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axels15
20-05-2005, 23:19
I know its such a common question, but i was wondering if anyone knew a site to list all "known" space marine chapters, hopefully with color schemes, but thats a bonus. Thanks.

Brother Othorio
21-05-2005, 11:22
http://www.ironhands.com/chapters.htm
http://thewarp.net/war/stern/index/

Ass Goblin
22-05-2005, 01:23
The Iron Hands link doesn't work for me i'm afraid :(

panda
24-05-2005, 11:29
Lots of yummy marine goodness. Mmmmmm.

Brother Othorio
24-05-2005, 15:17
The Iron Hands link doesn't work for me i'm afraid :(

strange, it still works for me :S

axels15
27-05-2005, 01:19
strange, it still works for me :S

works for me as well, thanks for the site.

Bmaxwell
27-05-2005, 22:56
those 2 sites are what i use when i need stuff like that

Pertinax
27-05-2005, 23:01
The books "How to paint a Space Marine" and the "Index Insignium" have loads of illustrations of knownn cae marine chapters, as does the Space Marine Collecters Guide.

Twisted Ferret
28-05-2005, 00:08
What was chapter #2? :-o

Goblinardo
28-05-2005, 00:16
No one knows. Chapters 2 and 11 have been erased from all Imperial records.

Pertinax
28-05-2005, 09:11
That's Legion 2 and 11. There is a difference between the Legions and the Chapters.

Legions were the massive armies of Marines that were used prior to the Heresy. Chapters were founded as a result of the Heresy, and upon the recommendation/orders of Gulliman.

Chapters are about 1000 men. Legions were many chapters. And technically, the Legions don't exist anymore.

Goblinardo
28-05-2005, 17:51
Blarg! Ok, I stand corrected.

TheSonOfAbbadon
28-05-2005, 21:04
The Black Templars are still at legion strength, but have no chapter master and neer amass in one place.

Oh, and:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/chapter%2Dgallery/1/

EmperorsChamp01
29-05-2005, 00:36
Nice Site Love it

EmperorsChamp01
29-05-2005, 00:39
The BT are broken down in to Crusades. They arent based off the Codes Astarties. When they need alot of poeple they just gather 3 or 4 crusades together. A crusade could be anywhere from 10 marines and a Marshel to 1000 marines complete hvy sppt Everything.

TheSonOfAbbadon
29-05-2005, 12:05
Nice Site Love it

Well it is official. :)

Brother Othorio
29-05-2005, 13:37
the Black Templars arent at legion strength, the biggest number i have heard hypothesised is only 5,000 ~ which puts them at least 1/5th the size that the Ultramarines were at the END of the Heresy (and contrary to what alot of people seem to think, the UM didnt miss the Heresy, they just missed the Siege of Terra ~ they more than made up for it in the Great Scouring, even having some severly pyrrhic victories)

also the HH:Art Books from Black Library seem to have apparently revised the size of pre-heresy legions from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands

Castigator
29-05-2005, 16:24
And technically, the Legions don't exist anymore.



Well, not quite true... the loyal Legions don't exist anymore!


(See how groveling before the Emperors feet is your downfall? - evil laughter in the dark)

Zheardok
20-03-2006, 00:29
Search on the GW 40k website. There is more than one there.

Xeres
20-03-2006, 00:34
The dark angels and the sucessor chapters all work together as one so no, there are still legions around in a way :P.

tbh i think the Lion should have been warmaster really.

Inquisitor S.
20-03-2006, 01:59
If you are looking for a list and colour schemes, then you might try http://wh40k.lexicanum.de/wiki/Orden

But be warned that the information on the Chapters is in German.

Melchiah
04-04-2006, 05:40
I posted had posted a thread asking about info on tradior legions with fluff/background. Stupid me and of course i didnt see this one. My main question is that yes there are 1000 "known" Chapters. Does anyone know of any broken fluff with forgotten legions?
I mean Soul Drinkers became a new tratior legion cuz a book got writen (feel free to correct me on this if there was fluff on them from 3rd/2nd/1st EDs.)

PS
Yes I know i could just make up my own but i Like the idea of doing a Tratior leigion that is around but no one knows about or has simply forgotten about

DantesInferno
04-04-2006, 05:47
The Soul Drinkers didn't become a new Traitor Legion. In fact, there's no way for any group of marines to become a new Traitor Legion. The 9 Traitor Legions are permanently fixed in place, the original Legions which rebelled in the Horus Heresy. After that, the Imperium reorganised its Marines into Chapters. No new Traitor Legions possible.

It is, however, entirely possible to have groups of renegade Marines, either Chaos-worshipping or not, and there are plenty of examples of these (Red Corsairs, The Pyre, Sons of Malice, The Damned Company of Lord Caustos, etc). They will never be known as Traitor Legions though.

So basically, you've got a free slate to make up groups of Traitor/Renegade Marines, just as long as they've turned Traitor after the Heresy.

Melchiah
04-04-2006, 06:00
ok sorry "renegade." But my point and question was their fluff. I have thought about the Red Corsairs. But thir colour shecme is too simlaur too my colours of my Loyist SMs.
Again I do have a a free slate to make my own and agian, but im too lazy to think of my own chapters. I would just like to play a forgotten one.

Melchiah
05-04-2006, 22:41
Anyone got anything on "The Damned Company of Lord Caustos?" That sounds sweet.

Brother Othorio
05-04-2006, 23:11
they had a brief mention in the Renegades IA article: they're mercenaries but thats about it

Melchiah
05-04-2006, 23:25
Thats what Dante said, and that there as a brief mention in WD 304, but i cant seem to found it. If anyone has that issue, hook a brother up plz.

DantesInferno
05-04-2006, 23:40
Ah, my apologies, its WD 303 in Australia (304 has IA:Renegades on the spine for some unknown reason).

Here goes:


Most rebels will have suffered considerable losees at the hands of loyal forces, and in fact represent only the small number of survivors who escaped the Imperium's retribution. These forces form small warbands rather than Company or Chapter sized formations, and may find themselves fighting alongside other Chaos forces. The Damned Company of Lord Caustos is such a force, which, having been declared Traitor by an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, based on somewhat flimsy and circumstancial evidence, only later turned to the service of Choas in order to survive in a galaxy ultimately hostile to them. Lord Caustos and his followers now sell their services to any force that will provide them the equipment they need to continue their very existance.

EDIT: Their armour colours are purple shaded up to a greyish white, and gold trims.

Melchiah
06-04-2006, 07:02
No one knows. Chapters 2 and 11 have been erased from all Imperial records.

So feel free to make up your own to stand in is what ive been told by many other games and GW staff.

DantesInferno
06-04-2006, 14:14
So feel free to make up your own to stand in is what ive been told by many other games and GW staff.

Not a great idea. There's really no way for the two missing Legions to have operated at all during or after the Heresy - we simply know too much about the events for there to be two huge Legion-sized holes in the background - it makes so much more sense for them to have been eliminated pre-Heresy.

In any case, to have one of the two missing legions as your Marine force - it's far far too grandiose. The missing legions have stayed in the mystery of the 10 000 year old past for so long, there's simply no reason to use them for your marines when it's so easy to come up with your own cool concept that people will appreciate.

Leman Russ
06-04-2006, 15:17
Going back to the Missing legions, I beleve that is a referance to the II and XI Roman legions, who after deserting in battle (Or was it just losing their standard? I forget and damn Wiki doesnt wok on this PC), were expunged from roman records.

Go GW Plagerism! :)

Brother Othorio
06-04-2006, 16:16
Not a great idea. There's really no way for the two missing Legions to have operated at all during or after the Heresy - we simply know too much about the events for there to be two huge Legion-sized holes in the background - it makes so much more sense for them to have been eliminated pre-Heresy.


Rubbish. Complete and Utter rubbish.

The Horus Heresy and subsequent Great Scouring lasted somewhere from 7 to 14 years, sure we know they werent present during the Istvan III or Istvan V massacres or the battles for Prospero, Calth or Terra..

But we know sod all about the rest of it, hell we dont even have a definitive list of chapters involved in the Tallarn campaign (which according to Codex Titanicus was far bloodier than the Siege of Terra: that only lasted a matter of weeks/months, the Tallarn campaign lasted for several years with reinforcements being poured in continuously by both sides)

DantesInferno
07-04-2006, 01:35
Rubbish. Complete and Utter rubbish.

The Horus Heresy and subsequent Great Scouring lasted somewhere from 7 to 14 years, sure we know they werent present during the Istvan III or Istvan V massacres or the battles for Prospero, Calth or Terra..

But we know sod all about the rest of it, hell we dont even have a definitive list of chapters involved in the Tallarn campaign (which according to Codex Titanicus was far bloodier than the Siege of Terra: that only lasted a matter of weeks/months, the Tallarn campaign lasted for several years with reinforcements being poured in continuously by both sides)

:confused: It's not rubbish at all, it makes complete sense.

Surely the fact that the two missing legions were absent from all the major decisive battles of the Heresy would lead you to believe that they didn't in fact exist at the time. For example, after the Istvaan massacre, Horus attacked the Sol system with all his forces, except for the Night Lords, Alpha Legion and some Word Bearers, who were dispatched on numerous missons, primarily to halt the Ultramarines, with all his other Legions travelling to fight on Terra. Since we know who was fighting on Terra, the missing Legions weren't there. So what were they doing? Horus knew he needed as much power as he could to quickly break down the Palace, and he already has 3 legions acting as speedbumps of various kinds. We know what the other Loyalist legions were doing at the time, none of them were fighting unknown marines on the dash back to Terra.

I agree there's plenty of room for confusion after the Heresy, but the events of the Heresy itself leave no room to insert two whole Legions into the background.

Besides, having the lost legions surviving until during the Heresy raises plenty more problems. If one of them was Chaos, why were they eliminated from records when all the other Chaos legions are known? If one was Imperial, how did the Imperium wipe it out when at the time (pre-Guilliman codex) it was already clinging on to survival?

But again, even if it is possible, it's still not a good idea to use them as a post-Heresy army. Instead of making a long and implausible explanation of how they survived the Heresy and why their records were purged, you could make up your own concept which doesn't attempt to tear away one of the last few elements of mystery left in the background. And making up your own concept is much more fun anyway.

Zzarchov
07-04-2006, 02:06
Or..as is common with purging of records, they are not dead.

Rarely are records purged of dead and destroyed things. If their imperial records are purged..they are so secret only a handful know these legions exist, who they are or what they do.

Melchiah
07-04-2006, 09:01
I like thinking the idea of the of the records being hiddens more "40k"ish then 2 whole legions "up and vanished." How many "13th companies" can there be?
I rather like the theroy idea of the Grey knights and deathwatch being the 2. Yes I know their not really. but one can dream.:angel:

Rlyehable
07-04-2006, 12:27
If you want to include player created named chapters featured in WD, you can also look at my site:

http://www.cygnusx1.info/sm/

Brother Othorio
07-04-2006, 15:16
I agree there's plenty of room for confusion after the Heresy, but the events of the Heresy itself leave no room to insert two whole Legions into the background.


i still maintain that your talking rubbish, but i will agree with you if you can do the following:

name for me every single engagement of the Horus Heresy proper complete with canon evidence stating the extent of all forces involved in it.

Tynesh
07-04-2006, 15:27
name for me every single engagement of the Horus Heresy proper complete with canon evidence stating the extent of all forces involved in it.
Hate to make you sound stupid here, but...

...if all the records of them had been deleted, save for the fact that there is no evidence of the Legions 2 & 11, then how is one to know that they didn't fight in big battles duing the Crusade or Heresy? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as one person I know might say.

Hell these Legions could have fought at the Battle of Terra and still have had their names removed. It does say that all records were purged...so there we go!

Cheers

Tynesh

DantesInferno
08-04-2006, 01:10
Hate to make you sound stupid here, but...

...if all the records of them had been deleted, save for the fact that there is no evidence of the Legions 2 & 11, then how is one to know that they didn't fight in big battles duing the Crusade or Heresy? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, as one person I know might say.

Hell these Legions could have fought at the Battle of Terra and still have had their names removed. It does say that all records were purged...so there we go!

Your argument might nearly make sense if you overlook the fact that mention of Legions 2 and 11 was deleted from Imperial records. What we're told about the Heresy goes far beyond what the Imperial records of the time would be able to tell you.

For instance, we know that the Word Bearers turned to Chaos well before Horus did.

Thus, what we know about the Heresy is not merely the Imperial records, but a narration of what actually happened (give or take). If what we are told goes beyond the Imperial records when telling us all the other events of the Heresy, why would what we're told only stick to mention of what the Imperium records regarding the missing legions?

And as for the point that the missing legions could have fought in the major battles.......Well, we're told for example the force sent to Istvaan by the Emperor comprised of 7 legions. We know which ones they are. Therefore, you can't wedge more in. We're told the Space Wolves (with some Custodes etc) fought on Prospero with the Thousand Sons - are you going to argue there was another Legion there which everyone else forgot to mention?

And as for the Battle of Terra. We know the Blood Angels and Imperial Fists were fighting on the walls and in the Palace, we know the White Scars were counter-attacking the Lion's Gate space port.
We know the Sons of Horus were largely held in reserve, we know the Iron Warriors were directing the siege efforts, we know the Death Guard and World Eaters were attacking the walls, etc.

Given that we've got an accurate description of what all the various legions were doing, how plausible is it that there's a Legion there on either side which we haven't heard about? (Remember that these sources have no reason to omit mention, since they're a global overview, not Imperial records)

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, but if there's an absence of evidence where you would expect evidence time and time again, it becomes increasingly implausible.


i still maintain that your talking rubbish, but i will agree with you if you can do the following:

name for me every single engagement of the Horus Heresy proper complete with canon evidence stating the extent of all forces involved in it.

I don't think I need to. I'm not arguing that the existance of the missing legions in the Horus Heresy was strictly impossible, but that it is so implausible that it is useless as an explanation of events, and thus a hopeless theory.

If they existed, it seems very likely that they would have fought in some of the major battles, or at least been mentioned in regards to them.

Since they weren't participating or weren't mentioned, it seems likely they didn't exist. This establishes prima facie that they didn't exist, if you can come up with a plausible explanation to explain their existances which holds up in light of what we know about the Heresy, that would be a workable hypothesis.