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druchii lord narakh
17-01-2010, 05:09
got to play a massive planet strike game and ended in a tie. the new Tyranids are beast with some of the new rules like how genestealers can have broodlords with psychic powers and now the powers are even deadlier. also the new codex is more well balanced then before. id say that the author and rule makes did a great job on this. hope they keep it up. now i wait for dark eldar.

enigma-96
17-01-2010, 05:19
That's awesome to hear and I personally agree with the assesment that it's a good book and I hope that one day the orks, don't need it but still, get the Cruddace treatment.

On a side note though I would like to know who was attacker and who was defender because Planetstrike is woefully unbalanced in favor of the attacker and if the Nidz were able to defend against w/e army they would be playing that would be awesome. Then again it's more likely that the Nidz attacked which kinda makes them look bad due to the attacker advantage, unless the defender was heavily walled up. Basically what I''m rambling on about is Dude! take pictures next time I'd love to see that carnage unfold :D. Seriously though I'm glad to hear that nidz are doing good out there in real life, cuz on the internetz they are getting pwnzored. :rolleyes:

Inquisitor Engel
17-01-2010, 05:34
I think it's remarkable how quickly things turn - When both the Marines, Guard AND Space Wolves were released, people said they were ridiculously overpowered and GW had gone off the deep end etc. etc.

And then things balance - it happens all the time. IMHO The only truly broken Codex GW has ever released (one that could steamroll other armies in 1- a different edition and 2- years after release) a broken Codex is the 3rd Edition Orks Codex, which could be absolutely brutal in the hands of anyone with enough time to paint the models.

S00N3R FR3AK
17-01-2010, 06:20
I think it's remarkable how quickly things turn - When both the Marines, Guard AND Space Wolves were released, people said they were ridiculously overpowered and GW had gone off the deep end etc. etc.

And then things balance - it happens all the time. IMHO The only truly broken Codex GW has ever released (one that could steamroll other armies in 1- a different edition and 2- years after release) a broken Codex is the 3rd Edition Orks Codex, which could be absolutely brutal in the hands of anyone with enough time to paint the models.

Ok so those 4 are balanced it doesn't mean they are balanced with the rest of the game. imo power creep has been too big for SW and nids. I never felt like SM or IG were over the top but SW and the new nids have some very nasty stuff that just seems way over the top. (str 10 ap 1 lance.......)

azimaith
17-01-2010, 06:27
An 18 inch psychic power requiring lance is overpowered?

It gets one shot (unless there's a hood) then someone is going to charge it so it can't do it anymore. Is it good anti-tank? Sure, but getting up to 18" without a drop pod (and if it is a drop pod, not getting charged the turn after) is going to be difficult.

Omniassiah
17-01-2010, 06:39
The big thing is not whether you can build a balanced list. Most Codexes can build a balanced list no matter how overpowered they are. Its whether the true power gamed lists work in a standard scenarios. And I have done at least one list that anyone not fielding a SW Jotww list would be very difficult to beat me on average dice rolls.

Be honest I have found that Zoans and Genestealers to be about on par but some of the newer stuff like the trygon primes and Tervigons to be a living nightmare. When used in mass numbers together and can fairly easily get at least a draw in most scenarios.

Cognitave
17-01-2010, 07:07
I played against them as well today. My opponent had 5 tervigons, 3 units of guants, one carnifex, the Doom, and some zoanthropes. If I had brought plasma-veterans instead of meltavets, I think the game would have gone a lot better for me. The Doom of Malan'tai killed 7 vets with one shot. If my opponent had, say, a tyrant and termagaunts instead, I think I would have been annihilated.

It's not a bad book, it just requires a change in thinking (which is the hard part).

cotillion989
17-01-2010, 08:37
I just had my first game with the new Nids book. They conceded turn 5 and that was with some pretty bad luck on my part. The new book seems beastly.

Thud
17-01-2010, 08:42
It's not a bad book, it just requires a change in thinking (which is the hard part).

Seeing as how Orks are somehow considered one of the top armies by so many, I'd say it borders on insurmountable. :p

azimaith
17-01-2010, 09:04
My biggest issue is it doesn't scale especially well to middle point games.
A tyrant is too expensive for 1500, a prime is too weedy(not to mention slow), same goes for the carnifex and by extension, possibly the tyrannofex.
At 1k points you're probably fine with a prime and a 2k you can probably fit a tyrant in without hurting bad, but at 1500 its a very very difficult balance between sufficient anti-tank, anti infantry, and objective takers.

Dag
17-01-2010, 09:38
My biggest issue is it doesn't scale especially well to middle point games.
A tyrant is too expensive for 1500, a prime is too weedy(not to mention slow), same goes for the carnifex and by extension, possibly the tyrannofex.
At 1k points you're probably fine with a prime and a 2k you can probably fit a tyrant in without hurting bad, but at 1500 its a very very difficult balance between sufficient anti-tank, anti infantry, and objective takers.

thats the same for most armies.

to get a character with the same capabilities of a tyrant it costs you about the same. the alpha is your "really cool sgt." hero.

i agree you hq is limited, but the tyrant, while expensive fulfills several roles.
decent psyker, psyker disabler, and anti tank. MC = tankbusting on decent rolls.

the zoanthropes have an 18"Railgun, not as nasty as a railgun or a broadside, or meltaguns. its the 'anti-landraider' toy. so... dont drive your landraider up to it. use reg marines to drive up and double tapping or mass small arms fire to bring them down, tie them down with assault troops of some kind.

i love nids and this book makes me want to start them up. it looks like it has a well rounded army that can be fielded in many different ways. Excited to play against some more.

one thing i do NOT like is how there is an abundance of new assault X weapons armies are giving str5 to. these all seem to be massive calibre heavy machine gun that is fired while charging in.... while this is great in picture and awesomeness quality, when you have a unit of str5 assault3 guns over 5 it gets pretty sick... especially with multiple wounds.

dont forget if it says "psykic shooting attack" you still roll to hit.

azimaith
17-01-2010, 10:27
There's only one assault x weapons in the new dex and many of our powers auto-hit.

Anyhow, I think if they gave the prime option for wings (so he could join shrikes or normal footslogging warriors) it would make him a really good medium hero for 1500 points.

Bestial Fury
17-01-2010, 11:47
Ok so those 4 are balanced it doesn't mean they are balanced with the rest of the game. imo power creep has been too big for SW and nids. I never felt like SM or IG were over the top but SW and the new nids have some very nasty stuff that just seems way over the top. (str 10 ap 1 lance.......)

There is no power creep. You can't look at one thing in a vacuum and say it is "power creep". Power Creep is something I personally don't believe. It seems more like "OMG it's new and powerful, we are all dooooomed!" creep.

There are many uber powerful builds in the vanilla codex. Especially Hestan. And just try to match SW termies to those crazy storm shield/Thunder hammer carrying nutters.

I have not played against nids but from what Intel I've gathered they don't seem over the top. They have some very dangerous builds, but each army has that as they should.

pootleberry
17-01-2010, 15:08
Played against the new codex last night. I thought I'd have a go with a Terminator heavy Imperial Fists list, 1,500 points per side. I had four cyclone launchers over the two Terminator squads led by Lysander, with two Scout squads as Troops.

The Tyranids do not like S8 AP3 weapons one bit, especially when they're fired in salvoes of four. The Warriors, although three wounds, just got annihilated due to ID. The blast weapons made short work of the little guys and when my terminators were charged by 30 Gaunts the fearless rule made them lose huge amounts of troops. In addition, all the monstrous creatures have a 3+ save and can't get cover easily so they just got bladdered, mega-wounds or not.

I am going to try Lysander, 20 terminators (4 cyclones), 20 tactical marines: 5 kill-points and a potential 4 scoring units. Very nasty.

I certainly didn't notice any appreciable power creep, although they do have some nice new units and I'm happy that the Stealers are what they are now.

herald of kairos
17-01-2010, 15:56
the answer to the lysander issue rests with the Swarmlord lets see you pass those invulnerable saves twice.

pootleberry
17-01-2010, 16:04
In theory the Swarmlord is superbly nasty against Lysander but the eight krak missiles puts quite a dent in monstrous creatures and the storm bolters wound on a 6... The Tyrant Guard were really good as their toughness enables them to soak up lots of high strength wounds, almost a must have for protecting the Tyrants.

itcamefromthedeep
17-01-2010, 16:08
the answer to the lysander issue rests with the Swarmlord lets see you pass those invulnerable saves twice.
8 krak missiles a turn, plus storm bolter fire? I don't think he'll make it to close combat, even with a full complement of Tyrant Guard. Even once he gets there, the Swarmlord has 4 Wounds of Eternal Warrior to kill, which will likely give Lysander a chance to swing. It ain't pretty for the big guy.

Vaktathi
17-01-2010, 16:12
8 krak missiles a turn, plus storm bolter fire? I don't think he'll make it to close combat, even with a full complement of Tyrant Guard. Even once he gets there, the Swarmlord has 4 Wounds of Eternal Warrior to kill, which will likely give Lysander a chance to swing. It ain't pretty for the big guy.

In a fight between lysander and the swarmlord however, my money's on the swarmlord every time. It's hitting first, hitting more often, and hitting harder, and forcing that 3++ to be rerolled. He can also reduce Lysander to WS1 before he charges in, getting hit only on 5's back.

itcamefromthedeep
17-01-2010, 16:23
In a fight between lysander and the swarmlord however, my money's on the swarmlord every time. It's hitting first, hitting more often, and hitting harder, and forcing that 3++ to be rerolled. He can also reduce Lysander to WS1 before he charges in, getting hit only on 5's back.
Yes. Unhurt, with Paroxysm on the way in, smart money is on the Swarmlord.

However, he's in an army with a ton of krak missiles that couldn't ask for a better target, sitting in a 10-man Terminator squad.

Thw Swarmlord is awesome, but Lysander and a Terminator squad?

pootleberry
17-01-2010, 16:24
The psychic power which reduces the WS (or BS) was very effective. In the first game, when I was using some thunder hammer terminators, this power made my assault very ineffective and the terminators were cut down by the tyrant.

massey
17-01-2010, 17:28
Eh, I don't think we'll see the Swarmlord much. He's very expensive, and only really efficient when used against high priced characters with good invulnerables and no eternal warrior. That's a pretty select group. What will he do against the player who brings only a basic chaplain as their HQ choice? Well, he'll probably kill the chaplain, but big whoop, you killed a 100 point guy.

The Swarmlord is overkill for most stuff, and he's really expensive overkill. The other player will see where you deploy him, as from what I remember he can't take a mycetic spore. So he's got to walk all the way across the board to get to you. It should be easy enough to keep expensive, vulnerable units away from him.

Dag
17-01-2010, 17:38
20 terminators and 20 marines is NOT a balanced list in any regard, then you throw in the lamest Special hero in the dex? lol no wonder you didnt have any trouble, you took the perfect anti tyranid army lol. rerolling storm bolters, str8ap3 guns and blast templates, with lysander... who we all know is just stupid w4...why? he's a captain not a chapter master, str10 rerolling th....ok thats just lame.... then a 3invul, ok thats fine, and eternal warrior.. ok theres some problems now. 40marines is an embarrassing army to field imo, you have no diversity and against any intelligent player who isnt playing a horde army, you'd be massacred, IG would just sit back with their leman russ' that you cant pen, and blast you to bits. but if your defending then yes, thats about as goob as it gets. god i hate how EVERYONE who plays vanilla marines justifies taking vulkan or lysander, hell ive seen multiple special heroes in a 1500 list, stop taking heroes to compliment rediculous troop loadouts and your inability to use your ACTUAL army, not some golden boy*(lysanders yellow, lol)

TheShadowCow
17-01-2010, 17:45
Eh, I don't think we'll see the Swarmlord much. He's very expensive, and only really efficient when used against high priced characters with good invulnerables and no eternal warrior. That's a pretty select group. What will he do against the player who brings only a basic chaplain as their HQ choice? Well, he'll probably kill the chaplain, but big whoop, you killed a 100 point guy.

The Swarmlord is overkill for most stuff, and he's really expensive overkill. The other player will see where you deploy him, as from what I remember he can't take a mycetic spore. So he's got to walk all the way across the board to get to you. It should be easy enough to keep expensive, vulnerable units away from him.

He also has a bunch of army-enhancing powers for the swarm to benefit from. He's much more than just a character-killer. At the very least, he's tri-purpose; i) elite killing machine, ii) army enhancement, iii) complete and obvious fire magnet

Vepr
17-01-2010, 17:56
He also has a bunch of army-enhancing powers for the swarm to benefit from. He's much more than just a character-killer. At the very least, he's tri-purpose; i) elite killing machine, ii) army enhancement, iii) complete and obvious fire magnet

His extended synapse is handy also. It is just painful putting him in a list under 1750 especially since he is not exactly durable he needs his guards.

vladsimpaler
17-01-2010, 18:44
There is no power creep. You can't look at one thing in a vacuum and say it is "power creep". Power Creep is something I personally don't believe. It seems more like "OMG it's new and powerful, we are all dooooomed!" creep.

Really, there is no power creep? Compare the Witch Hunters to the new Spacewolves.

Ironmonger
17-01-2010, 19:13
20 terminators and 20 marines is NOT a balanced list in any regard, then you throw in the lamest Special hero in the dex? lol no wonder you didnt have any trouble, you took the perfect anti tyranid army lol. rerolling storm bolters, str8ap3 guns and blast templates, with lysander... who we all know is just stupid w4...why? he's a captain not a chapter master, str10 rerolling th....ok thats just lame.... then a 3invul, ok thats fine, and eternal warrior.. ok theres some problems now. 40marines is an embarrassing army to field imo, you have no diversity and against any intelligent player who isnt playing a horde army, you'd be massacred, IG would just sit back with their leman russ' that you cant pen, and blast you to bits. but if your defending then yes, thats about as goob as it gets. god i hate how EVERYONE who plays vanilla marines justifies taking vulkan or lysander, hell ive seen multiple special heroes in a 1500 list, stop taking heroes to compliment rediculous troop loadouts and your inability to use your ACTUAL army, not some golden boy*(lysanders yellow, lol)

Poor writing aside, this is both true and obvious.

Would like to hear how the 'nids do against other armies out there. SoB with Exorcists?

itcamefromthedeep
17-01-2010, 19:13
Really, there is no power creep? Compare the Witch Hunters to the new Spacewolves.
I'll see your Witch Hunters and raise you Dark Eldar, which is among the most powerful armies at high-tier play.

Then there a Daemonhunters, some of which see play in the best Guard lists.

---

Sometimes power creep is there, sometimes it isn't.

TheSanityAssassin
17-01-2010, 19:42
I took a run at the new bugs with my Space Elves the other day and gave them a pretty solid kicking with the same Eldar list I've been using for the last...ever. It even had Guardians in it. I learned a few things about the new bugs from doing it though.

1. Hordes of little guys CAN work, especially with venomthropes following them giving them the cover save. However you have to have a LOT of them. There doesn't seem to be much benifit in taking a middling number of little guys...it's too easy to whittle a squad of 15 or 20 down to a size that it won't do a thing when it hits CC.

2. Genestealers outflanking still works, but are much more of a throw-away, even with a broodlord. They don't survive the first turn they spend on the board with only a 5+ save...it's pretty easy to force them to either a) assault where you want them to or b) just...stay away from the board edges and they're kind of boned.

3. Tyrants are PRICEY at 1850 without any guard, and just don't stand up very well. I think some guard would make a big difference, but then you're eating a lot of points for something that's still quite avoidable.

4. Walking Carnifexes also don't seem to do well. I know Eldar have a wack of AP3, but still....it's not that hard to kill 4 wounds at T6 with only a 3+ save...

5. A Carni in a spore with bio-plasma hurts a LOT more. It's pricey, but it can come in, smash a unit with a shot, and then only give you 1 turn to kill it before it hits combat. Suddenly it's more scary.

6. Deathleaper is fun.

7. Mawloc NEEDS to be able to deepstrike onto a unit to be worth it. I hope the FAQ allows it. That's how we played him, and he worked out OK, but he'd be worthless if you couldn't purposely deepstrike him onto something.

8. Gargoyles can be great...but also need a big swarm.


As it stood the new book didn't scare me all that much, but quite admittedly my opponent was actively playtesting and trying to figure out what the models he had lovingly converted could do in the new book....I'm a little more worried to face something with a lot more of those scary 6 wounders, or triple the number of little guys.

pootleberry
17-01-2010, 21:29
20 terminators and 20 marines is NOT a balanced list in any regard, then you throw in the lamest Special hero in the dex? lol no wonder you didnt have any trouble, you took the perfect anti tyranid army lol. rerolling storm bolters, str8ap3 guns and blast templates, with lysander... who we all know is just stupid w4...why? he's a captain not a chapter master, str10 rerolling th....ok thats just lame.... then a 3invul, ok thats fine, and eternal warrior.. ok theres some problems now. 40marines is an embarrassing army to field imo, you have no diversity and against any intelligent player who isnt playing a horde army, you'd be massacred, IG would just sit back with their leman russ' that you cant pen, and blast you to bits. but if your defending then yes, thats about as goob as it gets. god i hate how EVERYONE who plays vanilla marines justifies taking vulkan or lysander, hell ive seen multiple special heroes in a 1500 list, stop taking heroes to compliment rediculous troop loadouts and your inability to use your ACTUAL army, not some golden boy*(lysanders yellow, lol)

Good grief, touched a nerve? I've played Imperial Fists for years and yes Lysander is good. What's wrong with taking a terminator heavy list exactly? My 'normal' SM army is 3 x tactical squads, 1 x assault squad and 1 x devastator squad with supporting units to represent a demi-company. I fancied a change...

Leman Russ are nice but with run I can get across that field and if my memory serves me correctly the rear armour of a Leman Russ is not all that great against powerfists. Oh, Leman Russ are fielded in squadrons now so can share the pain, great stuff.

I am not justifying taking Lysander, he's a good character. Get over yourself and stop ranting.

totgeboren
17-01-2010, 23:06
Faced Nids today with my Word Bearers. He had i think it was 127 wounds in a 1500 pts list. A huge amount of gaunts, a hive, carnifex, basic warriors, zoanthrope and also the new Venomthrope, gargoyles and a Trygon.

I have faced the new Hive Tyrant twice now, and I hate it! (In a good way.) Its ability to heal with regen and essence drain makes it one of the toughest creatures to deal with in the game imo. As long as the enemy can throw some distraction in the way, the Hive can keep takeing punishment and just heal it up.

Also, I thought my Tzeentchian sorcerer with warptime and a force weapon would be the perfect counter vs his big bugs, but the Hive totally neutralized him. Shadow in the Warp is awesome, and helps nids deal with their vulnerability vs force weapons nicely.

I really like how synapse works now too. When the bugs got outside of synapse, they behaved in a fitting way. And also, they are really vulnerable now when they lack synapse, since they easily lose combat and flee and then get overrun.

All in all the game was very close, ending in a draw with extreme losses on both sides. A really good codex all in all i must say.

vladsimpaler
17-01-2010, 23:55
I'll see your Witch Hunters and raise you Dark Eldar, which is among the most powerful armies at high-tier play.

Then there a Daemonhunters, some of which see play in the best Guard lists.

---

Sometimes power creep is there, sometimes it isn't.

Dark Eldar are an example of an outlier-even then, virtually everything outside of Raider/Wych Spam is terrible and never sees play in tournaments.

And Daemonhunters...well it's really just Mystics that see play in Imperial army lists.

But there -is- power creep. The Tyranids seem to have averted a good amount of the power creep that has come along lately which is a good thing.

TheSanityAssassin
18-01-2010, 02:22
I have faced the new Hive Tyrant twice now, and I hate it! (In a good way.) Its ability to heal with regen and essence drain makes it one of the toughest creatures to deal with in the game imo. As long as the enemy can throw some distraction in the way, the Hive can keep takeing punishment and just heal it up.


I really like how synapse works now too. When the bugs got outside of synapse, they behaved in a fitting way. And also, they are really vulnerable now when they lack synapse, since they easily lose combat and flee and then get overrun.



I definitely agree about liking the new Synapse. It wouldn't be "instinctive" for such a thing to just turn an run for it if synapse left.

What kind of kit did the fellow you played put on his Hive? The one that I ran into was extremely squishy against shooting, and just too slow to make it before it got bogged down. Flying would probably help, but it's soo expensive and stops you from getting Guard, which I think would almost be worse....flying and a 2+ is prohibitively expensive to me, especially if you get any decent powers....

Also, what kind of Word Bearer list did you take against them. Mine involves a Terminator Dark Apostle with Daemon Weapon, two 10-man combi weapon terminator squads, 2 10 man Rhino attack squads with 2x melta in one and 2x flamer in the other, and either 2 large summoned daemon squads or 3 smaller ones. I feel pretty good about my ability to deal with lots of little bugs, but I don't like how close I'll have to get to the big ones in order to hurt them....and the thought of a Mawloc horrifies my termies...

azimaith
18-01-2010, 02:35
If your going to be using mycetic spores you need to use a alot of them and deep strike close together in order to form a LOS wall of them. The point of them is not really to strike at important targets but rather to deploy your army at a later turn in the midst of the enemy.

Keetoowah
18-01-2010, 03:28
Ok so those 4 are balanced it doesn't mean they are balanced with the rest of the game. imo power creep has been too big for SW and nids. I never felt like SM or IG were over the top but SW and the new nids have some very nasty stuff that just seems way over the top. (str 10 ap 1 lance.......)

Tyrannofex Assult 20........

LKHERO
18-01-2010, 03:44
Tyrannofex Assult 20........

Which does something like 3.5 wounds vs Marines.

linuvian
18-01-2010, 03:55
I played a quick game vs. the new tyranids this week as well. I had a necron force of 2 warrior squads, 3 destroyers, rez orb lord, and some scarabs. He had some Ravaners, a termagaunt brood, 2 venomthropes for the 5+ CS, a warrior prime with 5-6 more warriors, and the.. tervigon? Not sure on the name, but it pooped out alot of bugs and could take alot of fire.

Anyways, the new book didn't seem to much overpowered from what limited stuff was used. The warriors still die relatively quickly, and the venomthropes are very squishy if targeted. I ran into problems because of the number of units he had, I couldn't take out his prime and his ravaners, and ended up getting wiped out. I think the gimpyness of the necron list at low points screwed me more than the tyranid list. I think if I was playing my tau or orks it would have been a fair game. I'm looking forward to more games against these new tyranids - I flipped through it and I love the potential for variation and playstyle that the book gives. I really hope this is a precursor of things to come.

azimaith
18-01-2010, 05:12
Which does something like 3.5 wounds vs Marines.

And it does so from 12" away. Its a retarded weapon and shouldn't cost you anything to have. Its even more retarded its only available on a land raider equivalent and for an increased price.

Darnok
18-01-2010, 06:31
Tyrannofex Assult 20........

You'd be off much cheaper by just using 20 Termagaunts. The Tyrannofex has its uses, but that weapon is none of the reasons.

totgeboren
18-01-2010, 07:49
What kind of kit did the fellow you played put on his Hive? The one that I ran into was extremely squishy against shooting, and just too slow to make it before it got bogged down. Flying would probably help, but it's soo expensive and stops you from getting Guard, which I think would almost be worse....flying and a 2+ is prohibitively expensive to me, especially if you get any decent powers....

He had a Hive with essence drain, psychic scream (the one where every unit within 12" takes a Ld test...) 2x scything talons and allowed one unit to outflank. He also had 2 Guards.

Turn one and two I unleashed all my long range firepower into his Hive, taking it down to two wounds. But after that, he popped up with his Trygon in my lines, and outflanked with 20 hormagaunts towards my dudes too. The ment I had to try and deal with these dudes, and I left the Hive alone for one turn. Big mistake.

He regened one wound, and life drained one more wounds, and was back to full health and in my lines. After that, I at least managed to kill the Trygon, but the Hive just ate everything he touched.




Also, what kind of Word Bearer list did you take against them.

I had one Terminator Dark Apostle with 4 Terminator buddies teleport down behind his lines. Also, one squad of vets in a rhino that outflanked, and one unit of daemons to act as a speedbump.

My "firebase" was made up of 1 dread with a plasmacannon, one squad of Marines with a plasmagun and missile launcher and lead by a Sorcerer, one squad on marines in a rhino with meltaguns and a PK Champ.

I really need more long range firepower. a unit of 3 Obliterators would have been awesome. I had one weapon with S8 and a range longer than 12".

This is not an optimized list in any way, but it looked very nice on the table. :P

We played using the old "2 objective markers each and random mission", me getting the objective to get 2 squads with less than 50% losses or 2 vehicles operational into his DZ at the end of the game. He got hold the line, and was to defend his objectives.

In the end, I failed since my veterans took one loss too much, but they on the other hand claimed one of the Nid players objectives. The nid player held his home objective with some Hormagaunts, and they were babysat by a Zoanthrope. With some luck, my vets killed the Zoanthrope meaning his hormagaunts lost synapse and attacked my terminators (and got butchered).

My secondary was to claim one of his objectives, so it was a minor win for me. None of us managed to fulfill our primaries, but I managed my secondary.

Oh, the Carnifex fills me with dread btw. That bio-plasma attack makes it sooo much better now. What it does in essence is to give the Carnifex a 18" threat radius, compared to the 12" before, meaning its slow speed is less of an obstacle.

RED9335
18-01-2010, 08:44
I don't think space wolves suffer from powercreep, then again I haven't had many games in with them yet, what is this strength ten ap1 lance you speak of?

azimaith
18-01-2010, 08:46
Wolves are like space marines except with more beneficial USR's, better weapons, better psychic powers, and more efficient units. Other than all that they're totally similar to space marines. :rolleyes:

The S10 AP1 lance is the zoanthropes 18" psychic power.

Vineas
18-01-2010, 08:55
24" counting movement. So a multi-melta that is S10 and reduces all armor above 12 to 12.

Yeah, I think my screamer killers will be lots of fun.

azimaith
18-01-2010, 09:00
I don't see much of a point in 170-210 point carnifex for plasma cannons. Don't we have a large blast plasma cannon like weapon with 6 wounds that does that? The re-rolls to hit from the fex talons and the one extra attack doesn't make up the 2 less wounds, lack of innate deep strike, the smaller template, and the 3 less initiative. Not to mention said mawloc is 40 points cheaper than your deep striking barebones carni.

All your gaining is one attack, re-rolls, and s9.

S6 2d6 or adrenal glands s7 2d6 is enough to tear apart any tank thats not a monolith.

LKHERO
18-01-2010, 09:41
I don't see much of a point in 170-210 point carnifex for plasma cannons. Don't we have a large blast plasma cannon like weapon with 6 wounds that does that? The re-rolls to hit from the fex talons and the one extra attack doesn't make up the 2 less wounds, lack of innate deep strike, the smaller template, and the 3 less initiative. Not to mention said mawloc is 40 points cheaper than your deep striking barebones carni.

All your gaining is one attack, re-rolls, and s9.

S6 2d6 or adrenal glands s7 2d6 is enough to tear apart any tank thats not a monolith.

No, but I can see a list like this working:


2000

HQ:
Tyranid Prime (Adrenal, Toxin, Dual Boneswords, ST) = 110

TROOP:
7x Warriors (Adrenal, Rending, Venom Cannon) = 295
10x Genestealers = 140
10x Genestealers = 140
10x Genestealers = 140

ELITE:
Death Leaper = 140
3x Zoanthrope (Spore) = 220

HEAVY:
3x Carnifex (Bio-Plasma, 2x ST) = 540
Trygon Prime (Regen, Adrenal) = 275

You have 30 Genestealers in 3 groups, a big squad of Warriors and 3 Fexes with a 18" plasma threat range coming towards you. You have 1 turn of shooting to pick the target largest on your threat.. because next turn I'm COMING FOR YOU.

The Carnifexes also offer awesome counter-charge opportunities. That's 15 S9 attacks with re-rolls to hit. And the Trygon is going to come out soon after the Death Leaper hits the field. I mean man.. you got some serious decision making to do before I'm all over you.

azimaith
18-01-2010, 10:40
No, but I can see a list like this working:
You have 30 Genestealers in 3 groups, a big squad of Warriors and 3 Fexes with a 18" plasma threat range coming towards you. You have 1 turn of shooting to pick the target largest on your threat.. because next turn I'm COMING FOR YOU.

I'm going to be parked as far back as I can. First the genestealers closest die. Then the warriors, then the trygon. When the fex finally reach me i'm moving on objectives walking away from them.

If I'm mechanized I instead shoot the zoanthropes and then the trygon and drive away from the rest, dealing with the genestealers and warriors if it becomes necessary.



The Carnifexes also offer awesome counter-charge opportunities. That's 15 S9 attacks with re-rolls to hit. And the Trygon is going to come out soon after the Death Leaper hits the field. I mean man.. you got some serious decision making to do before I'm all over you.
Who is going to charge your carnifex, your warriors, or your genestealers. That's retarded. Other armies have things called guns they use.

Here's a 2k points take all comers IG list.
220
Company Command Squad: 4 plasma+plasma pistol, officer of the fleet, Chimera, Turret HB, Hull Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor.

195
Veteran Squad:3 Plasma Guns, plasma pistol, Chimera, Turret HB, Hull Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor

170
Veteran Squad: 3 Meltaguns, Chimera, Turret HB, Hull Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor

155
Veteran Squad: 3 Grenade Launchers, Chimera, Turret HB, Hull Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor

155
Veteran Squad: 3 Grenade Launchers, Chimera, Turret HB, Hull Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor

390
3x Vendettas: 3 TL Lascannons each, Extra Armor.

160
Hellhound, Extra Armor, Multi-Melta:

210
3x Armoured Sentinels, Extra Armor, Smoke, Missile launchers.

180
Leman Russ Demolisher: Smoke Launchers, hull Heavy Flamer, Extra armor.

165
Leman Russ Battle Tank: Smoke Launchers, hull Heavy Flamer, Extra Armor

itcamefromthedeep
18-01-2010, 13:45
3x Carnifex (Bio-Plasma, 2x ST) = 540
If I may suggest instead:

Hive Tyrant
3 Tyrant Guard

3 Zoanthropes

...which comes out to 530.

Grax
18-01-2010, 21:46
I fought a 'new codex' Tyranid army over the weekend, and I like the changes they made to the army. I wouldn't say they're overly powerful, but they're far more competitive.

To sum up, what they basically did was make troops much cheaper, the monstrous creatures more expensive, limit options on wargear (all the new codexes have been doing this), add a few special characters, add a version of a drop pod (holds a small number of troops, or a carnifex), and give them much better shooting/psychic powers.

Of all the new codexes, I think I like this one the best, simply because it's the most 'balanced'. It made them far more competitive without making them 'game breakingly' powerful.

Anyway, the game ended in a tie, but it was definitely in his favor. It's my own fault really, I didn't bring enough anti-infantry weapons, and sort of got swarmed (I was using Chaos Daemons).

It was a really fun game though, and I look forward to facing them again.

TheSanityAssassin
19-01-2010, 00:21
I really need more long range firepower. a unit of 3 Obliterators would have been awesome. I had one weapon with S8 and a range longer than 12".

This is not an optimized list in any way, but it looked very nice on the table. :P




Yeah....I don't even have that with mine....I also went for pretty over functional...though I have a Havoc squad waiting for conversions that I might have to finish and start stepping in for some of the Terminators...

I really do love the Bio-plasma option for the 'fexes. BioPlasma in a Mycetic Spore frightens me quite a bit....