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View Full Version : stone thrower vs. chariot w/character



Da Crusha
20-01-2010, 00:48
if a stone thrower lands on a chariot that has a character in it, is the hit randomized? should every one get hit? how would this work?

Nurgling Chieftain
20-01-2010, 00:54
This comes up a lot.

Okay, there's two things to think about.

First off, if the central hole is over the chariot, then a single double-strength hit is taken (no roll for partial on this!). This hit is randomized as normal.

Second, any other parts of the chariot are subject to "splash". In most cases the template won't cover the whole model, so the part not hit by the central hole (or both parts if the hole wasn't over the chariot) roll for partial. If the template covers the whole model (possible for mortars and other large templates) then each part is automatically hit (still roll for which part is hit by the central hole if applicable).

Note that this procedure applies to virtually any template hits on any multi-part separately-woundable models. Clipping a stegadon can result in 6 rolls for partials!

decker_cky
20-01-2010, 17:51
Note that this procedure applies to virtually any template hits on any multi-part separately-woundable models. Clipping a stegadon can result in 6 rolls for partials!

Or if against skaven....clipping the stegadon hits all parts. :evilgrin:

Nurgling Chieftain
20-01-2010, 18:28
Assuming that change eventually gets doled out through the system like BSB's ability to take equipment as normal, I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, the same change in 40k does result in substantially faster resolution of blasts and templates. On the other hand, the last thing WFB needed was another kick in the teeth to ranked up infantry units.

outbreak
21-01-2010, 01:51
I agree after 10 or so games with my new skaven the templates auto hitting are awesome but if it goes for the whole of fantasy it's made it abit too easy to take out whole units. I was fine with rolling for partials. IMO they should have had it as a special rule only for certain types of weapons (like flame weapons or something that is going to hurt even if only alitte bit gets you)

Necromancy Black
21-01-2010, 07:34
If 8th edition does come out this year, and they do get rid of partials on templates, my salamanders are going to even more upsets then they already do :D

EldarWonderland
21-01-2010, 08:19
As a TK player with only one Screaming Skull Catapult I think I'd better start saving up for another one.

T10
21-01-2010, 08:30
If 8th edition does come out this year, and they do get rid of partials on templates, my salamanders are going to even more upsets then they already do :D

If this holds true it is safe to expect that ranked regiment will see a significant drop in popularity...

Milgram
21-01-2010, 09:25
everything is better than a 50%-rule. you know the discussion today: is the model 100% under the template/is the model under the template at all. now imagine, if the rule would have you to decide whether the model is more or less than 50% under the template...

warlord hack'a
21-01-2010, 11:43
perhaps they will also decrease the template sizes.. That would make sense and make a labor intensive situation slightly less so

theunwantedbeing
21-01-2010, 12:05
Considering that most people tend to grant less partials than actual hits(despite that almost never being how it happens), I can't imagine why in 8th they wont follow the lead of the skaven book and make all template hit what they touch.

eg.
Stone thrower hits dead centre on a unit (exactly like in diagram 93.1 in the rulebook).
Yeah that's 8 hits and 4 partials.

And I die a little inside.

Milgram
21-01-2010, 17:05
And I die a little inside.

yeah, it is handled very poorly.

warhammer:
5% moving units
5% calculating and rolling dice
5% debating template hits
15% debating rules
70% waiting for your opponent

jrodrag
21-01-2010, 22:55
I would have much prefered them to say the person under the hole is always hit and only one person is hit by it. Everyone else even a little bit touched is hit on a 4+. This power level would have made much more sense for the game.

As far as determing partials and such with models and distance distorting your view, the modular movement trays that GW came out with have another wonderful use. If you just take one of the plates with the 20mm and 25 mm scoring lines on it you have a template that you can lay the blast marker on. Just agree with your opponent where the center hole lands and place it right on top of the appropriate side. Works for everything except skirmishers. It has seriously cut down the amount of arguments at my local store.

Da Crusha
22-01-2010, 00:55
so skaven and possible 8th ed changes aside, does everyone agree with how nurgling chieftain resolves hitting a chariot with a character, with a stone thrower? I find it tought to agree with because when a character is riding a chariot they are considered one model aren't they?

Urgat
22-01-2010, 02:52
If 8th edition does come out this year, and they do get rid of partials on templates, my salamanders are going to even more upsets then they already do :D

The only thing I'm wondering is, why would partials be dropped in 8th ed just because they're dropped in the skaven book, or, more accurately, why would they put that special rule in the skaven book if it's going to be included in the next BRB anyway? To my knowledge, GW has NEVER done that, including a rule in both an armybook and the BRB. It's gotten that stupid that you won't find the additionnal dispel dice rule for dwarfs in the dwarf army book...
I'm quite doubtful, to be honest.

Nurgling Chieftain
22-01-2010, 05:37
so skaven and possible 8th ed changes aside, does everyone agree with how nurgling chieftain resolves hitting a chariot with a character, with a stone thrower?Of course not. Open your rulebook to page 61, left column, third paragraph. That section addresses monsters, but the procedure is the same for chariots. It is exactly what I described.


I find it tought to agree with because when a character is riding a chariot they are considered one model aren't they?While they are physically represented by one model while both are alive, that's more of a technicality than anything that works in the rules (as opposed to the chariot itself, which despite having several parts really is treated as a single model in most respects). For our purposes, they have separate wounds, and are hit separately, but targeted based on the same base; that leads directly to all of the relevant conclusions.

Da Crusha
22-01-2010, 22:42
[QUOTE=Nurgling Chieftain;4323418]Of course not. Open your rulebook to page 61, left column, third paragraph. That section addresses monsters, but the procedure is the same for chariots. It is exactly what I described.
QUOTE]

aww, this is what I was looking for. on the next page it further supports that this is the way it would be resolved. thanks a lot.

decker_cky
22-01-2010, 22:46
The only thing I'm wondering is, why would partials be dropped in 8th ed just because they're dropped in the skaven book, or, more accurately, why would they put that special rule in the skaven book if it's going to be included in the next BRB anyway? To my knowledge, GW has NEVER done that, including a rule in both an armybook and the BRB. It's gotten that stupid that you won't find the additionnal dispel dice rule for dwarfs in the dwarf army book...
I'm quite doubtful, to be honest.

Skaven don't have a 'no partials' rule in their book. They don't use any basic war machines, so the rules are all written in, and in the explanations the all say "any models touched are hit".

Synnister
31-01-2010, 16:42
hey guys was looking for some clarification on a similiar question about stone throwers. If the center hole lands inbetween 4 models how many models are hit with double strength hit?

Thanks

Milgram
31-01-2010, 18:00
first: it is not the hole that is the center, it is the center of the hole that is the center. this makes the situation a lot less probable.

second: if it is not clear, which model is under the center of the template (and if it does matter), then you ramdomise between the models that are possible targets.

Synnister
31-01-2010, 18:38
so it would be just 1 guy not 4 guys?

Atrahasis
31-01-2010, 18:59
Skaven don't have a 'no partials' rule in their book. They don't use any basic war machines, so the rules are all written in, and in the explanations the all say "any models touched are hit".

The basic rules for templates are that partially covered models are hit on a 4+

The Skaven book uses the word "touched", but there's nothing explicitly overriding the basic template rules.

It's in the FAQ submission.

Gazak Blacktoof
31-01-2010, 20:51
It's in the FAQ submission.

That's a bit unnecessary surely?

Shouldn't space be saved in the FAQ for rules that are unclear?

Nurgling Chieftain
01-02-2010, 07:19
so it would be just 1 guy not 4 guys?Yeah, the central hole effect only ever hits a single target.