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Barbarossa
21-05-2005, 21:39
Well, the new german WD just rolled in and I found an interesting little snippet in there.
There was some stuff about a little campaign on Cadia and in the closing words the author said that next month's WD will contain a new command option for IG (the "Generalstab") as well as a nice surprise for the Thousand Sons.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
21-05-2005, 21:45
Thats awesome! Especially considering i play both cadians (all infantry) and thousand sons.

Baggers
21-05-2005, 22:09
Hum sounds intresting, it is not mentioned in the New UK White Dwarf. Though from what I know its most likely new rules variations but no new models.

twisted_mentat
21-05-2005, 22:12
Generalstab? does that mean "General Staff?"

i use cadians + greenstuff for my Death Korps, and some new command models would be awsome...

Baggers
21-05-2005, 22:17
Generalstab? does that mean "General Staff?"

i use cadians + greenstuff for my Death Korps, and some new command models would be awsome...

There are no new Guard models out for a while. Its all Nids Nids Nids at the moment.

DarkWarrior1981
21-05-2005, 22:22
Generalstab? does that mean "General Staff?"


Yes, this is correct. ;)

Maxis Lithium
21-05-2005, 22:24
I don't think it will be a new set of modles, but perhaps some sort of Chapter Approved thing to replace, or be used in substatue for the command platoon.

I don't think the IG Need a new HQ choice, but if they produce something interesting, I would be more interested. Like an option to distribute special modles, like priests and medics to front line squads, where they are needed much more then in the command squad.

malika
21-05-2005, 22:28
Generalstab? does that mean "General Staff?"


Got to love German publication, they translate everything into German :D

Asher
21-05-2005, 22:44
The "Generealstab" sounds interessting. I expect a lot of characters in one squad...dunno how usefull this is however. I also wonder what this special suprise will be.

Lion El Jason
21-05-2005, 22:56
well AFAIK IG only have 1 HQ option and you can only have one of them... Thus they actually cant fill their slots without special characters or allies.

5upr3m3 h4xx0rz
21-05-2005, 23:19
Maybe the generalstab will consist of something like one senior officer and an accompanying group of 4 junior or senior officers (that would make sense as its called a generals staff, and the other officers are his staff)

Cpl. Calvin
22-05-2005, 00:11
AS has been stated, it does not look like any new models.

The blurb in the US WD says it is a new army list entry the "Imperial Guard High Commander". So I would surmise this is just a new psuedo-character to lead ones army. But new fun stuff is always welcome!

I hope that helps clear up some confusion.

boogle
22-05-2005, 12:07
this may well tie in this the character created for DOW: Winter War

t-tauri
22-05-2005, 12:21
this may well tie in this the character created for DOW: Winter War
Nothing else from Dawn of War has been released as 40k rules except the rather vague Blood Ravens rules.
It's not mentioned in the UK next issue blurb.

boogle
22-05-2005, 12:48
don't forget we are lagging behind with a lot of articles (Movie Marines being the most well known one), so we may not see this artivle for a good few months yet

Rabid Bunny 666
22-05-2005, 12:59
yeah, the UKWD misses loads of good stuff

*shakes fist at haley and sawyer equally*

Scythe
22-05-2005, 13:07
Sounds interesting. Seems like IG get new options for their HQ, which is quite nice. Maybe this allows me to use the Creed model to represent some other high commander without being a 'simple' heroic senior officer (colonel following the older dex).

Cypher
22-05-2005, 14:08
this may well tie in this the character created for DOW: Winter War
Nothing else from Dawn of War has been released as 40k rules except the rather vague Blood Ravens rules.
It's not mentioned in the UK next issue blurb.
That's true, however DoW really only had one new unit in the form of the Ork Track-bike things.

When Winter Assault was first announced a few months back it was stated that the IG would have a character unit that was intended to be very powerful (suggested as being comparable to a Marine character) and that there would be tabletop rules to follow. Which im pretty sure is what this is.

boogle
22-05-2005, 14:29
which Track-Bike things, they are Warbuggies as far as i'm aware, apparently each race is getting some new stuff (Fire Dragons for Eldar, Chaplain for Sm, not sure about Orks and Chaos

Cypher
22-05-2005, 14:48
I've just posted a thread about all this over in RM - with video. Check it out.

The commander seems to have a pair of lightning claws with a storm bolter attached to one like the talon of horus. Looks to be completely badass.

Bmaxwell
22-05-2005, 15:55
what about the 1k sons?

boogle
22-05-2005, 15:56
the surprise is, they got better in 4th Ed and they may now take steps to make them suck again

morac
22-05-2005, 18:48
GW actually mentioning 1k sons? Whats happening to me?! My whole existence is unraveling! noooooooooooo!!!

Maybe they'll attempt to fix the psycic powers (whats with marine libs being better than the followers of the God of Uber scorcery anyways?)

morac

Chris_Tzeentch
22-05-2005, 20:05
I hope they have improved the list a little. I want to collect Thousand Sons again, but I actually want to win some games too. They struggled in 40k V3, and seem to be a lot better in V4. I really hope GW dont screw them around again.

lord_blackfang
22-05-2005, 20:48
If I know Pete Haines, Thousand Sons will probably get a pts cost increase or something.

PlagueLord
22-05-2005, 21:12
Yes, but they will also get a totally fair extra rule to balance it, like............... All basic 1k sons get +1 ld for 12 points.

Inquisitor Engel
22-05-2005, 21:18
Hey all,

I tested these rules to help Andy Hoare out with his workload. I suppose since German WD has let it out of the bag, and the basic rules are out next month, I can divulge a little info. :)

What these are are a Cadian High Commander and his staff, It's very neat and a fun addition. It leaves a lot of room for fun conversions too!

The Chaos unit is 'Ahriman's Chosen' which are some sorcerors who VASTLY improve the usefulness of Thousand Sons.

Not going into specifics right now though. ;)

lord_blackfang
22-05-2005, 21:32
Just please tell me that I don't actually need to field Ahriman, He Who Does Not Even Own A Power Weapon, to use those... pretty please!

boogle
22-05-2005, 21:34
well the clue might be in the unit title

twisted_mentat
23-05-2005, 02:25
Thats just intresting...i'd never heard the phrase Generalstab before...or is the b suppost to be that german letter that stands for two s's? And it being Generalstass?

i praticily wrote a thesis about the fourms of German command in both world wars and never encounter that word ever...and some of those books used german as much as it could.

I wish i could covert a better Krieg Commander, but none of the current guard command models really lend them to what i want to to create...

shutupSHUTUP!!!
23-05-2005, 03:32
The Imperial Captain, from the expansion pack to 40k Dawn of War PC game. GW said they would make a model of him.

neXus6
23-05-2005, 03:51
Hmm...Ahriman's Chosen, naturally I'll wait until I see the rules before I set my views in stone but they are going to have to be pretty damn good to make filling your 1 lord choice with Ahriman (not only powerweapon less but Invulnerable Save less if I remember correctly) worth it. The group as a whole will have to be better than just taking a lord and some chosen/more normal marines/1K Son terminators and it's only helpful if it's a viable choice rather than "whenever I next get to play a 4000pt game."

Ever the optimist me. :p ;)

Maxis Lithium
23-05-2005, 05:50
Well, I'm interested, but not using Cadians, can I use it in other Guard units? Is it like a doctrin, or something? I would really like to use them in my generic guard army (the doctorins they change periodically).

Inquisitor Engel
23-05-2005, 07:00
Why is it that when I say that I'm not going into specifics, people ask for exactly that?

Lavfluris
23-05-2005, 07:31
Why is it that when I say that I'm not going into specifics, people ask for exactly that?It may have something to do with your boast of having playtested such rules? :eyebrows:

Cypher
23-05-2005, 09:10
It's like saying "dont touch that" to a five year old Engel. You know exactly what'll happen next.

Anvils Hammer
23-05-2005, 09:56
so will i get some decent rules for my IG commander who looks tougher than a marine but only has the stats of a HSO?

answer me this atleast Engel. will a close combat command squad be viable under the new rules?

neXus6
23-05-2005, 10:29
*pfft*
I've heard of wishful thinking but that last sentance is pushing it it hammer. ;)
Oh how I wish that wasn't the case but it's very unlikely CC Commands will ever make a return. Oh how I miss mine powerfisting everything on the board that reaches combat, now they have to hide or die. :(

rkunisch
23-05-2005, 10:34
Thats just intresting...i'd never heard the phrase Generalstab before...or is the b suppost to be that german letter that stands for two s's? And it being Generalstass?
Nope, it is spelled Generalstab. It is a fairly common word describing the staff at HQ in Germany military history. It not used by the current german army anymore, though.


i praticily wrote a thesis about the fourms of German command in both world wars and never encounter that word ever...and some of those books used german as much as it could.
I do not know why this is the case. Maybe as the military did grow, there was more use of the term Oberkommando. Nevertheless even in the both world wars the term Generalstab was used (look at this link (http://lexikon.freenet.de/Generalstab) or this one (http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Oberkommando/OKH.htm)).

Have fun,

Rolf.

Keravin
23-05-2005, 11:24
On the new WD forum at GW the Uk editor said:

There are always new rules in the magazine – we have a campaign for 40k coming up with new IG and Chaos HQ choices,

Which I imagine is what we're talking about.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
23-05-2005, 12:37
I already told you guys, its a lone model, the Imperial captain!

Inquisitor Engel
23-05-2005, 14:34
I already told you guys, its a lone model, the Imperial captain!

No, it's not.

The article in question are additional units for use in the 'Battle of Cadia' article in the issue preceeding the one with the rules. It's a system to allow people to recreate the 13th Black Crusade on their own, on a smaller scale. Historical refights you might say.

The Command Squad is the High Command Squad, lead by a Lord General or even a Lord Commander. (Names not statlines) It's a squad, not a man.

Oh, and it has NOTHING to do with Winter War.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
23-05-2005, 15:01
Ah ok, but their still making an Imperial Captain :p

Frodo34x
23-05-2005, 15:12
Well, I'm interested, but not using Cadians, can I use it in other Guard units? Is it like a doctrin, or something? I would really like to use them in my generic guard army (the doctorins they change periodically).
You can. Regiments don't have to use certain rules. You can even say other uniforms are the cadians fighting in the desert/snow/deathworld/on parade.


Yes, but they will also get a totally fair extra rule to balance it, like............... All basic 1k sons get +1 ld for 12 points.
:p

Maxis Lithium
24-05-2005, 06:27
thankyou, now I will wait, and see what comes out. I'm building a new regiment too, The 2nd regiment of IG. I'll keep it in mind.

BTW: What's the "Winter War?" I think I've heard of ir, but can't identify it.

C'tan of oblivion
24-05-2005, 06:38
sweet, a new chaos hq

i believe he meant warhammer 40k winter assault and thats the new expansion to warhammer 40k Dawn of war....

Barbarossa
24-05-2005, 08:15
Now that Engel mentioned it, the term "Chosen of Ahriman" was clearly printed on the back of my WD. :-/ Next time I'll try to open my eyes while reading. Additionally, the back page mentions the "Oberkommando" (=high command) of the Imperial Guard.
I heard the rumour of the lone IG commander from Dawn of War too, but if Engel clearly says 'no' then I'll tend to believe him.

twisted_mentat: What you mean is ß. Don't worry - if I wanted to use that, I would. It's really Generalstab.

Brother Munro
24-05-2005, 13:25
Correct, because Commissars and Sanctioned Psykers don't take up a slot, nor do the support squads.

Capt. Buko
24-05-2005, 15:50
True no knew "rules", but in a press release that I read from the old Portent-- it has been confirmed that IG will get a new model to represent the IG leader in the expansion of DOW. Now, if they have gone back after their anouncemtne I'm not sure. But at the time of the press release IG were going to get a new sigle mini.

boogle
24-05-2005, 16:11
don;t forget that DOW won;t be out for another 6 months or so, so we may still see the DOW Commander in the future (I would settle for the Catachan Standard bearer being release but what the hey)

Capt. Buko
24-05-2005, 17:40
From what i have read...(this was when the first announced tha game) IG was going to get a mini to represent the IG comander.

Chris_Tzeentch
24-05-2005, 17:50
So what about the Chosen Of Ahriman? Do we have to use Ahriman to field them? New minis? Are they sensibly costed?

hastur
24-05-2005, 19:48
we'll know sooner or later (sooner, pliz, plizzz)

IMO:
best : improven HQ or AC choices, with more psychic power and a 'no mutation' limitation ?
worst : a retinue for Ahriman...?

grizzly ruin
25-05-2005, 12:13
Just please tell me that I don't actually need to field Ahriman, He Who Does Not Even Own A Power Weapon, to use those... pretty please!


well the clue might be in the unit title

Well just because they are called "Ahriman's Chosen" doesn't necessarily mean you will be required to field him.

At least it's my hope that you don't...

boogle
25-05-2005, 14:28
i too hope that you don't have to take Ahriman

hood_oz
26-05-2005, 00:22
I tested these rules to help Andy Hoare out with his workload.

What these are are a Cadian High Commander and his staff, It's very neat and a fun addition. It leaves a lot of room for fun conversions too!

The Chaos unit is 'Ahriman's Chosen' which are some sorcerors who VASTLY improve the usefulness of Thousand Sons.

Lucky you! Wish MY workload consisted of too much playtesting to do.

General Staff.... why do I keep seeing the generals staff from blackadder? Hmmm, would make great conversions though!

As a old school 1k sons player, I am liking the sound of this new stuff for them, but are we expecting a new sorceror model, or is it going to be, use the existing models to represent everything... As my thousand sons are waiting for me to purchase some rhinos and a defiler, these special foot troops may come in very handy in changing my style of play. (and yet another excuse for me to dust off the army and get it back on the table)

therisnosaurus
26-05-2005, 03:39
indeed, I mean, just because the space marines are 'the emperor's chosen', it doesn't mean they have to drag the golden throne around with them now, does it?

sorry, just couldn't resist.

ReDavide
26-05-2005, 18:48
I tested these rules to help Andy Hoare out with his workload.

So if the rules suck, we can hold you personally responsible? :)

autogarybot
27-05-2005, 01:44
while i'm not a tomb kings player, i think i remember reading that tomb kings sorcerors can use spells to augment the rest of the army.. i'm reaaalllyyy hoping that's what is meant by "vastly improving the usefulness of thousand sons."

charlie_c67
27-05-2005, 11:04
Tomb Kings? What on earth has that to do with 1k sons? :wtf:

Anvils Hammer
27-05-2005, 11:14
what autogarybot is saying is that it would be cool if thousands sons sorcerers had the power to augment power armour suits, amking them faster, stronger etc, in the same way tomb kings lords can make skeletons better.

it would be cool...

Nazguire
27-05-2005, 11:15
i too hope that you don't have to take Ahriman

Agreed, taking a 200+ character mandatory to field an expensive unit in an expensive points wise army would be crippling. Better to have these chosen like unit leaders ala Wolf Guard

mostholycerebus
27-05-2005, 18:28
The Chaos unit is 'Ahriman's Chosen' which are some sorcerors who VASTLY improve the usefulness of Thousand Sons.

I love it when an army gets a broken unit instead of an army list fix. The Thousand Sons army list needs a revision as a whole, not an overpowerered band-aid unit.

I am looking forward to the fluff update though.

Scythe
27-05-2005, 18:42
Agreed. A single extra unit doesn't fix a whole army list, tough I doubt that was the intention of the unit anyway.

t-tauri
27-05-2005, 19:03
Tomb Kings? What on earth has that to do with 1k sons? :wtf:
Soul-less automata led by millenia old sorcerers. Tomb Kings are the fantasy Thousand Sons.

The basic troops of the thousand Sons are too expensive for the few advantages they get now. Two wounds-fantastic. :eyebrows:

A way to get special weapons or heavy weapons equivalents or some sort of enhancement spell for the basic Rubric marine would make them a little more viable.

devolutionary
29-05-2005, 06:25
Why is it that when I say that I'm not going into specifics, people ask for exactly that?

*offers cookies* Honestly Engel, I wouldn't have a clue. Impatience, I think. Thanks for letting us know about some new Sorceror Supremes though (sounds like a Transformer, don't it?). Now I'm even more tempted to make a 1k Sons force one day :)

grizzly ruin
29-05-2005, 07:46
The basic troops of the thousand Sons are too expensive for the few advantages they get now. Two wounds-fantastic. :eyebrows:

Yeah they get 2 wounds each at the expense of having 2/3rd less guns and armor saves.

They have troops that can't take CCWs and can only be configured for shooting, except their shooting is limited to bolters unless they want to get a single heavy bolter at half range, or a multi melta at 30 points that has AP2 instead of 1, and never gets extra penetration dice - even if you stick it in the tailpipe personally.


I wouldn't mind tht they have to rely on their sorcerers so much, if their sorcerers were anything to be relying on.

What really get's relied upon is Powerfists, Daemon Princes and Heavy support.

I do have hopes for this new unit, let's see what happens.

Frankly
30-05-2005, 15:55
I love it when an army gets a broken unit instead of an army list fix. The Thousand Sons army list needs a revision as a whole, not an overpowerered band-aid unit.

I am looking forward to the fluff update though.

Dude have you even read the new rules?

ReDavide
30-05-2005, 20:21
The Eldar trounce the Thousand Sons in the EoT campaign.

As a reward, their biggest hero gets killed.
As a punishment, we get a spanky new unit.

I love it when GW's logic works in our favor. :)


Dude have you even read the new rules?
I'm quite sure he has indeed read them. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by asking that though. Were you trying to say that the new rules have improved the Sons' effectiveness on the tabletop?

They may have gotten a bit more effective. The problems with the Thousand Sons list run deeper than their win ratio though. The list is so limited and so starkly divided between Good and Horrible units that most competitive Sons lists are 90% the same. Always playing with the same army build gets kinda tiresome. The Sons don't really play to their fluff either. Their stories are all about sorcery & trickery, not about great hidden powerfists.

That said, I love my sons, and am looking forward to this unit. :)

t-tauri
30-05-2005, 21:30
The Eldar trounce the Thousand Sons in the EoT campaign.

As a reward, their biggest hero gets killed.
As a punishment, we get a spanky new unit.

I love it when GW's logic works in our favor. :)

It's like a handicap in golf, Thousand Sons are so bad that even a trouncing was a good result. :D

hood_oz
31-05-2005, 00:01
It's like a handicap in golf, Thousand Sons are so bad that even a trouncing was a good result. :D

Well, if you look at the rather ordinary results from eye of terror for my 1k sons, they almost got a 50% win rate. That is like, for me, pretty damn good. (repeat: ALMOST 50%)

But yeah, they aren't the best on the tabletop, and an extra unit to choose from in the list will be nice. There arent that many choices to begin with. And will reflect the army background as well. (or so I hope)

Jorath
31-05-2005, 00:25
Hmm, 1k sons getting a update... would that mean Lucius will follow soon?

Chris_Tzeentch
31-05-2005, 17:55
Lets just hope whatever we get, its a bit more reasonable on the points than most of our choices.

Thousand Sonds Chosen or Possessed are never seen because they are nowhere near effective enough for their points.

I agree most Thousand Sons lists are too generic.

The list needs a overhaul.

To represent the trickery of the Thousand Sons, why not have to roll on a table before the game which has some disruptive effect on the opposition, in a similar manner to the Byzantine list in Warhammer Ancient Battles? That would work, be fluffy and easy to execute.

Nazguire
05-06-2005, 00:50
Hmm, 1k sons getting a update... would that mean Lucius will follow soon?


It would be nice. But Lucius would be hell easy to make. Get one Emps Kid Aspiring Champion, remove head, scar a plastic head to all heck, glue on head, remove pistol, model on whip made from greenstuff and thin wire and voila! Instant Lucius! :D

PlagueLord
07-06-2005, 05:49
Ok, its the 7th.... When do new WDs usually come out? My 1k Sons are waiting. ;)

john-connors
07-06-2005, 09:52
The Eldar trounce the Thousand Sons in the EoT campaign.

As a reward, their biggest hero gets killed.
As a punishment, we get a spanky new unit.

I love it when GW's logic works in our favor. :)


Actually I was under the impression that the Eldar could fight any army and assign the win to one of the Sentinel Worlds, hence they did so well compared to Thousand Son players, you only have to look at the numbers of players involved on each side, with the Eldar managing over ten times the number of players involved.

Scythe
07-06-2005, 12:34
That's acctually logical given gw's rather limited view on who can fight were. Look at the SoC fantasy campaign; the TK vs Orcs subcampaign was really messed up. Imho most campaigns are decided before they started cause some races are classed as good and others evil. Imho, in a campaign, each race should have their own individual goal and target.

Insane Psychopath
07-06-2005, 14:35
Should this not of been in the UK WD first??????

Could some one please fill me in here on the Cadain vs 1000son thing thanks

f2k
07-06-2005, 17:58
Should this not of been in the UK WD first??????

Unfortunately, these days most of the good stuff is released in the US WD first. For example, we still have to see that Movie Marines article in the UK WD…

cubbster
07-06-2005, 18:24
I always find it funny how games workshop always bring out things around the world first, before the U.K even knows about them! I suppose it is their way of trying to drum up more players around thw world, by giving more info out sooner!

Lostanddamned
07-06-2005, 19:58
Talking of movie marines, Its not even up on the website. If it is can someone direct me to it, I'd love to have a go at it.

Reinnon
07-06-2005, 20:17
from what i have seen and heard, i'm not going head over heels with joy at this new thousand son unit.

i have a horrid feeling its going to be a expensive unit thats pretty easy to kill, precisly what chosen/possessed units are!

while i agree thousand sons need a rethink (but i disagree that they are a weak army) i don't think adding more expensive choices is a good idea, what we need is a nice cheap unit that actually works (unlike horrors)

taintedarchon
08-06-2005, 21:16
I was under the impression that this was some sort of campaign unit for the Thousand Sons. I don't honestly know, but it sounded like they were specifically designed for some campaign they were going to show in White Dwarf.

But maybe they can be used elsewhere, this was just a way to reveal them. At any rate, I hope they are a decent unit, or whatever they are. Possibly it could be a list of upgrades for Thousand Son sorcerers, just to make them a little better. I think someone already suggested making them function similar to Tomb Kings with the way the magic in a Tomb Kings army is meant to enhance the Thousand Sons. (A psychic power that would allow them to fire twice in a turn would rock so unbelievably much.)

Asher
11-06-2005, 09:18
Grabbed thisone form Dakka:


Chapter Approved:
IG High Commanders. A whole list for an IG High Command HQ Group. High Commander, Grenadier Bodyguard, 0-3 Servitors, Veteran, Guardsman, and Orderly. Stats all Guardlike (High Commander with LD 10). Points are pretty good (but I don't play IG).
Orderlies are broken down into: Staff Officers, Master Astropaths, Scribe Historicus, Batman, Sage, or Pastor, each with own points and descriptions, but same stats. They also have a model shown for each, they're not NEW models.

Thousand Sons Chosen of Ahriman. Has "The Key" Psychic power where he and up to one squad of SM or Termies with the Rubric Sign within 6" of him can Deep Strike during Movement Phase, even if in base to base with other models. In other words VEIL OF DARKNESS. Decent points for the model (70) considering you can include 1-3 as a single HQ choice!

Jericho
11-06-2005, 10:28
Sounds pretty cool, Veil of Time style psychic power will be a bit of a pain in the ****, but then I just discovered the joys of Witch Huner Inquisitors with Hammer of Witches power, so I think it's all fair. Zapping his Sorcerors on 2+ while they think they're safe in combat makes me smile :D

Should be cool to see the High Commander dealie though, sounds very complicated and I seriously hope the Batman thing is a joke ;)

ReDavide
11-06-2005, 10:55
In other words VEIL OF DARKNESS.

Correction: THREE Veils of Darkness! :eek: :D

Man, that's so nice that I'm kinda suspicious of it. But if it's true, it'll be heaven. At 70 points each, it'll be easy to simply swap out my rhinos and stick the Chosen into an existing list.

and maybe, just maybe...


the Thousand Sons won't be an assault army any more

t-tauri
11-06-2005, 11:05
Should be cool to see the High Commander dealie though, sounds very complicated and I seriously hope the Batman thing is a joke ;)
Batman isn't the superhero but a guy who cleans and polishes the Commander's uniform, and makes sure he gets fed and watered. Like a personal assistant/gopher.

galrion
11-06-2005, 13:57
I received my copy of WD with the rules for the new units and was rather disappointed that they're chapter approved only for the Cadia campaign they started in the last issue and are not official additions to the army lists.

Hoshi No Koe
11-06-2005, 14:06
The "Key" power sounds like something that can finally make 1K sons really interesting to play and allow for some variation on playstyle. This might finally push me to take the step and start playing them. Too bad it's bound to a campaign but I don't think any of my friends would mind me using them.

taintedarchon
11-06-2005, 16:19
I received my copy of WD with the rules for the new units and was rather disappointed that they're chapter approved only for the Cadia campaign they started in the last issue and are not official additions to the army lists.

Yeah, I suspected this would be the case. But that's okay. At least for pick up games you can ask permission. I personally use house rules and stuff, so I don't really care.

Scythe
11-06-2005, 21:30
I received my copy of WD with the rules for the new units and was rather disappointed that they're chapter approved only for the Cadia campaign they started in the last issue and are not official additions to the army lists.

That's a shame. Sounds like these rules add a lot of character to both guard and thousand sons. Still, won't stop me form using them probably.

Agamemnon2
11-06-2005, 21:38
Awww sod it, and here I was, looking forward to something. Well, it's back to the drawing board with my Guard list.

Nazguire
12-06-2005, 02:57
Shame. It would have added a lot of vitality to the Thousand Sons...but alas, GW's attitude of "If it was cheesy it wouldn't be in the book" wins again.

galrion
12-06-2005, 03:16
Yeah, I thought it odd that they would specifically state that the rules are tested and balanced, but not make them official outside the campaign.

PlagueLord
12-06-2005, 06:45
Which WD are these rules in? I was just looking in the June US WD and didn't see them.

Agamemnon2
12-06-2005, 11:47
I guess it's because all options to make IG fun and special to play with have to suck. Remember the Abhuman doctrines (Whoo-hoo, I get to pay more for ogryns that do less)? And the Swamp fighter doctrines? Xeno mounts, at least, can pack SOME punch, but the rest of the non-codex additions to the force have had all the offensive power of a padded nerf bat.

t-tauri
12-06-2005, 12:57
I guess it's because all options to make IG fun and special to play with have to suck.
This one seemingly doesn't suck, you just can't use it. It's annoying where there's a significant investment required to use it like converting the figures, or even worse the Warhammer armies from Lustria where you have to use the special characters. A rather silly way to ensure balance.

galrion
12-06-2005, 16:29
Which WD are these rules in? I was just looking in the June US WD and didn't see them.

WD 306, July

Scythe
12-06-2005, 17:24
This one seemingly doesn't suck, you just can't use it. It's annoying where there's a significant investment required to use it like converting the figures, or even worse the Warhammer armies from Lustria where you have to use the special characters. A rather silly way to ensure balance.

Agreed. The forced use of special characters in armies is quite dubious at best. The red host and clan pestilens army lists have great potential, but are somewhat limited due their compulsory lord choice (as are the zombie pirates).

malika
12-06-2005, 18:19
The Eldar trounce the Thousand Sons in the EoT campaign.

As a reward, their biggest hero gets killed.
As a punishment, we get a spanky new unit.

I love it when GW's logic works in our favor. :)


Just wait till the new Eldar Codex comes out...I can already see all the Chaos players go :cheese:

boogle
13-06-2005, 23:57
This one seemingly doesn't suck, you just can't use it. It's annoying where there's a significant investment required to use it like converting the figures, or even worse the Warhammer armies from Lustria where you have to use the special characters. A rather silly way to ensure balance.
what i don't get is, who says that you can't use it, its out game, we can do what we like, i'm sure going to be using these rules if they are good as often as i can, but then again, my gaming partners aren't very anal in their gaming

Tadite
14-06-2005, 19:01
This is all meaningless.

If its Chapter Approved then it can be used at any time...

t-tauri
14-06-2005, 19:09
what i don't get is, who says that you can't use it, its out game, we can do what we like, i'm sure going to be using these rules if they are good as often as i can, but then again, my gaming partners aren't very anal in their gaming
It's fine with your usual group and there's normally no problem with any strangeness like trial stuff or Forgeworld. The problem comes when you encounter the more anal gamer who won't play against it because it's "only for the campaign" or the FW tank "isn't in the codex". It starts you off on the wrong foot when you have to argue the toss with your opponent before set up.

Slyracoon
14-06-2005, 19:10
Tadite: Unless of course there's a line saying "these units may only be used during the whateverit'scalled campaign", which by all accounts it does.

sulla
14-06-2005, 19:23
It's fine with your usual group and there's normally no problem with any strangeness like trial stuff or Forgeworld. The problem comes when you encounter the more anal gamer who won't play against it because it's "only for the campaign" or the FW tank "isn't in the codex". It starts you off on the wrong foot when you have to argue the toss with your opponent before set up.

Yup. But I suppose that's where "Be prepared," comes in. As long as you have substitutes ready to swap into your army, it shouldn't be a problem. Most players would be nervous about facing really rare stuff the first time up but I'm sure after a couple of games they would get to know you better and ease up. (Then again, I am in a positive mood towards mankind today.)

Barbarossa
15-06-2005, 14:18
Could someone have mercy on me and PM or mail me the rules for the IG High Command? I've moved recently, and Mail Order told me that it would be another 2 weeks until my WD would be sent. :-(

Nazguire
18-06-2005, 07:50
Could someone have mercy on me and PM or mail me the rules for the IG High Command? I've moved recently, and Mail Order told me that it would be another 2 weeks until my WD would be sent. :-(


I too would like the rules...of course I'm not sure if on Warseer it is illegal to even ask for non-published rules or not?

galrion
19-06-2005, 03:17
Its almost two pages of rules. I'm not sure how willing anyone would be to type all that up

Nazguire
19-06-2005, 06:56
Its almost two pages of rules. I'm not sure how willing anyone would be to type all that up

Because the person that would type it up for me would love me enough to do it?

Hymirl
19-06-2005, 21:33
Or hope they own a scanner..

I guess we'll just have to wait until the monkey, I mean Guy Haley stops adding editiorial 'jokes' to everyone's articles for a few minutes and actually puts something worth reading in WD. Which would be a pleasent change..

You can always tell WD's that are worth reading, they're the ones not wrapped in plastic...

Lord Icklebum
19-06-2005, 21:42
Having just picked up the new issue yesterday (after a rousing victory over a Dark Eldar friend of mine), I do have to say that the IG High Command squad is incredibly cool and something I would prefer VASTLY to what I'm forced to settle with as my command, AKA a Junior Officer w/Iron Discipline and 4 free troopers.

I especially enjoyed the sheer diversity of aides and advisors you can take. In particular I'd take 2 staff officers. The first allowing you to have every one of your vox caster models in the army count as having scanners/auspexes (Yeah, I know hooray . . . I don't even take voxes). The second allows you to reroll any Barrage scatter dice once per turn. Oh, and they're only 8 points a piece. Think of it! A reason to actually take a lot of mortars and Basilisks, (slightly) more accurate artillery support! What a concept!

Really though, I think it's a pretty killer idea, and I wish they would switch out the existing Guard command entry with this. Just make the officer has a scaleable point cost (i.e. Junior, Senior, Heroic Senior, High Command) and only allow the actual High Commander to be used in like 2000+ games or some such. It even states you can take all normal upgrades like Standard Bearer, Medic, advisors, etc. You just get even more to tool around and create something that's far more authentic and unique feeling to a real commanding officer.

Just my two pennies, I'll definately be testing this out (with opponent's consent of course) in a future game. I just gotta convert me up a fancy Commander and a batman to shine his boots until they're all pretty like. . .

Axel
19-06-2005, 22:19
The first allowing you to have every one of your vox caster models in the army count as having scanners/auspexes (Yeah, I know hooray . . . I don't even take voxes).

With the MW of 10 vox will (for me) finally make sense.

Its sad that the preacher (prediger) cannot be equipped with an eviscerator. Somehow most options (like scribe) make the troop good for cc, but not for long range fire. No heavy weapons with either soldiers or servitors :-(

Lord Icklebum
19-06-2005, 22:49
A few things that I would suggest as add-ons would be an 0-1 Ogryn Bodyguard with the ability to place hits that would normally strike the commander (even in close combat!) go to the Ogryn, which is then resolved against his toughness. Have him cost as much as ogryn with 5 pt. carapace armor upgrade, and then give him a 4+ save and viola, you got yourself a new reason to dust old Nork Deddog off for action. Granted this would perpetuate the whole "Good for CC, not for Shooty Shooty", but you can't win them all.

One other idea that I could see as useful would be something akin to an Imperial Engineer/ Mechanicus Adept. If on the board, he stays in constant contact with the Armor crews and advises them on battlefield repairs and maintenance. If one is on the board you may re-roll ONE Glancing OR Penetrating hit damage result, you must accept the second result. Having two would allow you to ignore the first weapon destroyed or immobilised result of the game, regardless of what suffered it. Maybe a bit powerful, so you'd have to price them accordingly, but I think it'd be a great addition for treadheads.

Yet again, I babble. I just have a rather large amount of things to put out there and a relatively short period of time in which to put them all down and onto the forum, only having internet access at work on certain days. . . So anyhow, that's all from me.

sulla
20-06-2005, 09:00
You can always tell WD's that are worth reading, they're the ones not wrapped in plastic...

Hehe, that's a truism for magazines in general isn't it?

BTW, looking forward to the 'porting thousand sons...Everyone I know would let me play them...

Nazguire
20-06-2005, 10:54
Hehe, that's a truism for magazines in general isn't it?

BTW, looking forward to the 'porting thousand sons...Everyone I know would let me play them...


Teleporting Thousand Sons is a blessing for any and all Thousand Sons players. The fact that they are only useable in Chapter Approved is a minor annoyance, as most people with half a brain will let you use them.

It solves so many mobility issues and tactical irritations and allows the humble Chaos Thousand Sons squad to have some use. :D

boogle
20-06-2005, 16:18
guess we got stuffed again in the UK, no IG Commanders this month (although I should be able to read the rules for my birthday next month)

Scythe
20-06-2005, 18:07
guess we got stuffed again in the UK, no IG Commanders this month (although I should be able to read the rules for my birthday next month)

Damn, I was really looking forewarth to the high command rules. UK is really behind with most articles lately.

Tzeentch2003
20-06-2005, 18:15
Teleporting Thousand Sons is a blessing for any and all Thousand Sons players. The fact that they are only useable in Chapter Approved is a minor annoyance, as most people with half a brain will let you use them.

It solves so many mobility issues and tactical irritations and allows the humble Chaos Thousand Sons squad to have some use. :D

Unless I missed something reading the article, the Chosen are just like any other Chapter Approved units. Fully official rules, do not require opponent's permission. I didn't see anything in there about them being limited to a specific campaign or anything like that.

That isn't to say they weren't there and I missed them, so far as I can tell they can be used without restriction.

T2k3

t-tauri
20-06-2005, 18:56
All the reports from the US say that they're restricted to the campaign which is just going to restrict them to games where you know the opponent.

Tzeentch2003
20-06-2005, 21:20
All the reports from the US say that they're restricted to the campaign which is just going to restrict them to games where you know the opponent.

It was the US version of WD I was reading (living in the US and all), so unless I just didn't see where they wrote that those reports are inaccurate.

T2k3

EDIT: I re-read the article when I got home and found the section limiting it to the Cadia campaign. Mea culpa.

Axel
21-06-2005, 00:03
The German version of the WD explicitely states that the Staff is this campaign only, and you need the permission for any other use (and anyone denying that grant will be haunted by bad dicing).

RandomZombie
21-06-2005, 01:19
Im loving the chosen of Ahriman! thse things are awesome!

foehammer888
21-06-2005, 03:23
Yeah, but as neither of them is very powerful or very scarry, I don't think you'll have too much trouble convincing people to let you use them. However, why make things "legal for a campaign"? Either make them completely legal or not. Don't give us hope and then smack us back down.

On another note, it hasn't been mentioned yet, but the High commander can't be taken as the required HQ choice for an IG army, so you need a normal command squad and the high commander.

Foehammer

Nazguire
21-06-2005, 08:40
These units should be legal in any game. They are not over powered nor are they useless but a very useful addition to the Thousand Sons...

Why oh why GW must you treat us customers like Earl the dude in coma of a soapie...ready to wake up only for his rellies to find out he has a pineapple sized tumour in his brain?

Amon Ra
21-06-2005, 11:13
Can the Chosen take wargear, or are they limited to troop like options ?

Scythe
21-06-2005, 12:48
These units should be legal in any game. They are not over powered nor are they useless but a very useful addition to the Thousand Sons...

Why oh why GW must you treat us customers like Earl the dude in coma of a soapie...ready to wake up only for his rellies to find out he has a pineapple sized tumour in his brain?

Maybe they will be... in time. Still, I can't understand why some test rules are legal and others are not. It doesn't make sense.

charlie_c67
21-06-2005, 12:58
Maybe they will be... in time. Still, I can't understand why some test rules are legal and others are not. It doesn't make sense.

Because for rules like this you will get some people clamouring to have a mini released NOW, THIS VERY INSTANT COS GW ARE TIGHT AND LOVE SM'S MORE THAN MY ARMY COS I DON'T HAVE THIS MINI (in an appropriate chav-like voice), just because it's an option.

grizzly ruin
21-06-2005, 13:27
Because for rules like this you will get some people clamouring to have a mini released NOW, THIS VERY INSTANT COS GW ARE TIGHT AND LOVE SM'S MORE THAN MY ARMY COS I DON'T HAVE THIS MINI (in an appropriate chav-like voice), just because it's an option.

I think TS players would be ecstatic to simply have these rules totally legal, and screw a mini release.

GW both the company and the developers rarely seem to have any concept of how players actually feel about things.

x-esiv-4c
21-06-2005, 13:39
Why in gods name would these units be restricted to campaign / permission use only?

Insane Psychopath
21-06-2005, 14:03
Just to ask what is this all about????

Just I seen this in so many site with nothing much. I thought this might of been in the UK WD but it not????. Could some one explane all this about the 1000's & Guards.

Sorry if it all been said somwhere but come on 12 pageies to find one thing.

Thank for anyone help

IP

Axel
21-06-2005, 19:28
Another look into the book seems to indicate that the IG general staff is restricted to campaing only, while the TS chosen are explicitely declared legal as an additional HQ choice for ANY chaos space marine force.

Well, so much for the guard again :-(

It also seems that this article was published in the US and German WD, but did not make it to the UK, which is really weired.

boogle
21-06-2005, 20:07
its in WD 307 in the UK

Hoshi No Koe
21-06-2005, 20:13
@ Insane Psychopath

The Chosen of Ahriman are a new unit for Chaos space marines, which can use a psychic power that would supposedly work like the Veil of Darkness.
The High commander is a new HQ option for guard.

Yeah, the article will be in the next Uk WD.

If the Chosen are explicitly listed as always being legal, I'll probably be starting a 1K sons army finally. It was the restriction of tactical options for them that always put me off playing them.
Too bad for the IG, but I must say that the High commander should only be mostly suited for large games anyway.

t-tauri
21-06-2005, 20:17
its in WD 307 in the UK
Nope. According to 307 it's in 308 next month, and it only mentions the guard.

Insane Psychopath
21-06-2005, 20:37
I'll try get a copy of the UK WD on Thur just make some bulls*** exsue that I will not be in on the Fri to pick it up & that I need to read it.

Also thank for the info people

Red Scorpion
21-06-2005, 21:31
Looking forward to the rules for the Generals Staff, I've been looking for something interesting to add to my guard force. Thats why i just started a nice big last chancers unit from my random guard and ganger metals:)
Chris

Jal'knock
21-06-2005, 22:07
I suppose they're probably going to release models with rules along the lines of Daemonhunters retinues.

galrion
21-06-2005, 22:26
Another look into the book seems to indicate that the IG general staff is restricted to campaing only, while the TS chosen are explicitely declared legal as an additional HQ choice for ANY chaos space marine force.

Well, so much for the guard again :-(

It also seems that this article was published in the US and German WD, but did not make it to the UK, which is really weired.

"These characters may be used over the course of the campaign and do not require your opponent's consent. However, these rules are only official within the context of the campaign and are not an official addition to the respective armies." pg. 74 of US WD 306

Xander-K
21-06-2005, 23:18
is there a link for a picture to these chosen of ahriman? I can't seem to find anything on the warhammer site.

Asher
21-06-2005, 23:22
is there a link for a picture to these chosen of ahriman? I can't seem to find anything on the warhammer site.

No minis, just rules.

Tadite
22-06-2005, 04:58
"These characters may be used over the course of the campaign and do not require your opponent's consent. However, these rules are only official within the context of the campaign and are not an official addition to the respective armies." pg. 74 of US WD 306


That is easily the stupidest thing I have ever seen GW do. Why on earth do you make a Chapter Approved that is NOT CHAPTER APPROVED???

f2k
22-06-2005, 07:05
That is easily the stupidest thing I have ever seen GW do. Why on earth do you make a Chapter Approved that is NOT CHAPTER APPROVED???
It does seem that this is the current trend…

Lustria armies, Zombie Pirates, IG High Command and Chosen of Ahriman… Seems that GW is moving away from the generic army list format and towards campaign oriented lists.
A shame really, many of these lists are rather nice – but since they’re not “official” I doubt that we’re going to see them in widespread use…

Scythe
22-06-2005, 09:19
It does seem that this is the current trend…

Lustria armies, Zombie Pirates, IG High Command and Chosen of Ahriman… Seems that GW is moving away from the generic army list format and towards campaign oriented lists.
A shame really, many of these lists are rather nice – but since they’re not “official” I doubt that we’re going to see them in widespread use…

The fantasy Lustria lists are, by all means, official armies as such. They only require a special character as compulsory choice.

Davefromhull
22-06-2005, 09:52
I know i shouldnt ask but...... would anyone send me (even a summary) of the new rules? I am really annoyed that the UK have to wait so long for them.

Thanks

mostholycerebus
22-06-2005, 10:29
The fact that the Chosen are Independent Characters really lessens their use. I'm thinking their only decent role might be as a way to hop Rubric terminators around. As IC's they NEED the 2+ save, and deep striking plain Rubrics is pretty lame.

Hoshi No Koe
22-06-2005, 13:18
I'll try get a copy of the UK WD on Thur just make some bulls*** exsue that I will not be in on the Fri to pick it up & that I need to read it.

Also thank for the info people

I meant the next one as I've already got WD 306, it'll be in WD 307, the one they release at the end of July.

Democritus
22-06-2005, 14:33
I got the 307 UK issue here, and the Imp Guard Command is announced for next issue (308UK August issue, available from end of July). No mention of Ahriman's Chosen, although they say

*Chapter Approved - A campaign set during the 13th Black Crusade, including rules for Imperial Guard High Commanders.

That leaves the option that the rules for Ahriman's Chosen will be in there too..

Praetorian
22-06-2005, 14:55
Good scouting- coolness about to strike for me first in a log time. Any other hints or pics? :D

f2k
22-06-2005, 17:56
The fantasy Lustria lists are, by all means, official armies as such. They only require a special character as compulsory choice.
Yes, they are ”official”. But most people that I play against have a strict “No Special Characters” rule. So, mandatory special characters = no play. And that goes for most tournaments too I believe…

taintedarchon
23-06-2005, 03:11
I think I am just going to stick with my house rules for Thousand Sons. I like them, they don't give me some unfair edge to the army that I don't deserve, and with the benefits they get in my rules, they also have a penalty. I like that a bit better than a band-aid unit.

Scythe
23-06-2005, 14:06
Yes, they are ”official”. But most people that I play against have a strict “No Special Characters” rule. So, mandatory special characters = no play. And that goes for most tournaments too I believe…

Most people and tournaments here tend to make exceptions for armies with complusory choices, like the armies with compulsory characters mentioned. But that could be just local...

Wimvh
23-06-2005, 14:55
I got the 307 UK issue here, and the Imp Guard Command is announced for next issue (308UK August issue, available from end of July). No mention of Ahriman's Chosen, although they say

*Chapter Approved - A campaign set during the 13th Black Crusade, including rules for Imperial Guard High Commanders.

Cool, I missed that one!

mortus
23-06-2005, 17:00
[QUOTE=But that could be just local...[/QUOTE]

More importantly are you Local? This is a local tournament for local players........ ;)


Serious note, both rule sets sound really good, but the 1000 sons gets the edge with the teleport everyturn, being a real game winner.

I play against the necrons and that veil of darkness is a real headache waiting to happen.

Can't wait to eyeball the rules.

Hoshi No Koe
24-06-2005, 15:39
It is risky to use one though. I've used VoD with Necrons a couple of times, and an unlucky scatter can cost you the game. With up to three on the table, and the army's overall high points cost, the chance to lose a lot of points to an unlucky roll would be greatly increased. Not to mention that it's a Psychic power and that it can fail or be cancelled just when you really need it...

Still, I think it's a very positive development to have acces to it for 1Ksons as it would vary the playing styles available to them enormously.

Scythe
24-06-2005, 16:37
But then if you really needed it you could position 3 characters to try it....;)

mostholycerebus
25-06-2005, 18:37
It is risky to use one though. I've used VoD with Necrons a couple of times, and an unlucky scatter can cost you the game.

Are you talking about scattering off the board? Because if you merely scatter to a bad position, burn a Thrall and do it again.

Hoshi No Koe
25-06-2005, 18:46
I hadn't even thought of a thrall yet. Could come in very handy indeed, but what I had in mind was scattering of the board or into an ennemy unit.

Scythe
25-06-2005, 22:39
Are you talking about scattering off the board? Because if you merely scatter to a bad position, burn a Thrall and do it again.

That's a nasty idea indeed. However don't underestimate the chance of scattering on enemy units, especially when trying to get within 12" of a horde army, which can really be a pain at sometimes.

I play necrons myself, but often find me holding back the veil if I take it until it is absolutely needed to reposition my immortals/warriors. To do the trick every time is just asking for problems in my experience, especially when it concerns such expensive troops like necrons/ thousand sons.

elfatto
26-06-2005, 02:41
How would using a thrall with the key work? Would it be:

-You land somewhere you don't want to be, so you burn a thrall and warp someplace else?
-But this wouldn't work if you scatter off the board or ontop of an enemy unit because the Thousand sons are effectively destroyed and thus can't burn the thrall.
-I don't know why I did this point form because I can't think of any other way :p.

Chris_Tzeentch
26-06-2005, 11:36
@ Insane Psychopath

The Chosen of Ahriman are a new unit for Chaos space marines, which can use a psychic power that would supposedly work like the Veil of Darkness.

If the Chosen are explicitly listed as always being legal, I'll probably be starting a 1K sons army finally. It was the restriction of tactical options for them that always put me off playing them.


So are the Chosen Of Ahriman basically individual aspiring champions of tzeentch (with appropriate wargear options) and "The Key" psychic power for 70 points each, with 1-3 models per HQ choice?

Tyrannus
26-06-2005, 13:41
So are the Chosen Of Ahriman basically individual aspiring champions of tzeentch (with appropriate wargear options) and "The Key" psychic power for 70 points each, with 1-3 models per HQ choice?


They have the stats of Chaos Lt.s but otherwise are as you say

elfatto
27-06-2005, 03:42
They are also independent characters, so they aren't tied down to being in a squad. But they also can't hide behind squad members in combat either.

Karlon
27-06-2005, 04:30
Boooo. The deep striking every turn is what makes my 13th company original, and now someone else comes along and does it better. Im sad.

Its a good trick though, and will definately up the strength of the list quite considerably. It will suck if its tied to that campaign though and is not available for regular play.

Scythe
27-06-2005, 10:28
Boooo. The deep striking every turn is what makes my 13th company original, and now someone else comes along and does it better. Im sad.


Well, necrons did it even before 13th company appeared.... altough not better...

Chris_Tzeentch
27-06-2005, 17:10
Sounds impressive. Should allow some good modelling opportunities, and open up the available tactics. I don't really care if it is limited to campaigns only, I am going to use it as a matter of course.

Nazguire
28-06-2005, 11:37
Boooo. The deep striking every turn is what makes my 13th company original, and now someone else comes along and does it better. Im sad.

Its a good trick though, and will definately up the strength of the list quite considerably. It will suck if its tied to that campaign though and is not available for regular play.


Which it is, as is stated in the White Dwarf, though it does encourage you to get players consent. :p

Great Harlequin
28-06-2005, 21:43
Its a good trick though, and will definately up the strength of the list quite considerably. It will suck if its tied to that campaign though and is not available for regular play.
It would aid a Thousand Son player immensley. They need something to beef them up to be honest! :p Tzeentch has IMO always been the weak point of the Chaos army codex.

Hoshi No Koe
28-06-2005, 22:01
The one thing Necron have over 13th co and 1k sons is that it's not a psychic power. So, no perils of the warp or risk of being cancelled.

Scythe
28-06-2005, 22:38
Which is quite nice imho seeing the number of librarians (eg psychic hoods) around lately...

cyndre
29-06-2005, 05:50
How would using a thrall with the key work? Would it be:

-You land somewhere you don't want to be, so you burn a thrall and warp someplace else?
-But this wouldn't work if you scatter off the board or ontop of an enemy unit because the Thousand sons are effectively destroyed and thus can't burn the thrall.
-I don't know why I did this point form because I can't think of any other way :p.

I believe that you would still have to finish the first deep strike before sacrificing the porr thrall and then warp again. But I could be wrong about the way thralls work, since i don't know much about chaos.
BTW how i think they work is that it allow a sorcerer to use a second power this turn (?)

Brusilov
29-06-2005, 22:58
Don't know if this was mentioned before (couldn't bother to go over 15+ pages) but here is how the IG High Command functions in its broad lines :

1) IG officer (regular Heroic Senior Officer but Ld10)
2) Grenadiers (Stormtroopers)
4) Veterans (from regular command squad), including command vox-caster and personal banner (company banner)
5) regular guardsmen (with up to 4 special weapons
6) Combat servitors
7) retinue including Astropath (walking psychic hood), Servants (human shields), Munitorum officers (nasty guys who allows you to re-roll stuff like ordnance die or Ld test), sage (improved shooting), historians (give your troops courage, that is counter-charge)...
8) up to 11 members in addition to the officer, works with doctrines, councillors (Commissars, Priests, Sanctioned psykers allowed) and can be mounted in Chimera

Needless to say, I'm already working on getting one, just for the fun. Lord General Guderian of the Death Korps of Krieg will finally come to the battlefield

Delicious Soy
30-06-2005, 02:25
I like these new rules, but I'm curious as to why they were made campaign only. In the case of the IG High Command, you already need to take a regular HQ before you can take it, I don't see how this would screw with an ordinary game. Unless GW is afraid of having every Lord General take the field because its 'unfluffy'. THen again, where was their concern when SM's became their most hocked product?

Brusilov
30-06-2005, 06:22
IIRC they're not campaign only. You need your opponents' agreement to use them outside the context of EoT, that's all...

boogle
30-06-2005, 08:02
i am really looking forward to seeing these rules in print so i can get cracking on doing them

Scythe
30-06-2005, 09:27
Don't know if this was mentioned before (couldn't bother to go over 15+ pages) but here is how the IG High Command functions in its broad lines :

1) IG officer (regular Heroic Senior Officer but Ld10)
2) Grenadiers (Stormtroopers)
4) Veterans (from regular command squad), including command vox-caster and personal banner (company banner)
5) regular guardsmen (with up to 4 special weapons
6) Combat servitors
7) retinue including Astropath (walking psychic hood), Servants (human shields), Munitorum officers (nasty guys who allows you to re-roll stuff like ordnance die or Ld test), sage (improved shooting), historians (give your troops courage, that is counter-charge)...
8) up to 11 members in addition to the officer, works with doctrines, councillors (Commissars, Priests, Sanctioned psykers allowed) and can be mounted in Chimera

Needless to say, I'm already working on getting one, just for the fun. Lord General Guderian of the Death Korps of Krieg will finally come to the battlefield

Sounds very nice indeed. Is there any unit size limit? From this, I understand the unit could get quite large indeed.

Barbarossa
30-06-2005, 11:34
Sounds very nice indeed. Is there any unit size limit? From this, I understand the unit could get quite large indeed.
You can have 12 men maximum without even thinking about advisors. Most henchmen are 0-3, but soldiers, veterans and stormtroopers aren't.

Nurgling Wiggy
30-06-2005, 14:39
This is old news. 'GeneralStab' or 'General Staff' is simple a new rule set in one of the CA's. It just allows IG players to take a different command squad that incorperates a Higher or the highest ranked officer and his personal staff.

x-esiv-4c
30-06-2005, 14:42
The Chosen's "Key" ability is pretty damn amazing! ( Wish deathguard had something like that :) )

Shebnar
30-06-2005, 14:46
Hello everyone! :)


I love the new TS unit, but I'd like to ask for clarifications about how it works...
(I'm a total n00b at WH 40K, so I apologize if my questions may sound stupid... :( )

1) Does 'The Key' power let you Deep Strike just an unit with the Rubric Sign or an unit with the Mark of Tzeentch (Horrors, Possessed...)?

2) Can an unit lead by a Sorcerer (who has not the Rubric Sign) be considered an 'Unit with the Rubric Sign'?

I still don't own the WD, it will pass some time before it will be translated in my country (or before I purchase it through eBay! ;) ). Thanks!

grizzly ruin
30-06-2005, 14:56
Hello everyone! :)

Hi :)





1) Does 'The Key' power let you Deep Strike just an unit with the Rubric Sign or an unit with the Mark of Tzeentch (Horrors, Possessed...)?

Only on "squads with the Rubric sign". So no for possesed, chosen etc.



2) Can an unit lead by a Sorcerer (who has not the Rubric Sign) be considered an 'Unit with the Rubric Sign'?

This is still up for debate.

My personal opinion is yes. But that is an opinion only, and means nothing.

boogle
30-06-2005, 16:05
This is old news. 'GeneralStab' or 'General Staff' is simple a new rule set in one of the CA's. It just allows IG players to take a different command squad that incorperates a Higher or the highest ranked officer and his personal staff.
thanks for your 1st post, pity is a spamming one

Scythe
30-06-2005, 16:32
You can have 12 men maximum without even thinking about advisors. Most henchmen are 0-3, but soldiers, veterans and stormtroopers aren't.

Ahh, thanks. So with advisors added, you could probably get around 15 models... Quite a large unit for imperial guard indeed. I take it you can freely mix soldiers/ veterans/ stormtroopers and are not limited to 1 type?

Brusilov
30-06-2005, 18:15
I did mention the squad was limited to 11 members in addition to the officer :p
And you certainly can freely mix grenadiers, guardsmen, veterans and advisors in the squad. After all the retinue of high ranking IG officers are quite heterogenous (probably like Inquisitors they picked some of them during their career)

Axel
30-06-2005, 18:34
I like these new rules, but I'm curious as to why they were made campaign only. In the case of the IG High Command, you already need to take a regular HQ before you can take it, I don't see how this would screw with an ordinary game.

With master vox you can virtually push the whole IG to Morale 10 with an HQ. Add three staff members and all these troops have an auspex and you can always reroll one ordonance template (eg one of these nasty Basilisks) and a reserve roll. I think that all this for a meagre 100 pts may give the IG a mighty boost that we will see far too often if its a common rule.

BTW: Using the Damocles upgrade for a Chimera might yield an appropriate command vehicle :-)

Scythe
01-07-2005, 14:13
I did mention the squad was limited to 11 members in addition to the officer :p


Oops....

:D


With master vox you can virtually push the whole IG to Morale 10 with an HQ.

Yeah, but that costs way to much points since you need voxes for each guard squad. The 12" Ld 10 command radius with reroll from banner is cheaper and good enough for me.

I haven't read the rules, but they seem to add a lot of character to an IG army, while adding a little increased effectivness here and there, but still for a price pts wise. They don't sound unbalancing for normal games so far.

NakedFisherman
01-07-2005, 19:07
How could you write a thesis on the German military in both world wars and never come across the word 'Stab'?


Thats just intresting...i'd never heard the phrase Generalstab before...or is the b suppost to be that german letter that stands for two s's? And it being Generalstass?

i praticily wrote a thesis about the fourms of German command in both world wars and never encounter that word ever...and some of those books used german as much as it could.

I wish i could covert a better Krieg Commander, but none of the current guard command models really lend them to what i want to to create...

Shebnar
01-07-2005, 19:39
Thank you for your answer, grizzly ruin! :)

Now, how would you optimize the Chosen of Ahriman?

Deep Striking every turn is good, but it is only applied to measy rounds of bolter shots, and not to Gauss Blasters (VoD + Immortals is a much more powerful combo)...
It is useless to arm your Chosen ('normal' Chosen) with lascannons, combiweapons, reaper autocannons because they have not the Rubric Sign, and the 'Key' doesn't work with them.
You can upgrade TS squads to Terminator squads as an Elite choice, but they cannot change their combibolters...(and it is quite expensive as an option...)

I think that the only advantage of the Chosen of Ahriman remains the fact that they let you evade hth combat, which is still very good.

But the main problem for the TS remains the same: it’s an army that relies too much on bolter fire. :(

elfatto
01-07-2005, 20:01
You can tool up the CoA so that it can use the key and fire off a second psychic power (BoC, WoC come to mind) right after. Just buy a familiar and some thralls. Not as good as gauss fire and it gets pretty expensive, but you're not restricted to just bolter shots.

Keying also really helps with one of the TS's biggest weaknesses: Capturing objectives that are even moderately far away.

grizzly ruin
01-07-2005, 20:30
You can tool up the CoA so that it can use the key and fire off a second psychic power (BoC, WoC come to mind) right after. Just buy a familiar and some thralls. Not as good as gauss fire and it gets pretty expensive, but you're not restricted to just bolter shots.


This is why I think that if you can't use the Key on squads that have ACs in them, it's really not that useful of an ability in anyway.

Buying a familiar, BoC and then thralls is both incredibly expensive (if you multiple Chosen of Ahriman - CoA) and now your CoA can be shot as they form a unit with the thralls.

Making it not really worth it at all.

Starchild
01-07-2005, 20:36
Tomb Kings? What on earth has that to do with 1k sons? :wtf:
The Tomb King models can be used to represent Tzeentch 'Lost and the Damned' units: Ushabti for big mutants and skeletons for regular mutants.

I don't really see the point of using a pure Thousand Sons army. They really need the support of other units in the CSM Codex. However, I can imagine Thousand Sons working very well in a LATD army.

Thousand Sons are supposed to be rare, since they have no way to replace their casualties. At least, that's what I interpret from the fluff.

mostholycerebus
01-07-2005, 20:50
Now, how would you optimize the Chosen of Ahriman?

IMO, their Independent Character status and high cost mean fielding only 1 or 2 in a standard sized army. Any more and you are taking away too many points from our already-too-few units. Because they can't hide behind wounds, I like to give them termie armor. I would probably ony field one in termie armor, and have him bounce around a squad of rubric termies. Depending on your list, either with a Kai-gun for shooty support, or tooled up for CC.

Axel
01-07-2005, 22:49
Yeah, but that costs way to much points since you need voxes for each guard squad. The 12" Ld 10 command radius with reroll from banner is cheaper and good enough for me.

5 pts for an increase from 7 to 10 does not seem expensive to me. And you don`t have to give it all units, only those who might need it.

Personally I will include this unit as a "command from behind staff" in the 100pt version, just to benefit from these boni. Command from behind is what a good staff officer should do, and not endanger the efficency of his army by expsing himself to enemy action (well, at least they claim so...).

The other option is to of course to make it a full sized unit who can become a nice cc-monster, not unlike the WH/DH-HQs. Good luck if you try it this way, and please report back the results :-)

cpl_hicks
02-07-2005, 00:14
Hum sounds intresting, it is not mentioned in the New UK White Dwarf. Though from what I know its most likely new rules variations but no new models.

dont know if this counts as bringing up a old topic but the new imperial guard command is in White dwarf 308, i cannot remember the proper name for it, something like great commanders or something, i havent got WD307 on my desk, and the white dwarf next issus page hasent been updated

Nazguire
02-07-2005, 00:45
The Tomb King models can be used to represent Tzeentch 'Lost and the Damned' units: Ushabti for big mutants and skeletons for regular mutants.

I don't really see the point of using a pure Thousand Sons army. They really need the support of other units in the CSM Codex. However, I can imagine Thousand Sons working very well in a LATD army.

Thousand Sons are supposed to be rare, since they have no way to replace their casualties. At least, that's what I interpret from the fluff.


Thousand Sons can replace casualties but its hard from what I can tell. They have Thrall Apprentices, which are apprentices to the Sorcerors. I'm going to assume that this means after their apprenticeship is finished then they are implanted or mutated into a Thousand Son and given a suit of Power Armour.
Hard to replace casualties yes, but giving the TS casualties is just as hard. To destroy them you have to use a weapon that destroys the soul like a Daemon weapon or a Nemesis Force Weapon for example :eek:


The point of a Thousand Sons army is simple. You like the background of the Thousand Sons, you like the models of the Thousand Sons, you play as the Thousand Sons :D :)

mostholycerebus
02-07-2005, 01:25
Supposedly there is a BL novel where a TS sorcerer casts a 'minor rubric' and summons a Thousand Son marine soul to a recently discarded suit of marine armor.


The point of a Thousand Sons army is simple. You like the background of the Thousand Sons, you like the models of the Thousand Sons, you play as the Thousand Sons :D :)

You forgot: "You don't mind losing every single game against an opponent of equal skill" and "You enjoy playing with a severe handicap"

Nazguire
02-07-2005, 01:50
Supposedly there is a BL novel where a TS sorcerer casts a 'minor rubric' and summons a Thousand Son marine soul to a recently discarded suit of marine armor.



You forgot: "You don't mind losing every single game against an opponent of equal skill" and "You enjoy playing with a severe handicap"



Then it is simple. Get more skill and don't play with a handicap :D

mostholycerebus
02-07-2005, 02:20
don't play with a handicap :D

Then I wouldn't be playing Thousand Sons...

Nazguire
02-07-2005, 04:06
Then I wouldn't be playing Thousand Sons...

Ahhh you're having what I call "GW Screwed TS Syndrome"

Ok sir, lie down and tell me your problems...what is it that makes you have these reactions to the Thousand Sons? It's ok, I will listen.

***Scratches at notebook***

boogle
02-07-2005, 09:20
5 pts for an increase from 7 to 10 does not seem expensive to me. And you don`t have to give it all units, only those who might need it.

Personally I will include this unit as a "command from behind staff" in the 100pt version, just to benefit from these boni. Command from behind is what a good staff officer should do, and not endanger the efficency of his army by expsing himself to enemy action (well, at least they claim so...).

The other option is to of course to make it a full sized unit who can become a nice cc-monster, not unlike the WH/DH-HQs. Good luck if you try it this way, and please report back the results :-)


the only problem with this is the fact that unless they are hiding somehere, the enemy will be trying to pass those LD tests to shoot the hell out of the squad

Triceron
02-07-2005, 09:51
WOW the IG command sounds very intruiging! I love the concept of Inquisitor-style retinues, where you can add individual troops to a squad to boost the effectiveness of the whole. Makes it feel very RPG. Definately can't wait to see the models for it, though I'm a little disappointed it's meant for Cadians only.

It does have potential though, perhaps if they could expand on more command attachment units and give a different general for the others Doctrines.

Axel
02-07-2005, 11:00
the only problem with this is the fact that unless they are hiding somehere, the enemy will be trying to pass those LD tests to shoot the hell out of the squad

Thats the reason why I will likely only use in their "staff"-function, to use the higher Morale and the effects on infilitration detection, reserve rolls and ordonance. I can keep them as far back as possible. Of course they will then become a fine target vor deep strikes, but imho thats fluffy :-)
Using such a unit for cc will invite lots of fire, and is probably not worth it in an IG army. The inquisition may get away with it, for there are more CC-units to cull.


Triceron, from the looks of the article there are no models planned for the GHQ, its conversion time.

Scythe
02-07-2005, 19:34
The Tomb King models can be used to represent Tzeentch 'Lost and the Damned' units: Ushabti for big mutants and skeletons for regular mutants.

I don't really see the point of using a pure Thousand Sons army. They really need the support of other units in the CSM Codex. However, I can imagine Thousand Sons working very well in a LATD army.

Hey, that's a rather cool idea. I never thought of them this way...


5 pts for an increase from 7 to 10 does not seem expensive to me. And you don`t have to give it all units, only those who might need it.

But you also need to buy the master vox for 20 pts, and all those 5 pts over your army add up. I rather rely on the command radius of command sections to give leadership. Maybe not as reliable, but cheaper and as effective if used properly.

Axel
03-07-2005, 09:48
But you also need to buy the master vox for 20 pts, and all those 5 pts over your army add up. I rather rely on the command radius of command sections to give leadership. Maybe not as reliable, but cheaper and as effective if used properly.

The 20pts and soldier are already included in my calculation of 100 pts for the GHQ. On average, the costs are around .5 pts for a normal soldier and 1 pts for a command squad, and will enhance the morale by 2/3 pts to 10. Imho that is worth it for MOST (though probably not all) squads. However, that plan still has to see some real action :-)

Scythe
03-07-2005, 12:26
Well, I'm interested how it plays out in a real game. It just bothers me that you could get another full infantry squad for all the pts you'll invest in equiping the right units with master vox/ voxes. Anyway, like you said, it might be worth it on the command squad due Ld 10... I'm quite interested in any results of this plan...

Darius Rhiannon
03-07-2005, 18:37
Please note that the leadership conveyed by a vox can only be used once per turn.

Now GW does not state player turn or game turn, either way, the 6pts for veteran sargeants is still better than a mastervox and vox network, if only because you can use their leadership more than once per turn...

Hoshi No Koe
04-07-2005, 23:14
The Tomb King models can be used to represent Tzeentch 'Lost and the Damned' units: Ushabti for big mutants and skeletons for regular mutants.

I don't really see the point of using a pure Thousand Sons army. They really need the support of other units in the CSM Codex. However, I can imagine Thousand Sons working very well in a LATD army.

Thousand Sons are supposed to be rare, since they have no way to replace their casualties. At least, that's what I interpret from the fluff.

This is a concept I had in mind as soon as they brought out Tomb kings. There is a major problem with it though.
All units with a mark of chaos in Latd are elite choices, even if you play them legion specific.
This put me off from following up on the idea as that meant I would only be able to include one squad of rubrics and no room for rubric termies or at least a second ruubric squad.
The way I thought about it, was skeletons as plague zombies, ushabti as big mutants, tomb scorpions as Spawn and tomb swarms as gibbering hordes. Though with so few CSM units available, it would've looked too much like a cheap attempt to import a WHFB force to 40k.

Scythe
05-07-2005, 08:27
Shame the rule which makes Thousand Sons a troop choice if the general has the MoT doesn't apply...

Frodo34x
05-07-2005, 09:41
Please note that the leadership conveyed by a vox can only be used once per turn.

Now GW does not state player turn or game turn, either way, the 6pts for veteran sargeants is still better than a mastervox and vox network, if only because you can use their leadership more than once per turn...
And a master vox can be used as many times as you want.

I think this command unit would be pretty fun to use in Kill Team

Scythe
06-07-2005, 11:06
A command unit? In kill team? That just sounds so wrong...

Darius Rhiannon
06-07-2005, 13:38
Frodo consider carefully the wordings of both the vox and the master vox.

The master vox indeed allows all units with voxes to us the officer's leadership.

However, as per the rules of the vox, that squad can still only use it once per turn. So if you have a mastervoxnet, every sqaud with a vox can use the leadership of the officer with the mastervox once per turn. For example, if you use it to pass a morale test in the shooting phase you cannot use it again in the assualt phase....

Veteran Sargeants are superior to voxes.

But judging from the rumours it seems that there will be two types of High Commanders, expensive CC ones, and Cheap Leadership, re-roll boosing ones.

TheOneWithNoName
10-07-2005, 05:41
It looks like the Grenadier bodyguards cannot take special weapons... surely this must be an oversight of some sort. Finally get that BS4 in the command squad and they can't even take weapons... :wtf:

Nazguire
11-07-2005, 01:44
It looks like the Grenadier bodyguards cannot take special weapons... surely this must be an oversight of some sort. Finally get that BS4 in the command squad and they can't even take weapons... :wtf:


Ha! And here you were thinking that the High Command had finally realised having soldiers that could shoot straight was imperative to winning a war! :p

+_Void_Crusaders_+
14-07-2005, 03:20
to Lion El Jason,
IG need to take 1 command "platoon" for each FoC. It's not 1 per your whole army... I learned this not to long ago myself. You must take this 1 command squad (also support squads) before chosing any special characters or allied HQ.

This general staff thing would be cool as it would represent the "Head" platoon command squad in armies of 2-3 Force charts. before now I would have just said "well I know they're the same, but he's the leader!" Now I actually can make a difference in them. kind of like Heaquarters command squad, Inquisitor, division command squad, platoon command squad, sergeant in the veteran squad (has honorifica), and then finally down to individual sergeants. That's the chain of command in my army... Though the inquisitor could really take over the whole thing if he wanted :P...

Barbarossa
14-07-2005, 21:27
Ha! And here you were thinking that the High Command had finally realised having soldiers that could shoot straight was imperative to winning a war! :p

Imperial Guard commanders don't think in terms of soldiers - they think in terms of artillery formations that carpet-bomb entire sections of the battle field! :skull:

BloodDrinker
18-07-2005, 01:09
The thousand sons need anything they can get at the moment.