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View Full Version : Gonna be a long time for the forgotten Codex's



viking657
16-01-2010, 23:44
Its just my opinon but I think its going to be a very long time before we see any of the old forgotten codex's redone.

By that I mean Dark Eldar, Daemon Hunters, Witchhunters and possibly Necrons and Tau.

Its simple economics really, GW's policy is that they want you to build a collection of models so you can pick and choose what you take to a battle or so they tell us.
Take Marines or IG the army list possiblites are endless from drop pods to infantry heavy lists but it all equals one thing, if Gw sign up a marine/IG player they are quids in.
The new player will spend literally years buying and painting new stuff and still not have everything in the collection Gw want you to have.
The same is true of orks.

Now take the forgotten armies, all are elite high point cost armies which are never going to have the same vast range of models and your never going to need vast multiples to make all the possible army lists out there.

So if you were GW and your wage depended on sales would you rather have a new marine player or a new dark eldar player on the books?

Now don't get me wrong I'm sick of playing against marines and feel the enemies of the Imperium need a major boost but its going to be a long time coming people.
The reason we have Wolves now and soon Blood Angels is because it complements the exisiting ranges with very little captial investment from GW and its a crying shame.

In my opinon the Black Templars and Dark Angels will be getting some love soon and the next xeno dex will be Eldar.

The Necron and Tau ranges are large enough for them to be redone on the cheap with only a few new models but the likes of Daemon Hunters, Witch Hunters and Dark Eldar are almost never gonna happen and its all directly related to how much a player will actually spend on them.
Hundreds of thousands of people might run out tommorrow to buy new codex dark eldar and they all might start an army but in the long term they would not spend as much money on them as they would not need as many models to make an endless number of army lists as they would if they were a Marine player.

Now I'm not saying its never going to happen but I'd say its a safe bet that the remaining codex's are not going to now be redone in order.
Of the five I outlined at the start you might be lucky to see 1 a year with the other release slots filled with Chaos Marines, Eldar, any other marine chapter and reworks of the newer ones.

I blame money in general and codex chaos daemons as although still expensive to build an army of it isn't half as expensive as a decent marine or guard army and that is how GW see the old dex's.
Dark Eldar = low long term sales
Marines = high long term sales

d6juggernaut
17-01-2010, 00:26
If GW really thinks like that, they'll be stuck in a vicious circle of Marine updates and eventually it's just going to be Adeptus Astartes civil brawls everywhere

Mudkip
17-01-2010, 00:39
You say the problem is a lack of variety in rules and models, which can be most easily remedied by creating a new codex. Fail logic?

Necrons: More Necrons waking up from slumber = excuse for more stuff.

Tau: Always evolving their tech and tactics = excuse for more stuff

DH + WH: Combined dex with ordo xenos and self-contained generic allies (guard platoons etc) = interesting variety.

Dark Eldar: They have already redone the model range according to rumours, and since there wasn't much fluff to begin with they are practically a blank slate to add new models and unit options.

enigma-96
17-01-2010, 00:39
Although your analysis is somewhat correct, or at the least seems very logical, you have to realize that long term gain isn't always better than Massive short term gains. The space marines may be better long term investments but the other armies tend to move alot more models in those first months than marines do which results in much more profit than the marines, atleast for a little while. Having massive profits in a short period of time tends to look better on the books and it gives the company enough money to sustain itself while the long term investments start to pay off.

On a side note where the hell did that codex chaos daemons comment come from? I mean it has no grounds in your theory and kinda seems like an attack on daemon players.

incarna
17-01-2010, 00:55
I don’t think your position is valid.

Each “faction” is not an economic “bucket” to be filled, it’s a revenue stream.
The more revenue streams you have, the more money you make.

Today’s 15-year-old who buys a box of Space Marines is tomorrow’s 25-year-old with an income which he devotes to any army or armies of his choosing.

From an economic standpoint it makes sense to have many different factions to drive many different revenue streams which also keeps current customers loyal by virtue of variety.

New Dark Eldar codex by late 2010, early 2011, I'd bet money.

Lord_Squinty
17-01-2010, 01:10
New Dark Eldar codex by late 2010, early 2011, I'd bet money.

So the rumours go...

And I would expect a DE release to blow the OP's statement out of the water :p

The number of DE players who would do a complete re-do of their army, combined with the number of people that have said they would like to do DE but are waiting for the new dex / models is amazing.

GW will make a fortune

Tymell
17-01-2010, 01:14
The economics argument has never really held up much with me. This one seems to be that GW won't focus on an army that isn't some kind of horde. I can't see any evidence for that.

Nor does that old favourite argument "Why would GW redo an entire range?" work, because there's a very easy answer to that in the form of a precendent: Wood Elves.

And in response to Dark Eldar themselves, we've had some pretty reliable confirmations that they -are- being done, hopefully for late 2010/early 2011.

RampagingRavener
17-01-2010, 01:17
The number of DE players who would do a complete re-do of their army, combined with the number of people that have said they would like to do DE but are waiting for the new dex / models is amazing.

Yea. While I'm by no means an expert when it comes to WHFB, look what happened to the Wood Elves - they were stuck with a decrepit old ruleset (not necessarily weak, but old) with fairly lame models. And got a complete rebuild from the ground up, an entirely new range of fantastic models, and are now, I assume, just as popular as any other Fantasy army. I don't see any reason why a properly handled Dark Eldar re-release would be any different.

EDIT: Ninja'ed on the Wood Elves comparison by a full three minutes. I suck.

Lord_Squinty
17-01-2010, 01:36
Yea. While I'm by no means an expert when it comes to WHFB, look what happened to the Wood Elves - they were stuck with a decrepit old ruleset (not necessarily weak, but old) with fairly lame models. And got a complete rebuild from the ground up, an entirely new range of fantastic models, and are now, I assume, just as popular as any other Fantasy army. I don't see any reason why a properly handled Dark Eldar re-release would be any different.


A prime example - I myself had never thought about WE until I saw the new models - then bought an army of them - models were/are stunning!

Bloodriver
17-01-2010, 01:41
Space Wolves and Blood Angels both needed new codecies in veiw that neither had them readily available, so those releases make sense, and do not necessarily mean that it will be Space Marines ad nauseum for the forseeable future. With SWs and BAs now taken care of, I think GW should and will address the xenos armies most in need.

As has been pointed out, the word is that the new Dark Eldar range has already been modelled, and is just waiting for the right moment. I would guess that Necrons won't be far behind that.

GW aren't stupid. While they know that Space Marines make up a major chunk of their sales, those sales are still dependant on them having some enemies to fight other than just other chapters of Marines. If Marines are the only viable army the hobby dies, and GW know that.

Black Templars and Dark Angels may be less competitive than standard Marines in their present form, but their models are fine, and their codecies are in print and available. So I would think that the xenos armies will see a little long awaited love over the next year or two. Probably Inquisition, too.

Vaktathi
17-01-2010, 01:48
It would also probably help if GW gave a little more marketing attention and support to armies that aren't Space Marines. It's not hard to see why Marines sell well when they are the cheapest armies to build, are featured in absolutely every supplement, video game, major story arc, etc and given far more face time in general.

If GW put a little more marketing effort into other armies, it would not be hard to see them becoming far more popular than they currently are. Given that Dark Eldar for example really haven't had much done with them in *12* years, appear in almost nothing, and haven't been available in stores on shelves or in viewing space for years, it's not hard to see why they aren't popular. If an army doesn't get support and marketing effort, of course it will be unpopular.