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View Full Version : is the IG too 'Normal'?



tu33y
15-01-2010, 12:39
the proposition:

"i think commissars, priests, techpriests and other weird futuristic stuff should be much cheaper to try and bring a bit more fantastical element to the Guard."

discuss. you may use diagrams and calculators.

kurac
15-01-2010, 12:43
Yeah, totally agreeing on this...commisars and priests give guards lame and overpriced rules, at least they could make them cheap so we could field them more often.

Petay1985
15-01-2010, 12:44
I think alot of this can be conveyed in modelling, rather than a required influence from the codex options.
However i do think that support units such as Techpriests should be at a points value that makes them an attactive unit in an army list!

In regard to the modelling i am currenty looking to make a Chimera have a more futuristic/steampunk influenced vide, it will be a transport for my inquisitor!

Bloodknight
15-01-2010, 12:46
Commissars are fine pointswise in the new codex. Stubborn is a big bonus and the commissar can't be much cheaper because he works on combined squads. The Lord Commissar, however, is a points sink that could easily have done with a 50% price cut because his IC status kills him more often than not.

Priests also confer a huge bonus, but I don't get why these guys had to be independent characters with 1 wound. You'd see much more of them if they were simple squad upgrades with the rest of their current rules.

Primaris Psykers are fine, an upgrade option for them to use two powers per turn would have been nice - but then, their second power is incredibly weak vs most opponents anyway.

The Techpriest. Now he's got decent repair rules for the first time and then they screw him up by making him a footslogger...

Abhumans should be a bit more prevalent in my eyes, they're a big part of what makes the Guard not just WWII/Vietnam in space.

Killgore
15-01-2010, 12:47
It depends if you are a competitive gamer or not, trying to squeeze every point out of your force.

My Steel Legion are a fun force, Iv got priests, Commisars, Enginseers in my standard lists, as well as many standin models in command squads to make the army stand out as truly belonging in the 40000 universe.

Petay1985
15-01-2010, 12:49
It depends if you are a competitive gamer or not, trying to squeeze every point out of your force.

My Steel Legion are a fun force, Iv got priests, Commisars, Enginseers in my standard lists, as well as many standin models in command squads to make the army stand out as truly belonging in the 40000 universe.

I whole heartdly agree with this train of thought, i too do my utmost to have a theme and purpose to my army lists, aesthetics and fluff often dictate my army list, not the competativeness or points (but the 2 can overlap).

Decius
15-01-2010, 12:52
I kind of like that the guard is the most normal army in a galaxy of super soldiers and alien thingies. It's their "shtick", you know?

That being said, players should always have an option to add some crazy to their army if they'd like. But, I think the guard codex already provides enough of that. Anything else can be added through modeling. Traitor Guard for example. So many possibilities...

sigur
15-01-2010, 13:13
There's lots of interesting and exotic options in the current IG codex and many of them are well priced for what they do. If you want commissars, get them in your army. No problem there. If you want psykers, you can do that. I don't think that the psychic choir is that expensive. Ogryns may look very expensive on paper but used well (i.e. not running them into Demolishers), they can do MUCH for your army. Ratlings are incredibly handy. ThePrimaris Psyker is a great HQ choice for smaller games and new players are not as lured into the trap of getting loads of upgrades, thus making the company command squad much too expensive.

If you want your army to consist of fancypants weirdo units only, play daemons or something.

Lord Solar Plexus
15-01-2010, 13:28
Between Astropaths that will kill you if they take of their banana, eh, bandana, hugely comical, crazy, love-hated ICBM's, nimble but hungry Ratlings, Ogryns that cause Mekboyz think of inventing soap, very amusing demo charges, Penal Legion and incredibly useful Commissars, I don't think IG is too normal.

Of course Priests and Engineseers are but fun units and of course it would've been nice were they really useful but overall, it's quite possible to make a list that is far from mainstream. After all, spending 80 points or so on something considered fun isn't the end of the world.

Gen.Steiner
15-01-2010, 14:02
No. The Imperial Guard is not normal or sensible. It's bloody good fun though!

tu33y
15-01-2010, 14:03
Between Astropaths that will kill you if they take of their banana, eh, bandana, hugely comical, crazy, love-hated ICBM's, nimble but hungry Ratlings, Ogryns that cause Mekboyz think of inventing soap, very amusing demo charges, Penal Legion and incredibly useful Commissars, I don't think IG is too normal.



agree but you dont see them very often as many many ppl who like to have fun AND win games aften just take another squad or two of troops. and I REALLy dont want to get into price issues but until plastic ogryns happen (if ever) then they are overpriced here and in the game. priests are mail order only and not wysiwyg but are cool looking (but very old models)

just adding fuel to the fire...

by the way has anyone noticed how pretty the FW titan tech priest is compared to the metal one?

Ambience 327
15-01-2010, 14:14
Plastic Ogryn can exist if you want them too....


Just use some plastic Ork Nobs, mount them on large bases, round their ears down a bit, give them ripper guns using the barrel-fed Ork shoota, and paint them in human flesh-tones. Sure they aren't quite as big as the Ogryn models, but they will certainly work as they are definitely larger and beefier than your standard Guardsmen.

Petay1985
15-01-2010, 14:20
by the way has anyone noticed how pretty the FW titan tech priest is compared to the metal one?

i am with you completely, the Titan Techpriest (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/amtp.htm), Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Solomon Lok (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/inqlok.htm) and the Renegade Militia Commander (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/rencomm.htm)are amongst my favourite models forgeworld have produced to date :cool:

Killgore
15-01-2010, 14:36
i am with you completely, the Titan Techpriest (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/amtp.htm), Ordo Xenos Inquisitor Solomon Lok (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/inqlok.htm) and the Renegade Militia Commander (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/rencomm.htm)are amongst my favourite models forgeworld have produced to date :cool:

Totaly agreed on that, Titan TechPriest hangs around in my command squad (counts as command squad guardsman) or as a Enginseer, Lok is my Inquisitor (when Gideon Lorr is on a misson elsewhere) and the leader of my Lost and the Damned is the Militia commander.


The Dkok Quartermaster is a 'counts as' Guardsman Marbo and I use Inquistor henchmen as command squad members.

sigur
15-01-2010, 15:06
Wait, wait, wait, you're saying that the FW model looks nicer than the regular citadel one!?!? :eek:

If you're dead set on using the more esoteric units in your IG army, go ahead. If you don't want to, don't. You'll always find excuses not to do it, but don't complain that you don't use them then.

Bunnahabhain
15-01-2010, 16:33
The execution of the stranger elements of the Guard is better rules wise than it has been for a while. It's still not great though and there are some other issues.

Rough riders: Great rules and a wonderful concept. Cavalry charges not just against tanks, but against flying daemons, so lets give them explosive lances. The lack of models is just an excuse to convert, so you can have them on dinosaurs, hoverboards, giant frogs....

Ratlings. Another nice unit , that feel appropriately unusual, but not so much they couldn't be accepted. Personally, I hate the new models. The older models, and the line drawings from the 2nd ed are much more to my liking..

Sanctioned psykers. Nicely though out unit. Effective, without being overpowered, and has simple but characterful rules. Background also sensible.

Ogryns. Cost too much. They have a niche in the guard though. If you don't like abhumans, then big biomechanical servitors work well for them.

Presists and tech presists. Nice idea, nice models, dire rules AGAIN....

Lord commissar, Primaris psyker. Again, nice concepts and modelling opportunities, with OK rules, but they could so easily have been really good.

Standard commissars are not at all unusual, I have historical armies with them in...

Gen.Steiner
15-01-2010, 16:36
Standard commissars are not at all unusual, I have historical armies with them in...

But commissars with whacking great big electrically-charged Fists of Doom are. ;)

DaSpaceAsians
16-01-2010, 01:07
I honestly don't care that the IG is normal. When I started 40k, I want to play everyday scifi humans, not supermen or xenos. In the end, it works out for me since it allows to do a school project about Space South Vietnamese Imperial Guard and have a regiment with unique fluff.

catbarf
16-01-2010, 01:13
I kind of like that the guard is the most normal army in a galaxy of super soldiers and alien thingies. It's their "shtick", you know?


This. The Guard are unique and different by virtue of being mundane and realistic. In a universe of horrific monsters and millions of ways to die painfully, an army of guys with guns is different enough.

lowrider
16-01-2010, 01:33
i dont think the guard are too "normal" at all it is entirely dependent on how you want to build your lists, if you dont choose to use psykers or ogryns etc then the army will have a very "normal" feel too it. but if you want to use all the "wierd" units then the army can feel very different.

also there are so many modeling possibilities with guard that there is no reason that any guard army should be "normal".

the problem with units like ogryns, ratlings, psykers etc is that there are units that do a better job than them and when making a list if you want to win/ be competative then there really is no point spending points on a couple of commissars and a primaris psyker when you can take a demolisher or some other russ varient which can be soo much more usefull in games.

jason_sation
16-01-2010, 01:53
I like their mundane flavor myself as well. When your opponent shows up with a hellspawn creation capable of destroying worlds, its up to your regular joes to save the day.

Lord Cook
16-01-2010, 04:16
Re: is the IG too 'Normal'? Not in my opinion, no. Their very normality among a universe of horrors is their main attraction.

vladsimpaler
16-01-2010, 04:20
I just want Beastmen back.

And different types of cavalry.

Lord Cook
16-01-2010, 04:30
I just want Beastmen back.

What's stopping you from allying in counts-as Kroot from the free codex available online? ;)

baphomael
16-01-2010, 04:37
But commissars with whacking great big electrically-charged Fists of Doom are. ;)

Dont you know? Thats how the Soviet Union won the war! Stalingrad or Kursk would have been nothing without the electrically charged Fists of Doom :p

Lord Solar Plexus
16-01-2010, 07:05
Standard commissars cannot take powerfists anyways I understand.


agree but you dont see them very often as many many ppl who like to have fun AND win games aften just take another squad or two of troops.


Well, YMMV but I for one have taken either Ogryns or Commissars or Ratlings or an Astropath or a Psyker / Lord Commissar in every single list and game since May '09, and in the vast majority of cases more than one of those choices. The Engineseer and Priest I admit I glossed over but I did the same with most special characters too, and if you add some of the artillery choices, I think normal wouldn't be the first thought to cross my mind.

Of course, humans and human military are quite normal, and as Lord Cook points out, that is part of the attraction. Doesn't mean they are too normal though.



and I REALLy dont want to get into price issues but until plastic ogryns happen (if ever) then they are overpriced here and in the game. priests are mail order only and not wysiwyg but are cool looking (but very old models)


Ogryns and Priests have been around long before this codex. I think I bought mine at the end of the 90's, so I'm more than happy to use them (well, you can have the priest). As to the Ogryns' performance on the table, I'm a huge proponent of them.

Ozendorph
16-01-2010, 07:50
I love the guard in the role they are cast. They're the "normal" guys in a galaxy full of giant bugs, gibbering demons, and hulking super-humans. Everything else is only bizarre and awe-inspiring relative to them. Competing with the otherworldly forces of the 40K universe is an impossible, thankless job - but that's why the Emperor gave them guns with rechargeable batteries and took away their Land Raiders.

Bloodknight
16-01-2010, 10:17
I just want Beastmen back.

Penal Legions are a great option to use beastmen models for. I do, and a couple of other dudes I've seen on Warseer do, too :)

Crovax20
16-01-2010, 11:09
I whole heartdly agree with this train of thought, i too do my utmost to have a theme and purpose to my army lists, aesthetics and fluff often dictate my army list, not the competativeness or points (but the 2 can overlap).


It depends if you are a competitive gamer or not, trying to squeeze every point out of your force.

My Steel Legion are a fun force, Iv got priests, Commisars, Enginseers in my standard lists, as well as many standin models in command squads to make the army stand out as truly belonging in the 40000 universe.

This pretty much, when I start a new army in 40k or fantasy I always try to imagine a backstory for it first, if I fail to come up with anything I really like I don't start the army. After that stage, I go to army building and I pick units that I feel are cool for the idea behind my army fluff. Thats the reason I will be fielding flashgitz in my Freeboota army, the reason why I will always have more icon of chaos marines than any other type of marine in my Red Corsairs lists.

borithan
19-01-2010, 09:14
Many people choose the Guard exactly because they are the most normal army out there. They want to do modern army in 40k, or WW2 army in 40k. Changing points costs aint going to change that (like I am not very keen on the idea of any non-tau units for my tau army, regardless what the points costs are... doesn't help that the Vespids are hideous).



"i think commissars,Meh... commissars are not that "un-normal". They have a clear historical inspiration, even if taken to an extreme, and they look like officer type characters.

Real benefit would be to bring out the weirder stuff in plastic. I believe that the reason we see fewer Ogryns, ratlings, rough riders and all the weird stuff has more to do with the cost and the ease of modeling rather than their in game effectiveness. OK, not in tournaments, but in your local club or shop. I am sure there are plenty of people who would think "Cool, ogres with huge guns!" and use them if they weren't 12 a model (36 for a minimum unit of 3... personally I also think the models are hideous). I would love to get some rough riders (tallarns, not the Attilans)... but 35 for a single unit is a bit steep, especially as if they were plastic fantasy cavalry they would probably cost 12 for 5.


The older models, and the line drawings from the 2nd ed are much more to my liking..I grabbed the last blister of the older ratlings in my local shop when I saw what the new ones were going to look like.

Brother_Chaplian Raimo
19-01-2010, 09:20
The Imperial Guard is not 'normal'. It is an army of normal men and women, with normal gear, from normal lives, facing down untold gribbly horrors and chainsaw-weilding supermen and corporeal manifestations of rage with nothing but a laser pointer and a pair of steel gonads. That is not normal, that is extraordinarily awesome.

tezdal
19-01-2010, 09:40
I just wish GW would make tanks that dont look so "clunky". I mean 38 thousands years in the future...and the Leman Russ is what they come up with?

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 09:42
The Imperial Guard is not 'normal'. It is an army of normal men and women, with ... a pair of steel gonads. That is not normal

You're right, that's definitely not normal. What planet are they from, Transvestita VI? :p

I think you meant "nerves of steel". :angel:

tu33y
19-01-2010, 09:49
The Imperial Guard is not 'normal'. It is an army of ... men and women ... with nothing but a laser pointer and a pair of steel gonads. That is not normal, that is extraordinarily awesome.

that my friend is awesome.

some great views and we all played nice. good thread.

it just goes to show how the IG appeal in different ways to different people. i started this thread because i wanted to inject some 'odd' into my army but really strained to do it within my themes and fluff etc. It stems from my first apocalypse game when i dropped lots of priests and things in and enjoyed them.

Rick Blaine
19-01-2010, 10:25
I would say the IG is fine rules-wise, it's the Cadian models that look bland and not sci-fi at all. IG needs a regiment that either has a high tech look, or a radically different cultural design that isn't a knockoff of a historical Earth army.

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 11:04
They have three already - the Tanith, Vostroyans and the old Imperial Army. FW does the Elysians, who are also fairly unique and SF like. FW's Renegades are also essentially unique, but chaos, so don't count.

The others can be pigeonholed thusly:

Metal Cadians - WWII Wehrmacht crossed with Bundeswehr.
Plastic Cadians - Modern US IN SPAAAACE (kind of)
Catachans - Rambo. Down to 'Sly' Marbo... :shifty:
Valhallans - Red Army in SPAAACE
Mordians - Cross between French Foreign Legion and US Marines
Praetorians - Unashamedly Victorian British Infantry in SPAAACE with epaulettes
Tallarn - WWI Arab Revolt and interwar Arab regular infantry
Armageddon Steel Legion - WWII Fallschirmjager of the Future!
FW DKoK - WWI French with German helmets, overall 'Verdun' feel

I don't think I've missed any of the ranges.

Rick Blaine
19-01-2010, 11:09
OK, they need an interesting plastic regiment :p

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 11:27
In which case the best bet would be basing the new Greatcoats, rumoured forever, on the 2nd Edition art of a patrol in the Ash Wastes of a Hive World. Someone on here has it as their avatar, I forget who.

It's a classic - and unique. Cold weather gear, long greatcoats, compact folding-stock lasrifles, interesting helmet, backpack comms gear... lots of stuff not seen in any other line of minis.

Or they could do worse than look at the 3rd Edition codexes' two-page spread of units. How about the Xenonians? Or the Savlar Chem-Dogs? They'd be fun to do.

Rick Blaine
19-01-2010, 11:38
Chem-Dogs would be awesome (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/4170969/images/1238740708914.jpg).

Memnos
19-01-2010, 11:41
I have to disagree about Ratlings, though.

Ratlings are great at killing:

Wraithlords
C'Tan
Daemons

And with Rending, they are a worry for:

Open topped vehicles
Dreadnoughts
Transports

They also have stealth, which gives them a 3+ cover save.

Irrelevant with some armies that have a plethora of 'Ignore cover' units(I'm looking at YOU, Imperial Guard), they nevertheless have a solid chance since they have BS 4 Sniper Rifles. Even Marines don't have BS 4 Sniper Rifles.


the problem with units like ogryns, ratlings, psykers etc is that there are units that do a better job than them and when making a list if you want to win/ be competative then there really is no point spending points on a couple of commissars and a primaris psyker when you can take a demolisher or some other russ varient which can be soo much more usefull in games.

Abbo
19-01-2010, 12:19
err? scouts?

DaSpaceAsians
19-01-2010, 12:52
err? scouts?

except the sarge(BS4), they have BS 3

Abbo
19-01-2010, 13:01
wow... i'll be having words with my local space marines players

DaSpaceAsians
19-01-2010, 13:07
wow... i'll be having words with my local space marines players

Do they play Blood Angels/Dark Angels?

Killgore
19-01-2010, 13:07
wow... i'll be having words with my local space marines players

BS4 Scouts got hit with the nerf bat in the latest marine codex :P

Even our Guard Veterans can shoot better :D

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 14:10
Which is as it should be - Scouts are Scouts, initiates and trainees; Guard Veterans are just that - combat veterans, elite troopers and skilled in the art of war.

Bunnahabhain
19-01-2010, 14:20
And even more to the point,the veterans training and experience tells them that a rifle is best used for bringing the enemy down at 500m, and not for clubbing the enemy over the head, whereas 90% of marine training appears to be in the opposite...

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 14:26
Precisely!

borithan
19-01-2010, 14:28
I just wish GW would make tanks that dont look so "clunky". I mean 38 thousands years in the future...and the Leman Russ is what they come up with?The Imperium has never been styled as high technology... ok at least since very early rogue trader


Metal Cadians - WWII Wehrmacht crossed with Bundeswehr.I wouldn't say WW2. They look very much like a slightly sci-fi version of a modern army (including the Bundeswehr). They even seem to have a pouch in the front of their jacket for a ballistic insert.


Plastic Cadians - Modern US IN SPAAAACE (kind of)Meh... more generic sci-fi soldiers.


Tallarn - WWI Arab Revolt and interwar Arab regular infantryBackground wise also the LRDG... not the look though.

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 14:37
I wouldn't say WW2. They look very much like a slightly sci-fi version of a modern army (including the Bundeswehr). They even seem to have a pouch in the front of their jacket for a ballistic insert.

Fair point, I've just always associated them with an SF'd Wehrmacht ever since I started painting them in a sort of 1944-45 style.


Meh... more generic sci-fi soldiers.

Yeeesss... OK, yeh, that's fair. But not unique enough to give a really 40K flavour; remove the Aquilas and you can use them as troopers in any universe.

AndrewGPaul
19-01-2010, 15:25
There's something about the metal Cadians that reminds me faintly of WW2 German army uniforms. Not sure what it is, I think part of it is the straps for the shoulder armour, and the hip-length tunic.

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 15:47
It's the Y strap webbing and the blouse rather than tunic, plus the 1944 style battledress feel.

The helmet shape helps too.

borithan
19-01-2010, 15:48
Yeeesss... OK, yeh, that's fair. But not unique enough to give a really 40K flavour; remove the Aquilas and you can use them as troopers in any universe.Certainly true.

AndrewGPaul
19-01-2010, 15:51
It's the Y strap webbing and the blouse rather than tunic, plus the 1944 style battledress feel.

The helmet shape helps too.

Yeah, that's it. Some of the helmet shapes have been expanded in to separate bits, but it's still there.

The heavy bolter and autocannon crew appear to have nicked Vickers HMG trolleys, though. :)

The thing I liked about those ranges was that the Cadians and Catachans wore the same gear. That meant you could mix and match them, to have a couple of veterans in a Cadian squad, or the odd fung in a Catachan squad.

Plus, what's not to love about Lieutenant piemuncher of the Cadian Imperial Guard? :)

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 15:56
Oh, I loved 'em. Still do - in the process of cobbling together a couple of 1.5K point armies using them actually.

Although the metal Cadians will be primarily a 2nd Edition force rather than 4th Edition one like the rest of my Guard...

Lord Cook
19-01-2010, 17:09
Plus, what's not to love about Lieutenant piemuncher of the Cadian Imperial Guard? :)

Lol, I remember that model. Legend.

Gen.Steiner
19-01-2010, 19:24
Lol, I remember that model. Legend.

Legend in his local pie shop... :D

I use him as Leutnant Albrecht Horst of the Rigellian Infantry.

Shadowmancer
19-01-2010, 19:42
Vostroyans are based on earth historical, Tsarist Russian troops

Lord Cook
19-01-2010, 19:43
Vostroyans are very loosely based on earth historical, Tsarist Russian troops

Ten character limit.

Shadowmancer
19-01-2010, 20:04
yes but the same can be said of all the Imperial guard regiments that they have. Mordians look like Marines in Dress Uniforms. Vostroyans look like they are Tsarist Russian at a glance.

RexTalon
19-01-2010, 20:22
The one fanboi idea I hate the most is that Imperial Guardsmen are somehow inherently superhuman.

Askari
19-01-2010, 20:27
The one fanboi idea I hate the most is that Imperial Guardsmen are somehow inherently superhuman.

Who has ever said that?! :confused:

Anyway, slightly off topic... but that Ordo Xenos Inquisitor from Forge World looks so much like Rodrigo Borgia from Assassin's Creed 2 that... well... he's going to be the mastermind behind my Traitor Guard army... *goes off to find money behind a couch somewhere*

Grimbad
19-01-2010, 20:27
Mordians look like marines in dress uniform if you're looking for marines in dress uniform. Personally I get bored pretty fast of looking at mordians painted as US marines. They're more of an archetype of ridiculously, foolishly entrenched tradition, as I see it. All of the 2nd edition regiments are archetypes, stereotypes and cliches, though Tallarn and Valhallans lean farthest towards stereotypes and cliches. And of course Praetorians are meant to be exactly like a historical army.

tu33y
20-01-2010, 08:48
.

Plus, what's not to love about Lieutenant piemuncher of the Cadian Imperial Guard? :)

i actually got that model, in my army colours and painted to look like me from my mate for my birthday!!

Legionary
20-01-2010, 10:02
Everything that's outside what we'd expect to see from "future generic sci-fi army" is currently too expensive. Commissars are good, but people don't pick them because they're not the best use of those points. I've never seen an Enginseer, not even when my Guard opponent goes with a vehicle-heavy list. That guy should completely have been given a bike.

Gen.Steiner
20-01-2010, 10:28
I've never seen an Enginseer, not even when my Guard opponent goes with a vehicle-heavy list. That guy should completely have been given a bike.

It's because the Engineseer's role is fundamentally an after-action or rear-area one; repairs to vehicles in action are usually not undertaken unless absolutely necessary.

In scenarios and for completeness' sake the Engineseer is, or can be, vital.

Legionary
20-01-2010, 13:37
Absolutely. I don't disagree. But if he's an in-game unit he should be properly costed for effectiveness, and be properly effective. Right now the Enginseer is neither.

Bunnahabhain
20-01-2010, 14:24
At least a fair number of the non generic sci-fi unts are actually useful this time. Previously, they were almost all rubbish....

RexTalon
20-01-2010, 22:33
Who has ever said that?! :confused:
There was a whole thread full of IG fans on here last year that were trying to say that the average guardsman was bigger and badder than Arnold Schwarzenegger.

AndrewGPaul
20-01-2010, 23:37
Depends what sources you use, I suppose. Gaunt and the Tanith 1st are described as pushing 2 metres tall or more, and then there's the exceptional specimens like Bragg, who can wave vehicle-mounted assault cannons around - it usually takes Terminators to do that, and they have special small ones.

Gutlord Grom
20-01-2010, 23:55
There was a whole thread full of IG fans on here last year that were trying to say that the average guardsman was bigger and badder than Arnold Schwarzenegger. You mean the Mkoll thread, right?

Bunnahabhain
21-01-2010, 00:15
Between 40,000 years of mutations ( see Ogryns), so some worlds can have 2m tall guardsmen as standard, and the countless trillions of Guardsmen in the Galaxy, there are going to be a few truly exceptional ones.

Some of the threads put marine ones to shame for rampant fanboism though....

Gen.Steiner
21-01-2010, 06:50
There is also always the possibility of being descended from people who ha genetic tweaking during the DAoT... to make you bigger, stronger, cleverer, etc. Not to LOLMARINE levels but certainly above what we would consider very good.

Lord Solar Plexus
21-01-2010, 07:44
The Orphratrean Mercenaries from Emperor's Mercy are supposedly the product of eugenics and made for war, and then there are the Skitarii, although both are not strictly Guard.

Edit: They're not even loosely Guard of course but still humans.

borithan
21-01-2010, 16:56
In my mind your average Imperial Citizen is likely to be shorter than the average for a current developed country. The lives of many Imperial citizens don't seem to be up to much, and it strikes me that chronic mild malnutrition is likely to be quite widespread (certainly on particular planet types, like hive and feudal worlds. Hive worlds in particular strike me as a place where rickets would be rampant among the non-noble population). The recent trend of people getting taller in average is due to better nutrition during childhood. Now the guard would weed out the worst, but with the Imperium's massive drafts they are not going to be overly fussy as long as they can still do the job.

There could still be fairly unique individuals, and planets where people are... well, just larger. Different circumstances would produce certain traits over the space of millennia.

Ba'al Starslayer
21-01-2010, 17:48
I've just had a quick skim through the thread and I can't believe noone has pointed out that all Guardsmen carry a LASER weapon of some sort....? Isn't that futuristic enough!?!? Haha I'm joking, I do see where you're coming from, alot of the 'unique' aspects of them being Humans in the 41st millennium aren't used... Sentinels are cool, but to be fair, why can't they get a skimmer of some sort? (Excluding the Valk, that uses jets) Marines get Land Speeders, so surely the Guard could get some of this futuristic kit too!

borithan
21-01-2010, 19:48
They used to... but then they used to have Rhinos as well.

Gen.Steiner
22-01-2010, 03:37
They still do; at least in the Paridon Sector (my own sector): Dragoon Regiments are equipped with RH1N0s with a mix of Heavy Stubber and Storm Bolter defensive weapon systems.

Given the ubiquity of the Rhino and its use by Arbites and Sororitas, I see no reason to deny the Guard a cheap 'battle taxi'.

RexTalon
22-01-2010, 04:23
You mean the Mkoll thread, right?

I don't remember exactly.

Oh, and tall <> superhuman.

Grimbad
22-01-2010, 04:57
I don't remember exactly.

Oh, and tall <> superhuman.

I think it was a thread about why guardsmen are so crappy, and the counter argument was that they could be better trained and equipped than modern special forces and their stats would still be threes.
There is no counter-argument to the fact that they still believe in charging forth, banners waving and bayonets flashing.

Gen.Steiner
22-01-2010, 05:07
There is no counter-argument to the fact that they still believe in charging forth, banners waving and bayonets flashing.

Depends on the Regiment. Some (Mordians, Praetorians, Vostroyans) do, others (Elysians, Tallarn) by and large don't unless it will bring tactical/strategic benefit.

Bunnahabhain
22-01-2010, 10:59
Well to be precise, I'm sure fairly much all the Guard regiments will have banners, and other toatlly impractical things, but only some of them are daft enough to bring them to the battlefield...

Gen.Steiner
22-01-2010, 11:05
Yes, exactly.