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View Full Version : Wood Elf Scouts, are they worth it?



badgeraddict
13-02-2010, 09:53
Hi all.

I have built up 10 Glade Guard Scouts. I've not tested them out yet as I have only had one game with the Wood Elves.

Now, I'd like to use them if they are going to be a worthwhile choice. I'd like to know what other Wood Elf players think about this troop choice, and their experience with the Scouts in game. Should I stick to my 6 Waywatchers for scouts?

~ Badgeraddict

abcz417
13-02-2010, 11:20
Scouts are useless - there is no point imo paying the additional points to get something that doesn't even come with strength 4 bows, waywatchers are far better. There's no reason why you can't designate your scouts as waywatchers, so long as you make it clear to your opponent.

badgeraddict
13-02-2010, 11:24
Is this the only reason you think Scouts are useless? Wouldn't the ability to skirmish ofset that?

scarvet
13-02-2010, 11:38
Scouts are good extra core choice to introduce cheap skirmish unit. They have the advantage of firing all shots with a relative small frontage.

They are for extra shots you need against opponent's own skirmish unit and fast cavalry.

Woodelfas
13-02-2010, 17:44
scouts are useless since you have waywatchers! 10 models of waywatchers are just as many as you will need

badgeraddict
13-02-2010, 18:52
I have 6 waywatchers. I love them!

slingersam
13-02-2010, 22:20
scouts are not useless. They way i used them is, i take a minimum unit size with the 12" march block banner. Throw them in any forest cover and watch as you march block 2 or 3 blocks of units a turn. That was the only effective way for me to field scouts. Their could possably be more but, thats what i used them for

slingersam
13-02-2010, 22:36
scouts are not useless. They way i used them is, i take a minimum unit size with the 12" march block banner. Throw them in any forest cover and watch as you march block 2 or 3 blocks of units a turn. That was the only effective way for me to field scouts. Their could possably be more but, thats what i used them for

GuyLeCheval
14-02-2010, 10:22
scouts are not useless. They way i used them is, i take a minimum unit size with the 12" march block banner. Throw them in any forest cover and watch as you march block 2 or 3 blocks of units a turn. That was the only effective way for me to field scouts. Their could possably be more but, thats what i used them for

That's what I wanted to say, so +1 to this.

abcz417
14-02-2010, 11:08
But if that's what you want to do then take waywatchers - they're harder to hit, have a better shot, and can be very effective at warmachine/mage hunting. For me Scouts don't do the job nearly as effectively and are a pretty expensive unit if you just want them to march block.

Also if you're taking them with the 12" march-block banner then you're immediately making them an appealing target for your opponent as it's more than doubling their victory points.

badgeraddict
14-02-2010, 14:24
I'm leaning more towards the waywatchers to be honest.

I don't like the idea of archers with a banner, especially scouting ones. Too many vunerable victory points.

nasty_little_hobbit
14-02-2010, 14:47
I don't think scouts are as useless as everyone makes them out to be. Yes, compare them to waywatchers and to an extent, glade guard, there shooting capability for the cost is sub par, yet you are crucially forgetting the one key advantage they have- they are a core.

Persoanlly In games less than 2000pts I would much rather pick a Treeman for odvious reasons or possibly even more so, the eagle. The versatility both these units add far out weights that of the waywatchers and as they only have a slight advantage over scouts for warmachine hunting so the only major difference is the ability to take out heavy cavalry, which for the extra 7pts more and crucially, the rare slot I'd rather not take. As a result I might as well take the scouts because for only 85 points I have a unit that can threaten any warmachine and pop fast cavalry.
At 2000pts + Waywatchers seem a better choice as your likely to face more heavily armed opponents but then I'd rather take the Machine gun alter to settle that issue and you still have to decide if you want to sacrafice the Treeman (ancient)/eagle combo which personally I think Is a more cost effective choice.

abcz417
14-02-2010, 15:36
Waywatchers have far more than a 'slight' advantage over scouts regarding warmachine hunting. People always forget that they have two attacks each, and their deployment rules can also make a huge difference.

There's also not much of an advantage of them being core - it's hardly as if we're desperate to fill-out our core slots.

Treeman can be good - though they're hardly versatile - but against certain opponent's they can be useless, which is why I'd never take more than one. Eagles are nice in games less than 1,000 points, but we have enough units, e.g. warhawkriders, who can do better job than that done by the eagle.

Geshmaal
14-02-2010, 16:14
To be honest Waywatchers aren't worth it at 24 points each. The extra +7 points each really adds up, even if you only take 5. It's a whole dispel scroll +10 points! With 5 Scouts you have a cheap throwaway unit that is versatile. All you'd be paying the extra 7 points each for is an extra attack, the ability to be hit even less (who shoots at skirmishers in woods anyway?) and the silly killing blow gimmick. Waywatchers die just as easily to magic missiles and a charge from pretty much anything, so why give away the extra points for a kamikaze unit?

Lord Dan
14-02-2010, 18:28
To be honest Waywatchers aren't worth it at 24 points each. The extra +7 points each really adds up, even if you only take 5.

For some obvious math, that's 35 points. So we're talking about dropping a magic item or a couple upgrades somewhere to bump scouts to waywatchers. That's a no-brainer for me.

badgeraddict
14-02-2010, 18:39
I think Waywatchers are worth it! Ok so I've only had one game using them & Waywatchers. I used them to march block an Orc and Goblin flank. The enemy shaman spent a good few turns trying to magic them to death. I lost one the whole game. Killing blow only happened a few times that game but hitting on 2's most of the time is a pretty good bonus if you ask me.

In case you guys are wondering I was masacred in my first game, but learnt alot from it.

willowdark
15-02-2010, 16:03
Waywatchers also have two hand weapons, so are slightly more effective against Warmachines and light cav and skirmishers.

And of course, Forest Stalkers doesn't make a big difference in the woods, but the freedom it gives you to leave the woods is nice.

I think scouts work great in conjunction with Waywatchers. I personally like WW in larger units, like 2 x 8, that don't usually get the chance to scout. So having a small unit of GG scouts to lead the way is nice, setting up march blocking and threatening warmachines while WW get into position. Scouts do all the things that WW do but can bare the brunt of magic missiles and small arms fire while the WW live longer, deny points and ultimately get the best chance to do the things you brought them to do.

I played against a WE list with 2 x 8 WW supported by 2 x 5 scouts, and it took me a long time to really do anything to threaten those WW. The scouts were a tactical road block for the first half of the game, and kept my opponent in control of movement.

Shiodome
16-02-2010, 08:51
scouts can't have a banner, 'one unit of glade guard may carry a magic standard'/'upgrade one glade guard to a standard bearer for ## points'. Scouts aren't glade guard, made fairly clear by the way they're treated with the 'can't have more scouts than gladeguard' rule.

scouts might be worth it if you go for a very shooty list, where you simple won't have space for several long lines of 10 glade guard (and where those long lines would have poor line of site). scouts can deploy in your main line but take up much smaller space for no loss of LoS etc. overpriced though in my opinion.

PeG
16-02-2010, 09:09
It really depends on the terrain that you are usually using and whether you have points for waywatchers.

To have a scouting unit is good for several reasons and I usually want to keep my waywatchers a bit further away from the enemy due to their high point cost. Having said that they are rather costly for what they do so I never use more than one unit but having htat one unit in a wood close to my opponents deployemnt zone is usually a good thing both because of marchblocking and some shooting but maybe mainly because most of my opponents doesnt like having sscouts behind their lines and usually go after them. When they do that they have at least one unit chasing WE scouts in a wood :). Usually to actually catch them they need to use at least two units that will need at least a couple of turns to catch and kill the scouts and then another turn to get out of the wood.

Witchblade
16-02-2010, 09:20
scouts can't have a banner, 'one unit of glade guard may carry a magic standard'/'upgrade one glade guard to a standard bearer for ## points'. Scouts aren't glade guard, made fairly clear by the way they're treated with the 'can't have more scouts than gladeguard' rule.

They're still glade guard. IIRC, it's also in the FAQ that they can purchase a magic banner.

scarvet
16-02-2010, 15:22
They're still glade guard. IIRC, it's also in the FAQ that they can purchase a magic banner.
But why bother? Scout is good because they are cheap.

Shamutanti
16-02-2010, 15:33
But why bother? Scout is good because they are cheap.

Because some people might want that option thus it's good to clear things like that up?

Haravikk
16-02-2010, 16:05
I think in general the Wood Elf scouts don't add a great amount of value over regular Glade Guard (who can usually hit most targets anyway). However, if you're playing with wooded terrain then being able to get some scouts ahead of the army and in a block of trees can make them a huge nuisance right away.

So as PeG says; terrain may be the deciding factor, as a decent wooded feature for them to hide in means they can attack with little fear of retribution, and they can easily flee if an enemy charges them.

Kukkelukke
16-02-2010, 16:44
However I think that there are better choices than scouts in the WE army, Using the Great Eagle to mage/warmachine hunt is much more reliable. If you wanna bait do it with Glade riders instead.

Scouts can do the job if you play in a wooded terrain.- But for a tourney the terrain is very different, and i do think that Great Eagle or Glade Riders are much more effective, even if you dont get the first turn.

willowdark
16-02-2010, 16:48
2 Eagles, 2 Glade Riders w/ musicians and one unit of 5 Scouts is only 443 pts total, and those scouts are adding a lot to that dynamic, for a relatively small investment.

Not to mention if you want a TMan or WW than for 85 points those scouts go a long way to make up for those missing eagles.

slingersam
17-02-2010, 09:59
Also scouts are a lot harder to hit by shooting, and get charged. Remember they can't be charged by anything with movement less than 6.