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Smiling Banshee
19-01-2010, 10:58
Just decided to give WFB another go, got myself a high elf army last year but due to various other commitments I didnt really give them or WFB a fair go tbh.

Im thinking of adding to my army and thought Warseer would be the best place to ask advice on what to buy next. My knowledge of High Elves & WFB is very little.

Ok so I have this so far

Alith Anar
High Elf Mage on Dragon
High elf lord/prince on Dragon
Various other mages and lords
16 Archers
16 Spearmen/Sea Guard
8 Silver Helms
12 Dragon Princes
4 Repeater Bolt throwers
2 great Eagles

What would be a good addition to what I already have. And do you think i'd be better off selling one of the Dragons, will i ever use 2 in one army?

The Red Scourge
19-01-2010, 11:25
Don't waste your time here. Play some games instead and proxy some new units :)

Condottiere
19-01-2010, 11:46
That depends on whether you plan to have a 3000 point army or if you want try out both the Dragon Lord and the Dragon Mage at the same time.

RMHaggis
19-01-2010, 11:49
dont proxy units, it looks **** and is not as fun for an opponent.

however paying games is the way foreward it will identify what sort of unit you may need to add.

personally i would say you need to add an elite infantry unit (swordmasters, white lions or phoenix guard) and increse you spearmen unit size, thats pretty mucn all i would say you need for an effective army at 1500-2000 points

Smiling Banshee
19-01-2010, 11:50
Well ive assembled my dragons so that the riders can be interchanged. At my local gaming group 2000pts is the norm.

Smiling Banshee
19-01-2010, 12:03
RMHaggis which of the 3 elite units you mentioned are the best in your opinion.

brendel
19-01-2010, 12:10
Play some games on what you have first, then see if you think you need to add auy units two dragons, 12 princes bolt throwers and eagels after your core you wont have many points left for other units in a 2000pt battle.

rmb43
19-01-2010, 13:47
I'm a big fan of the White Lions, myself. Most high elves are squishy, especially against shooting, with their low toughness and lousy armor saves. Unlike other HE infantry, White Lions have an improved save vs. shooting, plus Str 6 attacks with their ASF axes. Me likey!

Shadow_Steed
19-01-2010, 15:22
Paint everything and save the dragons for later, noone wants to face them anyway:). Perhaps another unit of spearmen would do the job, or swordmasters. Furthermore I strongly recommend Shadow Warriors for three reasons, first they are very cool models, second they are a good unit type(scouts) and third they can accompany your Alith.

Good luck with the army and remember to not think too competitively when making your army!

Baggers
19-01-2010, 15:32
I tend to take two small units of Sword masters 6 or 7 strong (depends on the size of the battle) and a unit of either Phoenix Guard or White Lions depending on who I am playing. I tend to prefer Phoenix Guard as they have a 4+ ward save. Also if your fighting a wraith heavy undead army. Take the 15point amulet of light on a unit champion. It gives the whole unit magical attacks.

WarmbloodedLizard
19-01-2010, 15:40
dont proxy units, it looks **** and is not as fun for an opponent.


ignore that and proxy the hell out of your lists until you more or less know what you wanna field. it sucks to buy and paint something up that you won't be playing with anymore in half a year.

PeG
19-01-2010, 16:26
Proxy is great but agree with your opponent before the game. I have played against WE wardancers as swordmasters, silver helms as chaos knights etc. As long as it is clear what is what and you dont use to many different proxied units in the same game I dont have a problem with it.

Lars Porsenna
19-01-2010, 18:46
I would probably increase the number of archers (I run 2 units of 10 in a 5x2 formation) as well as the number of spearmen (either 20 or -- my personal preference -- 24). Personally, my list consists of 2 archer units, 2 Silver Helm units, and a swordmasters unit. Remember that at 2000pts you only need 2 core units minimum.

Damon.

enyoss
19-01-2010, 20:30
RMHaggis which of the 3 elite units you mentioned are the best in your opinion.

One of the strongest features of the 7th edition HE book is that all three of the elite infantry units are really attractive options. Each one has a different role, but if I had to commit to one over the rest it would be White Lions. Stubborn and striking first at S6 is just great all round. My rundown of these units is:

White Lions: can deal out pain to almost any opponent (even tough and well armoured). Stubborn means they'll hang around a lot of the time, but make them immune to Fear and have the BSB close by for best results. They're also quite resistant to shooting. I use them in units of 12-14.

Phoenix Guard: these guys are super durable, a real tar pit with a high leadership at Ld 9, so they don't necessarily need to be close to the general. Their inbuilt fear-proofing is a real bonus, and you might even auto-break the odd enemy (this mechanic might change in 8th edition though, so be warned). However, due to their relatively mediocre hitting power they need static combat resolution to win... they'll break like anyone else if they start losing. I use them in units of 18.

Swordmasters: all out attack, and that's about it. They're not as effective against well armoured opponents as White Lions, but the shear number of attacks makes up for it. Against infantry they will just be death incarnate. They are super vulnerable to shooting though and usually scare most opponents silly, so expect them to be the number 1 target (you can use this to your advantage though to `screen' your other units who will be left alone... just take a smallish sacrificial unit and let them face the music). Due to their vulnerability to shooting and their reliance on brute force attacks, back ranks are usually a waste of points. Because of this, I find they work well as support units of 7-9 models, although I do sometimes use a unit of 14 if I want to make sure they'll make it to combat as a mainstay unit (only one rank needs to get there!).

I hope that gives you some ideas :).

Ender Shadowkin
19-01-2010, 23:10
enyoss has some good advice there (as usual)

After playeing with the new HE book for a long while now . . .I have found White lions with the Lion std to rarely let me down.

and yes you do need more spears, if you want to run units of spear elves. Personnally my core is almost always seaguard (10-15 strong). They can be a little tricky but I have always found a way to make them useful (sometimes that means catching arrows for swordmasters). And most people don't realize you can go Hand weapon shield with them to get a 4+ armor save, which is typically better than a handful of S3 attacks.

RMHaggis
21-01-2010, 16:04
whats all this 6-7 and 12-14 nonsense 'NEVER' use infantry at less than 20 strong especially weak ones like high elves most will be dead before you get anywhere. and pessonally i go with swordmasters due to the high amount of attacks which can mean lots of kills plus being a big unit means you get lots of other combat res break and kill...

enyoss
21-01-2010, 18:46
whats all this 6-7 and 12-14 nonsense 'NEVER' use infantry at less than 20 strong especially weak ones like high elves most will be dead before you get anywhere.

Speaking of nonsense... ;)

I'll agree with you on the point of Spearmen, and to an extent Phoenix Guard (although I'd say 18 in a unit is sufficient for them). They definitely excel when taken in large units, and I do admit to despair when I see units of 15 spearmen :D. White Lions and Swordmasters, however, are just not designed to run around in huge units.

Take two `equal cost' scenarios with Swordmasters as an example:

1) You have one unit of 21 (frontage of 7), and your opponent kills 7, so you have 14 attacks (7 SMs) when you get into combat and +1 combat resolution for the back rank.

2) You have three units of 7, and your opponent kills 7, so you have 28 attacks (14 SMs) when you get into combat. If these casualties are spread evenly over the three units, which isn't unlikely, you've not even seriously impeded their combat effectiveness (e.g. you'll be getting 10 attacks per unit not 14).

Plus, in the second situation you are able to engage several units, rather than just the one. The second case also gives you far more flexibility in the deployment phase, in contrast to the first case where you place your massive deathstar and hope that your opponent kindly puts the unit you want him to put directly opposite it.

If you seriously think that the first scenario is better than the first then best of luck to you!

@RMHaggis: I don't mean to come across as a nob, especially seeing as I used to run a unit of 26 Swordmasters back in 6th edition (they were cheaper then though!), but I thought that 'NEVER' was just asking for a response :).

Ender Shadowkin
21-01-2010, 18:49
whats all this 6-7 and 12-14 nonsense 'NEVER' use infantry at less than 20 strong especially weak ones like high elves most will be dead before you get anywhere. and pessonally i go with swordmasters due to the high amount of attacks which can mean lots of kills plus being a big unit means you get lots of other combat res break and kill...

You might want to go on over to Ulthuan.net and see how recepetive they are to that advice . . . I've never really seen succesful HE builds like that, but hey if it works for you, have fun with it.

TheSanityAssassin
22-01-2010, 04:54
I've always found 14 to be the ideal number for Swordsmasters. I've tried the 2 units of 7 thing and found that savvy foes would just kill 2 or 3 of each unit, leaving them with insufficient numbers to do enough damage to win a combat decisively. I feel that you need the full frontage of 7 to guarantee* a solid win against most units, and by having 7 ablative wounds you can usually get your full spread into combat.

ChaosVC
22-01-2010, 07:03
well I think everyone here have given you good advise.

But still I will give my I rupia~ because i am bored...

1.) You need foot and mounted characters - get the plastic wizard and mounted/foot bsb

2.) You need at least 15 models for each of the following; White lions, swordmasters and Phoenix guard.

3.) You need some shadow warriors

4.) You need 1 or 2 chariots box, one for lion and one for tirnaoc, or 2 of each if you like.

5.) You maaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy need another box of spearman, here is an idea to model them; you have 16 archers and 16(32)spears man if you get another box of 16.

a) Make 12 archers because you don't need 16.(with 12 spear man legs)
b) Make 20 spearman because 20 is the magic number
c) Now make 16 lothern sea guard (with 16 archers legs)

and Tada, now you have a "unqiue" set of models for all 3 types core, archers, spears and seaguards. Well not exactly unique because i have done that too but whatever~!

6.) You with any extra parts of the chariots and silver helm can try to make a unit of 5 reavers....base on experience, this is optional because they are really not really worth the points. Infact silver helms are more useful then BUT it will never hurt to play with them once in a while.

SOOOOO have fun with your anal~ian High and uptight elves of Ulthuan. Its fun to be arrogant killy and good once in a while.

Condottiere
22-01-2010, 12:26
Every army has, or should have, it's own dynamic in creating successful builds, so sometimes running around with Multiple Small Units suits a particular tactical style better than a phalanx, and the HE appear to have enough Special slots to allow them to do so.

RMHaggis
23-01-2010, 18:04
Hmmm i just cant ee the advantage of small units do you know how easy it is to shoot/magic 7 t3 5+sv models. as far as results i go with 28 spear and 20sm and have never not got a massacre. when against hard opponents (chaos chosen knights for example) you need all the extra combat res you can get you pretty little hands on, would love to prove this practically in a game.