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VirtualSniper
15-02-2010, 14:21
Hi,
my friend wants to start playing WH40k and really likes the Necron. Are they playable in 5th ed or it is futile to play with them until a new codex?

Thx

WinglessVT2
15-02-2010, 14:25
It's tough, but perfectly doable.
The main problem all the 'old' players have is that they need to retire some very useless units, and buy new ones that are actually good.

Lord Damocles
15-02-2010, 14:27
Yes Necrons are playable.

No it's not futile.



Just don't take them to the GT...

Illiterate Scribe
15-02-2010, 14:27
They do have some pretty serious problems - they get slaughtered in combat, get run down, etc, and, since the nerfing of glancing hits, have difficulty dealing with vehicles. Plus, they're fairly boring and static to play, in my experience.

What does he like about Necrons? The aesthetic? Might be able to replicate that better with CSM. The idea of a soulless, hungry force? Nids might work. Maybe a force of Tyranids, with strange, Geth-like intimations of Necrontyr technology, living metal carapaces, and glowing green eyes.

bigcheese76
15-02-2010, 14:27
Yes they are definately playable in 5th ed. The only thing is they seem to be a very limeted army, especially with their troops choices, which are now really more vital than ever in 5th ed with only troops being able to take objectives.
The Nightbringer and the monolith do work really well in 5th ed if you are playing about a 2000 point game, but just make sure you take plenty of warriors for that vital taking of objectives and so you dont phase out.

WinglessVT2
15-02-2010, 14:34
They're a bit like tau, in that if anything reaches you, you're going to lose at least one unit.

Destroyers, heavy destroyers, immortals, lords, tomb spyders, deceiver, and scarabs are all still good.
The monolith, flayed ones, wraiths, and nightbringer have some uses.
Warriors and pariahs are not good, at all. Warriors especially.

You need to build a mobile, durable force with them, the focus being on destroyers and immortals.
The phalanx is long since dead, because almost everyone uses transports now, so they'll just drive past your monoliths, engage the weak and soft warriors behind, and granting you a quick phase-out.

Lord Damocles
15-02-2010, 14:42
Warriors are not good, at all.
That's rather unfair on the Warriors.

Sure they're weak when it comes to being cought in a Sweeping Advance (not that this means that they're therefore objectively bad in combat of course), but they're still wielding weapons which are superior to Bolters, and are rock hard defensively (getting even more survivable as they interact with other Necron units (other Warriors, Lords, Tomb Spyders).

WinglessVT2
15-02-2010, 14:47
They really aren't good at all.
People hide their warriors behind terrain, other units, and their monoliths for a reason.

It's the same with firewarriors, who cower in fear inside their transports.

At the end of the day, an immortal does a lot more than a warrior, has a lot more durability, isn't guaranteed to get destroyed by assaults, and has a much higher mobility, due to being blessed with an assault weapon.

howlinmonkey
15-02-2010, 14:48
Necrons have had a bad rap from a lot of people.The only real problem I've had is the cost of putting a necron force together.
At the club I played at,we were limited by time constraints to 1000pts.My force consisted of a lord,2 ten warrior squads and a 5 immortal squad.You would not believe the fun I've had with them!
In one game I took out 5 IG tanks and decimated the infantry only losing the game by forgetting about the objective because I was on roll with the dice!Dishing out retribution isnice...
Played right,Necrons can dish out a lot of pain,regardless of the old codex.

Inach
15-02-2010, 15:05
I have to admit i'm one of those guys of the 'they are hit (hardest) by 5th camp, and therefor not fun to play anymore'. I'am willing to adept, but with what?

-least units from unit selection for any army (iirc)
-only lord have upgrades (save disruptor fields)
-have an auto lose option (can be taken advatage off whith sweeping advance)
-lost their effective AT
-Is an elite army, under 1000 points it's no fun
-aint having any transport, in 5th transport are (the) a way to keep the cargo alive and mobile.

On the other hand, they have an awesome tank, great (tad expensive but worth the points) HQ :deceiver, destroyers are still golden.


All in all, I find them dull to play (and my friends find them dull to play against) but the background is awesome. I hope for a new dex, and hope I'll start to like them again.

WinglessVT2
15-02-2010, 15:09
They're just like tau, in that you have a book with lots of useless, outdated stuff, and the one thing they're good at being mobile warfare.

You need to cling to this, just as us tau players do. We get battlesuits, you get destroyers.
We have pathfinders, you have immortals.

Troops really don't feature all that much in either army, thanks to them being both overpriced, fragile, and not good for much, compared to the rest of the units you can invest your points in.

VirtualSniper
15-02-2010, 15:18
Thank you for your feedbacks.

The reasons he wanted to play Necrons is because he likes to play bad guys, and we already have a tyranids, orks and a CSM player.

Anyway, we will wait to see if a new codex is on the way.

WinglessVT2
15-02-2010, 15:31
Not likely until much later in the year, thanks to their limited popularity - which is really GW's own fault.
There's a very real chance we'll see a new tau book before we get one for necrons, and more marines will be released between them.

If you want to be the bad guys, give orks a try.
Witch hunters aren't exactly 'good guys,' either.

Spiney Norman
15-02-2010, 15:38
They really aren't good at all.
People hide their warriors behind terrain, other units, and their monoliths for a reason.

It's the same with firewarriors, who cower in fear inside their transports.

At the end of the day, an immortal does a lot more than a warrior, has a lot more durability, isn't guaranteed to get destroyed by assaults, and has a much higher mobility, due to being blessed with an assault weapon.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but if your immortals get assaulted they only have marginally more chance of surviving than your warriors do. Most squads that charge you in CC will be specifically equipped to do so and even immortals will be swept once your opponents wins combat by more than 4-5.

The advantage that Immortals have is that their min unit size is lower, so if they get assaulted and 5 of them die, they don't get swept (since they were annihilated) and they can WBB as normal next turn (as long as there are more immortals or a Spyder nearby).

But then if your immortals or warriors end up in combat your game plan is already seriously screwed anyway.

Warriors get a lot of bad press, but compared to immortals they are pretty cheap and they really cause a world of hurt when they rapid fire. Also to be honest I'm not sure there really is a place for flayed ones in the current edition, they are poor when compared to every other army's CC troops, and look out of place in an army where everything else is based around shooting. All they can really hope to do is get beaten in combat and then get away with their better-than-warrior initiative.

Also the monolith is still great, the particle whip dishes out a world of pain (I've annihilated entire SM squads at a time with it) and it is the hardest vehicle in the game to destroy.

LonelyPath
15-02-2010, 17:48
Thank you for your feedbacks.

The reasons he wanted to play Necrons is because he likes to play bad guys, and we already have a tyranids, orks and a CSM player.

Anyway, we will wait to see if a new codex is on the way.

No one is really a "good guy" in 40k, there are shades of grey in every army. However, Daemons are also fundamentally a "bad guy" army and is a stronger list than Necrons at the moment, plus using proxies (like ghouls for plaguebearers, dryads for horrors) you can collect a (almost) all plastic force. The only metals you'd need are for HQ choices, but heralds can also be converted from plastic models.

I've not gone up against a Necron force for at least a year now and the last time I did face them it was with my basic Dark Angels and I wiped the floor with them, making them phase out in the 3rd turn (IIRC). I'm hoping they get a new codex myself at some point soon, as I like alot of the Necron models and would like to collect a small force of them.

WinglessVT2
15-02-2010, 17:53
I feared monoliths when I was just starting out.
Once I learned that they have range 12 main guns, and a large template you can launch a grand total of 24 inches, on a vehicle that can only move 6 inches a turn, my fear vanished.

Now under 5th edition, I just drive past them.
Yeah, you still can't hurt them. Yeah, they still don't do a whole lot. Yeah, everything in the game now tends to have a 4+ cover save. Yeah, you get less heavy destroyers if you take them.

It makes me feel like I'm made of solid audacity when I completely ignore the 'invinicible, awe-inspiring, indomitable' monolith.
Really, it's just a big, expensive n00bhammer.

Illiterate Scribe
15-02-2010, 18:07
I feared monoliths when I was just starting out.
Once I learned that they have range 12 main guns, and a large template you can launch a grand total of 24 inches, on a vehicle that can only move 6 inches a turn, my fear vanished.

Now under 5th edition, I just drive past them.
Yeah, you still can't hurt them. Yeah, they still don't do a whole lot. Yeah, everything in the game now tends to have a 4+ cover save. Yeah, you get less heavy destroyers if you take them.

It makes me feel like I'm made of solid audacity when I completely ignore the 'invinicible, awe-inspiring, indomitable' monolith.
Really, it's just a big, expensive n00bhammer.

They're fun to kill, though. While playing a couple of games with the new pdf that shall not be named, it felt pretty awesome to send Moriar barreling into an enemy Monolith and just ripping it apart.

Spiney Norman
16-02-2010, 10:31
I feared monoliths when I was just starting out.
Once I learned that they have range 12 main guns, and a large template you can launch a grand total of 24 inches, on a vehicle that can only move 6 inches a turn, my fear vanished.


Interesting, my opponents still have a healthy fear of my Lith, mainly because when it deep strikes in the middle of the table it can immediately drop a large template on anything within a 48" diameter bubble. Thats not too shabby now is it...

The particle whip on my Lith routinely does almost as much damage as the rest of my army put together, drop it on any squad equivilent to tactical marines or worse and its going to be a very big mess.

WinglessVT2
16-02-2010, 10:44
Everything I field is either mounted, or getting cover from vehicles or sacrificial units.

The last time he deep struck, I took the large blast, then moved away from the monolith.
It didn't get to fire effectively for the rest of the game, and was too far away to benefit his warriors.

Still just a big, black n00bhammer.

RobPro
17-02-2010, 01:45
It's pretty good at contesting objectives, I hear. ;)

WinglessVT2
17-02-2010, 02:19
Therotically.
You want to drop it onto the objective, but this compromises your killyness, since people are going to simply let you occupy the objective until the last known turn.

Besides, and this is the truth...
When was the last time you aimed to take or hold stuff against necrons, and didn't instantly head for his weak, slow troops, to get a phase-out?

Pink Horror
17-02-2010, 05:32
I played against a Necron army that was very lucky with the reserve dice. It was a 2 objective game. The whole army started in reserve, except for the C'Tan. The two Monoliths landed on Turn 2, one on my object in the middle of a bunch of transports, causing a few damage results and even destroying a vehicle, IIRC. The other near his objective, of course. They survived the whole game - I only got a few weapon destroyed and one immobilized, if I remember. The warriors did not start to show up until turn 3. Half of them were still off the table until turn 4. My army was screwed.

Grax
17-02-2010, 16:35
The necron can do well, but there's really only one viable setup. You need Monoliths, Destroyers, Plenty of Warriors (all started in reserve, so you don't get phased out quickly), Immortals, a Lord, and depending on the setup and point level, possibly the Deceiver and Tomb Spyders.

Overall, they're very shooty, but are phased out quickly, and despite being very resilient, they cost a lot of points. I find they work best if the warriors are kept in reserve, and everything is backed up by monstrous creatures, either a C'taan or Tomb Spyders.

Nothing else in the army, besides what I've listed, is really worth taking. If your friend likes the look of that, then they're fine. If not, then he might want to wait until the next codex comes out.

Pink Horror
17-02-2010, 21:22
Nothing else in the army, besides what I've listed, is really worth taking. If your friend likes the look of that, then they're fine. If not, then he might want to wait until the next codex comes out.

Wraiths are worth taking.

rocdocta
20-02-2010, 05:25
The necron can do well, but there's really only one viable setup. You need Monoliths, Destroyers, Plenty of Warriors (all started in reserve, so you don't get phased out quickly), Immortals, a Lord, and depending on the setup and point level, possibly the Deceiver and Tomb Spyders.


Nothing else in the army, besides what I've listed, is really worth taking. If your friend likes the look of that, then they're fine. If not, then he might want to wait until the next codex comes out.

so basically pariahs, flayed ones, wraith, H destroyers and scarabs?

Vs massed MCs with 2+ save, massed HDs are awesome! pariahs matched with flayed ones and the deciever are stunning. flayed ones walk up front and get their WBB. they then provide cover for the pariahs. the pariahs reduce leadership to 7. the deceiver casts run away on the tyranid synapse with ld7 now. 1 wound for every point of the failed ld test. nice.

the1stpip
20-02-2010, 14:55
I find them boring to play against, due to their lack of feasible choices.

With a bit of luck, there could be a new codex in the next year, so you may want to sit on the idea for a little while.

WinglessVT2
20-02-2010, 15:09
Most of my games against them are over before turn 4, so there's very little time to start feeling bored.

Brimweave
20-02-2010, 16:31
I personally wouldn't get them atm as there not very good and also there so boring to have/play IMO. I bought them as my first army and found them the most boring army ever. No upgrades, no unit choice and only a few army builds that are effective. Thats just my opinion of necrons really, made me wonder why I bought them and not another army which was more fun.