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View Full Version : Dwarf player needs help, so many grudges



Skullking
18-01-2010, 05:11
Hi, I've been playing with this list, and have not had any luck with it. Now granted, I have been going up against some very skilled opponents, and I myself am not a very skilled WaFaBa player (more of a 40k guy). But I thought I'd run my list past a few people 'in the know' and see how I could modify it, to make it more useful.

Here it is 2,250pts,

Runelord, great weapon, on Anvil of doom

Thane, Battle standard
Rune of cleaving, Rune of Speed
Master Rune of Gromril

Master Engineer


20 x Dwarf Warriors, champ, standard, mus.

15 x Longbeards, champ, standard, mus.

12 x Quarellers

10 x Thunderers

10 x Thunderers

10 x Miners, champ, standard, mus.

15 x Ironbreakers, champ, standard (Ancestor Rune, Rune of Courage), mus.

Cannon rune of reloading

Bolt Thrower + Engineer

Bolt Thrower (the master engineer attaches to this one)

Organ Gun (the master engineer entrenches this usually)

Gyro Copter

That all comes to 2,248.

Any thoughts on what might need to be changed, and or, how I could play with them better.

Also, i can add the pts totals for each unit, but I didn't think we were allowed to do that.

Thanks!!!:D

Gromdal
18-01-2010, 11:24
Tbh dwarfs are in a terrible state atm. If you want to win change to DE, demons or VC.

For a stronger dwarf list, field alot more bolt thrs (very cheap for their power).

graymer
18-01-2010, 15:59
Dwarfs are a very solid army still. I'd stick with them. There are certainly some changes that your list can benefit from.

If you're set on the anvil, I'd suggest a kit like this: GW, SH, anvil, RoStone, RoPreservation, RoSpellbreaking (2), RoFurnace. Great magic defense and all around survivability.

BSB. Drop the RoSpeed. Go with MRoGromril, RoResistance, RoCleaving, RoFurnace. 1+ rerollable, S5, immune to flaming. Ace combat combo there. Stick him in your LB.

Most of the issues with the list lie in unit sizes and distribution. Here are some helpful hints. For RnF combat troops, never go with less than 20 as Dwarfs. I'll give some options below.

Warriors: With an anvil, I've had great success running my Warriors with GW instead of shields. The S5 really helps out with some extra combat punch. At this size, you can afford to go to 15, or even 10 strong if you wish.

Longbeards: Give them at least 20 beards. Full command of course, which you already have listed. Now you can either make them an anvil with a RoStoicism and RoBattle combo. Or make them more resilient to Fear/Terror with RoCourage and RoDetermination. BSB would go here.

Thunderers/Quarrelers: No more than 10 strong. Always give them shields. Should they see combat, the 4+ AS is great. I'd also only take 2 of these. The choices really come down to personal preference.

Miners: Great choice. If you're taking them, take a Steam Drill upgrade also. You want them to show up ASAP so you can start tearing stuff up.

Ironbreakers: I'd swap these guys for Hammerers and have them at least 15 strong. Give them RoCourage and Shields. Great sturdy unit.

Cannon: RoForging and RoBurning. Stick the ME in here. D6 Wounds flaming attacks. Say goodbye to MCs.

BTs: One with RoPenetrating. One with RoPenetrating and RoBurning. 2 S7 choices. Very nice.

Gyrocopter: I'd drop this for another OG, OR drop it altogether and get points for another combat character. Maybe put a Thane in the Miners for a surprise, or get a Dragon Slayer in the list.

Overall, these changes should be great for the list. You're going to see an improvement either way IMO.

lcfr
18-01-2010, 22:24
Master Engineer

I'd say dump him. Maybe take some gadgets for your Runelord instead.

Also, your Thane would be better served w/a RFury instead of RSpeed (which is useless). 4 S5 attacks can help even the odds now and then.

20 x Dwarf Warriors, champ, standard, mus.

15 x Longbeards, champ, standard, mus.

You need more! At least 20 LBs and a couple more warriors; the problem w/15strong LBs is that they're still pretty reliant on static combat res. and so really should have the extra rank. It's also worthwhile giving them either the RStoicism or RCourage, Fear and Terror is so common nowadays we need all the help we can dodging it.

12 x Quarellers

10 x Thunderers

10 x Thunderers

They should really have shields, but if you're starving for points I guess it's ok. Maybe drop one of these units to have some points available to beef up other units?

I'd only suggest this because I feel that w/Dwarfs you're really best off having 'full' units, rather than a few extra 'half assed' units

10 x Miners, champ, standard, mus.

Reduce to 8 and lose all the command. Even w/an AoD you really don't need a full command.

15 x Ironbreakers, champ, standard (Ancestor Rune, Rune of Courage), mus.

Just like any other ranked infantry unit in the Dwarf army, I really feel you need about 20, OR a handful less and the RStoicism (I haven't peeped at my Dwarf book for a bit, I'm just assuming this is what the double US rune is called)

Cannon rune of reloading

RReloading isn't really necessary, especially if you keep the ME hanging out w/the WMs. I'd recommend the RForging at all times for a cannon, although at least one or two of your three Runeable WMs could really use the RBurning. All kinds of nasty regenerating, flammable gribblies out there.

I wouldn't pay much attention to Dwarf naysayers...obviously if you're just playing to win there are more appropriate armies out there, but there's nothing keeping Dwarfs from doing well imo. Try using table corners and hilly terrain to your advantage; a refused flank deployment w/a march-blocking AoD, gyro, and miners can cause loads of trouble for your opponents. Maybe try concentrating your firepower on the most dangerous stuff the enemy is fielding rather than trying to get too much done in one shooting phase as well.

If you're suffering in combat, I'd argue it's because you're not playing up Dwarfs' strengths, which is high T, high AS, and high LD...i.e. the reasons you really need to run combat blocks at least 20strong w/a BSB in the vicinity.

Skullking
18-01-2010, 23:41
@ Gromdal - I know the dwarves are not exactly the best army for winning out there now. If I were a bandwagoner I'd be riding the vermin tide of skaven players who have emerged in force as of late. I love the dwarves as an army, and amongst the other players in the area they are a bit of a rarity (probably because they aren't so good anymore), but I play them because I like them.

@ Graymer - Good advice here, similar to what I've heard from people I play with.

Definately Hammerers are considered a good choice, I do have some, and I should dust them off and bring them too the table, I hate to get rid of the iron breakers though (only because I like the models so much really). But they haven't really pulled their weight too much lately, and attract a lot of attention, which usually ends up with them getting killed.

I'm mostly taking an anvil because I have to deal with SO much magic in most of my games, I really need the extra dispel dice to hold my own. If I wasn't going to use the anvil I think I would just switch over to a Dwarf Lord. I will give my Rune lord those spell eater runes, but I've noticed that my anvil never really gets attacked. It's usually in the back, and the only times it's ever died was because I rolled a 1 for striking it, and another 1 for it's mishap result (I wasn't even being greedy going for Ancient power!!). I've notice that you favor both causing and protection against flaming attacks. Perhaps I haven't really encountered many armies which use flaming attacks, or have flamable or regenerative units, but I suppose the rune upgrades aren't that expensive, and would be very helpful if I do encounters these units.

I am going to get rid of one of my units of thunderers, and reduce the quarellers to 10, and give both the shooting squads shields. Hopefully I'll still have enough points to boost the long beards and ironbreakers to 20, and give them some much needed upgrades. I'm probably going to have to trash the gyro copter as well for extra points for the bolt throwers rune up grades and such.

@ lcfr - I will give the thane the RoFury, and as you and Graymer had suggested, increase my unit strengths to 20 all around.

why should I reduce the miners to 8 though? I realize they aren't amazingly effective, but won't they be much less so with out an rank bonus and command? Just curious, havn't had a lot of experience wiht them.

As a whole, I've noticed that in most instances, when I attempt to charge someone, they just flee, and because we're dwarves with pathetic movement, they just get away and I get flanked by some other unit of theirs next turn. Perhaps I should be less aggressive and stay back and shoot them up till they get too close, but I have to wonder how good a strategy that is as well?

I realize that all battlefields are different when playing, but is there a certain way that is better to set up troops? Putting thunderers in front of other troops for example and then letting them get killed off. Piling up in a corner or spreading out across the field?

Thanks for all the help so far everyone!!!:)

koningswulf
19-01-2010, 05:30
You have gotten some very good advice there
but one thing I would keep is the Gyrocopter
and actually get 1 more.

Why? Because it is the only of your units that have 20" charge move.
I havent played dwarfs for a long time but when I did I always used two gyrocopter, yes two and the trick was to use them as charge support for your infantry. If the opponent fleed sure they outdistance your infantry but
hep presto not the gyrocopter that flies straight into them and kill em all.
Its one thing outrun 6" another all together to outrun 20" he, he, he.
I dont know why people never use them like that but only as marchblockers.
Sure they are good at that as well but as support in charge they are amasing and gives the dwarf their much neeed speed.

Even if the opponent now realise it cant flee because of your gyrocopters support and take the charge when you have a gyrocopter and they break you have 1 unit with 3d6 pursuit and a lot bigger chance to catch them pesky cowards running away .
Also if you have a tooled up a big combat unit with Master rune of fear and outnumber them so they autobreak thats even better

Never charge without having a gyrocopter at your side :D
Thats how you catch them rabbits :p


good luck

Gromdal
19-01-2010, 09:00
Take a look at my dwarf list for 2k battles, i play in a power gaming grp. And this army does pretty darn good vs most lists.

I agree what has been said before in this thread, 2 gyros are awesome. Bolt thrs are also insanely underpriced for their power. I often field 8 of them in a 2k battle (yes i need em vs demons and alot of mounted power gaming armies)

To bad gw has made the dwarfs into a defensive boring gunline army, and not cc like in the fluff.

But you gotta make do.

I was like you when i started warhammer before 6th edition ( many years ago ) my fav army was the dwarfs. But their boring way of play has given me alot more experience with my brets (much are more fun to play in my opinion).

But dwarfs always hold that special place with me.

graymer
19-01-2010, 16:06
As Dwarfs, you should never make initial charges. You want to stall the enemy with your units, allowing for you to maximize the amount of time you can shoot them to bits. We are all about countering charges. Set up your CC blocks so they support one another. If they get charged, there should always be another unit that can get in their flank.

This is why most people hate playing Dwarfs. We can't be aggressive and caught out in the open because we'll get flanked and murdered. So we sit in a corner and wait for opponents to come to us and try to chop up our units. Most smart players will take what they can from Dwarfs and go for a Draw. This makes it especially hard for Dwarfs to place high in tournaments.

Much like you, I also really like the IB models, but the Hammerers constantly outperform them. If you are bent taking them, do it with a CC Thane with an Oathstone. A great build is MRoGromril, RoPreservation, RoResistance, RoFurnace, GW. S6 and really tough to kill. Obviously, this would take up the MRoGromril from the BSB, so you could have an opportunity to tinker with some really nice runic banners for the list.

If you're finding that the anvil doesn't get attacked that much, definitely don't take the other protection. The only reason I opt for fire immunity in my runic kits is because often times opponents will take Lore of Metal and try to snipe my characters; the spells are flaming, thus the immunity is a godsend. Flaming attacks on WM also help against VC and Demons, as well as any other armies that utilize Regen.

Definitely keep the Gyrocopter, or swap it with an Organ Gun. I see the benefits of both units, but in my own experiences the Gyro is very fragile. Susceptable to poison as well. You absolutely need one of these choices though to be a challenge for your opponents. I often try to have 2 Rares in every list I take.