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View Full Version : Black Guard or RBT's - I'm a stuck Druchii



Smoking Frog
07-02-2006, 03:55
Having recently dabbled into starting my own Dark Elf army, I got the book, a bunch of Executioners (they look cool, really cool), warriors, and the official revision from GW. The thing that bothers me is the fact that the Black Guard are a rare choice, and so are Bolt Throwers, and I'm not going to pass 2000pts for some time (money may not be an issue, but time is!).

So, out of Reaper Bolt Throwers and the Black Guard, which would be the better option for a versatile (ie; I can use it offensively or defensively) infantry Druchii force? A core of Druchii nobility are made up of Cold One Knights, but other than that everything else is on foot (lots of spears and crossbows, executioners).

What are your opinions?

Mad Makz
07-02-2006, 04:12
RBT are more effective against more things, and fill a nice roll in any Dark Elf Army.

Taking Black Guard is generally seen as a fluff orientated choice, model orientated choice, who someone who is specificially trying to use them for the stubborn effect (which means it's likey the entire army is modelled around using them) whereas RBT can be easily slotted into any Dark Elf army.

Gorbad Ironclaw
07-02-2006, 08:15
I'd take neither really. RBTs are overestimated and overpriced for what (little) they do.

It's an expensive handgunner unit thats much, much easier to kill. There firepower isn't impressive at all, once in a blue moon they might make a credible danger to a big monster or a cavalry unit, but thats only really if you go with 3 or 4 of them, and then they eat up to many points IMO.

Not to mention, they are static, and requires the rest of you army to babysit them, or they are way to easy to take out.

All in all, for 100 points I don't think you are getting very much. You are much better of spending another 20 points and getting 10 Warriors with RXBs and shields for fire support.
They tend to dictate how the rest of the army acts if you want to keep them. And if not, then they are just to expensive to sacrifice like that.

Black Guards are some really nice models. And they can be effective, but they are quite tricky to get the best out of, and in the end your still looking at some very expensive elves. It's fun to have a unit that can reroll practically anything(with a BSB and cauldron), but for effect I'd go with more Executioners and Warriors. Best buys in the list.

Smoking Frog
07-02-2006, 08:20
That's an interesting viewpoint Gorbad, I'll consider that one.

Likewise, Mad Makz, I see your justification for one over the other, so this'll give me something to think over when I can.

More opinions and comments would be great before I make up my mind. :)

Thanks guys and gals.

Toggie
07-02-2006, 14:12
I rarely take RBT's, like Gorbad I find them too static. If I do pick a rare choice it has to be the War Hydra just for the sheer fun value. It acts as a good missile magnet and is a Terror causer. Put it with a chariot and they can do some real damage together

Flypaper
07-02-2006, 23:59
I agree with Toggie on the Hydra, with one little caveat: It's notoriously difficult to assemble*! Only get it if you're confident in your abilities to stick and pin on multiple long, top-heavy necks... :p

Of the two options presented, I'd say Black Guard. Bolt Throwers are slightly more points-efficient, but shooting is really only effective when there's enough of it to make your opponent sit up and take notice.

In the BG's favour, an infantry-based army can really use a Stubborn unit to 'pivot' around - a mobile all-but-unbreakable tarpit that happens to be decent in close combat is a great asset against spearhead units like heavy cavalry which would try to break up your lines.

Like Mad Makz said, though, they're generally considered to be slightly overcosted for what they do. :(

[*Edit: and transport, and store...!]

Trunks
08-02-2006, 02:49
If you are going to be playing an infantry oriented dark elf army that is mostly geared for close combat, the Cauldron of Blood is one of the most useful (although overlooked) Rare choices you can get. The only time it is not really useful is when facing a gunline.

You can throw it right in the middle of a static/defensive portion of your army since it helps with it's terror causing abilities (if the enemy charges nearby units they will be taking terror checks on their next turn). The ability to re-roll wounds in close combat when a unit is within 24" of it is very useful given the overall low strength scores of the dark elf army.

It doesn't sound like you are going to have witch elves, but it helps them a bit as well.

It works with offensive and defensive armies. It works best when the enemy has a need to come towards you though (if they are playing a gunline it won't be useful).

My only complaint is the current model looks pretty stupid (I use the old one with the new crew).

Smoking Frog
08-02-2006, 11:19
Hmm, i've been thinking about that Cauldron of Blood, it seems like a great little thing to help out the rest of my troops. I will mostly be facing cavalry armies and heavy close combat armies (think Bretonnians, Empire Knightly order, Chaos, all the little sub-races for a Druchii to enjoy rounding up).

The argument for the Black Guard I like. A hydra sounds like fun, but I'm not big on crazy monsters. May be one day soon though. The RBTs don't sound like a decent choice to me at a small points value army level (unless someone else wants the spotlight :) ), so I may either go Cauldron or Black Guard for the time being.

Thank you so far, any more suggestions are great, since i still have more executioners to paint, and they wont be done for a while, not the way things are going anyway.

Thanks. :)

Akuma
08-02-2006, 11:31
Don't think to much .. Rbt all the way - thay are much more versile than any other of your opptions - trust me on that after few games you will realise what diffrence can 2 rbt make ...

Trunks
08-02-2006, 18:53
If he is playing against alot of close combat oriented armies, then his executioners and knights are going to fill any role that the bolt thrower could fulfill (killing heavy armor is the biggest thing it has going for it) for the most part, especially if he gets re-rolls from a Cauldron.

Reapers are good when you don't have other troops present in your army to take out armor, otherwise they aren't really a requirement. I'm not saying they aren't a decent choice, but they are hardly an automatic pick for your rare slots.

Neknoh
08-02-2006, 20:09
I have to go with Trunks on this one, if you have Spearelves, Dark Riders, Corsairs and Witchelves for your main fighting blocks, you would want the Reapers to crack open armour, but, when you have a bunch of Executioneers and you're facing heavy fighting, Black Guard or a Cauldron makes it oh so much easier to go the can-opener rout.

With Strength 5, high WS and high M, you will kill quite a few moddles on a frontage of 7 (makes for 8 attacks, 2/3's of them hit and 2/3's or 5/6's wound, add in the few that you can reroll if you have the Cauldron and you will have something very nasty underway)

Black Guard is also special for being a Stubborn unit, they are a Tarpit unit indeed, however, it's when you think of what they can do in subsequent rounds aggainst most things without all too heavy armour that things gets nasty.

They can hold from the charge of a Bretonnian Lance if needed, then, in your turn, your Executioneers or Knights swing in for the kill.

But allone, aggainst any foot sloggers but Chosen Warriors, they will hurt, first round, if they get charged, of course, they will loose moddles, Elves with only Heavy Armour makes for bloodbath. But they will hold, and the next round, you will most likely: Strike First AND have a higher WeaponSkill than the opposing unit, also, factor in their Eternal Hatred rule and suddenly, you hit a LOT with those strength 4 attacks (of course, aggainst mean stuff such as Orcs and Chaos, they will only woun with half of what they hit... but that's enough to grind the enemy down).