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lordlorien
17-01-2010, 23:05
Greetings fellow Generals,

I just restarted the hobby after 10 year break and got my old Empire and Beastman armies out. Since Beastman still take a couple weeks i thought I start up on an Empire Army List for 7th edition Book. I would love to get some feedback on my 2k point Empire project before I go all out frenzy while charging my local GW-Store. Would be a shame to buy ... and especially paint ... all those nice modells and being not able to play with em afterwards. Army ain't supposed to be allpowerful. I just put together a list which I thought would be kinda Empireish and fun to play. I guess first matches will be against Vamps and Lizards played by a friend out of the game for like 8 years too.

Here it goes:

Arch Lector (300)
War Altar
Sword of Might, Armor Metoric Iron, Aldred's Casket of Scorcery

Captain of the Empire (125) (Planning on putting into Swordsman)
BSB
Sword of Battle, Dawn Armor

Battle Wizard (135)
lvl 2 Upgrade
Warhorse, Dispel Scroll

Battle Wizard (125)
lvl 2 Upgrade
Dispel Scroll

24 x Swordsman (293)
Full Command (plus BSB, see above)
8 Detachment Archers
10 Detachment Spearman

17 x Greatswords (200) (Planning on placing one Wizard in here)
Full Command

18 x Flagellants (190)
Unit Champ

5 x Outriders (121) (Planning on placing one Wizard in here)
Unit Champ wearing Rep. Handgun too

10 x Handgunners (100)
Unit Champ wearing Rep. Handgun

10 x Handgunners (100)
Unit Champ wearing Rep. Handgun

Helblaster Volley Gun

2 x Great Cannon

Altogether that should sum up to 1.999 points totalling at 119 Models.
Points split to:
Characters 685
Core 493
Rare 300
Special 521

As written all the way up: I would gladly take advice, hints, and feedback of any kind.

Thanks a Lot!
Greets Lorien

Commodus Leitdorf
18-01-2010, 00:08
Welcome back to the hobby! Dust off those State troops! Its time to kill stuff!!



Arch Lector (300)
War Altar
Sword of Might, Armor Metoric Iron, Aldred's Casket of Scorcery

Here I recommend the the Speculum instead of the casket. Mostly because you Lector is on a large target Chariot so you must fear STR7 hits...and most STR7 comes from nasty characters. Switching up their stats for yours protects your Arch Lectors means of defense, the altar itself.



Captain of the Empire (125) (Planning on putting into Swordsman)
BSB
Sword of Battle, Dawn Armor

slap him on a barded horse for a 2+ rerollable armour save! Much better since right now hes asking to be eaten



Battle Wizard (135)
lvl 2 Upgrade
Warhorse, Dispel Scroll

Battle Wizard (125)
lvl 2 Upgrade
Dispel Scroll

Drop the scroll on one and give him the Rod of Power. Makes a magic phase SOOO much better!



24 x Swordsman (293)
Full Command (plus BSB, see above)
8 Detachment Archers
10 Detachment Spearman

Good, though I've never tried spears in a detachment (mostly as they only get to fight in 2 ranks on the turn after they charge...and I never expect my state troops to last that long in combat)



17 x Greatswords (200) (Planning on placing one Wizard in here)
Full Command

18 x Flagellants (190)
Unit Champ

Good staying power here, but be careful with the baiting that can happen with the flaggies



5 x Outriders (121) (Planning on placing one Wizard in here)
Unit Champ wearing Rep. Handgun too

10 x Handgunners (100)
Unit Champ wearing Rep. Handgun

10 x Handgunners (100)
Unit Champ wearing Rep. Handgun

A nice wall of lead to whittle down the enemy, me likey



Helblaster Volley Gun

2 x Great Cannon

I use a similar warmachine setup, 2 cannons are a must and the Helbalster has surprised me the last couple of games I've played with it. Both good choices.

Overall, a good fun list! Have fun with it!

FLUEVOG
18-01-2010, 00:27
if you can find the points, the Banner of Sigismund on the BSB would be helpful - makes the Swordsmen stubborn 8 which matches nicely with the rest of your infantry blocks.

As for missile troops, I prefer the extended range of the Crossbow to the Handgun

lordlorien
18-01-2010, 19:39
Ok thanks for the feedback so far. The Sigmar change sounds reasonable as does the rod of power for scroll switch. On the other hand I am wondering if i can put a mounted character into an infantry unit? Since the only cav I got in there is the Outriders and they won't be near the area I want the BSB at. And that BSB hero outside an unit sounds pretty deadly too ... having 2+ save or not.

The choice of Banner sounds nice ... need to find some points for it prolly.
Yah I took the handguns as example since crossbows are the same price. I would usually play handguns vs. armored troops and crossbows vs. unarmored I guess. But considering the modells I like the Handgunners much better so thats what will be built first :).

pick_me
19-01-2010, 13:31
Yes, you can put a mounted character with a block of infantry. There has been a thread on that not too long ago. There was a debate on how he fits in and IIRC, if you put him in the middle he will just take the spot of 2 troops (still giving complete rank bonus) or you can just add him to the side of the block. Either way it wont be a perfect fit due to base size.

Cxxxxx xxCxx
Cxxxxx xxCxx
_xxxxx xxxxx
_xxxxx xxxxx
_______xx

Bladelord
19-01-2010, 13:58
Like the list but the Griffon Standard would probably be better than Sigismund in my opinion.

lordlorien
19-01-2010, 18:43
Hehe nice Formation there Pick_Up! Thought at first wtf does that yibberish stuff do at the end of his post ... now I got it :=)! Oki thanks for the info anyhow, didnt know that, though it looks a lil awkward tbh.

Seems the list is at least when coming to the modells finished since only comments came considering the magic Items / Equipment and not the units as such. Guess its spending time tomorrow ;).

Army Project upcoming !

I rather miss Knights though ... but I dont see how they can be squeezed into the list without swapping an Inf. unit to 5 Knights ... i think greatswords and flags are better but since i didnt play in awhile i might be wrong.

Commodus Leitdorf
19-01-2010, 21:25
Like the list but the Griffon Standard would probably be better than Sigismund in my opinion.

I agree with this. If you want to give your BSB a banner, the Griffon banner is the way to go. While the Banner of Sigismund is a good banner, it doesn't help you win combat. It just makes it easier to not run away after you lose (unless against stuff that causes fear that is...then your still running!)

The best bet is the Griffon banner as it can help you win combat and not have to take a break test...or take a break test on a much better number then you would without it.

HOWEVER...unlike other new books, our BSB's are lacking...he will, at best, have a 2+ save on a barded warhorse. He is really easy to kill, so if your going to do this I recommend being careful with him.

lordlorien
19-01-2010, 21:35
So do I read that as get Griffon Banner for BSB / go without magical Banner or as a skip the BSB completly and get something other decent ?

Souppilgrim
20-01-2010, 02:35
BSB's with empire aren't that straight forward. Griffon banner is great, but that means he get's no defensive magic items and will die to a loud burp. Give him some defensive items and then he becomes a points sink that doesn't have a magic banner and still dies without too much trouble from almost any enemy hero.

Bladelord
20-01-2010, 14:34
HOWEVER...unlike other new books, our BSB's are lacking...he will, at best, have a 2+ save on a barded warhorse. He is really easy to kill, so if your going to do this I recommend being careful with him.

Sounds like a 2+ save with T4 are better than High Elves with 2+ T3 immune to fire, or Dark Elves with 1+ save T3.

Sn4k30r
23-01-2010, 11:23
Put steam-tank and knights the power of empire infantry is not so good.....imo...

LordMoriar
23-01-2010, 12:19
You need to give your infantry some kind of role. Every one of them. Greatsword and flagellants are easy. These can hit pretty hard, and wont run away if they lose. Keep the GS close to the BSB, btw :)

To give your swordsmen a role you gotta set up a winning combination. The detachment will help in this, the griffon banner will also.. I would advise against using spearmen as detachment. If anything use these as the main block and swordsmen as the detach. Your deatchment need only survive not add additional attacks. Once they drop under 5 theyre useless. 4+ save helps here. A common empire tactic is the 9 man detachmen in a 3x3 formation. The rankbonus you need comes from the parent regiment. A small deatchment will be easier to maneuver, and harder to charge if placed between two units. Also 9 men, copared to 8 or less means 3 casualties to cause a panic test. If you feel like shaving some points then drop the archers down to minimum size, 5. With a smaller front on your detachment this should be enough to block all line of sight to both the parent and the detachment. Smaller size is again easier to maneuver. All this goes for the greatswords also, if you feel like running them with detachments. Although with your handgunners you might have problems with enough deployment space :P

Ive run both crossbowmen and handgunners in my list. Currently im giving the handgunners a good tryout. Running a 10man squad w/champ(no weapon) isnt really convincing i might say. I think a heavier shooting round like yours 39 shots compared to my 10 should have a more powerful impact on the battle. Whats that; ~8 kills against man eq regiments. Should cause a panic test each round and wipe most in 3. Im saying this because you said you miss knights. Im never leaving home without atleast a 5man knight unit with a musician - vanilla knights as they are called. These are used for goading enemy units. Charge weak units, block charges then flee and when i lure my enemy into a good setup i might charge a flank. With the 1+ AS you can even charge most normal regiments in the front, expect no casualties, lose the combat and outrun them. All this without losing a single point. This can pull regiments out of his line.

lordlorien
23-01-2010, 17:24
First of all: Thanks for the nice advice :). I just bought the Empire Brigarde Box, so Knight modells are available now too ... at least as soon as I get em glued up ;). All these new modells are really great compared to my 90's style metall soldiers. Guess I end up throwing most old modells into the graveyard, except the character modells and warmachines. Funniest comparison so far was the very old metall Stank to the up to date version ;). My old one fits like on an ogre base ... always seemed a lil funny.

Gonna sit down later tonight and make a lil variation of the above setup with some of the advice you all gave and hope to fit in a small unit of knights ... 150 points roughly I guess to clean out of the original list for the knights. Stank though won't make it for starters though I think. would hate to go too heavy in warmachines and already got 2 cannons and a helblaster. Like I said, will start with some friendly games.

Greets Lorien