted, but I have no time and no patient to paint 80 clanrats (oh god, they are freaking ugly and I have to repair them first...). The slaves are goblins that I painted when I was in the institute.

One of our better painters at the gaming group have more or less 20000 points of Empire, 4000 points of Brettonians, 8000 points of lizzies and 4000 points of Dwarves. 8000 points of empire and the Dwarves are unpainted. He contracted diabetes and lost total visibility in one eye and 50% in the other. It has closed boxes of miniatures that can not mount, or paint. The day that we play a game, we later assemble some boxes to gain free space. Play with a magnifying glass to see the units away, he is a good general, but I wouldn´t like to see one saying they could not play against its unpainted dwarves :(

For my part, I played once against invisible warriors of chaos (only the base). I think the important thing is to have fun and if your opponent has fun you too will end up having fun.

enyoss
15-01-2010, 19:01
The people who use unpainted models that bug me are the ones that give nonsensical claims about not having any time to paint and that they are only there to game.

You did not:
-seem rushed when you arrived at the store
-unpack your army at a record pace
-speed through the game hurridly
-pack your army up at the end with any real speed
-immediately leave the store after the game


Do I have to do the above to show I don't have the time to paint :confused:? I'm a pretty busy man, but even I don't manage to account for every minute of the day.

If someone had a gun to my head, I'm sure I could find free time to paint. All I'm saying is that if it comes to speeding through games, the part of the hobby I enjoy, just to free up 30 minutes a day to paint, which I can't abide, then I'm not going to paint.

Now replace the phrase `speeding through games' above with any one of `less socializing with friends', `less dining out with my girlfriend', `less surfing', `giving up language lessons', `watching less films', `less time to simply relax' etc., and maybe now you can see why I don't paint.

When it comes to the painting issue, I'm always amazed at the intolerance many players show to the fact that I don't enjoy doing what they enjoy doing. Really, it's absurd.

EDIT: That last point wasn't really aimed at you unwantedbeing, it's just a general observation from the threads that have popped up about this over the years :).

Skyros
15-01-2010, 19:14
I hate fielding an unpainted army. Sometimes due to time constraints this is necessary, but my goal is always to paint it. Modeling and converting and painting the figures is half the fun. I'm not sure there's much point to converting your units if you're not going paint them, and if you're not going to paint them why bother removing mold lines, and then your units all look pretty messy etc.

The game looks much better with two fully painted armies. However, that is a time consuming process.

I do enjoy slowly watching my army becoming more and more painted. Seems to be a great source of satisfaction.

Basic paint jobs, with the foundation paints and inks, aren't even that difficult anymore.

The SkaerKrow
15-01-2010, 19:31
I do my best not to field unpainted figures these days (a radical departure from how I handled myself when I got back into Warhammer with 6th Edition!). I'm willing to field models that are partially painted, but I never run bare figures anymore.

I don't mind playing against an unpainted army, but I will always choose to play against an opponent with a painted force over a player with an unpainted one.

Malorian
15-01-2010, 20:34
The trick is to play against color-blind opponents...

On a side note, my dog hasn't beaten me yet!

Venomizer
15-01-2010, 20:42
for years a bad combination of being a perfectionist and a severe lack of motivation is the reason that I'd have rather eaten my own face then face painting.

However, I've come to realise that it's a necessary evil, so coming up with simple colour schemes and not being overly ambitious should help with the perfectionist part of the equation, now to get around my motivation stumbling block.....

Kloud13
15-01-2010, 22:13
Here is the Uphill struggle.

Take an unpainted mini in your left hand, hold a brush in your right hand. dip the brush in a paintpot, then touch the brush against the mini.

As soon as that first speck of paint hits the mini, it's all downhill from there.

Anvilbrow
16-01-2010, 00:22
Ahh, the oldest argument on Portent.. err, Warseer.

I am one of the "hated" non-painters. I have roughly more models than could be painted in three lifetimes. I love collecting and playing, painting bores me, makes my back hurt and frankly, with the limited time I have available it usually comes down to paint or play. I choose play EVERY time.

That's not to say I have no painted minis. ON the contrary I have ~15k painted but that represents a small portion of what I have yet to do.

And I should point out that I have yet to receive a single complaint about playing against my non-painted armies (that I'm privy to).

Most of my gaming "talent," which does not manifest itself on the playing surface, is invested in scenario design, fun house rules, organizing leagues and campaigns etc. (see my batrep thread on Beerhammer).

And by the way, I also allow all of my regular opponents to use my armies when we have game night, sometimes trundling four or five complete armies to the LGS for others to use, something I wouldn't do were my forces all painted. Does that make me a Warhammer prostitute..?

I have been playing/collecting Warhammer for over a quarter century and in that time have painted forces for numerous systems, but with career, wife, children etc, my hobby time is severely limited. I'm lucky to get one three-hour window of opportunity a week to play, and I rarely will spend that painting as I believe the hobby should be relaxing for ME.

If on occasion, I do offend others with my ugly lead forces (I prefer NPM- non-paint metallics) I wouldn't be offended to be refused a game, I don't have the time or energy to waste on pleasing others and I wouldn't want them to suffer through a game for my sake either.

leadlair
16-01-2010, 00:32
I am a huge painter so for me I like to field painted armies. Now when it comes to people I play I only play people I have fun playing against.

So if you have a painted army (no matter how well painted it is) and I don't like playing you or just do not like you I will not play with you. On the other hand if I have a good time playing with you I will not care if you field unprimed metal. Just make sure it is standing on its base.

burad
16-01-2010, 00:33
I won't play with unpainted minis.
Nothing of mine leaves the workbench until it's done.
The whole point of using minis is the visual aspect. Otherwise it's a board game.

SnakeWind
16-01-2010, 00:47
I hate painting too.

But the thing I love most is converting. I convert whole armies and every model in my armies. I love it, and spend all my time in it. It's a shame really, that I can't find the will to paint them good also...

enyoss
16-01-2010, 01:11
Ahh, the oldest argument on Portent.. err, Warseer.

...

If on occasion, I do offend others with my ugly lead forces (I prefer NPM- non-paint metallics) I wouldn't be offended to be refused a game, I don't have the time or energy to waste on pleasing others and I wouldn't want them to suffer through a game for my sake either.

Gah, I wish I'd put it that well :p. Nice post.

Kloud13
16-01-2010, 01:14
There are some people out there who legititamly (spell?) do not have the time to paint.

I also believe those same people do not have time to troll the forums either.

"I don't have time." what a convienient excuse. But too many people confuse "lack of time" with "lack of will."

Others out there are....well.....foolish in my opinion. I'm refering to the people who have purchased 5000pts of one army, 7000pts of another army, 12000pts of another army, and so forth, and have them all assembled but nothing painted. QUIT BUYIN, and start paintin.

It's a moronic argument that you shouldn't have to paint because you own too many miniatures.

Duke Georgal
16-01-2010, 01:19
As in the last time...

No unpainted armies are allowed in my house. I will not play against unpainted armies. I will never field an unpainted army.

For playtesting ideas, I have an entire "generic" army of decorated wooden pawns on appropriately sized bases.

Who does not have time to paint? I run a difficult business and raised three daughters. I still painted. If you say you don't have time, you are just admitting to poor time management skills.

The hobby is about all aspects of miniature wargaming. If you are just gaming, and not painting, then play board games. The games are better and no one will look down on for for not painting.

Seriously... No more excuses and find out what you are missing.

Todosi
16-01-2010, 01:57
For my army I will not field an unpainted miniature. I really do like painting though.

For my opponent's doesn't much matter to me. I may give you some good natured ribbing about playing with bare plastic, but I don't really care.

enyoss
16-01-2010, 02:12
There are some people out there who legititamly (spell?) do not have the time to paint.

I also believe those same people do not have time to troll the forums either.

"I don't have time." what a convienient excuse. But too many people confuse "lack of time" with "lack of will."


What about lack of want? I have spare moments in my day which I spend doing things I enjoy, like surfing Warseer (although I'm not sure I'm enjoying this bashing :(). Why would someone spend their free time doing something they don't enjoy :confused:.


As in the last time...
Who does not have time to paint? I run a difficult business and raised three daughters. I still painted. If you say you don't have time, you are just admitting to poor time management skills.

Seriously... No more excuses and find out what you are missing.

I have painted before, I have tried, and tried, and tried to enjoy it. I even have a handful of completed models. But the amount of satisfaction I derive from it is very close to zero. In fact, I just get even more depressed when I realize that I've wasted X-amount of time doing something I hate.

For you, it sounds like what quiet moments you get are well spent painting your models as you really enjoy doing this. That's great :)! Unfortunately it's just not my thing.

As I said before, I really can't understand why the painting crowd hate the non-painters so viciously :(. I haven't made any disparaging comments about players with painted armies, not one. It seems like a bit of an extreme reaction to something very petty... a bit like the people who want to stick poor Hannah Montana's head on a pike.

Anyway, I've said my piece and don't want to pick a fight, so I'm out.

LKHERO
16-01-2010, 02:16
I haven't painted anything since 2007 when I sold off all my Grey Knights.

I used to be the kind that refuses to play before he paints.. but that went to hell after I found out how fun the game was. I think it also has a lot to do with the guys you hang out with. Gamers encourage more games while gifted painters want to paint more.

I'd like to follow this up a little bit more. I have 5 Armies atm. I have spent a lot of money into this hobby. It's my money, my time and I can choose to do whatever I want with it. A lot of people frown at me because I don't have painted models. I don't really care because my particular enjoyment of this hobby is not the painting aspect , it's the actual gaming aspect. I love the design of the armies, the fluff and the balance. I will eventually get to my little dudes with paint.. but for now I'll play them whenever they have time.

mrtn
16-01-2010, 04:05
The new foundation paints and washes have been a revelation though. I've probably painted more in the couple of years since they were released than I did in the previous 15 years. I just need to keep it simple and not get carried away.
Yeah, buying the wash set is the best choice I've made in my hobby "career". :)

In 1½ years I've painted more than 3000 points of skaven, while painting other things as well. Most parts of my skaven only have basecoat and wash, but they look remarkably good despite that.

I think it's fun to play with and against painted armies. I do occasionally play with unpainted minis (like the sorry case of my marauder horsemen who've been unpainted for a year :(), but I progress steadily, and get more and more painted.

w3rm
16-01-2010, 04:55
I didnt used to mind but many of my main opponents have unpainted armies. I think it is boring so I am trying to instigate a 1250 point pyramid campaign where the entire army must have 3 colors but not based. Id rather see sloppy painting than grey plastic. In a pick up game at a foreign GW I dont mind but when you play the same primed army over and over it gets boring. I am not saying I have my entire army painted but I try to paint around a unit a month or so.

TheAmazingAntman
16-01-2010, 05:56
First off, I love painting. Second off, I'm not trying to troll here. However…

I love the perception that players with unpainted armies are "lazy". I would totally have a fully painted army if I didn't, you know have to: go to school / have a full time job / maintain a relationship / engage in other real world commitments. Painting takes a long and most people I game with just don’t have the time to paint, so yeah…lay off!

Over my many years of war gaming I've noticed that the amount of painting I get done is inversely proportional to…well...real world responsibility.

Anvilbrow
16-01-2010, 06:32
"I don't have time." what a convienient excuse. But too many people confuse "lack of time" with "lack of will."

Others out there are....well.....foolish in my opinion. I'm refering to the people who have purchased 5000pts of one army, 7000pts of another army, 12000pts of another army, and so forth, and have them all assembled but nothing painted. QUIT BUYIN, and start paintin.

It's a moronic argument that you shouldn't have to paint because you own too many miniatures.

Well thank you for educating me sir. It's comforting to know there are people out there who know more than me about how I should live my life.

And for the record, it's more like 10,000 points of one army, 12,000 of another and 20,000 of another and so forth. I CHOOSE to buy, build, convert and play armies, I PREFER it to painting.

As for lack of time versus lack of will, in a sense you are absolutely right, but I'm not confused about the meaning, I simply have limited time and a lot of responsibilities (things I MUST do) and quite frankly, even more things I'd like to do. In the process of prioritization of my limited resource (time) painting is way down the list.

I heartily commend those of you who love to paint, are very good painters (I'm not bad myself- always solid painting scores at USGTs) and love to play beautifully painted and converted armies myself. In fact, in the event that I run into someone who simply prefers to not play against an unpainted army, if I really want to play that individual, I'll bring one of my painted armies, but that'll limit my army choice, which for me limits my fun to a degree.

I happened across this thread while perusing the forum as I do from time to time, offered my honest and non-insulting opinion, was promptly educated about how my personal method of deriving fun from this hobby is "moronic." And then to make matters worse, I am responding.

Silly me. :rolleyes:

Kloud13
16-01-2010, 07:27
Why waste your money on 42,000 pts of unpainted mini's? unpainted they all look the same anyway.

Hell, All you need is about 200 unpainted mini's, and they could represent any army out there. Your opponent would have to squint to tell the difference.

But really, I only really shake my head at those who refuse to do any paintingat all. To those, Go play a board game, or play a game with pre-painted mini's. don't clutter my tables with grey and pewter blobs.

AlmightyNocturnus
16-01-2010, 07:33
Our gaming group is really big on the whole painting thing. When we meet for our monthly wargaming day, we usually take the first 30 minutes or more just to admire what everyone has painted recently. We have one guy who is a great painter but manages to finish about 2-3 miniatures a year; we usually rag on his lack of effort (his nickname is "slow & purposeful"). I always thought our group was fairly unique. But this thread has shown me that there are other like-minded wargamers out there. It`s great.

Almighty Nocturnus

Gobbies
16-01-2010, 07:51
Here's the problem:

The non-painters rather spend the little free time that they have to game because they really enjoy the gaming part

The painters spend the time to paint and a lot of them enjoy it too, but palying against someone who doesnt paint their army removes a lot of the fun in the game and therefor they dont always have fun playing.

I always paint my units, not only for me but also for the person im playing against.

Gaebriel
16-01-2010, 08:33
There are some people out there who legititamly (spell?) do not have the time to paint.

I also believe those same people do not have time to troll the forums either.

"I don't have time." what a convienient excuse. But too many people confuse "lack of time" with "lack of will."
...
Substitute "lack of will" with "lack of want"...

My time ressources are limited, and I'd rather spend that time on other things, among them other aspects of wargaming, than painting.

I do agree to painted looks better, but I don't suscribe to painted is a must.


... Who does not have time to paint? I run a difficult business and raised three daughters. I still painted. If you say you don't have time, you are just admitting to poor time management skills. ...

See, some do have something called 'a live' (and mine incidentally is apart from work and thankfully doesn't include children (I know of) ). Without superior time management I wouldn't even be able to put in a thought about wargaming...

snurl
16-01-2010, 08:36
Substitute "lack of will" with "lack of want"...

My time ressources are limited, and I'd rather spend that time on other things, among them other aspects of wargaming, than painting.

I do agree to painted looks better, but I don't suscribe to painted is a must.

First, I am not trying to troll you here, and I mean this in the nicest way; Have you ever considered using a painting service, such as Pictor's studio, to get your figures painted?

Gaebriel
16-01-2010, 08:43
First, I am not trying to troll you here, and I mean this in the nicest way; Have you ever considered using a painting service, such as Pictor's studio, to get your figures painted?
Nah, no trolling...

I have recently used one for a minor project, and I guess I will use one in the future...

What I'd me in need of would be a terrain building service that doesn't cost an arm and a leg :(

The Red Scourge
16-01-2010, 08:51
Over my many years of war gaming I've noticed that the amount of painting I get done is inversely proportional to…well...real world responsibility.

Funny. I have it the other way around. Real world responsibilities demand time management, and when I'm forced to manage my time, I'm better at planning for a little painting time :)

yabbadabba
16-01-2010, 09:00
Part of this being a hobby is that you can personalise it to suit what you want to get out of it.

To game without painted models is the same as to paint without ever playing; and lets not forget the scenery making aspect of the hobby, or the background etc

If a person with a painted army cannot play a person with an unpainted army (or vice versa) the ONLY cast iron rule is that they part with smiles and promises of "If ever the day comes ... ...".
This is a question of respecting choice, not who is right, wrong or holding a non-existent moral high ground.

yabbadabba
16-01-2010, 09:02
What I'd me in need of would be a terrain building service that doesn't cost an arm and a leg :( Got a friend in France who might help with that :D

TheAmazingAntman
16-01-2010, 09:58
Funny. I have it the other way around. Real world responsibilities demand time management, and when I'm forced to manage my time, I'm better at planning for a little painting time :)

Impressive! When I lost my job a year and a half ago I had no trouble painting up a Battle for Skull Pass set in a bit more than a month. Now that I'm busier, it's taken me the same ammount of time to paint 5 High Elf spearmen, 5 archers, and a lone Silver Helm...

In fact I've been slogging it out on a single spearman for the last 3 or 4 hours...blarg.

To be fair I am a terribly slow painter.

Nezmith
16-01-2010, 10:18
As a recently starting Fantasy Player, I've surprised myself with the number of units I need to construct and paint. This coupled with my college schedule has caused me a lot of grief in not being able to set a fully painted army down on the table.

But because I hate it when an army just blends together, I made a point to settle down and meticulously paint my Lord and Heroes of my Tomb Kings. All of the characters have no fewer than five different colors on them, along with some washes. I've recieved many compliments on them, and on the table when facing my army, they couldn't be more obvious.

I fully intend to paint the army, and have completed a regiment of skeletons. I simply get bored wearing my brushes down with Bleached Bone, Bronze and Hawk Turquoise.

snurl
16-01-2010, 11:41
As a recently starting Fantasy Player, I've surprised myself with the number of units I need to construct and paint. This coupled with my college schedule has caused me a lot of grief in not being able to set a fully painted army down on the table.

But because I hate it when an army just blends together, I made a point to settle down and meticulously paint my Lord and Heroes of my Tomb Kings. All of the characters have no fewer than five different colors on them, along with some washes. I've recieved many compliments on them, and on the table when facing my army, they couldn't be more obvious.

I fully intend to paint the army, and have completed a regiment of skeletons. I simply get bored wearing my brushes down with Bleached Bone, Bronze and Hawk Turquoise.

Amen to that. I thought I would never get done painting skeletons. I wound up using bleached bone spray and going from there. Dipping helped a lot too.

mdauben
16-01-2010, 16:52
In an ideal world, I would never field an unpainted figure nor play against anyone that did. Two well painted armies fighting across nicely built terrain is a beautiful sight and one of the reasons I got into wargaming in the first place. :yes:

Now, in the real world I know how much work it is to paint a whole army, and how much time it can take. So, I don't expect my opponent to "sit" on his new army for weeks or even months while he gets it all painted to a high standard. I would hope he would at least make an effort and show some progress over time, though.

Now, someone who just can't be bothered to paint their armies on the other hand, I would probably be adverse to playing with. While I am sure its not universal, I have found that people who can't be bothered to paint at all often have other character traits that make them less than ideal people to game with (IMO at least). I'm sure there are some great guys who just don't paint their armies (indeed, some of the non-painting responders in this thread sound like otherwise nice guys), but I don't think I have met one for a game yet. :eyebrows:

Krom The Eternal
16-01-2010, 17:16
See here is my problem in all this. I love painting and i love playing, but when it comes time to paint, I have plenty of time thank you United States Economy. LOL, but i have 2 very large armies to paint. I seem to jump back and forth between the two so i have two partially painted armies. Its not gonna be easy finishing my over 4000pts of just KotR, When I'm only 2 Nine Man Units down. lol Also I'm more fond of the old knights now not as good looking but easier to paint lol. I Guess i just get Tired of the Repetitiveness of Painting like 6 Ogre Bulls after the 3rd one I'm like Ughhhhh I Need something that Isn't an ogre Or Isn't M@A lol Any of you have the same Gripe?

ChrisSmith
16-01-2010, 19:23
I've recently come back to the hobby with a few friends after about 8 years. We've all decided to take the approach that models should be painted before we game with them. This serves two purposes;

1. We have more pride in our models and our armies. It would be really awesome to have a fully painted army (that hopefully doesn't look terrible) and be able to say "I did that. That's mine". We'd also like to invest time and effort into creating our own gaming table(s), as opposed to a using a dining room table littered with proxy terrain. ;)

2. We are less likely to go out on a massive spending spree if we can't use unpainted models. I've noticed a common reason given for not wanting to paint is that you have "so many models". Currently I have purchased a battalion boxed set and I do not intend to buy anything else until it is at least base coated, but I'd prefer it if they were washed and shaded etc. By collecting in this way, I should never have more than a boxed set of models to paint at any one time and I should never feel overwhelmed by the task ahead of me.

Hopefully I can stick to this arrangement. Hopefully my painting isn't absolutely terrible, I'll be gutted if I turn £50 worth of miniatures into an unrecognisable mass of colours.

mrtn
17-01-2010, 01:16
I Guess i just get Tired of the Repetitiveness of Painting like 6 Ogre Bulls after the 3rd one I'm like Ughhhhh I Need something that Isn't an ogre Or Isn't M@A lol Any of you have the same Gripe?
The good thing with having four armies is that if I tire of painting skaven I can always paint some chaos. I usually paint 4-6 minis at the time, and a good idea is to do some at a time. So I paint six clanrats, then five slaves, then five clanrats plus a character, then five beastmen... and so on. Sure, I may have a half painted unit of clanrats, but that's better than giving up. I also hide most of my unpainted minis, I could never stand seeing hordes of plastic and metal staring at me from my desk. You should never look at more unpainted than painted minis at the same time. :)

Duke Georgal
17-01-2010, 05:00
OK,

Here is what you do, just buckle down...

Step 1) Prime all figures flat medium brown.

Step 2) Paint flesh.

Step 3) Paint half the figure a light color.

Step 4) Paint the rest a darker color.

Step 5) Paint a few bits Snakebite Leather.

Step 6) Paint metal parts in Chainmail.

Step 7) Dip in Walnut Satin Minwax Polyshades.

Step 8) Spray with Testors #1260 Dullcote.

Step 9) Glue something to the base.

Step 10) Done!

Anyone can paint 2,000 points of anything in a week like that. I have. I painted and entire skaven army in three days (less colors). I was part of the team the fully painted a 1,500 point Tau army in 2 days to complete in a RTT the week they were released! Awesome!

One can of cheap Krylon spray paint, four pots of GW paint, one quart of Minwax, Dullcote, sand, and one week of spare time.

If you hate to paint, too bad. Suck it up and get it done.

I hate playing against Skaven armies, but I have to at tournaments from time to time.

The pride you will feel is worth a week of hard work.

I promise.

Glabro
19-01-2010, 13:47
If you hate to paint, too bad. Suck it up and get it done.



Why did you feel the need to put in the comment above? Do you think it'll convince anyone? If people don't like doing something, they'll not start doing something because you tell them "Too bad. You must do it". It's like I said "So you don't like campaigns because you can't commit? Too bad. Suck it up, you'll get no pick-up games here."

OTOH,




The pride you will feel is worth a week of hard work.

I promise.

this is exactly the sort of encouragement people need! And you painting advice was quite helpful, I do about the same myself.

WarmbloodedLizard
19-01-2010, 16:00
I'm also MUCH more interested in the gaming aspect than in the painting aspect. painting takes A LOT of time and isn't really that much fun. (I don't really have the time anyway, there are more interesting things to do most of the time)

I proxy a lot and would have no problem playing against an army of labelled paper-bases with nothing on them. I just imagine how they look like anyway and don't look at the models much. (that does have advantages too, e.g. Treemen look much cooler in my head than they do in reality)

sure, I if I had the choice between painted and unpainted/proxied I'd usually choose the painted army, but the army itself would be more important. I'd rather play against paper-made woodelves than against masterfully painted boring dwarfs.

(I've been playing for roughly a year now, and about 1/4 of my army is painted, 1/4 primed, 1/4 unpainted and 1/4 proxied (well I have some of the models, but I'm too lazy to assemble my metal terradons)

[sure, some things are clearer with painted armies/correct models. but I don't think It makes much of a difference in the actual game. You might sometimes forget whether a unit had a musician or not and you have to ask, but If you can't remember what anything stands for or what something does when the opponent told you before the game (and maybe even labelled the units), you really have a problem with your memory.]

Tuch
19-01-2010, 16:03
I'd rather play than paint. Though I'd rather paint than clean mold lines, especially on the older plastics. :(

That said, I do paint my minis but very slowly. I collected a 2250 DOC army and all I have left is about 4-6 hours on my Bloodthirster and my unit of Daemonettes. Maybe they will be done in the next 6 months. Then I'll start on my Lizardmen army and hopefully have them done before their 8th edition book comes out.

I only play with friends and none of their armies are painted so it's not like I have a lot of pressure to paint. We proxy around but usually only to see if we like a unit well enough to purchase it. Needless to say I don't really care what a persons army looks like I'll still play. But using bases is sorta lame, at least have a model.

Bac5665
19-01-2010, 16:46
@ Tuch, it sounds like 8E will come out this summer, so you probably aren't gonna get those lizards done in time ;)

For me, Warhammer is a hobby, true, but the competitive game is the heart of that hobby. For me, the best part of the hobby is a challenging competitive game against a good player, and yes, with painted models.

But...the painting is listed last there for a reason. I enjoy painting some, but I'm very busy (read: law student) and 2 games a month is a good month. I just don't have time to paint 200 skaven after classes and reading. Painting is good. I have multiple fully painted armies, and I tend to use them more than the others. And I plan to paint the others, and am making some progress. But I'd play a lot less if I wasn't allowed to play with proxies or unpainted models. That freedom is pretty critical to my enjoyment of the hobby.

WarmbloodedLizard
19-01-2010, 18:24
@ Tuch, it sounds like 8E will come out this summer, so you probably aren't gonna get those lizards done in time ;)


I think he meant the 8th Ed. lizzie book :)

Kirth
19-01-2010, 20:55
I enjoy painting, but not everyone does. I don't mind at all playing against unpainted armies; my hope is that by seeing my efforts, others will be inspired to paint theirs.

pointyteeth
20-01-2010, 01:08
Wow, I never knew there was such a hate-on for non-painters :wtf: I wouldn't even consider refusing a match to someone based on the amount of grey (or bare metal) on the table. I prefer to refuse matches on a player to player basis :p (to date, I've only ever refused one match but thats best mentioned in the "Annoying Player" thread)

I love to paint and convert (I like to think that I'm pretty good at it) and its my favorite part of the hobby. This said, I rarely field a fully painted army. There is just too much other stuff to do with my time. Excluding the obligatory 40hr+ per week job and the necessary 7-8 hours of sleep per night to be able to perform said job there is still the necessity of socializing on a non-warhammer basis, spending time with the girlfriend, indulging my other hobbies (ps3, D&D, my pets), and just plain relaxing from the stresses of everyday life.

Now, when tournament time comes around I will paint like there's no tomorrow for a couple weeks straight to get my entire army painted even if its not required. Why? Because I paid money to enter the tournament and because its worth points to my total score! :D (Now before I get labelled as a WAAC player trying to get as much of a lead as possible, I'd like to point out that I get massacred 9/10 times in both tournament and beer & pretzel hammer, so I'd rather go for soft scores and just have a good time instead of worrying about my battle points). This painting spree will always lead to complete burn out with the entire hobby afterwards which leads to me not playing or touching models for at least 3 months afterwards. And if I like painting, how is someone who hates it supposed to do it?

I hope this rambling essay makes some sense. I'm on a tournament painting streak right now and haven't been getting much sleep ;)

Lars Porsenna
20-01-2010, 02:26
I don't set a model down on the table until it is painted to my satisfaction. And I dislike playing against unpainted armies. This makes me a painting snob. I don't care because this is how I enjoy the game (i.e. its a miniatures game, so the minis are 50% of the thing).

Now, one person above said he was struggling with a spearman for the last 4 hours. IMHO that's where the problem is. When I paint, I paint in batches of 10 figures, sometimes more, with the goal of being done and ready for clearcoating in a week. And I usually dedicate between 1/2 to 1 hr a day for painting, 6 days a week (like God, the 7th day is for gaming...). What helps is to set goals. On the way home from work, rather than listening to the insipid commentary on the local radio channel, I plan out my painting session, setting an easily achievable goal. FREX, my goal tonite is to paint the boots and belts on a bunch of figures (17 to be exact, should take no more than 1/2 an hour). And tomorrow the goal is to shade their robes (the figures are HE). I also set a goal of a 2000pt army (for fantasy at least) to be done in 3 months. Looks very good that I'll hit that goal (I have till the end of March).

I should also add I keep up this pace despite having a job, house, family (2 daughters and the ol' lady) and at least the semblance of a social life. It also helps that I do no clean up as my workbench is in the basement.

Damon.

wizbix
20-01-2010, 03:19
I always argue that fielding figures with no painted on eyes brings bad luck to ones army. Surely no paint what so ever should be doubly bad luck. That’s my argument and i'm sticking with it. ;) For those that hate to paint, field a Tomb Kings or an undead army, I am sure leaving white undercoat showing mostly with some colours added hear and there and a simple 'dip' technique would make an adequate alternative?

ChaosVC
20-01-2010, 03:44
I always argue that fielding figures with no painted on eyes brings bad luck to ones army. Surely no paint what so ever should be doubly bad luck. That’s my argument and i'm sticking with it. ;) For those that hate to paint, field a Tomb Kings or an undead army, I am sure leaving white undercoat showing mostly with some colours added hear and there and a simple 'dip' technique would make an adequate alternative?

For those who hate to paint. When playing VC, tomb king, Darkelves and daemons army, just spray and undercoat everthing black, put 2 red dots in every eye of the models and call it shadow ____ Army and be done with it. This way when you get bored with that army or if you suck at it, you can still sell them to someone who wanted to paint it with a free undercoat! Win Win!:D