PDA

View Full Version : Slayer Axe's



Javol
07-02-2010, 23:43
In the Explaination for how the slayers rule works it says, You increase your strengh INCLUDING modifiers from greatweapons,
Surely this is wrong but i can't find the errata.
It makes using greatweapons on slayers only really useful vrs Empire knights and such, which when you take into account the fact that Slayers WILL get charged and HAVE zero armour makes it pretty useless :/
Can anyone send me to an errata for this (it's not on the offical site so i hold little hope) or give me a good reason for why they decided to make this rule in such a odd way (2 attacks at 4's to wound or one at 2's Seems Fair to me).

theunwantedbeing
08-02-2010, 00:09
Nope its correct.
Increase including modifiers and capped at st6.

Stops you getting silly strengths vs tougher things.
eg. st7 vs t5 chariots, st8 vs t6 dragons
A lowly 10pt slayer shouldn't be allowed to be that powerful.

Harwammer
08-02-2010, 00:28
Yep wounding everything on 2+ would be silly.

Its not just knights that GWs are better against.

E.g. vs T3 5+
Weapon atttacks x to wound x to penetrate armour = weapon efficiency rating.
XHW 2 x 3/6 x 4/6 = 4/6

GW 1 x 5/6 x 1 = 5/6

outbreak
08-02-2010, 00:35
also don't slayer characters loose the slayer axes rule when they rune up a weapon? They could end up strike first or have more attacks and still use the slayer rule to wound on 4's

T10
08-02-2010, 06:38
Yep wounding everything on 2+ would be silly.

Its not just knights that GWs are better against.

E.g. vs T3 5+
Weapon atttacks x to wound x to penetrate armour = weapon efficiency rating.
XHW 2x3/6x4/6=4/6

GW 1x5/6x1=5/6

What sort of mathematics is this?

The Red Scourge
08-02-2010, 08:56
What sort of mathematics is this?

Riddleculus ;)

xragg
08-02-2010, 09:17
Its the number of wounds each model should do. I wouldnt call it weapon effieciency necessarily, but the math isnt wrong.

Griefbringer
08-02-2010, 10:41
Its the number of wounds each model should do.

On the average and presuming that all of the attacks hit.

Harwammer
08-02-2010, 12:28
On the average and presuming that all of the attacks hit.

Pretty much. The ratio for to hit is the same for each weapon so can be safely ignored.

And yep, Xragg I probably didn't pull the best name out my ass, I thought it would be clear enough for what it represented but obviously I was wrong. Oops!

I mainly called it efficiency as it shows the relative power between the weapons in that one particular example. I didn't call it wounds predicted or anything like that as it ignores the to hit roll. More importantly, also consider I ignored the ASL rule for GWs.

Palatine Katinka
08-02-2010, 20:15
Weapon atttacks x to wound x to penetrate armour = weapon efficiency rating.
XHW 2 x 3/6 x 4/6 = 4/6

GW 1 x 5/6 x 1 = 5/6

Not quite right. When adding probability of two hits causing wounds you need to deduct the chance of both causing a wound as it has been counted twice. For example, if you had a 1/2 chance of wounding you would not always wound with two attacks. Your chance would be 1/2 + 1/2 - (1/2 x 1/2)=3/4.

So, your XHW example should be:
2 x 3/6 x 4/6 - 3/6 x 4/6 x 3/6 x 4/6 = 4/6 - 1/9 = 20/36

Still bad compared to the 5/6 (or 30/36) of the GW but if you factor in a need to hit, things could be different. Assuming 3+ to hit...

HW 4/6 x 3/6 x 4/6 = 48/216 or 0.222

XHW 2 x 48/216 - 48/216 x 48/216 = 20736/46656 - 2304/46656 = 18432/46656 (approx 85/216) or 0.395 with a 0.049 chance of causing 2 wounds.

GW 4/6 x 5/6 = 20/36 or 120/216 or 0.555

So, the chance of causing a wound against WS 3 T3 5= save troops is higher with the GW but doesn't have the small chance of causing 2 wounds. Looking at those numbers maybe I shouldn't expect so much of my troops!

xragg
09-02-2010, 01:02
He didnt say it was the chance to cause a wound, it represents how many wounds should be done (ignoring the to hit roll, assuming all attacks hit). Expected wounds and chance to cause a wound will result in 2 different numbers. Chance to wound will never go above 1, expected certainly will with enough attacks.

To illustrate, take your example of 1/2 or flipping a coin. The chance of you getting a heads result in 2 flips is 3/4 or (1/2 + 1/2 -(1/2 x 1/2)). Now the expected number of heads is 1, which is the summation of the chance of each individual trial (1/2 + 1/2). To break down the expected even more, add the results of every possible outcome and divide by the number of outcomes. So you could flip both tails; heads first, tails second; tails first, heads second; and both heads. (0 + 1 + 1 + 2)/4 = 4/4 =1.

Even with my physics/mathematics degree, I admit I struggle the most with chance, propability, and expected outcomes the most of all the various types of math. Its not that I cant do it, its just getting the terminology correct and making sure I am applying the correct techinique to the proper situation.

Palatine Katinka
09-02-2010, 01:18
Yeah, my mistake. It's been discussed via PM already.

xragg
09-02-2010, 01:55
I see how it is. Start whispering each other and leave xragg standing alone in the room by himself :(

Palatine Katinka
09-02-2010, 16:29
Aw! Sorry! *hugs*

Harwammer
09-02-2010, 19:39
soz Xragg, we just wanted to check we were on the same page rather than dragging the thread off topic!

Readers: don't forget that although GWs will create more on average against T3 5+, xhws can generate better potential wounds!

cm2008
09-02-2010, 21:10
Slayer axes and slayer ability are 2 different rules. the axes just give you an option. the slayer rule is the wound on 4+ rule