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RobbTPR
04-02-2010, 12:44
I'm entering a small campaign and my list needs to be in today (tomorrow if I can swing it) I'll be up against Brettonians and Dark Elves and really really need some feed back on this list.

Valkia the bloody 410

Exhalted, BSB, Steed, Shield, MoS 161

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, MoN 140

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, MoT, Disc 160

Core.

12 WoC, shields FC, MoS 232

20 Marauders, Shields FC 120

5 Marauder Horsemen, light armour, shields FC 105

Special.

5 Knights, FC, MoS 260

5 Knights, FC, MoS 260

10 Chosen, shields, MoS, FC 250

Rare.

Warshrine, MoT 150

Total 2248


Any and all help will be gratefully recieved.

Robb

sever14
04-02-2010, 14:09
i would drop shields or light armor off the marauder horsemen as they are no longer fast cav with both options. I also wouldnt take both warriors and chosen, pick one drop the other. Take another unit of maruaders of mar horsemen. Then beef up on somemagic items to help your sorceres cast.

kyussinchains
04-02-2010, 14:32
valkia leading an almost entirely slaanesh army? tut-tut Robbo my lad...... ;)

Don Zeko
04-02-2010, 14:39
I think you can do fine with both warriors and chosen, but I'd recommend finding the points to give both of those units halberds. Start by taking the light armor off of your marauder horsemen. Also, with Valkia and a Warshrine in the army, you'll want to get favour of the gods on your Chosen champion; Eye of the Gods is awesome, so make the most out of it. You'll also probably do better marking those knights, warriors and chosen Nurgle or Khorne, unless you have some fluff reason to mark them slaanesh. I'm not sure where to find points for all of this, but you might start by taking some command models off of your knights. Those champions are very expensive for a pretty modest benefit.

RobbTPR
04-02-2010, 14:54
@kyussinchains, I know, I know. I just want an excuse to make and use her!! Have you got any idea's? Bearing in mind there'll be a Hydra and you know my feelings towards Dark Elves :D (Congrats by the way, no excuse for a game now)

I've gone with MoS as the last few games I played it served me well as my dice rolling sucks.
Ok a slight revision,

Valkia the bloody 410

Exhalted, BSB, Steed, Shield, MoS 161

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, MoN 140

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, MoT, Disc 160

Core.

12 WoC, shields, Halberds FC, 234

20 Marauders, Shields FC 120

5 Marauder Horsemen, shields FC 100

Special.

5 Knights, Musician/Standard, 230

5 Knights, Musician/Standard, 230

10 Chosen, shields, Halberds, MoN, FC 280

Rare.

Warshrine, MoT 150

Total 2215

kyussinchains
04-02-2010, 15:57
I'd drop the full command from your marauder horsemen, just leave them with a musician for the essential flee and rally tactics, a standard is worth 100VPs which could easily lose you a game if you're unlucky.... with those points and the ones you had spare you could fit at least a dispel scroll one one of your sorcerers and give your BSB the sword of might or something....

RobbTPR
04-02-2010, 16:09
Ok so now it looks like this,

Valkia the bloody 410

Exhalted, BSB, Steed, Shield, War Banner, MoT 191

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, MoN, Dispell Scroll 165

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, MoT, Disc 160

Core.

12 WoC, shields, Halberds FC, 234

20 Marauders, Shields FC 120

5 Marauder Horsemen, shields Musician 76

Special.

5 Knights, Musician/Standard, 230

5 Knights, Musician/Standard, 230

10 Chosen, shields, Halberds, MoN, FC 280

Rare.

Warshrine, MoT 150

Total 2246


I've given the BSB the MoT and War Banner, and just left the musician in the horsemen and given a scroll to the Nurgle Sorcerer.
Any other ideas?

RobbTPR
04-02-2010, 16:20
Would I be better off swapping Valkia out for a lord, steed, MoS, Shield, Talisman of Protection, Father of Blades and Armour of Damnation for 349? It would give me 65 points to play with.

Jack of Blades
04-02-2010, 16:48
Would I be better off swapping Valkia out for a lord, steed, MoS, Shield, Talisman of Protection, Father of Blades and Armour of Damnation for 349? It would give me 65 points to play with.

Do this, don't add in the Talisman and for the points you get, get another unit of Marauder Horsemen with Musician & Flails as well as remove Shields from the first one and give them Flails too.

RobbTPR
04-02-2010, 17:12
The only thing is I've not got anymore Horsemen models, are there any other alternatives?

Neknoh
04-02-2010, 17:15
List your available models and we'll see if we can spruce this up then.

Jack of Blades
04-02-2010, 17:21
The only thing is I've not got anymore Horsemen models, are there any other alternatives?

Yes. If you're facing Dark Elves and Bretonnia then you have exactly the kind of army that this guy likes facing (low T), so I would modify the BSB into this:

Exalted Hero - 304 points
Flail
Shield
Battle Standard Bearer
Soporific Musk
Festering Shroud
Mark of Khorne
Chariot

You have nothing to deal with units of ASF Black Guard otherwise - this guy will smash them apart like nothing. He can also counter-charge Bretonnians very potently and units fleeing from him have a tendency not to get away. Just remove the Mark from your Warshrine to pay for him. On the charge this guy has a whole load of attacks at S4, 5 and 7 along with a bunch of S5 autohits as well as a present in the form of a passed T test or a wound lost without armour save to each model in base contact at the start of your magic phase. I can assure you that highly armoured T3 models hate this.

If you can hold your enemy's blocks then this guy can rampage through his battleline and slaughter everything.

Neknoh
04-02-2010, 18:20
The Mark of Khorne however, can, and, in my opinion, ought to be, replaced by the Mark of Nurgle or the Mark of Slaanesh on that character kitout, since Mark of Khorne does not confer to the steeds, and, as such, will only award you an extra 2 attacks.

Witchblade
04-02-2010, 18:29
The Mark of Khorne however, can, and, in my opinion, ought to be, replaced by the Mark of Nurgle or the Mark of Slaanesh on that character kitout, since Mark of Khorne does not confer to the steeds, and, as such, will only award you an extra 2 attacks.
That's 6th Ed. Frenzy now works for the full model.

RobbTPR
04-02-2010, 18:40
Let's see, I've got, all these are in addition to what's already in the list.

2x Spawn,
Chaos Giant,
Chariot,
Khorne Lord on Juggernaught,
Nurgle Mounted lord,
15 Forsaken,
15-20 WoC
Archaon,
Galrauch,
Hellcannon,
5 more Knights

Neknoh
04-02-2010, 20:08
That's 6th Ed. Frenzy now works for the full model.

That's frenzy.
Was Mark of Khorne not errata'd to only affect the main model(s) and not the steeds? I seem to recall as such and there being a big uproar about it. Which is why the Banner of Rage beats Mark of Khorne every day.


As for the list and what you've got, I still support the chariot idea (albeit with Mark of Nurgle or Slaanesh instead of Khorne), and I would also advice to use a group of 6 forsaken if you can find the points. Mayhap these instead of a second unit of Horsemen? They can multitask exceedingly well and will scare the bejeebus out of most Dark Elf and even Bretonnian units (flanking with them onto bretonnian lances is something that is, generally, considered rude to do... and highly effective :skull: )


EDIT: I stand corrected http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2350036_WarriorsofChaosFAQFeb2009.pdf
It would apear I was remembering the errata of the Hordes of Chaos book instead of the above Warriors of Chaos errata.

Maoriboy007
04-02-2010, 20:24
Shouldn't you have two warshrines and a couple of units of chosen to make the most of Valkias special ability to re-roll EotG results? Expensive I know, but since you're already shelling out points for her.
You should have at least 1 stubborn unit with a 4+ ward bt T2-3. Especially with the item that gives +-1 to the rolls as well.

RobbTPR
04-02-2010, 20:33
I'd forgotten about that, I am in the process of building a second shrine.

RobbTPR
05-02-2010, 06:21
So after another look and some minor tweeks this is how the list is looking,


Lord, steed, MoS, Shield, Father of Blades, Armour of Damnation 334

Exhalted, BSB, Chariot, Shield, Festering Shroud, Soporific Musk, MoS 290

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, MoN, Dispell Scroll 165

Lvl 2 Sorcerer, MoT, Disc 160

Core.

12 WoC, shields, Halberds FC, 234

20 Marauders, Shields FC 120

5 Marauder Horsemen, shields Musician 76

Special.

5 Knights, Musician/Standard, 230

5 Knights, Musician/Standard, 230

10 Chosen, shields, Halberds, MoN, FC 280

Rare.

Warshrine, 130

Total 2249

zanzibar
05-02-2010, 11:50
Looking at your revised list my own opinion would be too many points are sunk in your characters, perhaps lose the lord. exalted heroes make the grade against most other lord level characters. U need more warriors, lose the FC on the marauders and give them mark of slaanesh instead. Are the command option necessary on the knights, with their stats? lose the shrine, get more warriors, or some hounds.

Jack of Blades
05-02-2010, 14:29
I wouldn't drop the Lord but I would take either Chosen or Warriors. Drop one of them and put those points into some Marauders. This is merely what I'd do, your list is okay but it's going to be a case of multiple hammers ganging up on units with little anvil support.

Eta
05-02-2010, 21:17
Every WoC list without at least two units of hounds is - IMO - fail. There is no unit in our list that is more versatile for its point cost.

Greetings
Eta

Neknoh
05-02-2010, 23:30
Actually, there are. I am oft an advocate of Forsaken, I've had lengthy discussions about them in the tactica thread as well (around page 85 or somesuch).

108 points for 6
Harder to kill than horsemen
Can do the same as horsemen (assassinations, flanks, screens)
Can kill stuff threatening your flanks with relative reliance
Can decimate enemy fodder and serve to weaken enemy elites
Will be a threat even when reduced to 2 models, which, being more survivable than horsemen (a LOT more), will cause this to seldom happen.

As a "point for roles and succes at roles" ratio, these exceed Warhounds.

However. Warhounds are bloody good at screening, and can do ad-hoc jobs (albeit not always that good), which make them excellent for their points.

However. They are still 5 or 6 cavalry bases wide, space you might not always want on your table. Not every list needs them, for if you're running multiple screening units and multiple main-threats, there simply wont be a need for them.

In the revised list, I have to agree, I am not THAT keen on Lords (lest they are specialist tools to destroy stuff), but I digress on the Warrior part. Keep the Warriors and the chosen. And KEEP the War Altar, these three will work wonderfully together with your two knight units.

The Lord could be dropped in order to incorporate a unit of Forsaken, Horsemen or smaller infantry contingent of Marauders (or to bulk up your Marauder unit), as well as to include something a bit more can-open-y. Again, Forsaken are adequate at this job, but you might want something more specific, such as Greatweapon Ogres or Dragon Ogres, either of these could be fitted allongside a smaller support unit and some more Marauders.

Your Marauder Block will want Full Command though, and with the Eye of the Gods present, you will definately want a champion in each unit that your characters go in. This to have someone override their forced challenges by abbiding by the same rule. I.e. where a Sorceror might have to challenge, the unit champ can now do it instead due to the Eye of the Gods rule. (Also something discussed at length in the tactica on more than one occasion. Warshrines remove that weakness of the characters in the list).

Now I'm off for bed.

RobbTPR
06-02-2010, 05:30
Well thanks for all the help, I ended up submitting the last posted list as I was pushing the deadline a bit to much (oops)
But I'll be back after we're a couple of games into the campaign for some list revisions.

Thanks again

TP