PDA

View Full Version : Going to Start Fantasy for the First Time



Lamont Cranston
20-01-2010, 04:47
I am going to start WHFB for the first time when I get my bonus at the end of the month and am trying to decide on the army that I want. I have narrowed it down to a Hochland Empire Army, a Vampire Counts Army or an Orge Kingdoms Army.

I really like the feel and colour scheme of the Hochland Empire Army, plus I like the models and the Ottoman Empire / Renaissance Italy feel.

Vampire counts have going for them that my favorite movie types are Zombie and Vampire, plus thery're models are good and they are apparently good in the game as well. However I am alittle worried about the number of models that you need for this army.

Third is the Ogre Kingdoms, I hear that they are really bad in the game because they're book is too out dated. However I do like some of their models and the fact that you do't need that many, coupled with I can get them cheap on eBay and what not makes them a good contender. And how can you resist the Pirate and Ninja Ogres (Only thing better would be a Samurai).

AlmightyNocturnus
20-01-2010, 05:00
Ogre Kingdoms all the way. Yes, they`re weak NOW, but that will just make you a better general (once you master OK, all other armies are easy). And when their new Armies Vook comes out, they be better and you`ll really be able to stomp a mudhole in people. Plus, Ogres are easy to paint and have a low model count (if you don`t go overboard with Gnoblars). Plus, everybody and their kid brother plays Empire and VC, but Ogre Kingdoms have a bit of an "ooohh-ahhhhh!" rareness to them.

Almighty Nocturnus

EldarBishop
20-01-2010, 05:03
Well, Empire in most builds is a fair number of models as well... prob more then VC.

I'd suggest sticking to one of those two. OK are dated, whereas VC are recent, and Empire is relatively recent and generally well supported.

Depemds on your playstyle, which one would be a better fit.

ChaosVC
20-01-2010, 06:52
Between empire and Vc, well if you have been in this forum long enuff, you will know that VC seems to be the "stronger". But really, it has also better models from grave guards, corspe cart to kick ass Blood knights. But I would say that in the long term, empire would be a more fun army to play with because you can do both shooty or meele armies and most importantly a balance of both, you also get to play bait and flee tactics as such. For VC, there is mostly moving forward and almost no shooting phase to play around. I hope this helps.

Tokugawa100
20-01-2010, 07:17
Im gonna make it difficult just for the heck of it:D:evilgrin:;)

They're all great choices.
And I will go through my own personal pros and cons of each to perhaps help you in your choice.

Hochland Empire:
Pros: Its Empire, the amount of plastic kits and customisation alone is enough to make you drool with pleasure and creativity.
There is just something fun about playing as the average human against a world of dragons and monsters where you are soft and they are big and scary.
Cons: If you make this a fluffy army where Hochland is mainly famous for its riflemen and hunters you will probably be narrowing your choices. With my own small army that I had I wanted to keep it fluffy....

So I themed it as an army of Nuln because I love cannons and tanks and if I put anything which isnt overly fluffy in it I paint them in different colours to distinguish them as hired troops from a different state.
For example Hochland is green and red so if you were to add say a tank you could paint it as a Nuln Tank hired from Nuln's factories for your cause.
So really my con is nill:D

Vampires:

Pros: Models are awesome, lots of cool zombies, skeletons and ghoulies.
Able to make some really cool themes like ancient civilisation, time ravaged army or fresh from the grave.

Cons: No plastic vampires, I personally hate that their is no kit for them.
Some people, mainly the stupid, bad sports will instantly assume you are a power gamer.
Not a great deal of character, I mean its just a wave of skeletons and shambling dead.

Ogres:

Pros: My personal favorite army book for the fluff, its fantastic.
Lots of character, feels like big, grumpy, loud mouthed orcs and goblins but the opposite in terms of numbers.
Not many models means less expensive.
The Butcher models are great and Gut Magic is fun to use.

Cons: Models are a bit dated, new book probably due, alot of metal.


Hope that helped at all.

Lordsaradain
20-01-2010, 08:00
Go for empire.

They have the best model range, all in plastic(great for converting, to give your army a personal touch)!

Condottiere
20-01-2010, 08:07
I think you're considering the aesthetic at the moment, but why don't you try borrowing some models and proxying these three armies, to see if their playstyle suits you? I'm guessing you like the more exotic feel of a monster army.

Galatan
20-01-2010, 12:07
I've played both vampire counts and empire and I must say both are very fun.

Empire is capable for all plastic, which for most people is a big bonus (I still prefer metal for my characters because I like the weight in my hands when painting). The army play style is a typical jack of all trades. Shooting ability is great, infantry with the detach system makes then capable against most army's if used well and the hero and lord choices, while not the best, are really priced well points wise (well except the engineer of course). Note magic heavy empire is generic at best. It ain't great, but it ain't horrible either. Generally a good empire army consists of a good block of infantry with detach, arti, good magic defence with a little offence (mostly bound spells) and of course the empire pistoliers and knights. Pistoliers are awesome and vanilla knights are also pretty good for their points.

Vampire counts (my main army) are generally totally different than empire. Most people will scream cheese at the mere sight, but those people often don't score high in the sportsmanship scores in my experience. VC are expensive to start up, mainly because they are the only army you need more models then you have in your army thanks the the Invocation, but once you go over the 1000 pts limit you will take the really expensive special and rare choices which in the end can be pretty cheap if you go to the 2200. Vampire lords are something you tend to invest in (my lord is often round the 400 pts). This combined the a varghulf and something like black knights or wraiths tend to add up round the 800 points in no time.
Game wise VC focus a lot on magic, because that is the thing that keeps the army going. Smart players against VC will always have an item that will shut of the magic fase (like lizardmen and HE), if used at the right moment it could ruin the game for you (like the turn after they have charged in which you can't replace your casaulties). Your vampires is the main thing that keeps the army ticking. It makes sure you can march, your general prevents the army from crumbling, they are the most reliable casters you've got and also the best fighters in the army. A vampire lord can be a real beast in combat if he wants to and still be a good caster. So making sure they are safe and at the same time positioned well is really important. Basically the army grinds down the enemy and depends on the real hard hitting units on the flanks (wraiths, black and blood knights, flanking vamps). The army is: hold, hold, break the enemy with fear. A different play style compared to most army's, which is why they can be so tricky sometimes for people. You really need to play dirty against VC, because a head on attack slows you down too much (even with combat res you will have a hard time wiping out a 20 man skellie unit in 1 go) and that's when the hard hitters get you.

Also, I don't know how much of a painter you are, but a high quality looking empire army takes loads of time to paint thanks to the amount of models. VC are real easy to paint with foundation wash and drybrush. Both army's are really full of flavour and style.

EDIT: corrected a few mistakes

Gammalfarmor
20-01-2010, 16:17
I collect Empire armies for 3 simply reasons.
Faith, Steel and Gunpowder.

Tolinwiz
20-01-2010, 16:49
Easiest way to make these decisions is to write down all 3 armies on separate pieces of paper and put them into a hat. Pick one out - if you instantly feel like you wish you had picked one of the other two armies left then go with the one you instantly wish you had picked!

Easy game ;)

edit: Voted Ogres, just because I find that people have far more fun playing my Tomb Kings and Ogres then the 100th VC or Empire army they've faced. This isn't a slight to VC or Empire, just, there are a lot of those two armies around ;).

UberBeast
20-01-2010, 17:00
Empire is a great starter army mainly because you have so much fluff and supporting info for it. Hochland is fun for lots of long rifles!

bigcheese76
21-01-2010, 00:32
Vampire counts are a good choice for a more experienced fantasy player in my opinion although if you can use them well, you will use them to devastating effect (as my poor Dwarves found out the other day).
If your new to fantasy I would suggest Empire of the three as they are a fairly easy army to play sometimes and they look great if painted up well in big units of about 20.
If it was my money though of the three choices I would invest in some Ogres. Mainly because of the low models count and the general brutishness of the army.

Shazarn
21-01-2010, 06:31
I find counts to be a bit soulless these days (excuse the bad pun). They were interesting and diverse in the old book where a vampire was of a certain bloodline and your list was built around that. Now its just your standard tooled up lord who is no different from others in terms of personality and play style. Sure, tis great that they've opened the list up from being bloodline specific but theres a difference between open and what ever the hell you want.

These days, of the three, I'd take Ogres. Just because of the pure "Holy &%^&% that was awesome moments the army can generate" Thats not to say the others don't their share of good and bad, but nothing compared to a scrap launcher or a unit of leadbelchers of the three

lordmoon
21-01-2010, 06:46
Poofy hats. Empire wins

Condottiere
21-01-2010, 07:32
For hats, Chaos Dwarves win.

El'Flashman
21-01-2010, 07:58
... Sure, tis great that they've opened the list up from being bloodline specific but theres a difference between open and what ever the hell you want....

What's the difference?

Shazarn
22-01-2010, 00:07
What's the difference?

Glad you asked as It gave me a reason to be motivated to find my old book :)

In my opinion, opening up the book would be, say, allowing a vampire to either take 2 bloodlines, or have one and take other's powers a representation of the accidental fusing of ancient magic. Doing Whatever the hell you want would be allowing any vampire to take any power from any bloodline

To give a representation from the new book, doing whatever the hell you want is the current system. Opening up the book would mean that you could take one or two archetypes, but at a cost, or the current system but each archetype has a passive negative to discourage complete universal mixing. Having a red fury, flying vampire that can summon wolves really well would be akin to being a Blood Knight, Von Carstein and Stregoi vampire all at once under the old rules.

Again, this is just my oppinon on the matter.

Ontopic OGRES RULE!

Dexter099
22-01-2010, 04:18
Ogre Kingdoms can smash most armies if used correctly, but if you split them up then you're just asking for it. That's why people seem to think they're weak, though in fact, they are not.

Lord Dan
22-01-2010, 04:28
So what I heard was:

Generic army
Generic army
Hochland Empire

If you have a specific theme for an army picked out, then you already have your answer.

Shazarn
22-01-2010, 05:37
^^ Lord Dan Has it

black_numenorean
22-01-2010, 06:17
Empire - sounds like you will enjoy painting and playing with them the most. You can get any army cheap at chaosmailorder.com (no tax free shipping 20% off) and some other british sites if you arent from the US.

eurys
22-01-2010, 13:32
Wait.....for.....Tomb Kings.... to...rise .....

Shazarn
22-01-2010, 13:57
Ahhhh zombie! Kill it, kill it!

Luisjoey
22-01-2010, 15:29
Play empire! the most brave that goes to battle in tights!

larabic
22-01-2010, 15:41
I would start an Ogre kingdoms army... the models aren't bad, it takes few models to make a usable army and a fine place to start for a new player. Since the rumor about impact hits on minotaurs i can see a easy direction they would take ogres i think they will shape up to be a fine army in the future, use that time to build up an army and avoid being a band wagoner when the time comes!

mattschuur
22-01-2010, 16:03
Ogre Kingdoms-

1.) Cheap models, If your just getting into the game its better to go cheap and see if you like it before committing whole paychecks.

2.) Nice Models- Really the only 'bad' models in the whole range IMHO is the Gorger and Yhettes. Other than that they have a strong range that is fairly easy to paint.

3.) Rareness- I know of only 1 other person in my area who owns ogres, other than me, and he rarely uses them. Sometimes its just fun to be the odd ball of the group.

4.) Competition- Granted when compared to the most recent books Ogres seem and are weaker. However, they still have some strengths (fear, Tyrants, Gut magic, speed.) and with skill can easily win a few games. Not to mention, they'll be due a new book in the future so they won't be weak forever.

5.) Versatility- People forget that Ogres have Mercenary units. Whose to say you can't build a Hochland army with some Ogre Irongut merc's? Or, since you like the maneater models use them as Dogs of war.

Matt schuur