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WusteGeist
12-02-2010, 07:03
Dread Lord
Blood Armor, Executioners Axe, repeater crossbow, sea dragon cloak.
251pts
Master BSB
Banner of Hag Grief, repeater crossbow, sea dragon cloak, great weapon heavy armor.162pts
Master
Ring of Hotek, Gem of NightMares, repeater crossbow, sea dragon cloak, great weapon heavy armor.152pts
Master
3 null stones (MR3), repeater crossbow, sea dragon cloak, great weapon heavy armor.147pts
17 Shades with great weapon. Assassin with d3 extra attacks, killing blow and reroll 1's to wound.
5 dark riders with musician and repeater crossbow.
117pts
5 dark riders with musician and repeater crossbow.
117pts
5 dark riders with musician and repeater crossbow.
117pts
5 dark riders with musician and repeater crossbow.
117pts
5 dark riders with musician and repeater crossbow.
117pts
5 dark riders with musician and repeater crossbow.
117pts
War Hydra
175pts
War Hydra
175pts

2241pts total.
Feed back and general thoughts.

Dark_Knight
12-02-2010, 07:16
Your list will got shot to shreds. Are Shades skirmishing? If so it is a liability to have such a large unit of them. Play this list if you like but a shooty list will out shoot you and a horde army will push you off the table.

limkopi
12-02-2010, 09:16
Dark_Knight are you sure you know what you're talking about? This is the infamous Shade Star list zzz...

@OP - Not sure how you'd work it in but Pearl of Infinite Darkness and Ring of Darkness are useful things to have for this list. The Pearl should have higher priority than the Ring I think.

fubukii
12-02-2010, 09:50
shade unit is too small for it to be a real deathstar. drop some riders and up its size.

The list would probably auto lose vs a blood thrister due to obsidian armor.

I would find a way to make the star bigger, and get a pendant guy in the list to absorb big nasty things. Give the assassin manbane over killing blow.

Ryofo
12-02-2010, 11:10
Considering how few shades it's not really a star, it's more like a small moon:)

ChaosVC
12-02-2010, 13:14
Dark Knight is only right about certain things, a normal empire, dwarf or high elf list can take out the dark riders easily with shooting and panic, then it all comes down to cornering the shades, since skirmishers can't march with 8" of enemy now. The only ally to this list is terrian and oponents making lots of bad decisions.

I can't call you a power gamer because this list has it't obvious weakness, but its a spam list that doesn't seem too over the top and rather fun to play with....but sadly not against. I will just call it SPAM then.

Don Zeko
12-02-2010, 15:56
Yeah, but there are some issues here. For a shadestar to work, you really need the Pearl of Infinite Bleakness, and the Ring of Darkness really helps. Plus, the Gem of Nightmares isn't that big a deal, while the guiding eye could be very useful. I'd run something like this:

Dreadlord w/heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, executioner's axe, null talisman, brace of repeater handbows

Master w/heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, great weapon, brace of repeater handbows, BSB, banner of Hag Graef

Master w/heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, great weapon, brace of repeater handbows, Ring of Hotek, the guiding Eye

Master w/heavy armor, sea dragon cloak, great weapon, brace of repeater handbows, Pearl of infinite Bleakness, Gem of nightmares

assassin w/manbane, D3 attacks, ahw, hand of khaine

5 dark riders w/crossbows, musician

5 dark riders w/crossbows, musician

5 dark riders w/crossbows, musician

35 shades w/great weapons, bloodshade

war hydra

war hydra

tmarichards
12-02-2010, 17:17
Don Zeko's list looks much better, the OP has too many dark riders and too few shades, as well as lacking some key magic items.

Not sure the about the Bloodshade though, may as well just take another Shade. Also, I think this some more magic res would come in useful, maybe another null talisman instead of the Gem.

Don Zeko
12-02-2010, 17:45
Also, I think this some more magic res would come in useful, maybe another null talisman instead of the Gem.

More magic resistance would come in handy, but I don't see how you get it. Null talismans only stack if the same character has more than one, so two characters with one each doesn't help. In order to fit two of them in a noble's magic item allowance, I'd need to drop the ring of hotek or the pearl. The other option would be swapping the executioner's axe for the pendant, armor of eternal servitude, and two null talismans, but i figure that the axe is fun and different, although this dreadlord build would work better.

VC Billy
12-02-2010, 17:46
From the original post it looks like you are just using shades as a character delivery system rather than a force in and of itself. I'm just not sure it will be that effective. I'm not sure it would really hold up well against random opponents.

As far as the suggested list...You can't deploy the characters in the unit since the scouts are set up after them, so the guy that has the pearl should also have the gem that allows him to scout. That prevents you from losing your whole shade unit to terror or panic turn one.

WusteGeist
12-02-2010, 18:35
VC Billy scouts do not have to be deployed as scouts, that is an option.
Don Zeko I agree the gem to make the unit immune to psych would be great, but MR1 wont save me much. The ring only really works against 3 dice and up, and some times not even against 3 dice.
The only possible swap I can see is maybe taking out Exe Axe(ugh really like that toy), and giving general reverse and a couple of stones. While mr3 gets pearl and something else. Not sure exactly on the load out. Point is changing general is only option at this point.

Don Zeko
12-02-2010, 18:56
Yeah, i think the optimal list has 2 null talismans and no executioner's axe on the dreadlord. For the record, the odds of a miscast on 2 dice are 16.7%, the odds on 3 dice are 44.4%, and you get up to 72.2% if anyone is crazy enough to cast on 4 dice. That means that you'll need to think long and hard before throwing a 3-dice spell at a unit with the ring.

Don Zeko
12-02-2010, 18:58
From the original post it looks like you are just using shades as a character delivery system rather than a force in and of itself

Whoa there, let's back up a bit. The shades all have BS5 repeater crossbows. That's a serious threat even to very tough targets. Against other elves, you're probably removing a unit every turn from crossbow fire, and the stand and shoot from those guys is brutal.

eleveninches
12-02-2010, 20:27
More magic resistance would come in handy, but I don't see how you get it. Null talismans only stack if the same character has more than one, so two characters with one each doesn't help. In order to fit two of them in a noble's magic item allowance, I'd need to drop the ring of hotek or the pearl. The other option would be swapping the executioner's axe for the pendant, armor of eternal servitude, and two null talismans, but i figure that the axe is fun and different, although this dreadlord build would work better.

I'd drop the gem of nightmares and pearl of infinite bleakness, and get 3 null talismans in instead.

And give the lord ring of darkness, potion of strength and crimson death (you have no magical attacks so you will get screwed by wraiths etc..)

fubukii
12-02-2010, 20:46
crimson death and potion of strength do not work together you are always str 6 with crimson, although soul render would do the trick

WusteGeist
13-02-2010, 04:42
In all honesty guys its a toss up.
MR3 has served me very well.
Being immune to psych would have been very useful several times.
I guess I shall put up a poll and see where this goes from here.

VC Billy
14-02-2010, 01:31
VC Billy scouts do not have to be deployed as scouts, that is an option.

I thought the same thing until I was play testing a shadestar for Ard' Boyz. If you read the scout rule again you'll see that scouts are always set up after the army.

After you look let me know what you think.

tmarichards
14-02-2010, 23:36
I've looked through the rulebook and relevant FAQs, and can't see anything that would disprove VC Billy's statement.

Only way round it can I can think of is to deploy the character where you want, then deploy the scouts around them in a ring, so the character is already within an inch of the unit and doesn't have to move to join the unit. Also means he's out of line of sight. But, the unit won't benefit from any magic items he has.

In a friendly game I probably wouldn't mind too much if my opponent did deploy them normally though.

WusteGeist
15-02-2010, 04:00
Valid points, but there is a gray area. Nothing in the scout rule says you HAVE to deploy them as scouts. It just states how scout troops are deployed, using the scout rule. What is to say you cant drop them as a normal drop? I found rules for how scouts go down and when, but nothing saying you have to. I know it sounds like splitting hairs, but in all honesty its not.

VC Billy
15-02-2010, 05:11
Fair point. I really wouldn't mind either way in a friendly game. I believe the last edition of the rules allowed it to be an option and was much more clear about it.

A friend of mine challenged me on deploying them before characters and I couldn't find anywhere that specified I had the option to deploy shades before scouts deploy. Which unfortunately, is after characters.