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View Full Version : Tournament this saturday, will this list do any good? 2k HE.



Jabba
10-02-2010, 15:32
Hiya guys, there's commin' a tourny here this saturday 2k point's, so i was thinking of gooing magic heavy, will this list do any good?

Hero's / Lord's:

Teclis = 475. (my General). (Goes with 1 of the 10 archers).

Dragonmage = 350
lvl 2 = 35
Silver Wand = 10.
Ring of fury = 40
Total = 435.

Mage = 100.
lvl 2 = 35
Elven steed = 12.
Total = 147.

Core:

2*10 archers = 220

Special:

2 Tiranoc Chariot's = 170.

5 Dragon Princes of Caledor = 150.
Magic banner of sorcery = 50.
total = 200.

Rare :

3 repeater boltthrowers = 300
1 Great eagle = 50.

Total = 1997.

I've considered puttin' my mage lvl 2 on a Tiranoc Chariot, but will that do any good?

BigbyWolf
10-02-2010, 15:53
I'd say that Teclis would do well, as would the RBTs, everything else probably won't last too long. I'd drop the dragon-mage and invest in some more troops, as with Teclis and other troops, you really won't need him. Perhaps sink the points into a Caradryan(?)-led Phoenix Guard bunker to hide Teclis in, as even 10 Archers with ASF could get routed by a unit of Harpies/ Furies that rolls well.

Phaedron2
11-02-2010, 17:05
First off, I'd watch posting individual pointcosts, sure that breaks a rule somewhere

That being said, i'd ditch the dragonmage. Normally i'm a huge advocate of them, but you dont really have any bodyguards for Teclis. As bigbywolf said, a Caradyrn bunker can work wonders. Plus you could get a second level 2 along with Caradryn for the dragonmage cost. 3 bolt throws can be good with Curse of Arrow Attraction, but I think two and a second eagle would do better, as you can march block and deny the enemies war machines more effectively.

However, I dont see the damage output of this list being very high, assuming you take high magic on your mages. 20 archers are about as effective as a wet noodle when it comes to killing stuff, and iève found tiranoc chariots to be not far above. Thats a good Dragonpince unit, but lacks support and synergy, even dragon prices will have a hard time against ranked elite infantry. I'd suggest a rework to include ranked units like spearmen and the like, rather then below average elf shoooting

Cheers

t-crane123
11-02-2010, 18:15
If i was you I would drop the dragon mage and take a level 2 then take some sword masters or phoenix guard to protect Teclis.

Gaargod
11-02-2010, 19:02
Hokay.

First off, no individual point costs. Totals are fine, otherwise no (copyright).


Secondly, you have unfortunately mistaken how a Teclis army works. It is NOT a traditional magic heavy army (i.e. spam mages to overwhelm their magic defense). This is because of Teclis' "i get to be irresistable lots" rule. If you take a super magic heavy armour, as above, what tends to happen is thus: Teclis lobs a load of dice, makes a 1 or 2 spells go off irresistably, blowing stuff up - with nothing the enemy can do. Then, your lv2s open up - but the enemy will then have all their magic defense to stop them.

What the Teclis magic army of death should do is: Lv1 scroll caddy, Teclis, combaty hero of choice. Between teclis and the caddy, you should have a good magic defense, whilst allowing Teclis to go crazy with as many dice as he can physically lob at them. Teclis then sits in a nice big bunker whilst the combat hero protects him.

Usually, said big bunker is swordmasters, phoenix guard or white lions, led by Caradyn. White lions are more reliable and less vulnerable to shooting by some way than swordmasters, whilst hittier than phoenix guard, so are normally preferred. Caradyn deals with enemy characters, whilst ASF takes down any normal troops trying to hit Teclis. They get to carry the Banner of Sorcery too, for more Teclis spamming.

So. Obviously, dragon mage has to go (seriously, those things are very meh at the best of times. Ok, its a dragon, but seriously - T5 and 5+ save is not cutting the mustard. WoC sorc lords on dragons work because they're still freaking chaos warriors, not unarmoured elves. And they're still a more inefficient choice!), and the lv2 gets downsized. The dragon princes should go too, to become white lions. Tiranoc chariots are frankly rather poor compared to White lion chariots as well (you need to keep some counter assault troops).

I also think 3 bolt throwers is a bit overkill, 2 and 2 eagles should do the job. Allows bigger marchblock bubble.


Methinks you should be somewhere around the 2k mark with these changes. If not, normal snip/fill to get it there should do the job. You'll end up with a much more reliable bunker, a little bit less hitty (although 2 chariots charging in can happily spell doom to a unit) and a slightly weaker magic phase.

GreenSpeed
11-02-2010, 19:59
you will get third place

D'Haran
11-02-2010, 20:06
I'll be honest. This list would be hard pressed to pull out a draw against most tournament lists I've seen.

So the above posts have it right, but I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. Your army looks like a huge inflated bubble rdy to pop the first time someone gets into cc with it (which I'm sry to say but it will happen), not even just cc, but the first time an enemy gets a chance to attack with anything except possibly a low to mid powered magic phase.

Lets just take stock of what you've got and the problems associated with them in your list:

2 units of archers, while I do take archers in some lists lets be honest, HE archers don't do anything but occupy table quarters and there's not enough of them to take a punch in the face from a snotling. These units will quickly die under any kind of attention, and with Telcis in one they will recieve said attention.

2 Cheap Chariots, good as support espeically for doing enough combat rez first turn to break the enemy. That said you have nothing to support except your DP's which are also a support unit and have the all important banner of sorcery.

DP's, ok I love these guys but seriously only 5 and you gave them the BoS?! I have no idea what you plan to do with these guys in this army but they won't last 2 seconds. If you do put them out there it'll be targeted as the only unit with a banner, low model count, and I'd kill them just to take away 2 PD each phase.

3 RBT, always a fun choice and I approve of the Eagle. Depending on what kind of opposition you're going to see you may take a second Eagle, but either way it's a good choice.

Telcis, awesome mage choice, but as stated above he should be your one trick wonder mage. You don't take traditional magic heavy lists with telcis as he doesn't make your enemy use dispel dice, he just looks at their pile of DD and chuckles to himself while he casts (Unless of course you take a second archmage at 3k and give him the book to make him also giggle uncontrollably).

Dragon mage, ummm why? Never found this guy to be worth his points. The dragon isn't tough enough to act as a mage bunker, the mage is just targeted in combat and dies leave the dragon, the dragon doesn't do enough dmg in combat to prevent the mage from eating it. It could be support for another unit in combat or act to give the mage optimal casting position but it costs way too much for just doing that. Plus in the list as is he'll get shut down by all those DD Telcis could ignore and you only have support units anyways and don't need another.

Enough suggestions have been posted as to changes that you can make, and I am content with pointing out the flaws and hoping you are a good enough general to fix it. But when building an army consider how many points are going where and can they at least kill as many points as they're worth? 50% of your points are in characters, 10% in core, 20% in special, and 20% in rare. This is unbalanced unless your heros are on the level of Gods among mortals (Daemons being the ones who come to mind, or possibly a HE Dragon list and I mean princes on the unkillable dragons not dragon mages), and your special choices are really the only ones who you would want in combat, as such 80% of your army is really ranged, and it not being a gunline army makes that pretty much suicide.