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Bunnahabhain
15-02-2010, 23:24
Following on from a thread in the rules forum, I want your evil ideas.

The set up:
Doubles tournament, 1500 pts a player.
What is the worst, most abusive, and generally filthiest tricks you can think of using benefits borrowed from other codexs?
Nothing that simply doesn't work by RAW, ie the farseer powers specify Eldar units, so wouldn't work, or has been FAQ'd to not work, ie Guard orders on non-Guard units.

Lots of these will be based round that wonderful phrases of 'any friendly models', ' any freindly units within x" ' or such like.
EDIT. Assume both forces count as one army, to maximise the possible tricks/ EDIT

Let us have your cheese!

Archangel_Ruined
15-02-2010, 23:28
Daemons with a nurgle themed chaos marine army. Epidemius allows some truly filthy things, at 3000pts I'd have to call shennanigans and leave. With some nasty oblits in there you'd also balance out the inherent anti tank weakness of a daemon list, it just wouldn't be cricket...

Vaktathi
15-02-2010, 23:31
Imperial Guard with...

Another Imperial Guard army. Seriously, as the game gets bigger, IG get exponentially more powerful.

Although that said, Vulkan with IG would be seriously dumb as well.

"Yeah, that's 24 meltaguns in the IG army, half of them in Scouting Vendetta's. Yeah they're all twin linked."

sabreu
15-02-2010, 23:32
Big Mek with kustom force field with camo cloaked space marine scouts. O.o

Bunnahabhain
15-02-2010, 23:38
I was thinking about big mek KFFs covering shooty Guard, both in terms of the cover save, and the close combat ability of the mobs....

vladsimpaler
15-02-2010, 23:42
Don't remember if it still works but Straken with Grey Knight Terminators on the charge is painful.

Each GK Terminator gets 3 WS5 STr7 I5 Power weapon attacks. :D

MajorWesJanson
15-02-2010, 23:45
Locator Beacon Drop Pods and Daemons. Scatter you say?

Lash Princes with Njal. Hey, lets make that unit into a nice straight line...

Lord Inquisitor
15-02-2010, 23:50
Although that said, Vulkan with IG would be seriously dumb as well.
I don't think that washes, because each doubles force counts as a single "army" doesn't it? It's dodgy RAW anyway.

The biggest brokeness I can think of is lending the Lash to other armies. Think Lash was bad before? How about if I conga-line your ork nobs into a line for a Jaws attack [edit: ninja'd!]? Or Marines into a teardrop for a Banewolf? Etc etc.

There's got to be some fun Ld bomb effects with a guard psyker choir (how about with the tyranid Doom?) and you should be able to push a culexus assassin into a total frenzy, perhaps with a large number of psychic tyranids, eldar or grey knights.

onnotangu
15-02-2010, 23:53
vulkan only works on models that have combat tactics to give up.

Vaktathi
15-02-2010, 23:56
vulkan only works on models that have combat tactics to give up.

Re-read his rule. The army loses Combat Tactics, and instead all X weapons count as twin linked. Every other SM IC *replace* combat tactics with chapter tactics, but Vulkan simply says you lose it, and then vulkan makes weapons TL'd.



I don't think that washes, because each doubles force counts as a single "army" doesn't it? It's dodgy RAW anyway. Possibly, it's vague, it would really depend on how the event organizer wanted to play it.

susu.exp
15-02-2010, 23:57
Im teaming up with Vukan for a 2x1k tournament. Im bringing my Pleage marines and a unit of Chaos Termies with Combi-Melters and a heavy flamer.
Something that would be evil to the max: Vulkan in one list and 3xBattlewagon + 3xBurnaboyz in the other...
How is Synapse worded in the new Dex?

ObiWan
16-02-2010, 00:00
Locator Beacon Drop Pods and Daemons. Scatter you say?

Lash Princes with Njal. Hey, lets make that unit into a nice straight line...

*shudders*

Archangel_Ruined
16-02-2010, 00:04
Plague marines with vulkan is bad, plague marines with epidemius is just wrong. Add in some obliterators, maybe a lash prince, get some more daemons, some soulgrinders... It isn't a good way to make friends and influence people.

bigcheese76
16-02-2010, 00:05
I wrote an Imperial Guard army list a while ago. It is far from an IG list though. The majority of the units are from the Witch and Daemonhunters codexes.

Mannimarco
16-02-2010, 00:10
seconded epi and pure death guard list

Ive been allowed to field it once and only once although it is fluffy to field pure nurgle daemons with pure death guard, ah well nevermind

Bunnahabhain
16-02-2010, 00:12
Something that would be evil to the max: Vulkan in one list and 3xBattlewagon + 3xBurnaboyz in the other...


Are Burnaboyz armed with flamers, or something similar that just happens to act the same way....

Vulkan only acts on flamers, meltas etc, not all flamer or melta class weapons, otherwise he'd TL fire dragons....

Lord Inquisitor
16-02-2010, 00:13
Oooh, Straken and lightning claw terminators (or any other assault unit you care to think of)

Fixer
16-02-2010, 00:23
Doom of Malantai combined with Psyker Battle Squads.

"Hey, take 3D6 - your leadership wounds, your Ld is 2"

Raxmei
16-02-2010, 00:25
It's hard to combine the psyker battle squad's weaken resolve power with anything else because its effects only last until the end of the turn. How exactly are doubles matches usually played? If the team is treated as a single army in all respects then you can manage a few things. Weaken Resolve followed by Mind War, for instance. There's another Weaken Resolve trick that would be terrifying if the Guard had more fast assault units. Use Weaken Resolve to break a unit in the shooting phase then charge it in the assault phase. If they don't have And They Shall Know No Fear they'll have to test to regroup and die automatically if they fail. Of course this doesn't work at all on Fearless and the first half doesn't work on Stubbon.

edit: Specifically regarding the Doom of Malantai which has been mentioned a couple times, it doesn't work. Doom's power occurs at the start of the shooting phase before the PBS has a chance to use Weaken Resolve. Then the effects of Weaken Resolve expire at the end of the turn so it can't help the Doom in the enemy shooting phase.

edit again: A Culexus Assassin or anything else that works like one, on the other hand, would work.

Jernmajoren
16-02-2010, 00:31
Imperial Guard with...

Another Imperial Guard army. Seriously, as the game gets bigger, IG get exponentially more powerful.


IG with 6 heavy options would land some pretty heavy fire on the table. :)

Also Doom in a fast transport.

Jetbike seer council with Tervigon giving FNP.

Guard psyker choir works well with Psychic Scream.

Carnifex brood or The Swarmlord with Tyrant Guards, led by marine libby with Gates of infinity and Force Dome.

Corrode
16-02-2010, 00:31
vulkan only works on models that have combat tactics to give up.

Your Dreadnoughts don't get TL meltas and flamers, then?


I don't think that washes, because each doubles force counts as a single "army" doesn't it? It's dodgy RAW anyway.

I think we're assuming for the purpose of the exercise that the 'dodgy RAW' situations are acceptable. This is meant to be about building bent armies, after all.

Orks and Tau or Orks and Guard would probably be good. Each force compensates for the other's weaknesses quite nicely.

Sygerrik
16-02-2010, 00:42
KFF Mek in a Battlewagon protecting the Raiders in a Vulkan list.
Marker Lights + Guard of any description
Tau and Space Wolves/Nids/Any CC heavy army isn't really a dirty trick but has a lot of potential since they balance each other's weaknesses so well.

Bunnahabhain
16-02-2010, 00:46
Doom in a fast transport ( is it a MC, or is it normal sized so allowed to get in?)

Assuming that is a valkyrie, you now have a huge area of effect for Doom. Simply measuring off the hull increases the range hugely.

However, most people include the wings and tail in with the hull for Valkyries, so you can shoot at those bits of them...therefore the radius of DOOM just got bigger. I believe we calculated it in the IG tactica (the lord commissar uses a 6" radius of effect rule too) as ~20" diameter rough circle...

LonelyPath
16-02-2010, 00:56
Doom isn't a MC so it can ride around in transports.

Deathleaper, Aura of Despair and Doom is a nasty combo to lower Ld with Nids. It hurts just about everything (minimum -2 for most and -3 for HQ) and it's even worse when combined with Lash

Tenken
16-02-2010, 02:06
Nids and Orks? Warriors in trukks!?!? KFF'd carnie brood!?! Genestealers in battle wagons!? Grotsnik, okay... wait all the nids have CYBORK BODIES!?!? *flips board*

Dach
16-02-2010, 04:02
+1 for Death Guard & Epidemius

Seen it, battled against it, never again... :wtf:

Lazarus15
16-02-2010, 04:40
Tenken....nice lol and to add on to it....Mad Doc Grotsnik in the Swarmlords unit with tyrant guard....FEEL NO PAIN....really?

Not going to start debate in this thread, but I after much debate of course on here and at local stores, I called up four different bunkers in the Cont. US and the rules boyz and the resounding answer was that no, Vulkan does not give his ability to other army books.

Of course some people will say, "So, that doesn't mean anything....etc." Well, if you call 4 flagship stores and the rules hotline and they all say the same thing and are the company that produces the game......might carry a little weight. Of course some brilliant mind is gonna have a retort but that is for a different thread.

Volandum,
16-02-2010, 04:43
Edepidemus with Plague Marines wood be a good starting point.

onnotangu
16-02-2010, 05:45
Re-read his rule. The army loses Combat Tactics, and instead all X weapons count as twin linked. Every other SM IC *replace* combat tactics with chapter tactics, but Vulkan simply says you lose it, and then vulkan makes weapons TL'd.


Possibly, it's vague, it would really depend on how the event organizer wanted to play it.

can't give up Combat tactics if you never had it to begin with.

MajorWesJanson
16-02-2010, 06:14
can't give up Combat tactics if you never had it to begin with.

There is no instead in the wording. Vulkan makes troops lose Combat Tactics (if they don't have it, they can't lose it). All Flamers and meltas in your army are twin linked. No link between the two phrases, in fact a period between them.

hawo0313
16-02-2010, 06:50
I can imagine many squads could use the space marine chaplain in thier squads.

since it states any squad a mob of 30 ork boyz would do very well would they not. Ofcourse thats the only squad that comes to mind now I'm sure youll find more

AbusePuppy
16-02-2010, 08:10
Epidemius + Plague Marines and possibly a MoN Prince would be pretty disgusting, definitely. I think the main problem would be that neither list is terribly strong on its own (weak AT, etc) and is heavily reliant on a single character. If he dies, the list is nothing special.

IG + IG or IG + Tau could make an absolutely devastating gunline. If you're pairing with Tau, the blue men load up on Railguns, Fireknives, and Markerlights while the IG makes some living walls and all the pieplates and templates it can find. Also some melta just in case. At 3000 pts on the table things are getting really crowded, so those S8 blasts are always gonna hit something. Note that Guard can't benefit from Markerlights- the counters are explicitly only usable by Tau units, even excluding Kroot from the benfits.

Some kind of paired CC armies could work, too; basically, relying on having too many dudes to kill before they arrive and begin munching on things. Drop Pod Marines with Teleport Homers on Scout Bikes to guide in Daemons would be a pretty ridiculous option; replacing the Daemons with Tyranids could also give you a bit more flexibility, although you are risking things by waiting for a bunch of your dudes to arrive on T2.

Vulkan alongside Immolator spam sisters could be very dangerous by virtue of sheer number of wounds it can lay on most armies. It's also got the mobility and flexibility to avoid letting anyone else play the game the way they want to.

Abusing Lash of Submission is a possibility, also as mentioned earlier. IG (for lots of cheap blasts and anti-transport options) and Space Wolves (also for anti-transport and JotWW spam) would be your premiere options. Again, this puts you into the trap of relying heavily on a particular component of your army; it wouldn't be unlikely to see the Lash killed or shut down in the early turns and have the whole army basically crumble.

No matter how dumb it is, part of me would want to bring a triple-Deathstrike IG list to a tourney like that, basically just using the other player as a shield to fend the enemy off long enough for my missiles to launch. Strip folks out of their transports and hope for good rolls on those blasts!

fluffstalker
16-02-2010, 09:29
I was thinking, for a really crazy deepstriking army that just clogs your d zone with so many units you cry- daemons and termie heavy or daemons and dread heavy.

20 over Crushers coming down with 6 dreads/30 termies or some nonsense, transports are cracked open by cyclones/meltas and the rest of the army is pretty much gone next turn on the charge.

Weighted scatter dice would really help here though :P

Squallish
16-02-2010, 10:46
Some combos we were toying with for our doubles tourney (we play Nids and Eldar):

- 2 Tervigons with Catalyst + Eldar Seer Council + Wraithguard as Troops = Fortune + FNP
- Swarmlord + Yriel/Autarch + Striking Scorpions in a Wave Serpent = Outflanking on a 2+ with rerolls for determining table side, with Furious Charge from Swarmy = 4 S5 I5 attacks each
- Farseer with Doom + Shrikes with Dual Boneswords, Adrenal Glands + Swarmlord's preferred enemy = 4 Re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound S5 I5 instant death power attacks on charge