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View Full Version : The future of Tomb Kings



Jack of Blades
06-02-2010, 03:41
Out of sheer curiosity, just what is it that you Tomb King players feel needs to be done about TK in order to bring them up to par with the current pace of the army books? New units? new magic items? remade spells? adjusted point costs? Then there are the more obvious things, like Caskets no longer taking up a rare slot. I wonder, not because I want to start TK but because if I take part in a good campaign (which I intend to at some point) I want to ally with TK. Don't really have any concrete reasons, I just feel drawn towards allying with TK.

We always hear about how TK are lagging behind and all of that, but I haven't seen much juice squeezed on how to go about fixing TK.

Witchblade
06-02-2010, 03:56
They're underpowered, but that could easily be solved.

My main problem with TK is that the army is monotonous. The entire army design lends itself only to castling up. Internal balance plays a notable part in this, but what the army really needs is more variety.

Edit: it seems you want more concrete ideas, so here are some:
- The following units need a point cost reduction: skeleton spearmen, tomb swarms, horsemen (or drop them altogether), ushabti, bone giant (major), tomb guard (minor).
- The scorpion needs to be toned down and made more expensive, e.g. can no longer charge on the turn it crawls out of the ground.
- Magic needs a fundamental change, so that it's no longer a prerequisite in army lists.
- Combat orientated magic items need a serious power-up.
- The flying cloak should cost more.
- Icon bearers could become a 1-per-tomb-guard-unit choice instead of a hero choice, or a prince could be BSB.
- I'm not sold on the casket not being a rare choice idea, because the army lends itself to gunlines already far too well. A gunline with a casket and two scatapults is just nasty.

snurl
06-02-2010, 05:31
Already discussed a lot here:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230644

Bloodknight
06-02-2010, 10:13
The entire army design lends itself only to castling up.

That's because most units are weak on the offense, and the relentless magic phase isn't relentless enough to pull of lots off movement manoeuvers nowadays; in my experience you're lucky to get one spell through per turn. in fact, you're lucky to get more than one unit to normal marching speed, and I can't remember the last time that I'd really have had the time to cast a healing spell...
Also, the offensive units like Ushabti are far too expensive for what they can do, so it all boils down to a King and Tomb Guard, and Tomb Guard don't do much either - their main plus is that they can take the Icon of Rakaph :(

Oh, and the TK magic defense is too weak.

Gazak Blacktoof
06-02-2010, 11:56
A little while ago I wrote my own version of the book and tested it out. I didn't really consider any major design change at the time though and instead just tweaked a few things around the edges. It "worked" in that the result was fairly well balanced. However, I now think that the army simply needs to be able to march in order that it be fun to play. Its simply too frustrating to play an army that on accasion has problems making across the board in the full 6 turns of a game.

The mechanic for marching doesn't have to be identical to that of other armies. It could be incorporated instead as a magic move for any unit with a banner- either D6" with the ability to charge or a standard move without the ability.

The curse needs to become an active ability instead of a passive one when a model dies, because it is often forgotten and if it works can really add an unpleasant element to the game. Kings/ Princes could then have smiting and curses, giving them a ranged and close combat threat.

I've probably said it at least a dozen times on the forums, but I'd like some vassal humans to accompany my undead. Its an interesting part of the background IMO that could be used to justify some great new models and interesting tactical opportunities.

Wight crew for chariots-they're supposed to be minor royality or guards that accompany the kings.

I'd also like to see the casket of souls become mobile. We tried it out as an upgrade for tomb guard and it was great fun. No more exposed liche priests. I adjusted it to affect only the closest D3 units so that its positioning was crucial to its impact on the game.


Well that's my wishlist, everything else would just be tweaking around the edges.

sulla
06-02-2010, 18:31
The scorpions tunnelling rules need to be toned down a little. Charging on a hit is fine, but charging even on a miss... On a miss, he should come out facing the direction of the scatter dice.

Icon bearer should be a free hero choice. No slot used. Or just ditch the concept and let princes carry the banner.

The casket guardians need to be champions so they can issue and accept challenges.

Skeletons and tomb guard need to be a point or two cheaper.

Ushabti and bone giants need to be cheaper or get special rules (or better special rules in the case of the bone giant).

Get rid of s7=autodestroy from the game. And the character's mounts should still have a driver.

Personally, I would let all TK infantry always march. The army is supposed to be relentless but no marching relegates the army to one of relentless shooting instead. Always marching means they work better as an attacking force. (I would reduce the power of the magical move spell too; it doesn't need to be that powerful once they have good movement).

Tomb princes either need good magic weapons or good magic defensive items so that they will be taken over liche priests. At the moment, they are an underwhelming choice compared to another shot from a catapult or a flank charge from chariots. I'd give the princes and kings access to a long bow too (chariot bow) when mounted. They should have a shooting option to differentiate them from VC. A couple of shooting magic weapons too.

Other than that, I quite like the army as it is. Solid shooting, a great relentless magic phase, cheap cav for redirecting or flank charges, chariots as a mobile bodyguard for the general, great minis and a characterful book and imagery.

Toshiro
06-02-2010, 20:17
I'm quite happy with the book as it is, only things I'd want changed are:

Skeleton warriors either one point cheaper or comes with light armour by default
Skeleton warriors +1ws
Tomb guards given great weapons
Ushabtis +1-2 armour save
Bone giant cheaper

With those changes I'd be happy :)

Sand
06-02-2010, 23:19
Their magic probably needs an upgrade, so they have more of a chance to actually get some spells through.
Many options seem overpriced compared to newer armies.

Perhaps they should be able to march when within 6" (for example) of the Liche Priests? Shamelessly nicked from VC ofc, but it'd give them a bit of mobility, while still retaining the feel of an army driven forward by the priests' power and not being all that fast overall.

zak
06-02-2010, 23:34
The main problem with TK's is the creation of the Doc, VC and DE books. These books raised the power bar too much meaning the TK's and many other 6th edition books (and 7th actually) were left behind in the also ran category. Most units are too expensive and the army as mentioned too inhibited by lack of marching. I'm just hoping the the new book doesn't tip them the other way in balance and make them too powerful.