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Cartoon
21-01-2010, 04:09
Hey all, I have a question about the single shot, multi-wound, no armor save allowed shot that the HE bolt thrower can make. I play WOC and I was running and Exalted on a steed in a unit of 5 knights. However, it happened where the only model the HE bolt-thrower could see was my exalted champ, as the knights themselves were obstructed by a hill.

Now I'm not very familiar with HE rules, but I thought that normally you wouldn't be able to target a character if he is unit of at least 5 other models. In this case though, since the only model in the unit the bolt thrower had line of sight to was the exalted, we figured he could fire the shot and target the character. Is this the case?

I can certainly see why it would be if it is, I'm just wondering because the rules (as far as I know) don't really cover this situation. Thank you very much.

Nurgling Chieftain
21-01-2010, 04:35
Heh. This ends up being kind of counter-intuitive. As the BT can see a model in the unit, it can target the unit. As the unit has five non-character models, the character cannot be hit. It'll hit a normal knight in the same unit. So's it goes...

Cartoon
21-01-2010, 05:35
Aw shucks, that means I lost an exalted when I shouldn't have. I take it that it works the same way for the other type of shot it fires as well, correct? Meaning that all it needs is line of sight to at least one model to be able to target the whole unit?

Edit - sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, I'm still trying to get the gist of all the rules.

Kloud13
21-01-2010, 06:19
Well the exhalted champion didn't get to be an exhalted champion by caring for the others around him. On the contrary, don't you become exhalted by steppin on a few heads?

Now that being said, I don't think that exhalted would be above pulling one of the underlings in front of him when he saw that Bolt coming.

But once the unit has less than 5 models, I think he has a tougher time finding someone dumb enough to take a hit for him.

Avian
21-01-2010, 06:36
Meaning that all it needs is line of sight to at least one model to be able to target the whole unit?
Each firing model needs line of sight to the enemy unit in order to shoot at it.
Thus you could easily end up with a situation where only some of the unit can fire, because the target is either obscured or out of the 90 degree arc of sight for parts of the firing unit.

But you only need line of sight and range to one model in the unit, yes. You could have 10 Handgunners who could all only see and have range to one guy in a unit of 5 Chaos Knight for them to all be able to shoot and potentially kill the whole unit, even if most were out of range and couldn't be seen.

Cartoon
21-01-2010, 07:27
Ah I understand now, thank you very much everyone for explaining it to me. Like I said it's a pretty noobish question but since I play WoC I really don't have a whole lot of familiarity with shooty things. Good to know for future games. I think I also forgot to apply the -1 to hit as well since he was marked Nurgle. Ah well, live and learn I guess.

TheDarkDaff
21-01-2010, 13:31
From what you said you made a mistake but there is an odditty with the single shot from Bolt Throwers (of all races). If the single shot hits a unit where the facing rank (or flank) is entirely made of characters, then one of the characters takes the hit.

BT---------------> CKKKKK

BT= Bolt Thrower
C= Character
K= Knights
So if the shot happens as above then the Character takes the initial hit then the knight behind will be hit if the character is killed. You also don't get "look out Sir!" to protect the character.

Gromdal
21-01-2010, 14:14
In the above example you would not hit the character. It would go through the knights but not the character (as there are more than 5 rnf)

And you dont get a look out sir roll because bolt thrs dont work like cannons, they are like normal shooting and simply wont hit characters in units until they are reduced to less than 5 men.

The SkaerKrow
21-01-2010, 15:42
Actually, considering how Bolt Thrower shots are resolved, there may be a precedent for hitting the character in the example. It might be worth mining the BRB and the Errata documents just to be certain.

stripsteak
21-01-2010, 17:19
In the above example you would not hit the character. It would go through the knights but not the character (as there are more than 5 rnf)

And you dont get a look out sir roll because bolt thrs dont work like cannons, they are like normal shooting and simply wont hit characters in units until they are reduced to less than 5 men.

double check the bolt thrower rules.
when shooting in the flank files count as ranks
if a rank contains only characters (including champions) or if the unit has less than 5 rank and file you need to randomize which model in the rank is hit.

so in the case above we are flank shooting into a file(now counted as a rank) that is made up of only characters, so randomize which 1 character in that rank is hit

Gromdal
21-01-2010, 17:32
Yeah I reread it, and it seems you are correct. My bad.

Zaustus
23-01-2010, 01:56
Hmm? That file is not made up of only characters. The regular Chaos Knights are just Chaos Knights.

What happens in the example from post #7 actually depends on whether there is a Knight Champion in the unit. If not, then the Exalted cannot be hit, and the regular Knights take the bolt as usual. If there is a Champ, then in that example there are only 4 rank 'n' file troops and you'll have to randomize between hitting the exalted, the champ or the regular knights.

Nurgling Chieftain
23-01-2010, 02:00
Hmm? That file is not made up of only characters. The regular Chaos Knights are just Chaos Knights.There's only one model in the file under discussion.

Zaustus
23-01-2010, 02:10
The picture in post 7 sure looks like a flank shot. There's only one model in the *rank* but the BRB says to treat files as ranks with a flank shot.

Nurgling Chieftain
23-01-2010, 03:43
You've got that backwards. There's only one model in the file but because it's a flank shot that file counts as the first rank. Then, you have a "rank" which consists only of one character, so he's the one hit.

Zaustus
23-01-2010, 04:41
Ah, got it thanks. That makes more logical sense anyway.