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View Full Version : 1st army attempt, 1850 point High Elves.



Red_Crawler
19-01-2010, 06:12
Basically, I just started WHFB (normally play 40k). I'm not entirely decided on what army to play (tempted to say Bretonnia, if only because I want to paint a bunch of knights), but a friend is loaning me a bunch of his old HE army (which I'm going to paint for him while I test it) to goof around with while I decide. I'm not going for a tournament list or anything, just want to build a basic list to play for fun. With that said, here's what I've got atm:

EDIT: Potential updated list posted further below.

Hero Mage 185 Level 2, 2x Dispel Scroll, Silver Wand
Hero Mage 175 Level 2, 2x Dispel Scroll
Core Spearmen x20 225 Command, War Banner
Core Spearmen x20 205 Command
Core Archers 110
Core Archers 110
Special Lion Chariot of Chrace 140
Special Lion Chariot of Chrace 140
Special Swordmasters x10 180 Command
Special Swordmasters x10 180 Command
Rare Repeater Bolt Thrower 100
Rare Repeater Bolt Thrower 100
TOTAL 1850

Red_Crawler
19-01-2010, 07:04
21 views, anyone with any input on this?

koningswulf
19-01-2010, 10:46
yes Ill put some words in for you. I am not the most experinced HE players playing mostly DE myself but I have fought them lots of time.

HE are a very diffuclt army to start with as it is so expensive and fragile but that said they are also a good army if you get the army fine tuned.
Takes a lot of practice tho and style matters a lot on how you are to finetune yours.
Their best advantage is their ASF always attack first even when charged and good wWpSkill and Leadership. Most HE players go either magic heavy or use some balanced army but thats mainly up to your playing style.
They can play sole melee army but thats often requires going lord + dragon to get the right amount of punch.

Normally people take just 2 core either 2 archer or 2 spear depending on style.
Archers if you are to be defensiv and static with lot magic and shooting
and then they get elit infantry to block often Phoenix guard.
Spears if they plan to fight much and want the full CR from the spear units and get the attack punch from the smaller Elit units often swordmaster or White Lion. Spear units are all about getting the full +3 for rank and +1 for outnumber and +1 for standard. Used this way I suggest 25-30 spear men
to assure you get that full +5 CR all time.

Then most players use the full 6 special choices HEcan take where sword masters, phoenix guard, white lions, Dragon princes, Chariot and lion chariots are mostly used in combinations depending on style.

Swordmasters are by far the best offensive infantry unit with 2 str5 A but very often they get shoot to pieces or magical nuked to death since only 5+ac and T3, but if you can get them into combat they are very good.
Special mention here is to use the Lore of Life and see to that you have the spell Howler Wind if you have swordsmaster and use it together.
Saves them a lot from getting shoot to pieces.


Phoenix Guard with 4+Ward and causing fear are by far the best block unit and can take a huge amount of pounding and still be around often used in armies with lot of magic and shooting.

White Lions are some of my own favorites since they have a good Ac against missils 3+ and are stubborn. I tend to make them either immune to fear or cause fear so they cant be autobroken by fear causing units and their stubborn with their str6 A always atack first make them a very hard tough unit to crack then. They are also woodsmen something most people tend to forget but thats a very handy skill since most battlefields have forests.

Dragon Princess are a highly mobile with good +2Ac and 2 str5 A on the charge. They need some support on the attack tho prefarable with chariots working in tandem with them. If they get bogged down and dont break the enemy in first round they are pretty much useless since their lance then doesnt work and they get a plain 2A 3str instead. Therefore I advise most to use them together with chariots on the attack whenever possible.
Warbanner also a good choice as banner for them.

Both chariots are always good but need to be used either in pair or in support of infantry block or cavalry to work good. The lion packs a higher punch and cause fear but are more expensive.

A short note here also to shadow warriors your scouts, most doesnt take them but a scout unit are always good to keep that strategic terrain in your hand rather than your enemies

As for rare most buy 2 bolt throwers and a great eagle.
The bolt to take care of fast cav, fliers and scouts primarly but even monsters.
The great eagle are great for mislead, march hinderence and to mage hunting.

As for your army I suggest you first decide what tactical style you wanna have and then play some games and see its weaknesses and strengths.
With your current modells both swordmaster and lion chariot I would advice
to use 2 spearblocks make em immune to fear as not to autorun and then use them in as anvil to get the full +5 CR where the swordmasters and chariots are the hammers and deliver the coup the grace on the enemy.
Use 2 tactical groups who work in tandem.
Get a great eagle to cause havoc in opponents movement and screen your swordmasters from shooting as much as possible by terrain and units.
Use heavy magic and bolts to take care of opponents main threats heavy cav and mosters. Get 1 mage at least with Lore of life and see that you get the spell Howler Wind
Hope this helped some
good luck

Wyrmnax
19-01-2010, 13:21
Lets see.

Heroes:
You are going medium magic. That is a very big mistake. High magic lists ( IE: Lists with 3 mages at this point level ) will shut down your magic phase completely. Low magic lists will be carrying enough dispel scrolls to deal with most of a high magic list game breaking stuff - so while you will be able to cast spells that go undispelled against them, any spell big enough to mean trouble will get scrolled.

There really are 2 ways to go with magic only - either you go low and only bring a scroll caddie or two, or you go all out in magic. So you should consider either turning up your magic ( bring another lv 2 mage, make at least 2 of those mages spellcasters instead of scroll caddies ), or tunning it down ( Downgrade the mages to lv 1, loose the wand )

Core

HE core is considered overexpensive, and it is rightly so. They are too expensive to what they bring to the table. HE also need to bring less core to the table than any other army, you should use that to your advantage and try to bring only the minimal amount you need. HE strenght is on their special units.

Why 20 spearmen? Units of 5x4? You can usually get more out of a 6x3 or a 6x4 unit.

Special:
Chariots are good.

Swordsmasters dont need the full command. They dont need a banner. They win combat by doing enough damage to win combat, not by static combat res. Also, full command on a 10 men unit is awfully expensive.

And again, you would be better served by making the swordsmasters a 6x2 or a 7x2 unit, instead of 5x2.

Rare
Bolt trowers are quite decent. Perhaps a bit on the expensive side, but they work fairly well.


Overall
You really need to decide if you want to focus on magic or not. Changing for high or low magic will change a lot of your points around.

Your army lacks mobility. Mobility is key to playing HE - you want to choose your fights, deny movement to the enemy, separate him and flank and concentrate on small portions of his army.

You are trying to win a attrition war with HE. HE are very bad at attrition wars, T3 and 5+ saves kills them. You want march blockers and some fast hitting at the very least. And a way to deal with artillery.

hlaine larkin
19-01-2010, 15:06
yeah they are right it isn't too standard high elfy- but i like that.
by being reletively unaware (no offence intended!) of how a nigh elf army works you have made a really nice and fluffy list- i realllly like it! good job

D'Haran
19-01-2010, 15:46
Your mages aren't built right, 4 dispel scrolls are way too many for a HE army at this level of play. You should be taking 1-2 and spread them out between the mages, some fun items you should take insted are jewel of the dusk and the staff that lets you choose magic. Also as said by another player a 3rd mage wouldn't be misplaced if you plan to go magic heavy, giving him the ring of fury or corin are decent choices.

If you go magic heavy you'll probably want the banner of sorcery, but then again you list doesn't have any unit that I'd really trust with it. Normally I'd put it in Pheonix Guard or possibly a block unit of White Lions (also a decent death star unit if properly built), occasionally I might put it in spearmen but I find them too squishy and they do too little wounds even with 3 ranks and ASF (6x3 give 18 attacks, 9 probably hit, 4.5 wound T3, and any kind of armour save will usually drop it down to only 2-3 wounds getting through assuming you're facing a unit with similar stats and abilities as our spearmen).

If you don't go magic heavy you should probably have a general and BSB, make them hard to kill, possibly a ward save as well. Remember you can mount them for a bargain price for a 2+ armour save opposed to giving them expensive magic armour, and they can still sit in infantry units. Although I am fond of my general on foot with a great weapon and a 2+ magic armour save, but either way you really should be maxing out your hero choices at 1850 pts.

You have too many core choices, they're not worth it compaired with HE special choices. Go with either the spearmen or archers, not 1 of both. Archers are alright if you're going heavy magic with full bolt throwers, but I tend towards spearmen since they're cheaper per model and use them as mage bunkers for the first half of the game if I don't take Pheonix Guard. But either way their real utility is giving you rank bonus, so you'll need something hard hitting to get enough kills to win combat (I approve of your chariots for this). Spearmen don't need the commander, not really worth it, just standard and musician, also not worth it with the Sword Masters unless you wanted to give them a magic item (occasionally I'll get 1+ to who goes first roll this way), Sword Masters probably shouldn't have a banner either since it can often turn out to be an easy extra 100pts for your enemy and the should be doing enough wounds to win combat without a standard.

Be careful of your Sword Masters, they tend to be easy targets for magic and shooting. However if properly deployed and protected they do alot of damage. Your only real protection for them is behind terrain or your spearmen, either can work. Personally I'd prefer White Lions for the stubborn and added defense vs shooting.

Eagles are amazing, so are bolt throwers. If you can get both do it, Eagles though weak have been sacrificed countless times to prevent marching/charging/forced charges, and can really save the day by their demise.

All that said most games are 1500, 2000, or 2500 points (3000 for 'ard Boyz). Not just tournament armies, these are what I usually see played, so you should write a 1500 pt, and it wouldn't be hard to get 2000 by adding a lord choice to your current list. Just be careful who you play with it and make sure they're not doing the hard core thing or this army will rarely see a win and I don't want you getting frusterated at a 'loosing' army.

hlaine larkin
19-01-2010, 15:47
we need to stop trying to convert him to every other bloody high elf player :D

he has shown a spark of originality by using core troops and building a fluffy- use that list- its cool as hell, maybe drop a mage and wack a combat hero (commander?) in :D

D'Haran
19-01-2010, 15:54
I suppose most of us are too hard core for our own good, lol. Larkin is right, your list is good for a fun army, though i would add a 3rd hero choice and possibly drop some scrolls unless your primary opponent is a heavy magic user.

hlaine larkin
19-01-2010, 15:55
i agree with too many scrolls though :D

and its not too hard core but regular fantasy players know the standard lists- i was all for standard lists til going to the gt- i got bored of playing the same list 3 times! haha so now i play different lists
like the 3k lizardman list with 140 saurus, an oldblood, a bsb on terradon, some terradons and 40 skinks (with some magic defence)

Wyrmnax
19-01-2010, 16:29
The problem here is that the only way a list can be commented is if it has a specific purpose.

As no specific purpose or restriction was made on the OP list, we assumed that we are commenting on it to be competitive.

And to be competitive, he need to think about 2 things that are missing:

1) Make it either high or low magic, not medium
2) Give it some speed, for flank blocking, side charging and artillery hunting.

hlaine larkin
19-01-2010, 16:30
but a friend is loaning me a bunch of his old HE army (which I'm going to paint for him while I test it) to goof around with while I decide.


its a fun list :D

of course i am not trying to criticise you all warseer has helped me with many things!

Red_Crawler
19-01-2010, 17:28
Following some advice from the posters, I decided to focus on a magic-heavy army, as in 40k I usually play assault-only. I've tried to modify some unit choices/sizes, let me know what you think:

Hero Mage 170 Level 2, 1x Dispel Scroll, Jewel of the Dusk
Hero Mage 185 Level 2, 1x Dispel Scroll, Seerstaff of Saphery
Hero Mage 175 Level 2, Ring of Fury
Core Spearmen x18 177 Musician, Standard
Special Lion Chariot of Chrace 140
Special Lion Chariot of Chrace 140
Special White Lions of Chrace x19 353 Musician, Standard, Banner of Sorcery
Special Swordmasters x11 171 Musician
Special Swordmasters x12 186 Musician
Rare Repeater Bolt Thrower 100
Rare Great Eagle 50
TOTAL 1847


I'm not entirely certain where the best places for my mages are (ATM I have 1 with swordmasters, 1 with the white lions, and the 3rd lingering about behind the spearmen unit), or on dropping the 2nd bolt thrower for an eagle, but it managed to make the points in range of my 1850 playing bracket.

D'Haran
19-01-2010, 20:22
I'm pretty sure you have to have at least 2 core, you only have 1 in this list.

Red_Crawler
19-01-2010, 20:57
I'm pretty sure you have to have at least 2 core, you only have 1 in this list.
Not for high elves. They get less core, more specials.

enyoss
19-01-2010, 21:32
I suppose most of us are too hard core for our own good, lol. Larkin is right, your list is good for a fun army, though i would add a 3rd hero choice and possibly drop some scrolls unless your primary opponent is a heavy magic user.

I second this. The original list was kind of interesting, just a bit too much core I think.

If you wanted to you could still use a version of that list, but tinker with the core to get a fighting hero in there somewhere (the high leadership would be nice as well as the hitting power). For what it's worth, I think a unit of 24-30 spearmen with Warbanner are actually an excellent choice for High Elves, especially when augmented by a combat character.

Oh, and I'd ease off on the scrolls and try and get some of the offensive Arcane toys in there :).