PDA

View Full Version : Beardiest/Cheesiest army ever played. Please add.



scar face
19-01-2010, 16:05
What is the beardiest army you've ever played....

I had to play 3 trygons, a prime and 2 units of 3 rippers.... 750pts exact :P

Please add....

scar.

d6juggernaut
19-01-2010, 16:30
Full Nob+painboyz army led by Ghazskull...

My Crons didn't stand a chance...

Vedar
19-01-2010, 16:33
Dwarfs, EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS A BEARD!

Grax
19-01-2010, 16:38
Chaos Marines: Double lash princes + 9 obliterators + squads of 20 berserkers. It's the beardiest list I've ever played against. The oblits nuke all your vehicles, and the lash princes pull everything else into close combat with the berserkers.

I refuse to play against it again. I don't mind losing, but I want the game to be fun, not horrifyingly cheesy. Even if I made a list specifically to destroy this one, playing against it still wouldn't be any fun.

scar face
19-01-2010, 16:44
Yes, i've had to play against that list.... it is beardy, but requires a bit of finesse to use.... the lash princes....

scar

Thud
19-01-2010, 16:46
Cheesy and beardy are merely terms used to describe certain armies or units by people who have yet to learn how to deal with them.

Eldoriath
19-01-2010, 16:47
Cassius in 40k in 40 min rule-set. Only got 2W so he is allowed AFAIK and with T6 and FnP he is a bitch to kill.

scar face
19-01-2010, 16:53
@thud...

I don't want a description... I'm purely doing this out of curiousity.

@eldoriath...

Urgh, feel no pain AND T6... he must be most of the army, being a special character and all.....

I didn't think special characters were allowed in 40K in 40 mins.

scar.

massey
19-01-2010, 16:55
2nd edition Chaos.

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor (3+ save on 2D6) carrying a reaper autocannon. Power Field (2+ unmodifiable save against shooting). Storm Shield (4+ unmodifiable save). Iron Arm psychic power (doubled T to 10). Prescience psychic power (reroll all failed saves).

We were playing a 2000 pt game and he put down like 5 models. Eventually there was a FAQ that said the Storm Shield was a field save, and you couldn't stack field saves, but it wasn't around when I played him.

After that, everyone took a vortex grenade. Every game.

Irondog
19-01-2010, 17:00
The old 3rd ed. Iron Warriors list was pretty nasty, back when they could roll with 4 Heavies, and they were the only ones able to get 9 Obliterators. The guy had:
- Winged Demon Prince with all the trimmings
- 9 Obliterators
- 2 Defilers
- Vindicator
- Basilisk
- a couple of token Troops choices.

The guy actually modelled his Troops sitting on lawn chairs, because that's about what they did. The rest of the army just blew you away like lint.

borithan
19-01-2010, 17:11
Not sure how beardy it was but I once fielded an almost entirely infiltrated Space Marine army with the previous codex.

Forgotmytea
19-01-2010, 17:16
Worst I've had recently is a tournament-designed Deathwing army. Nearly nothing but 2+ saves, my Necrons might as well have not bothered firing for all the good it did :p

LonelyPath
19-01-2010, 17:16
2 Warbosses, 2 nobz mobs in wagons, 3 units of biker nobs. I didn't stand a chance with my GK, but I did kill off 1 unit of bikers, a warboss and put a dent in a unit of battlewagon nobz.

primarch16
19-01-2010, 17:18
Back when iron warriors had it good, the whole 9 obliterator, double vindicator basalisk + something or other death army. min max las plas squads. My poor guard didnt even stand a chance. Most boring game of my life. Played the current lash spam chaos army and pulled off a draw, reckon I could beat it again if I played it (it was my first game against the new chaos).

Chaplain Ark
19-01-2010, 17:18
2 lords with res orbs and staff of light, 2 monoliths, and 3 squads of around 15 warriors. for a 1250 point list (IIRC that was the points, and mind you, this battle was a long time ago. he may have taken some immortals as well) its was destruction. for every 5 warriors i knocked down, it seemed .5 of them died. i lost all my models (20 marines, 10 assault marines, predator, 5 devastators, and a jump pack chaplian, i may have had more, but this battle was a while ago.) and he lost probably less then 150 points worth of models.

SirSnipes
19-01-2010, 17:19
2 units of 5 daemonettes, 24 bloodcrushers and fateweaver

RampagingRavener
19-01-2010, 17:19
I had to play 3 trygons, a prime and 2 units of 3 rippers....

Considering that this list can only win Objective games if it wipes out every single enemy model on the table, I'd hardly call it "cheesy/beardy" (oh, how I loathe those terms). And it has no shooting with a range longer than 12". Any army with decent mobility should just be able to stay the hell away from the Trygons and force a draw, or maybe even a win if you rush objectives on the final turns.

scar face
19-01-2010, 17:24
The trygons have fleet....

Bunnahabhain
19-01-2010, 17:27
FW Guard, griffons, with the old school infernus shells, and getting first turn.

Hit enemy, watch over 1/2 their army retreat off the board before they get to do anything at all.

I used it once, and house ruled them back to something sane..

aeoglas
19-01-2010, 17:35
Once, my space marine opponent fielded at least 1 SS/TH terminator, a tactical and a command squad in landraiders, along with two vindicators and a baneblade. All at 2000 points.
What was even worse was that my other opponent (we had a three player game, all of them against each other) fielded three leman russes, some artillery, and a horde of valkries.
First turn, brightlance blows up the command landraider. The command squad crawls out of the blast with one wound, just to get fired out by my kunninly pleshed Dark Reapers. Captain down to two wounds.
Krak missile fires at baneblade. Weapon destroyed so I go for (yes, you guessed it) Baneblade cannon.
My friend with the valkries unleashes leman russ demolisher rounds on landraiders. one is immobilized, one weapon destroyed (lascannon) result.
I start laughing. My friend immobilizes my falcon, forcing my ten man banshee squad to get out. I stop laughing.

xerxeshavelock
19-01-2010, 17:52
Considering that this list can only win Objective games if it wipes out every single enemy model on the table, I'd hardly call it "cheesy/beardy" (oh, how I loathe those terms). And it has no shooting with a range longer than 12". Any army with decent mobility should just be able to stay the hell away from the Trygons and force a draw, or maybe even a win if you rush objectives on the final turns.

Not what I call a battle though...

Ozendorph
19-01-2010, 18:04
It was a long time ago so my memory isn't particularly clear, but the worst I ever played against was Space Wolves in 2nd Ed. The entire army was a Rune Priest in Terminator Armor and maybe 10 wolfguard termies with asscan/storm shield/cyclone (this was prior to the config being banned, obviously). The whole concept as I remember it was to rack up a ton of victory points and then teleport off the table before the opponent could make up the difference.

I managed to beat them by starting everything in cover and then pulling pop-up attacks (eldar) to get ahead in VPs. Once he fell behind in points the plan basically unraveled and he had to do a desperation Gate to get across the table and my weedy space elves took him apart in cc.

On a side note, 2nd edition was hilarious.

scar face
19-01-2010, 18:11
Your space elves... took him apart in CC :0

Ozendorph
19-01-2010, 18:29
Your space elves... took him apart in CC :0

Tooled up 2nd Ed Exarches were the hotness ;)

My army was horribly beardy too, and included an Armorcast Falcon that looked as though it had been whittled from a bar of soap. It was a crazy time for everybody.

Cromwell Haarlock-Leth
19-01-2010, 18:51
Neither cheesy nor beardy, but just awful:
Battle opposing a full gaunts army (hormagaunts + termagaunts, nodal mutation) to a full light infantry imperial guard army.
2 armies at 1500 pts each. Almost 300 figs on the table.
Guess who won? From our point of view, chaos. 'cause that was what we saw on the field!

Friedrich von Offenbach
19-01-2010, 19:21
Not sure what you mean by beardiest, but my Imperial Guard army has been converted with green stuff so lots of my soliders have facial hair

Grax
19-01-2010, 20:59
Cheesy and beardy are merely terms used to describe certain armies or units by people who have yet to learn how to deal with them.

So if your opponent uses lash against you on the first half of turn one, before you've even moved a single model, it's your own fault for not knowing how to 'deal' with that? I'd love to hear how you manage to move/shoot/assault before the game even begins.

Here's how the first turn lash-assault it works: in most games there's 24in at most between you and your opponent. He uses a daemon prince to lash (if they pass a LD10 check, which is about 92% of the time) one of your units 2d6 inches closer to his side of the board. He moves a land raider up 12in and disembarks a 12 man berserker unit 2in. With their 6in assault, the berserkers can make it 20in up the board, meaning the Daemon Prince just has to move your unit 4in + however deep you put them into your own deployment zone, and you've been assaulted.

What's your strategy? Stay all the way back? Then it happens on turn 2 instead of turn 1.

Don't get me wrong, this strategy isn't invincible. There's no saying that dragging this one unit into close combat on turn 1-2 will do enough to win them the game, but what annoys me, and makes me consider it 'cheesy' is there's no way to consistently defend against it, besides taking anti-psychic upgrades that most armies don't have access to.

That's what I mean by 'beardy' and 'cheesy'. It's like a magic the gathering infinite damage loop. It's exploiting a rule or ability to gain an advantage that they weren't meant to have, and is impossible to fully defend against.

Captain Frankus
19-01-2010, 22:25
Dwarfs, EVERY SINGLE ONE HAS A BEARD!

http://instantrimshot.com/
:rolleyes:

Bloodriver
19-01-2010, 23:14
In a doubles tournament (2 x 750 pts) I took:
Abaddon
1 squad Berserkers
1 squad Plague Marines
Land Raider

my partner took:
Nightbringer
2 squads Warriors
Monolith

We had a break even day results-wise, but it was great fun!

Max Jet
19-01-2010, 23:27
I had to play 3 trygons, a prime and 2 units of 3 rippers.... 750pts exact :P

Whoever played this army cheated.
The lack of Synapse would result in the Trygons running around, out of control at least half of the time and the rippers would constantly eat themselves, loosing wounds after wounds.

Wolfblade670
19-01-2010, 23:49
Eldrad at 750.

My Guard shot his entire Eldar army to pieces; only Eldrad was left standing. He then proceeded to kill my entire Guard army single handedly.

Gutlord Grom
20-01-2010, 00:04
3rd Edition Blood Angels. Honor Guard, all with power weapons, jump packs and Sanguinary High Priest (created a krak missile vortex). On my other flank, there were Death Company, majority of whom had power weapons.

It was...funtastic ...to play my first games against this army,

vladsimpaler
20-01-2010, 00:10
Cheesy and beardy are merely terms used to describe certain armies or units by people who have yet to learn how to deal with them.

I imagine that you are a top-ranked tournament player? Because the only people that I have met are ones who say things like this.

I suppose of course that you regularly beat Eldar with 3 Falcons in 4th?

You're so good, I should bow down to you.

Griffindale
20-01-2010, 00:21
Whichever army has just beaten me. :D

Thud
20-01-2010, 01:58
So if your opponent uses lash against you on the first half of turn one, before you've even moved a single model, it's your own fault for not knowing how to 'deal' with that? I'd love to hear how you manage to move/shoot/assault before the game even begins.

That's what I mean by 'beardy' and 'cheesy'. It's like a magic the gathering infinite damage loop. It's exploiting a rule or ability to gain an advantage that they weren't meant to have, and is impossible to fully defend against.

I've dropped the two middle paragraphs detailing Lash and whatnot so not to stretch out the post.

For your first question; yes. Yes, it is your own fault for not dealing with that. You could mech up, field a reserves list, use psychic defences. Furthermore, a Lash Prince (or two) can't take apart your entire army on one turn. Now, I'm not saying that Lash isn't good; it is, but it's not something that will, on its own, completely neuter an opposing competitive army.

As for the last part of the part I quoted; I can get behind that defintion, but with regards to units/rules/abilities "[that it is] impossible to fully defend against," I don't believe they exist in 40k.


I imagine that you are a top-ranked tournament player? Because the only people that I have met are ones who say things like this.

No, I am not a top-ranked tournament player. I attend one tournament a year, which is a fairly laid-back and very enjoyable-for-all kind of event. I do, however, play competitively* against other competitive* players and I have long since learned how to deal with Nob Bikers, Lash Princes, Obliterator spam, TH/SS Terminators etc etc. It's not impossible. It's not even hard.

And knock it off with the trolling. No one thinks it's clever.

*By competitive I mean I don't place arbitrary limitations on myself when it comes to army lists or tactics.

Koryphaus
20-01-2010, 02:15
*By competitive I mean I don't place arbitrary limitations on myself when it comes to army lists or tactics.

Why do you have to do that to be competitive? It doesn't matter where a battle takes place on the powerscale.

Thud
20-01-2010, 02:24
Well, if it doesn't matter where a battle takes place on the power scale, then why not at the top? ;)

Arvendragon
20-01-2010, 02:45
I faced 3 Wraithlords in like 750 points...
NOT pretty.

orkz222
20-01-2010, 03:33
nobz bikers led by pain boy & warboss also on bikes, deffcopters... not fun :(

NightLord
20-01-2010, 03:50
So if your opponent uses lash against you on the first half of turn one, before you've even moved a single model, it's your own fault for not knowing how to 'deal' with that? I'd love to hear how you manage to move/shoot/assault before the game even begins.

Here's how the first turn lash-assault it works: in most games there's 24in at most between you and your opponent. He uses a daemon prince to lash (if they pass a LD10 check, which is about 92% of the time) one of your units 2d6 inches closer to his side of the board. He moves a land raider up 12in and disembarks a 12 man berserker unit 2in. With their 6in assault, the berserkers can make it 20in up the board, meaning the Daemon Prince just has to move your unit 4in + however deep you put them into your own deployment zone, and you've been assaulted.

What's your strategy? Stay all the way back? Then it happens on turn 2 instead of turn 1.

Don't get me wrong, this strategy isn't invincible. There's no saying that dragging this one unit into close combat on turn 1-2 will do enough to win them the game, but what annoys me, and makes me consider it 'cheesy' is there's no way to consistently defend against it, besides taking anti-psychic upgrades that most armies don't have access to.

That's what I mean by 'beardy' and 'cheesy'. It's like a magic the gathering infinite damage loop. It's exploiting a rule or ability to gain an advantage that they weren't meant to have, and is impossible to fully defend against.

You could put everything into reserve at the start of the game giving him nothing to use lash on... Then when your units come on you can choose weak points in his lash wall and try and overload a part of his army at a time.

Or you can complain about it being beardy because you haven't figured out a consistent way to beat it yet.

Dach
20-01-2010, 03:53
2vs2 tournament

Opponents list:

CSM: Death Guard

-Prince, wing, mark of nurgle, warptime
-3 DG squad, powerfist, and dual special weapon of each. 2 rhino

Daemons: Nurgle

Epidemius
Another herald with breath
20 plaguebearers
2x 10 plaguebearers
Prince Nurgle, Wing, Breath.

Since we were playing Orks Green tide and SM drop pod army by start of turn 3, their entire army was wounding on 2+ re-rollable, power weapon and 3+ feel no pain.

:wtf::skull:

Motley
20-01-2010, 06:10
The old 3rd ed. Iron Warriors list was pretty nasty, back when they could roll with 4 Heavies, and they were the only ones able to get 9 Obliterators. The guy had:
- Winged Demon Prince with all the trimmings
- 9 Obliterators
- 2 Defilers
- Vindicator
- Basilisk
- a couple of token Troops choices.

The guy actually modelled his Troops sitting on lawn chairs, because that's about what they did. The rest of the army just blew you away like lint.

i lol so loud i think i pop a rib........XD

Tulun
20-01-2010, 06:25
In 500 points in 3rd edition, at least, you could get 3 Wraithlords (1 had to have a Shuriken cannon, though), The Avatar, and min guardian squads.

Most armies would find that unbeatable....

Ianos
20-01-2010, 06:45
An army played by a cheesecrier, cause there's mostly two things i hate: whinning

GodofWarTx
20-01-2010, 08:35
a guy who brought an old Armoured Company list to an early 4th edition tournament. The tournament rules were completely unimagitive and the guy knew it . All he did was hide his models in the corner and fire his battle cannons over and over.

The game i was witness to he wiped out a hapless ork speed freak army to a man by turn 3. When threatened he just turned his tanks so that getting to the rear armor was impossible for any infantry model.

Wasnt the first time i have seen an armored company list completely dominate a tournament before either.

Lord Solar Plexus
20-01-2010, 09:56
I am not entirely sure whether I like the terms beardy and cheesy. I would rather call an army strong, and sometimes that is due to it being new. One such battle sticks in my mind. A friend started Daemons and used Kairos + a lot of Plaguebearers. I fielded my IG (with the 4th ed. codex), which I thought covered all bases and with which I was fairly good. It was his first game of 40k ever, and he just tabled me. All those re-rollable cover or Inv saves plus FNP was simply brutal.

Still, I hesitate to call it beardy, as I was able to develop counters even without resorting to the Inq + mystic combo...

vladsimpaler
21-01-2010, 22:04
No, I am not a top-ranked tournament player. I attend one tournament a year, which is a fairly laid-back and very enjoyable-for-all kind of event. I do, however, play competitively* against other competitive* players and I have long since learned how to deal with Nob Bikers, Lash Princes, Obliterator spam, TH/SS Terminators etc etc. It's not impossible. It's not even hard.

And knock it off with the trolling. No one thinks it's clever.

It's sarcasm, not trolling. :eyebrows:

So what army do you use/play, and what tactics do you use? I'm curious as obviously I am a whiny player who can't "use tactics".

In any case, you are 'used' to the overpowered stuff, but that doesn't mean that it's not overpowered.

There is nothing in 40k that is 'unbeatable' but at the same time, there is stuff that is incredibly powerful and cannot be easily dealt with.

Out of curiousity, did you ever play against the Eldar "Flying Circus" in 4th?

Negafex
21-01-2010, 23:12
space marine librarion attached to 10 termies, 2 tactical squads with plasma cannon, plasma gun, and plasma pistol, 3 devistator squads with 4 plasma cannons and 1 plasma pistol, and a vindicator.

my plague marines were just lined up for his shooting gallery

EsDawg
23-01-2010, 06:49
3rd ed DA SM army 1,000 pts
2 Whirlwinds
6 x 5 man squads of SM's with plasma guns and lascanons
1 Devastator squad w/ x4 plasmacanons
1 Captain w/ Lightning claws, Iron Halo and Terminator Honors.

That was a real peach of an army to play against. He had his bases exceedingly well covered for 1,000 pts. He did horrible things to Nid players since they gravitate towards the extremes of canon fodder or big bugs. Guard players would lose their tanks and proceed to get plastered by blast and ordnance templates. Space Marines of course had to stare down a crap ton of AP 2 weapons and he had enough firepower to kill most Rhino rushes before they reached him. Even though he could be beaten, it was one of those armies that had the easy ability to establish a lead that was hard to overcome.

Though I do remember steam rolling his entire army w/ 1 Striking Scorpion squad equipped w/ Haywire grenades . . . Ahhh bless 3rd ed Sweeping Advance / Consolidation rules.

WinglessVT2
23-01-2010, 07:10
All-infiltrating 3rd edition chaos marines, with demonprince that fleets and moves like cavalry.

Units with 5+ thousand son chosen terminators, each with 3+ minions each.

Horde word bearers. Their demons destroyed my demonhunters.

Ultramega khorne demonprince of two million strength 8 power weapon attacks, at initiative 6. He destroyed all my gray knight terminators.

Ironwarriors.

Demonprince with half a million strength 7 attacks, all ignoring both armor and invulnerable saves.

Ninja tau when it was actually a functional setup.

3rd edition blood angels.

Dark eldar under 4th edition, against capable opponents. Losing your entire army to continuous combat with incubi isn't that entertaining.

Dark eldar strength 8, AP2 builds of fast, skimmer death.

Siren keepers of secrets, and siren demonprince.

Sisters of battle foot hordes with magical AP1 bolters of sacred item that makes them always work at least once a game, in editions of the game when cover and invulnerable saves were little more than legends, and transports equaled a faster death.

Triple falcons in 3rd and 4th edition. It only got worse when the wave serpent was given an actual model.

Craftworld eldar. Any list.

WinglessVT2
23-01-2010, 07:46
Did I win this thread?

Deetwo
23-01-2010, 08:01
No.. :D
Many things on that list were broken, but there's also quite a bit of things that are mediocre at best.


Craftworld eldar. Any list.

You really think Iyanden was "cheesy" or "beardy"? :wtf:

The "cheesiest" army ever was posted by Irondog on page 1 :)

Hellgore
23-01-2010, 08:35
I think there were a lot of army list in 3rd and 4th that were broken. Iron Warriors, Blood Angels, etc. But "beardy" or "cheesy" are imho the wrong words for that. The rules allowed it, that was the problem.

But with the coming of 5th and the new Codices I think we're on a good way getting finally a balanced setting. It's just some really old Codices that need an overhaul, after that I'd call it finished - even if this would hurt GW marketing strategy ;)

So I join those here saying that there are no real "cheesy" or "beardy" lists anymore. I used to think otherwise but finally took on the challenge of building armies of my own that are meant to take on every possible opponent. That means meching up, some psychic defense and for the most part: a better strategy for the player himself.

Maybe you should talk with your opponent before the game starts if you want to have a fluff game or a battle with competitive armies. Then you don't get into the situation of facing a competitive built against your fluffy battleforce.

It's not true that competitiveness =/= fun, if you accept that you can learn every game and use every game to improve your own skills.

I think it's more fun to have a pitched and narrow fight needing my full tactical skills. I don't need to blame my opponent for his "unbeatable" list because I didn't find the fitting strategy against it.
And finally, I don't think 750 or 1000 pts make for good games in 40k. I see this system at 1750 to 2000 pts to work well as it is much about unit synergy in your army. Powerbuilts tend to dominate low pts-levels imo.

The Red Scourge
23-01-2010, 09:08
Rogue Trader Realms of Chaos nurgle space marines.

A few rolls had transformed my little green men into S10 T6 combat monsters of über nastiness with magic blades causing instant kills and denying armor saves. Too bad they had reduced their move to 1" because of their legs turning into slugs - but thats where the jump packs came in :evilgrin:

Unite All Action
23-01-2010, 11:53
Dred bash 750

So 9 kans 2 Big meks KFF's


HQ: Big Mek Kustom Force Field; Stikkbombs; Mek's Tools
HQ: Big Mek Kustom Force Field; Stikkbombs; Mek's Tools

Troops: Deff Dread Dreadnought CCW (x2); Big Shoota (x2)
Troops: Deff Dread Dreadnought CCW (x2); Big Shoota (x2)

3 Killer Kans Grotzooka (x3)
3 Killer Kans Grotzooka (x3)
3 Killer Kans Grotzooka (x3)
Total Roster Cost: 745


doubles tournament X2 1500

18 killer Kans 4 Deff Dread 4 Big Mek Kustom Force Field

I would like to see someone trying to beat that

Deetwo
23-01-2010, 13:29
I would like to see someone trying to beat that

A list that cannot realistically win 2/3 of it's games, because it can never hold an objective?

Yeah....
:rolleyes:

Giganthrax
23-01-2010, 15:37
As pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no such thing as a cheesy/beardy list. Calling a list "cheesy" or "beardy" or "waac" or w/e is, in my opinion, just a way some people have of making themselves feel better when they lose.

There are lots of guys around I know who lose "because they had crappy dice", "because they were tired", "because the other guy cheated", "because opponent played a cheesy/beardy list", "because the opponent had very lucky dice," "because their army is underpowered and needs a new codex" etc.

You NEVER hear these people admit that they lost because they were outplayed. It's always some other reason, always some alternative way they have of proving that them losing wasn't their fault. This especially happens with lists, where some players feel they're somehow "honorable" if they play fluffy/inefficient lists, while an opponent who just focuses on making the best list he can with his codex and available models is a "WAAC bastard who doesn't care for fun or fluff".

I myself has seen this the most with th/ss terminators. People whine so much about them, IRL and on teh internetz, and yet I myself have never felt they were anything particularly hard to deal with. I played quite a bit against vulkan th/ss and have wiped out that unit countless times without many (or any) loss on my side. Many of these guys whose th/ss termies I wiped out without any conceivable losses still roll their eyes saying that th/ss termies are "cheesy", even after I myself proved them that they were perfectly neuterable. It's quite incredible, really. :)

King Thurgun
23-01-2010, 15:53
You really think Iyanden was "cheesy" or "beardy"? :wtf:

The "cheesiest" army ever was posted by Irondog on page 1 :)


Oh do not underestimate the craftworld lists. Cheesiest I ever played was an Alaitoc list: 3 squads of pathfinders, 2 squads of rangers, 3 wraithlords, a farseer and an avatar. Thats right... Wraithlords in a sniper army. It was actually cited as an example for the lowest ranking comp score army at my local tournaments :D

The Alaitoc had this thing called a ranger disruption table, whereby they got to shoot at your units, or pin them, or make them come in reserve or whatever was rolled on the table, before the game began. I saw him win some games before the game actually started.

Luckily for me my entire army was mechanized, so sniper rifles didn't do a thing!

massey
23-01-2010, 17:34
The "cheesiest" army ever was posted by Irondog on page 1 :)

Nah, I think mine was cheesiest. :)

Chaos Lord has Terminator Armor, Power Field, Storm Shield, Iron Arm, and Prescience.

So if you shoot him, he's got Iron Arm, which doubles his T to 10. So only S7 or better weapons can hurt him. He's got Terminator Armor, so you get a 3+ save on 2D6. He's got a Power Field, so that's a 2+ invulnerable against shooting. He's got another 4+ invulnerable from the Storm Shield. Then he's got Prescience, so he can reroll every single save.

So a successful wound has only a very slim chance of getting through. 1/6 (power field) x 1/6 (power field reroll) x 1/2 (storm shield) x 1/2 (storm shield reroll) = 1 wound out of 144 will get through, before you get your rerolled modified Terminator save. He just walked across the field blowing people to bits with his autocannon.

vladsimpaler
23-01-2010, 17:51
As pointed out earlier in this thread, there is no such thing as a cheesy/beardy list. Calling a list "cheesy" or "beardy" or "waac" or w/e is, in my opinion, just a way some people have of making themselves feel better when they lose.

There are lots of guys around I know who lose "because they had crappy dice", "because they were tired", "because the other guy cheated", "because opponent played a cheesy/beardy list", "because the opponent had very lucky dice," "because their army is underpowered and needs a new codex" etc.

You NEVER hear these people admit that they lost because they were outplayed. It's always some other reason, always some alternative way they have of proving that them losing wasn't their fault. This especially happens with lists, where some players feel they're somehow "honorable" if they play fluffy/inefficient lists, while an opponent who just focuses on making the best list he can with his codex and available models is a "WAAC bastard who doesn't care for fun or fluff".

I myself has seen this the most with th/ss terminators. People whine so much about them, IRL and on teh internetz, and yet I myself have never felt they were anything particularly hard to deal with. I played quite a bit against vulkan th/ss and have wiped out that unit countless times without many (or any) loss on my side. Many of these guys whose th/ss termies I wiped out without any conceivable losses still roll their eyes saying that th/ss termies are "cheesy", even after I myself proved them that they were perfectly neuterable. It's quite incredible, really. :)

Go play against the Eldar Flying Circus army, circa 4th edition, with only the codices available at the time.

Go play one of the Siren Prince lists from the 3.5 codex using only the available codices at the time.

Come back and say that again with a straight face.

massey
23-01-2010, 18:03
Go play against the Eldar Flying Circus army, circa 4th edition, with only the codices available at the time.

Go play one of the Siren Prince lists from the 3.5 codex using only the available codices at the time.

Come back and say that again with a straight face.

You know, a lot of us did play against those armies at the time. I don't ever remember Black Templar players complaining about Siren Princes. And the Flying Circus is easy enough to beat once you understand how to minimize targets and bring supporting fire. Flamers in rhinos work very well against Harlequins.

mattschuur
23-01-2010, 18:31
There is only 1 army build that I ever thought was OTT (although i do believe there are very strong builds). That list was the chaos third edition daemon bomb. 2 Chaos lt's or Lords with daemon armor, immune to instant death, icon, on a bike with 2 5 man marine squads and the rest were bloodletters with their 3+ armor saves and being able to move and assault the turn they arrived, which was usually turn 2 with the whole marked summoning rules.

Even if you popped one of the chaos Lords/LT's the other was right in your face turn 1 after turboboosting, making 2+ save invulnerable. Then it was bring on the 40 bloodletters to wipe out whole armies due to the consolidation rules. The only time I ever beat this army was with Orks, using a Gretchin screen, not allowing Bloodletters to consolidate. still, 100's dead before winning.

matt Schuur

Thud
23-01-2010, 18:57
So what army do you use/play, and what tactics do you use?

Eldar mech, Iyanden and Tau.

I can't be bothered to write down a long dissertation on my tactics, but if you're really interested; keep an eye on the Eldar Tactica thread in the near future.


In any case, you are 'used' to the overpowered stuff, but that doesn't mean that it's not overpowered.

Yes, it does.

The local top-level Ork player has even stopped bringing Nob Bikers because once everyone got over their initial "OMFGCHEEZE!!1" phase, they figured out how to deal with them and they became a lot less impressive.


There is nothing in 40k that is 'unbeatable' but at the same time, there is stuff that is incredibly powerful and cannot be easily dealt with.

I disagree. There are, of course, units that are harder than others. Chaos Spawn are horrible, Daemon Princes are not. This does not make Daemon Princes cheesy or overpowered. Also, "easily dealt with" is a relative term and has a lot more to do with the players in question than it does the power level of the unit.


Out of curiousity, did you ever play against the Eldar "Flying Circus" in 4th?

Yes, I did.

Also, please note my clever use of the present tense in the sentence "there are no cheesy or overpowered units in 40k."


I would like to see someone trying to beat that

Eldar or IG mech can't possibly lose against that army.

Axeman1n
23-01-2010, 19:07
My brother maintains that his tau is unbeatable by the current Eldar codex.

Gimp
23-01-2010, 19:58
2 lists by the same guy in fact

Chaos

2 Lash Princes
9 Olbitrators
20 Plague Marines in Rhinos

Ork

2 Warbosses on Bikes

20 Nob Bikers with Pain Boys

:/

Gaargod
23-01-2010, 20:01
Really? Really really? Tau have a lot of issues atm, and Eldar should be able to deal with them.


On cheese, what you have to understand is this: Units have different levels of usefulness, meaning their individual and potential grouping abilities are better or worse. A chaos spawn for example, is fairly damm useless. Maybe ablative armour, but that kills up killpoints.

Some options are very good. Plague Marines for example definitely have their counters (anything S7 AP2 or S8 AP3 or better is death to them, especially blast). However, the are a very good unit, which is probably underpriced for what it can do. This is what people usually refer to as cheesy - either it can be underpriced or have an odd collection of rules which make it a nightmare to deal with, which should a completely unrealistic price.
i.e. Siren Princes in 3.5 chaos - those things were death machines, happily capable of wading through entire armies unless you were lucky enough to have the counters. Even then, they were crazy good.
The important point however, is this: there is no such thing as an unbeatable unit. Nob bikerz are irritating as hell, but they do have their counters (point a unit of tyranid shrikes with dual boneswords at them and watch them run in terror). However, units can be underpriced/overpowered, and using lots of those sorts of units often makes for a very competitive list. This is the nature of list building.
If you go to a tournament, regardless of whether you personally decide to take a fluffy and uncompetitive army, you can't complain if your opponent takes a WAAC list. At friendly games, simply ask your opponent to stop doing it. If he doesn't, explain to him why you would appreciate him doing it. If they still don't, either take a horrendous list and wipe the floor with him, or don't play him.


Incidentally, before anyone asks: I know how to play competitively, and have a couple of WAAC army lists ready whenever. That doesn't mean i use them. I went to an uncomped tourny in the summer, and took a list where i deliberately set myself limits, and maxed out the list within them - i came 2nd, and would have come first but for a few oddities (weird victory ruleset and a succession of VERY odd rolls in the 2nd game - all fairness, i lost to the guy who came 1st and he was very good, but it was still odd as hell). It was actually for fantasy and i fully expected people to turn up with daemon slaanesh leadership bombs, but i decided not to go all out.
I even help people write their lists a lot, usually from a competitive angle, either on here or face to face. Sometimes, for a change, we even do a non-maxed out battle :D - but we all know what level we're playing at.






On actual cheesy armies:
4th ed Nidzilla/stealershock was insane. All the many, many fexes could claim objectives. Combine that with easier cover and consolidation into combat... armies quite often just auto lost about turn 3 (even if it actually took a few turns more), as the stealers bounced from combat to combat and the big stuff blew up anything in sight. A good IG player designed a large army specifically against it and set up to minimise the tactics, but still tabled by turn 5 without issues.