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Col. Tartleton
13-02-2010, 19:38
This could be useful for any races special characters, I at first was considering doing Skaven exclusive but a general thread might be more useful.

But how about beginning with a break down of Skaven Special characters, which units they excel in, what to use them against. Deathstar possibilities. The works.

Discuss.

For example I have no idea of how to use Tretch well (if possible) I've scanned the internet out of curiosity and there's next to nothing about him. All I know he's the exemplar Skaven leader (and fluff wise not in a good way.)

So anyhow, yeah lets talk SC uses.

mistrmoon
13-02-2010, 20:26
josef bugman: Comboing him with a lord allows you to have 2 units of longbeard rangers and an additional unit of longbeards for a very elite army, also double rangers makes for a very nice stubborn squeeze list.

Kairos:
1 - take kairos
2 - rolls buckets of power dice
3 - ?????
4 - profit!

Guard of Itza
13-02-2010, 21:47
Gor- Roq

Create a unit that is practically immune to chariots and hurts most units with lances.

Agnar the Howler
13-02-2010, 23:06
Chakax - Make those Temple Guard even more unbeatable in combat, but an even bigger target for Pit of Shades. Also render hidden models pointless and challenge-geared characters useless vs him. "You strike last no matter what, even with ASF or some other rule, all your magical weapons count as mundane weapons of the same type. I get to re-roll all failed rolls to hit and my weapon is a great weapon that forces you to show me your magic items if we're in combat."

BigbyWolf
14-02-2010, 00:02
Vlad von Carstein- Crazy points denial for a single character...hard to kill, even harder if your opponent has plenty of characters in the unit, then put him in a unit of Grave Guard with the Drakenhof Banner.

Where's a highly skilled (and highly unlikely) Empire thief when you need one?

Skarsnik- Goblin pillbox...nuff said.

Festus in a unit of MoT Chaos Warriors with H/W+shields- 4+ ward/ 3+ save vs shooting, 6+ ward/ 5+ regenerate/ 2+ save in combat.

TheSanityAssassin
14-02-2010, 03:57
Caradryan - MR 3, Fear Causing, complete challenge denial, as he'll probably kill whoever kills him, even if he dies in the process. Also great for lighting up flammable creatures (I one-hit K.O'd a Treeman before) and hacking through regenerating things.

danny-d-b
14-02-2010, 08:22
Festus in marrauders you mean?
I mean poisen doen't help the warriors much and the regerate won't help if you only have two ranks

however put him in marrauders and you have lots of SCR and with poisen can get a hit of ACR

lets test out the maths of 100 hits From combat on both marrauders with light armour shield, and festus vs warriors with shield

S3 on the marruaders
100 hits, 50 wounds, 25 failed armour saves , 16 dead marrauders
S3 on the warriors
100 hits 33.34 wounds 5.56 failed armour saves

warriors win that one- but where always going to- looking at the points of things (I'm leving fesus out of the equation, allong with marks and command)
warriors lost 99.96 points
marruders lost 96 points- so atturally the marruders win


lets go with S4
100 hits on the marrauders 66.68 wounds 44 failed armour saves 29 dead marrauders
100 hits on the warriors 50 wounds 25 failed armour saves
warriors lost 375 points
marruders lost 174 points (lots less- I can even add in festus (359) and the marrauders still win

lets go with S5
100 hits on the marrauders 83.35 wounds 69.45 failed armour saves 46.32 dead marrauders
100 hits on the warriors 66.68 wounds 44 failed armour save, 44 dead marraduer
marrauders lost 277
warriors lost 711.04

so marrauders with festus are more survivable in terms of points- yes the warriors lose less at the lower streanth but once you get to S5 and higher the regen helps a lot, and with lots of high S cavalry and monsters around marrauder with festus for the win I say!

stijnq
14-02-2010, 09:00
@ danny: only problem with your theory is you take an equal amount of hits for the start of your calculations. But Warriors have a higher WS then Marauders, so what you should do is start with an equal amount of ATTACKS instead of HITS, and you'll see that warriors will get less hits against them, meaning less wounds.

BigbyWolf
14-02-2010, 10:13
Festus in marauders you mean?

Nope, I meant in Warriors. If you wanted to make an expensive unit more survivable, he's the way to go. But then I only tend to take MSU warriors and don't use Festus anyway, but I've seen it done before and the unit was almost impossible to kill.

Arbiter7
15-02-2010, 07:26
The best tactic for special characters is to paint them nicely and use them as stand-in models for normal Lord/Hero choices.

Barring that, paint them and leave them in your display case, or use them in dioramas.

Barring that, (apart from tourneys that allow them) use them once in a while in a friendly game for an epic feel.

Sygerrik
15-02-2010, 13:30
The thing with SCs is that you want one of two things:
1) A character that does something a Lord or Hero can do, but better and/or cheaper (ie Teclis, Queek)
2) A character that does something nobody else can do (ie Crone Hellebron, Karl Franz)

In the first case, "tactica" is limited simply to doing what you would normally do with your hero. Queek kills more expensive characters in challenges and makes your army much less likely to flee (and much more likely to rally if they do, which is actually a bigger bonus compared to a Ld 7 Warlord or Seer). Teclis casts tons of magic and doesn't afraid of anything.

In the case of unique characters, it's a matter of leveraging the unique advantages they give you. Karl Franz is the only way Empire can get a Dragon, so use that Dragon to do Dragon things: cause terror checks, flank units to deny ranks, etc. Crone Hellebron is a melee monster who lets you take tons of Witch Elves, so... take tons of Witch Elves.

I'm a big fan of Skrolk, even though he's horrendously overpriced (at least 100 points too expensive for what he does). He is only a level 3 caster but he can threaten positively anything in melee, and he's probably the best way of killing the "unkillable Dreadlord"-- simply roll a 4+ and watch your lord crumble. He makes PMs core but that's not as big a deal for the Skaven as it might be for, say, HE, since our core choices are 40 points anyways. His bound spell is neat and adds to his magical capability (probably moreso than if he had a 4th magic level, although I wish he had both)...

He's great at killing Elves of all stripes, less good against Dwarves or Chaos Warriors.

BigbyWolf
15-02-2010, 13:43
The best tactic for special characters is to paint them nicely and use them as stand-in models for normal Lord/Hero choices.

Barring that, paint them and leave them in your display case, or use them in dioramas.

Barring that, (apart from tourneys that allow them) use them once in a while in a friendly game for an epic feel.

Very useful, perhaps you haven't grasped the concept of a "tactica" thread...it's where "tactics" are discussed. Should you wish to discuss reasons not to use SCs in games, you could start your own thread.

And with those cross words, here's a smiley to show you that you're forgiven- ;)

Morthak
15-02-2010, 16:22
To add some WoC experiences, here my insight on Throgg, who I used in a semi-monstrous horde.

Throgg: Why to take him? Easy. He's far better than an exalted champion, with an extra attack AND 2 wounds. Defensive he's slightly stronger, without any armour, but offensive he has the tools to slay armour-clad brutes. Where he really shines is his leadership capabilities.
Every WoC army has hounds, and some also some drogres. Throgg not only confers his leadership to these units, he's also their bsb that doesn't count as one. He is the reason to take chaos trolls. That way you don't need Tour general to babysit them. Now that the trolls are even common now, they don't take up the special slots, so that you have more room for drogres or knights. You also won't have to take foot-slogging units like warriors or marauders or 3 units of marauder horsemen. I'd say, take at least two units of trolls with Throgg for maximized efficiency.


After that, keep both (or more) troll units within his leadership reach, him being in one is preferred. Should there be little to no ranged threat, you could place the troll units next to each other, with Throgg behind them. That way he can join the unit that isn't stupid the first turn.
He and his unit are quite able to receive charges from knights or big gribblies, but SCR is their weakness. They cannot fight a big block head on, but any character that accompanies them poses little threat. Throgg is great for killing heroes that depend on a good armorsave, but it's always worth it to mathhammer the situation, but most of the time his puke attack is the best choice. Do NOT overestimate him! Throgg is easy killed with anything flaming, he may have lord-like stats, but he isn't. Enemy lords make mincemeat of him, his low weaponskill and low initiative make him far worse in later rounds of combat, especially in challenges.

Throgg is a great addition to your force, powerfull and a great leader.

BigbyWolf
15-02-2010, 16:47
Throgg

In the odd game where I've tried him out, he's been quite useful. In particular the game where he and three trolls got charged by a big unit of Black Knights led by Mannfred. Copious amounts of vomit later (and 3 turns of combat), Throgg was the only one left standing, gnawing aimlessly on the Count's legbone.

H33D
17-02-2010, 05:05
Dwarf Special Characters-

Josef Bugman

PROS:

-The unit Bugman joins is immune to fear and terror.

-The required unit of Longbeard Rangers allows for an additional Longbeard and Ranger unit.

-Provides LD 10 as a general in a 1000 point game as he is a 155 pt. hero choice.

-Can move into a unit that has a wounded character and heal that character by 1 wound if the unit isn't in combat.

CONS:

-Only a 3+ armor save (most of my combat Dwarf characters have 1+).

-No outstanding combat abilities, just an extra attack and S5.

-More expensive than a Thane who could have the same 4 attacks at S5 for cheaper.

TACTICS:

-Bring a unit of Quarreller Rangers in addition to the Longbeard Rangers you are required to have. Bugman does not have to deploy with the Longbeards and instead can deploy with the Quarrellers and fire on the enemy.

-If you are defensive and have war machines at the same time, you can keep him back in order to guard war machines and still give a LD10 boost to nearby units.

-You can also simply come in and use him with a flanking unit of Longbeard Rangers. I did this against VC and started at one flank and wiped through his army. It helped that my Lord killed his fairly early, but as my Lord was stuck in combat still Bugman was able to kill 2 units of skeletons, 1 unit of zombies, and flank into some ghouls. The immunity to fear and terror worked in my favor in this battle.

Thorek Ironbrow

PROS:

-LD 10 Runelord.

-Can cast runes at Ancient Power easier and with less chance of miscasting (one free re-roll if misfire). This is why people HATE Thorek. I don't bring him unless going against Daemons because Daemons are ridiculous as well.

-Better combat ability than a regular Runelord (1+ Armor save, breaks enemy magic weapons).

CONS:

-Hella expensive (505 pts.)

-Can't move so vulnerable to flyers and fast cavalry just like war machines (not that Thorek can't handle himself, but it ties up his Runic ability).

TACTICS:

-Everyone always uses the Rune of Wrath & Ruin. This is a very effective rune as it can slow down the enemy tremendously and punch huge wholes in the enemies units.

-The other runes are very effective especially at how easy it is to strike them with Ancient Power. Giving D3 units immunity to fear and terror against fear causing armies, especially when you can tell a few of your units may lose combat to fear causing units that outnumber you.

-The other rune gives Dwarfs access to the one thing they lack. Mobility. you can charge Miners the turn they arrive straight into. You can basically charge 12" with D3 units.

-I played Lizardmen and he placed a piece of scenery that ended up in my deployment zone that was a lake with cliffs (impassible edges I think so his terradons could land in it or something). I placed Thorek in it and killed his Terradons right away. Use terrain to your advantage when deploying an Anvil as you are not required to have line of sight to Strike any rune at any target.

Thorgrim Grudgebearer

PROS:

-Will send Archaon, Grimgor, and any other puny little worms that actually believe they can stand up to the full might of the Dwarves running with their tail between their legs.

-1+ armor save, 4+ ward save, 7 wounds, T5, D3 wounds, Strength rises to wound on 2+, no armor saves allowed. See previous PRO.

-His unit becomes immune to fear and terror AND stubborn. Put him with any unit. It doesn't matter. Ironbreakers are probably the best as they have better armor and you don't really need great weapons.

-His thronebearers can attack too.

CONS:

-US 5 and a large target. Watch for cannons and magic spells.

-Most expensive special character in Warhammer Fantasy, and I believe the second most expensive character (Chaos Lord on Juggernaut fully decked out is more I believe) as he is 780 pts.

TACTICS:

-Do you really need a tactics paragraph? One word: DEATHSTAR.

END

So thats about it from my knowledge. I own and have a fully painted model of each of these and have used them all effectively. Bugman has died about 50% of the time, but the other two have never died in any game I have played with them. Advice for fighting them? Avoid Thorgrim at all costs (not hard as he still is M3) and if your opponent brings Thorek, try to get into combat with your valuable troops as soon as possible.

Good Luck!!!
Hope you like my Tactica. Have a cold one on my tab over at Bugman's if you do!

Mullitron
17-02-2010, 11:00
Nice read h33d, tho think archaon could give thorgrim a run for his money. Be a long fight with both of them having such good defenses however with thorgrim hitting on 5's and wounding on 3+ instead of normal 2+ due to archaons armor i think it may go his way(tho in the end mainly down to luck).

Malekiths actualy more points than thorgrim on his dragon hes 920 which sadly i think is way over costed for what he does.

mistrmoon
17-02-2010, 21:03
Grombrindal the white dwarf:

-tactics-
Fling him at your opponents units, win.

no but seriously in legendary battle use strollazes rune for a head start and have an anvil just to help him move faster, the guy is a beast! (he better be for 1000points)

Jack of Blades
17-02-2010, 21:57
most of the time his puke attack is the best choice.

I CHOOSE YOU, THROGG! PUKE ATTACK!
Throgg: THROGG! BWAAAHHHH

... sorry :p

H33D
17-02-2010, 22:20
Nice read h33d, tho think archaon could give thorgrim a run for his money. Be a long fight with both of them having such good defenses however with thorgrim hitting on 5's and wounding on 3+ instead of normal 2+ due to archaons armor i think it may go his way(tho in the end mainly down to luck).

Malekiths actualy more points than thorgrim on his dragon hes 920 which sadly i think is way over costed for what he does.

It could always work out differently, but my friend charged Thorgrim with Archaon a few weeks ago, unleashed his sword, and inflicted 1 wound. 3 of Thorgrim's 4 attacks hit, both wounded, 1 made it through the ward save and was multiplied into 2 wounds. Both our units just plinked off of each other, he may have got 1 or 2 wounds, but due to my ranks, standard, rune of battle, and outnumber, he turned tail, ran, and was hysterically gunned down by a gyrocopter on my turn.

Haravikk
17-02-2010, 23:09
Grombrindal the white dwarf:

-tactics-
Fling him at your opponents units, win.

no but seriously in legendary battle use strollazes rune for a head start and have an anvil just to help him move faster, the guy is a beast! (he better be for 1000points)
Where do you get the stats for Grombrindal?

Necromancy Black
18-02-2010, 12:21
I'm going to offer some advice on why NOT to take some special characters people have mention.

Chakax
First up, realise you paying 335 points for a hero with hero stats. He's no different stat wise to any other scar-vet.
What does 335 points buy you? How about 20 temple guard? Hell, it's only a point or so off 21 of them. Is this guy really worth a unit of temple guard?
No. Yes, he always attacks first with 4 Str 7 attacks, but any decent combat hero will give him a run for his money. Hell, my scar-vet will give him a run for his money as he's got just as many attacks and a much, much better save. A 4+ save and 5+ ward save isn't a lot on a 335 point character. Against a combat lord he's most likely dead. Enough attacks at a higher WS and decent Str will kill him, and combat lords have all 3.

Making a TG unit unbreakable sounds good, but they're already stubborn and ItP on leadership 8 with cold blooded. Throw in the BSB which should always be on their Slann and they're close enough to unbreakable. There's something like a 96% chance of them passing and they have to lose combat first. Really, he doesn't bring that much.

Conclusion: If he was 225 points, he would be great and worthwhile taking. At 335 he's not worth with. 335 is about 60 points of getting an EotG, a much better investment.

Sygerrik
18-02-2010, 13:41
Where do you get the stats for Grombrindal?
White Dwarf issue 300. Big doublesize issue with stats for the White Dwarf, Movie Marines, lots more stuff. Anyways, he has a 1+ save, 4++, is unbreakable, has lord level stats, causes all nearby troops to rally, has a nasty rune axe, all kinds of madness. He's really, really killy.

rtunian
18-02-2010, 13:54
he also can join regular units, and if the unit breaks, the unit flees but he stays in combat, preventing pursuit. and if they don't flee further than 6", they will be close enough to autorally.

of course the dwarf sc's would be the beardiest of them all :rolleyes:

BigbyWolf
18-02-2010, 16:57
of course the dwarf sc's would be the beardiest of them all :rolleyes:

And you give me grief for dwarf/ beard related puns!

Well, they do say that imitation is the greatest form of flattery...;)

Haravikk
18-02-2010, 20:30
Hmm, sweet, I'll have to nab that issue as I haven't been keeping up with my White Dwarf subscription! I have several of the "White Dwarf" models from over the years, not that I have any idea where I put them...

AMWOOD co
19-02-2010, 22:29
I want in on this. I'll take a look at some of the High Elf Characters (I have three, but I'll add a little bit for Caradryan).

Teclis:
At 475, he's the most expensive stock special character (Eltharian costs 490 on Stormwing). He also has the worst statline of any special character in the game (to my knowledge). So, what do all these points get you? "... a mage of prodigious power, able to stand against any wizard in the world."

Teclis has 4+d3 power dice, 2+d3 dispell dice, a (almost) sigil of asurian (the old destroy magic scroll), ignores a miscast each turn, and has a special ability equivalent to a 100 pt (to High Elves) item. So, what do you do with him?

I tend to put him in a unit of spearmen with a battle standard and he uses fire magic. Said noble carries the Battle Banner. The unit has full command and the Lion Standard. Somewhere out there is a banner of sorcery. I also tend to take a dragon mage.

Treat the unit more or less as normal, advancing if a target presents itself. The job of the unit is to present a false image. Teclis is as weak as they come stat wise, you don't want him to fight (his sword is excellent but his only having 1 attack makes it near useless). Meanwhile, the rest of the army is distracting/killing the enemy. Teclis himself is blasting apart everything he sees (2 magic missles) and a few things he can't (conflagration of doom and firewall). The wall of fire will also help deal with unit champions infront of Teclis, as there are no lookout sir benefits.

Should he see combat, you have hopefully removed any pesky champions. Simply have the unit champion or the standard bearer (who should be carrying a greatsword) challenge. End of combat, that +d6 combat resolution along with the static 3 or 4 (you will take casualties), should see you through and Teclis may have taken a wound from the enemy attacking him. Just keep him to the edge of the unit to minimize models in contact.

If it can be done with magic, Teclis can do it better.

Korhil:
There are two main reasons to use Korhil. One: make any unit stubborn on Ld 9. Add him to Pheonix guard and watch them take a hit. Two: Ridden Lion Chariot. I've had him take down a Tomb King and a unit of 5 chariots on his own. One lucky killing blow and then I starting hacking chariots apart. He did eventually die with 2 chariots to go, but the Lion chariot finished them off. Very well used points.

Alith Anar:
He performs a task that can be done with a prince. Any pince may take the Bow of the Seafarer (Moonbow has +6" range and panics Dark Elves better) and Shadow Armour to serve the Shadow King's purpose of a scouting bolt thrower. Alith Anar is simply a more specialized one as he has a higher Balistic Skill and Initiative than a prince (not that I8 with Strike first isn't already overkill), and also add furthur protection with a 4+ ward, -1 to hit from shooting, and a penalty for pursuit. The downside is that I've taken the prince and added the Talisman of Loec and a greatsword for added hand to hand power. Still, Alith Anar serves as a great march blocker and flank shooter.

Caradryan:
I don't have him, I've never used him. Still, I think adding magic resistance 3 to a unit is worth while. Any infantry unit would benefit from him, but he would probably be best with Swordmasters as they are targetted a great deal by enemy firepower, so the additional protection will act as a deterent (and maybe be actual protection).

Addition: Greenskins: Grimgor Ironhide
My favourite greenskin character. One of the overall best killers in the game. I've had dragons flee from his charge (him alone, his unit had been wiped out). He's a fighter, pure and simple. Simply line him up and go. With any luck, a chariot or two will be in the way.

Well, there's my two cents.

Agnar the Howler
19-02-2010, 22:49
and a few things he can't (conflagration of doom

Lick me if i'm wrong, but doesn't conflag require LoS, it just has unlimited range?

Necromancy Black
20-02-2010, 01:09
You should really point out how weak teclis is in combat. I mean really, really weak. He's WS 3 with 1 attack and is Toughness 2. And he absolutely no save of any kind. If Teclis get's into combat he should be dead. Even if your trying to minimise the number of models in contact he's still going to get a few attacks at him and you want to pray they only have 1 attack base (my saurus will almost always finish him off in one round). You don't need to challenge him to kill him, just attack with whatever is near him.

AMWOOD co
20-02-2010, 17:24
Okay, I concede to both of you. Yes, Conflagration needs line of sight (how did I miss that, I'm usually very good at this sort of thing), and Teclis has the lowest statline of all special characters, meaning he is a pansy in a fight. He does have, however, 3 wounds to see him through a one round fight and the chance of him being wounded by an empire swordsman is only 4/9, meaning he should walk away. If your opponent is foolish enough to challenge Teclis's unit with a (single wound) champion, take it with the wizard. He has a 5/12 chance of walking away victorious. If the unit only has a champion, challenge with Teclis. Better to face fewer attacks.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to re-evaluate which list to take. Light and High are looking nice...

Condottiere
20-02-2010, 17:47
Teclis is vulnerable to any unit that could get access to him, especially large flyers.

AMWOOD co
21-02-2010, 07:32
I don't see the big concern, I've had him walk away from ogres. More than once in fact in the same battle. The trick is simply to blast your opponents as you approach battle then deny, deny, deny. Make sure Teclis isn't in a position to be engaged by any characters outside of a challenge if at all possible. Once characters are in battle they can't move, so Teclis (or any other character) can be positioned for an optimal position in the unit before a charge is made. I keep Teclis on the corner with the battle standard next to him, that way the battle standard can slaughter models in contact with Teclis.

This comes from a general tactic I find. Better to present the enemy with what he thinks is an easy kill until he finds that he's taken on more than he can chew. Teclis in a spearman unit that is moving forward is regarded as easy pickings. Then the spearmen kill you. The only time I've had Teclis fall was to a Gnoblar army. He dealt the killing blow to a giant in combat (along with the first three in magic), his unit charged through two other units, and Teclis himself fell when he came in contact with a Gnoblar Head Honcho on a Rhinox. I still beat and destroyed that unit, however, avenging my archmage.

Someone has to write this guy in:

Archaon, the Everchosen, Lord of the End Times.

If you want it dead, this is your man. 10 attacks at WS9 with S5 that ignore armour.

Magic resistance 2 and a lvl 2 wizard with +1 to cast.

-1 to hit, can't be wounded on better than a 3+, 1+ armour, 3+ ward, and is immune to poison.

Nearly immune to psychology (he can still flee as a charge response), make a certain unit of knights immune to psychology, has Ld 10 with an 18" general radius and acts as a battle standard without being one.

8" Movement value, ignores terrain when on his own and causes terror.

The best way to use him, I find, is to ram him down the throat of some knight unit. Aim him for the closest heavy cavalry and let 'im go. If you can flank, do so, if not, rack up the overkill by challenging a champion. If a hero is there, it may be worth going after him if you can for the Eye of the Gods roll.

Archaon's only two downsides are his cost and his sword. Archaon is the single most expensive Chaos Special Character at 685 points (the most expensive possible character is a Sorceror Lord of Nurgle or Tzeentch on a dragon at 800). Since he's only Unit Strength 2, he cannot cancel ranks or gain a flank bonus on his own.

Archaon's sword, The Slayer of Kings, normally ignores armour. It also contains a bound daemon which may be unleased, doubling Archaon's attacks, normally 5. The side effect of this is that every 1 rolled will hit either Archaon himself or a friendly model in base contact. Once you let the daemon out, you can't put it back. Most people will tell you not to worry. Archaon will only hit himself once or twice per round, must wound himself on a 4+, then get past his own 3+ ward save. In contrast he will inflict 6 or 7 hits on the enemy, wound on a 2 or 3... and that's that unless they have a ward.

Archaon makes an excellent deathstar when added to his knights. A 6" wide formation will have Archaon and 4 knights. If you add the banner of rage, the knights will gain an attack each and Archaon's sword will double the effect of the frenzy if unleashed. This will total 28 (4 from Dorghar) S5 attacks at the least in a fear causing unit.

For those who used Archaon from the Hordes of Chaos book, his horse now only has 1 wound, meaning it is a steed and not a monster. Put away your Archaon on foot models, they're not needed anymore; all attacks must be directed at the nigh invulnerable Chaos Lord now. This may give him the role of a solo killer now.

Mullitron
21-02-2010, 11:25
kholek suneater: First thing you notice is the impressive stat line, seven strength 8 attacks with a ws of 8. Then theres the toughness of 6 and 8 wounds. This allows him to hit most opponents on 3's then wound on twos which due to his weapon are then multiplied into d3 wounds. Only defenses is heavy armor and high toughness and number of wounds and being a large target will probably attack every cannon ball and skink out there so use his movement of 8 to get him into combat asap. Hes one of the greatest monster killers in the game so try and focus on high toughness multi wound targets. Lastly he can shoot d6 strength 6 hits to any target in line of sight, use this to either soften up targets or get rid of annoying units designed to get in his way.

mistrmoon
21-02-2010, 17:59
Just thought i would step in: grombrindal's rules are in the 30th anniversary white dwarf NOT the 300th issue.

AMWOOD co
15-03-2010, 18:46
I'm praying that the moderators won't declare this thread-nomancy, but I have a followup on a comment I had made.


For those who used Archaon from the Hordes of Chaos book, his horse now only has 1 wound, meaning it is a steed and not a monster. Put away your Archaon on foot models, they're not needed anymore; all attacks must be directed at the nigh invulnerable Chaos Lord now. This may give him the role of a solo killer now.

This statement turns out to be very true. I recently had a game where Archaon took on 2 hydras, one in each flank, and a Witch Elf unit in front and won.

Round 1, Archaon charges Witch elves: champion accepted challenge and died, Archaon wins by 1, witch elves hold.
Round 2, Hyrdas charge each of Archaon's flanks: Archaon is wounded once, kills many witch elves, Archaon wins by 1, all hold.
Round 3, Disc rider charges a Hydra: Takes a wound, deals none, Archaon remains unharmed, many Witch elves die. Elves lose by 3. All break, hydras are run down (one by Archaon, one by Disc). Witch elves are too few to rally.

Another battle had him charged by a unit of blood knights. He was wounded 6 times. Between his armour and ward he passed them all and then killed all 5 knights. Then proceeded to double team a unit of zombies with knights and took on a unit of Grave guard on his own.

All this points to Archaon being the smallest single model deathstar in the game (and one of the more expensive).

Sygerrik
15-03-2010, 21:08
Just thought i would step in: grombrindal's rules are in the 30th anniversary white dwarf NOT the 300th issue.

nope got my 300th issue here in front of me and there's grombrindal big as life (ie 1.5" tall).

Sambojin
16-03-2010, 04:59
Skarsnik, Warlord of Karak Eight Peaks

Skarsnik is one of those nice little unique characters in the O+G book. He has some very good rules, isn't over-pointed, fulfils a function that no other unit can do and even comes on his own special base. He is also, happily, one of the few living O+G special characters in the current time-frame, making him easier to incorporate into campaigns and battle-stories.


Positive Points:

Some very unique rules, that are both powerful, and scale well with the size of your battles.
THE BEST information source about the enemies army, bar none.
Cheap.
Combat monster for the points.
Brings along a very nice, fluffy bound spell that will make your enemies fear him.
Cool story (sets up the continued enmity between NG and dwarfs).
One of the few master/monster combos where they both always fight to the last. No killing Gobbla without Skarsnik trying to stab you up.

Negative Points:

Slow, he's on foot.
No armour (but heaps of wounds), making CR a bit of a liability.
Lowish Ld for a lord choice (but good for a NG or gobbo for that matter).


The best thing about Skarsnik is that his most powerful use is just taking him. Turn 0 (deployment) is probably the most important turn of the game in deciding wether you'll win or lose a battle(double so with O+G). His special rules kick in before a single unit is deployed, giving you the upper hand in the battle to come. Firstly the opponent must give you an idea about how many units they are taking (rolling before they deploy to see who is delayed). This gives you an excellent idea of their elite/horde, MSU/big block make-up, without them being able to do anything about it. So they have 11 units to your 16? Great, you know you can hold back deploying your chariots until last. Endless rules-lawyer debates can spark up about this rule. Do they have to tell you what type of unit they're rolling for? (so they don't cheat of course ;) ). The unit's equipment if there's multiples? You can get a hell of alot of info out of this rule, depending on how you want to play it. It just makes deployment an absolute doddle (even if you just get the number of units you're facing). This is Skarsniks main use.

He then completely screws up 1/6th of those units that you just found out about. They have to deploy on the opponent's back edge (as though they had pursued off the table last turn). If you get first turn, you can then park wolfriders directly in front of these units without having to worry about them charging you on their turn. They can't even march. It also stuffs up missile troops, some warmachines, most infantry and just makes the opponent cry about his carefully made plans on unit use. Nice......

His other, more minor, but still excellent uses are:
1: Combat Monster. 4S5 magic and 4S6 KB attacks, with a big base to make challenging who you want easier, 6 wounds. For a tad over 200pts.

2: Big, killy bound spell. A common set-up with Skarsnik is to plonk him in a big NG unit, flanked by two more big units and a smaller fanatic holder unit behind. This gives him a power-level 5 bound spell, that does 5S6 no-armour-save hits. Bye, bye knights. Almost sure to draw a dispel or they'll have a 1/2 strength unit scenario.

3: Minor extra use of NG units. If you do a flee reaction and rally, you can move that turn. Mainly just good to change your facing and set up a collapsing flank tactic.

4: The highest Ld you can get in a Night Goblin only army for theme while still retaining your "pure" NG status.

5: Makes a great second lord choice at 3k+ points. His rules get better, and screw the opponent more, the bigger the battles get. More points=more units=better Skarsnik rules. More little NG units for his bound spell don't hurt either.

6: In a weird way, he actually makes for a good, single character on foot. I don't have the book in front of me, but from the memory of a couple of scenario battles I had, he works kind of like a mini-Grimgor. Cheap and hitty, and no real reason to bring along that uber-expensive NG unit with him(sic)

As you can see, the benefits of Skarsnik are many. He's kill-y, magic-y, strategic and cool. He's one of those golden units that don't seem too powerful at first, until you realise how you have to play his rules to make them work. Not only that, he brings along the biggest, baddest, gronking squig in the whole of the Old World.

The Warlord of the Eight Peaks rocks.

Toshiro
20-03-2010, 23:28
Settra with 59 chariots at 3k points, not much tactic needed, just straight ahead and trample :D