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Wolf 11x
06-02-2010, 21:08
Hey all,

I played Nids extensively during 4th and have a fully painted 1500 point army. However, I'm not sure if I want to get back into playing them or not. I quit playing 40k when 5th edition came out, primarily because I hate the new Line of Sight rules and tanks became too much of an issue for my army. There are a few other oddities I don't care for either.

With that said, here is what I own:

2 Tyrants with Venom Cannon / Devourer
4 Tyrant Guard
3 Carnifexes with Twin Devourers
2 Carnifexes with Venom Cannon / Barbed Strangler
2 Zoanthropes
3 Raveners
32 Spinefist Gaunts
32 Fleshborer Gaunts
20 Genestealers

My primary problem is that I don't want to re-invest too much time and money. I don't want to buy the Codex for no reason.

With what I own, what can you recommend? Could I make a viable list? I have a lot of leftover bits to switch arms, and I don't mind spending ~$125.

Thanks.

WinglessVT2
06-02-2010, 21:22
It's a very powerful, mid-ranged shooting army, with infantry that's numerical superior, or superior by the sheer force of their stats and abilities.

Yes, you can make a fully viable army out of that, but the army itself doesn't play like you're used to, at all, so you'll need to learn it all over again.

Wolf 11x
06-02-2010, 21:23
All I played was midrange shooting...

WinglessVT2
06-02-2010, 21:26
Really?
Then you shouldn't have much problem at all.

Bear in mind that fleshborer is the 'default' now, and you'll be paying extra for anything else.
I really don't know which gun is 'the best,' but twin spinefists is the most reliable.

Zoanthropes are also the best anti-tank unit in the entire game right now.

Even if you don't feel like playing them, pick up the codex anyway. It's a great read.

Wolf 11x
06-02-2010, 21:30
Due to the range of Devourers, I always spent the first turn moving up. Venom Cannons stunned tanks while Zoanthropes tried to get into position. Once I reached that 18" for Devourers, I laid waste to everything. I rarely got into combat.

Are Zoanthropes any different now? I can never seem to get that "to-hit" roll. Also, how good are the new Trygon / Mawloc?

+EDIT+

I should probably mention I only played Nidzilla. I rarely used the Gaunts. :D

samiens
06-02-2010, 21:38
zoanthropes are more accurate now and their anti-tank is unbelievably powerful. The trygon and Mawloc are very effective- and seem to be much more points efficient than Carnifexes.

Nids now seem to work best as a more combined force than just nidzilla but time will tell- my girlfriend only plays Nids and she is very happy with the new book

WinglessVT2
06-02-2010, 21:47
You're going to find a world where all the monsters have been made twice as expensive, and all those little things you always took are baked into pretty much all profiles.
Unlike the world you knew, this world now requires you to field a lot of cheap, disposable bodies (gaunts), or armored bodies, that eat people ending up too close (genestealers, warriors).
For some bizarre reason, GW now lets you field up to three carnifex for each heavy support 'slot,' but his is going to cost you like 350 points.

They've become a real army now, with a focus on mid-range shooting, of the deadly kind. 12 strength-6 from each monter? Yes, please.
Linked strength-3 to 4, from my regular guys? Sure.
Bolter-equivalents for gaunts? Check.

So on.
It's an all-new army, and it's strong. If you played nidzilla, you're going to have a lot of whine for us once you've picked the book up, but yeah - they're really powerful.

LonelyPath
06-02-2010, 21:50
The new Nids codex has its ups and downs, but it's a good codex with many tricks up its sleeves. Zoans are powerful to say th least and if you're able to lay your hands on some styrofoam eggs (I find 150mm tall ones work best) you can proxy some Mycetic Spores for next to nothing to place them in for some instant, in-range, tank blasting.

With Fexes costing alot more in points, Nidzilla is not as viable now, but as already mentioned, Trygons and Mawlocs are useful tools (I plan to never leave home without at least one in my roster) and backed up with smaller Nids you can create a good, well balanced force.

Looking at your collection you should easily be able to put together a reasonable force with minimal fuss and monetary investment. Also look into a possible Doom of Malan'tai conversion as that thing is very deadly to enemy infantry.

Worsle
06-02-2010, 23:03
Depending on what points you play at you could put together a fairly good walking force with what you have without to many alterations. I would look to invest in some hive guard (2 units of 2) to go with your thropes witch should help you with a lot of your tank problems. Despite what a lot of people think your fexes still have a place and the devourer ones can really earn their keep.

Nids now have the tools to be a real army in the 5th edition so if nothing else your problems with tanks are gone. Any one who says nidzilla is gone is wrong and are probably would fielding mawlocs in pod armies or some thing just as pointless.

LKHERO
06-02-2010, 23:05
Hey all,

I played Nids extensively during 4th and have a fully painted 1500 point army. However, I'm not sure if I want to get back into playing them or not. I quit playing 40k when 5th edition came out, primarily because I hate the new Line of Sight rules and tanks became too much of an issue for my army. There are a few other oddities I don't care for either.

With that said, here is what I own:

2 Tyrants with Venom Cannon / Devourer
4 Tyrant Guard
3 Carnifexes with Twin Devourers
2 Carnifexes with Venom Cannon / Barbed Strangler
2 Zoanthropes
3 Raveners
32 Spinefist Gaunts
32 Fleshborer Gaunts
20 Genestealers

My primary problem is that I don't want to re-invest too much time and money. I don't want to buy the Codex for no reason.

With what I own, what can you recommend? Could I make a viable list? I have a lot of leftover bits to switch arms, and I don't mind spending ~$125.

Thanks.

With that, you can make.....


HQ:
Tyrant (BS/LW, Stranglethorn, Hive Commander) = 220
Guard (LW) = 65

TROOP:
23x Gaunts = 115
22x Gaunts = 110
10x Genestealers = 140

ELITE:
3x Zoans (Pod) = 220
3x Zoans (Pod) = 220

HEAVY:
3x Carnifex (Twin Devo, Regen) = 645
Trygon Prime (Regen) = 265

It's pretty good. All you need to buy is 4 more Zoans and a Trygon. That fits within your budget. And you'll have a pretty solid list in 2k. Stealers come from the tunnel. Footslog everything else (even Zoans if you need some distraction). You can easily split the Zoans for 1:1 footslog/drop for mixed anti-tank placement.

If you want, you can drop the Tyrant Guard since you don't really need him cause the Hive Tyrant should be chillin' behind the Fexes. That way, you can buy Old Adversary and buff up your Gaunt/Stealer squads some more :)

genestealer_baldric
06-02-2010, 23:31
NO dont get back into nids the codex has so many loopholes and is so much more bland and boaring than the last one i would save your money trying to make it usefull and focus on another existing army.

Despite my condiderable nid army from the codex its been more or less manitory to either to butcher/greenstuff into new stuff or buy alotof brand new things to get a vagley viable list.

Worsle
06-02-2010, 23:35
See what confuses me about posts like that is the old codex did not have a viable list. If you where happy under the old codex with no real list why is the new codex so abhorrent? Nids become a complete and very usable army with lots of options and people complain I am really not sure what is going on.

genestealer_baldric
06-02-2010, 23:40
they have become a bland force with so little options and no style and very limited customization, and at a recent tourniment its proven how bland it is by 5 diffrent people allready having more or less the same lists. No Viable Lists? there were more diffrent lists than i could shake a very large stick at despite peoples loves of Nidzilla there were still many diffrent overlooked options, if people still use this cuurent codex there will be 1 list that almost everyone will use.

Worsle
06-02-2010, 23:53
A resent tournament? What tournament? Was it a big one? Or just a local one for you? Really just saying some tournament proves it means very little unless you give some real details. Very few options though? Have you looked at the codex there are plenty of options in every section force organisation chart. Units have more than enough options too, sorry but having a million and one little changes for a unit is not customization it is an act of madness.

The old codex has zero lists that could be called an all comers list in the 5th edition. If this codex only had one that would be a 100% improvement however I have already seen far most lists that that. Nids now have the tools to be a real competitive army and it is good to see.

RampagingRavener
07-02-2010, 00:02
and at a recent tourniment its proven how bland it is by 5 diffrent people allready having more or less the same lists.

Haha, oh wow. And that's totally different to the previous codex, where bland Shooty Monstrous Creature or Stealershock lists dominated, right?

OP, I'd say go for it. A mid-range shooty Tyranid army is certainly possible, but the exact composition will have changed quite a bit. You've got a decent collection of models there and off the top of my head, the only ones which are literally unusable are the VC/BS Carnifexes, as they're limited to taking one of the two now.

texancowboy
07-02-2010, 00:15
i just bought the codex, ive never played nids before, but ive wanted to for years. id have to say i dont think the codex is bad at all, and i cant wait to start makin me an army. im really beginnin to just pissed off with posts like this, no offense, but it pisses me off when someone asked a simple question about the ups an downs of a new dex. then suddenly everybody an their grandma has to have a personaly opinion. why cant people just keep it the facts/stats about the army and let other people decide their own opinions on weither they think its **** or not?

Rydmend
07-02-2010, 00:24
I like certain things about the new codex and dislike others but what are you gonna do. My main gripes are just point cost issues and unclear wording on a couple of rules, the carnifex took a hit but I don't think it is as terrible as it is made out to be.

If you say you want to save time and money then you may as well just use the models you have and buy some other models to support them. This way you can but 2-3 boxes and a couple blisters and it will be cheaper and less time consuming than starting from scratch.

Worsle
07-02-2010, 00:28
What facts do you want stated? It has units? Hive guard are really good at taing down light tanks and anything eldar? Onslaught lets you surprise people with a larger shooting radius than they expected? Surprisingly few marines in the codex?

Problem is when it comes down to analysis after the basic stuff opinions start taking over. Unless we just post the contents of the codex there is no way not to colour it in our perceptions. That and theoryhammer with no context can be massively misleading. Ork shootas look great on paper but once you put them into the army as a whole and their options you start seeing problems everywhere. Though having said that I am willing to bet some people are willing to go to the wall defending them.

texancowboy
07-02-2010, 01:01
im just sayin that every single one of these posts have turned into battles on who likes it an who dont. just kinda gettin on my nerves.

Rydmend
07-02-2010, 01:51
i just bought the codex, ive never played nids before, but ive wanted to for years. id have to say i dont think the codex is bad at all, and i cant wait to start makin me an army. im really beginnin to just pissed off with posts like this, no offense, but it pisses me off when someone asked a simple question about the ups an downs of a new dex. then suddenly everybody an their grandma has to have a personaly opinion. why cant people just keep it the facts/stats about the army and let other people decide their own opinions on weither they think its **** or not?

Ups and downs of a codex are indeed always going to be opinions. There is no fact-book you can check to see "Do lictors suck or not?" You simply have to deal with the fact that some people consider a certain unit a viable one that works for them and some may feel that same unit is crap.

I don't know what you were expecting from a "should I start or restart such and such army" thread. These threads are the equivalent of asking what flavor ice cream should someone should get next time they go to the store.... and you're getting pissed when a bunch of people say "you should get vanilla 'cause I think vanilla tastes good."

LonelyPath
07-02-2010, 02:18
i just bought the codex, ive never played nids before, but ive wanted to for years. id have to say i dont think the codex is bad at all, and i cant wait to start makin me an army. im really beginnin to just pissed off with posts like this, no offense, but it pisses me off when someone asked a simple question about the ups an downs of a new dex. then suddenly everybody an their grandma has to have a personaly opinion. why cant people just keep it the facts/stats about the army and let other people decide their own opinions on weither they think its **** or not?

Sadly it's the way of the world and people are free to voice their opinions. I am just happy that people are alot politer on here than they are in places like You Tube where it's constant flaming in many comment areas.

Some people will always like A and others prefer B and then someone will come in and say they're both useless since C pees on them both.

However, the best thing you can do is go out, grab some miniatures to use as proxies and try it out. Most gamers are happy with proxies if you explain to them "these Cadians are termagants, that sentinel is a hive tyrant with blah blah, etc". Just keep things simple and nobody really minds. I've had alot of people mention to me how useless the Harpy is, but I like the idea so I'm assembling one for my hive fleet. At the end of the day, if you want to try it, you try it and don't let others spoil for fun, I never let them stop me :)

If you like a unit, use it, it's your army and your game. Same goes for armies, or even entire game systems for that matter ;)

texancowboy
07-02-2010, 02:33
youve got a point. ppl are typically polite on here. sorry i came off rude, im just annoyed. and yes lonelypath i agree ppl just gotta do want they want an have fun. i got the nid codex cause i liked it even though i pad attention to what ppl on warseer said about it first. it was a lot of negative, but i know ill enjoy the nids.

Vexbane
07-02-2010, 05:07
I would suggest to buy the codex and read it for yourself. That is the only way to know if you will like them or not.

Nidzilla is dead. At least the way you know it. You will have to get new models to stay competitive, but overall I like the new Nids. They are a completely different army from 4th ed.

Lazarus15
07-02-2010, 07:47
I can PM you the details, but I have played several games with a brood of fexes with claws and regen. All of which have a fair amount of little gribblies and the points of the game was 2000. However the Fex's just run through what ever they hit. It is quite nasty. Can you run 5-6...no I don't think so. Can you run three and a tyrant/swarmlord w/guard and 60-70+ other gribblies? Yes.

Sircyn
07-02-2010, 11:18
I had a sizeable Tyranid collection that had fallen out of use thanks to 5th edition. I got the new book, studied it for a week, then dropped about 100 quid on bringing my army up to date. I wholeheartedly recommend it. Playing the nids has been a refreshing change from the hordes of mech armies that are all over the place at the moment.

I bought four blisters of Hive Guard, a pair of Trygons and converted my now useless pair BS/VC Carnifexes into Tervigons and was able to make a mean 1500pts list that is standing up well to my local environment. I've toppled Mech Guard, Mech Marines and Logan Wing so far. I'll be able to use my existing collection to get me to 2k, meaning I've not invested a lot of cash into making my army relevant again as well as refreshing my 40k experience.

I was pleasantly surprised with the new nids, in no small part due to the massive amount of whining from Warseer setting my expectations so low. I played Nidzilla, I'm not whining, the new book is fun, interesting and can produce strong lists. Get stuck in.

LonelyPath
07-02-2010, 13:06
@ texancowboy - It's nice to see people calning down a bit huh? All the pessimism over the new Nid codex nearly got to me also. I got the codex, read it, enjoyed it and so I use it. While there are obvious choices for any list (Hive Guard, Zoans, etc) it's finding those nitch units where I really have my fun (hence my incoming Harpy conversion).

Now back on topic.

While it's true that nidzilla no longer plays as it used to, you can still field a fair amount of MC even at 1500 points. A Tyrant, Tervigon(s), Trygon/Mawloc, you can cram 4 or 5 in there. While this isn't the 8 we used to see, it's often more than enough and with Mawlocs being slightly more than a Carnifex and able to D under enemy units wreaking havoc, then vanish to do it again, it makes them a little more appealing when you would normally have to slog it with a Fex unless you take a spore, which also leaves you open to incoming fire for a turn.

My typical list has a Tyrant, Trygon Prime, Mawloc, Dr Doom (in spore), then the rest of the points filled up with termagants (the meat shield) and Stealers (the hard center). With 3 nasty units appearing in or behind enemy lines, plus 40 - 50 Termagants keeping my Stealers in the game to assault, the opponent doesn't have a easy time unless they are very good at prioritizing which target to take out first (I had a Mawloc face 2 turns of enemy shooting from and entire SM army and still survive, lol). I find people target the big stuff first (see previous perenthesis) and leave the Doom alone for a turn or 2 which is usually their undoing. People are learning though :)

But, ayway, when I got my hands on the codex and looked at t properly I ran off a mental checklist and found that I liked much of what I saw. I'm not ocerly fond of Venomthropes (not to thing really, but I will try them at some point) or Pyovores, but if you get them in games containing alot of dense terrain they could be a problem for small enemy units. However, I'll even try those out with some form of cheap conversion at some point as I want to try out as much as I can.

And I picked up some more styrofoam eggs via Ebay yesterday which should find their way to me soon, meaning I'll have another 5 possible Spores once I get the bits to ake them up.

I don't think I've been this happy with Nids since 2nd edition, lol.

texancowboy
07-02-2010, 15:32
yes! ive been thinkin bout convertin spores and i think styro eggs with make a perfect base also. i cant wait to start makin um.

Wolf 11x
07-02-2010, 15:48
I don't want to invest the (what I feel is incredibly overpriced) $25 in the codex if I'm going to have to pay a lot of money rebuilding the army. :shifty:

I do appreciate the sample lists. :evilgrin: They give me a good idea of how much I would have to spend.

Vexbane
07-02-2010, 16:45
There are a lot of options for lists in the new codex wolf. There are also a lot of units with no models that you will have to convert like: Doom, Tervigon, Swarmlord, Harpy, Parasite, mycetic spore (yeah we get a drop pod:), to name a few. There are also weapon options that you will need to convert. Mostly lash whips and boneswords for smaller models.

I do not think you will have to pay "a lot" to update your army, but if you think $25 is too much money to invest to see if you like the army or not maybe you will. Overall it matters what you like. There is no one or two lists, IMO, that will see competitive play. There are some units, Trygon/Mawloc, hive guard, etc.. that you will "need", but other than that you should be able to make a decent list from what you have.

Carnifexes suffer most from 3 things:
- Gun fex is no longer legal
- Very expensive (200+ when kitted)
- Not as good as the Trygon/Mawloc

The only reason they did this, IMO is to promote sales of the new Trygon kit which sucks.

Try some of the online stores (like http://www.thewarstore.com/) who offer discounts off of GW products. 20% I think, and shipping is a flat rate their too. This will save you a lot of money. I am lucky since my BD is around the corner and I have a lot of bits/models I can use to convert. I am using warriors to make Hive Guard so I will not have to dish out for them.

So just get the codex and see for yourself.

Hoodwink
07-02-2010, 17:41
I have found a use with the Carnifexes in my army. Running 2 in a group with an Alpha Prime using bonesword/lash whip combo. With HVC and Bioplasma, they have a much higher ranged capability, have a synapse unit attached, will strike first against anyone in base with the Prime, and can ID weaker enemies that still have multiple wounds.

They have a niche now, albeit a much smaller than theh previous "Use carnifexes because they are hella cheap and do everything" like they were before.

Plus I'm using a Tyranno, Trygon, and the 2 Carnies. Maxmizes my MC capability and I can just spam low cost troops and I move up. Moving with Onslaught too :D

FlippyMCXLI
09-02-2010, 06:40
I am exceedingly happy with the new codex, and I believe you will enjoy playing the new nids. The versatility of the new nids is incredible, I only had to do some minor adjustments to make my nids playable with the new rules (especially since Warriors get power weapons now, WOOT). I also needed to put in a couple of venomthropes, which will give your army a 5+ cover save.

I also believe they made the big bugs the way they should be, carnifexes are very tough, but not indestructible, and if they get into your opponents lines they will be able to wreak some serious havoc.

I was able to build an 1850 list and not have a single duplicate unit in my army, played a game against marines and demolished them.

Great army, play it, love it.