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polymphus
18-02-2010, 00:34
Do they exist? The way I understand the deal between the DE and Slannesh is that they feed him souls so he won't eat them. It's not necessarily out of worship or praise though; it's just a fear/self preservation thing. What I was wondering is whether there are any DE cults that actively worship the big guy and have his patronage. Would a DE army with daemonettes and a KoS be a fluff aberration or would it be perfectly fine?

Cheers,
Poly

Mannimarco
18-02-2010, 00:37
im going to have to say..........no probably not (khorne worshippers are more likely though thats another topic)

the DE are freaking terrified of slaanesh, they know as soon as their own soul is gone they get eaten by it so contantly raid torture and enslave just to keep their own souls topped up so slaanesh cant get to them

sabreu
18-02-2010, 00:47
There is no deal between the Dark Eldar and Slaanesh that I'm aware of. The soul stealing aspect of the Dark Eldar is just their means of prolonging their lives so they don't have to meet the prince of pleasure.

However, there are Eldar who worship and fall to chaos from time to time, and are counted as amongst the most powerful of chaos' warriors. So your idea is not a fluff aberration, just not strictly "dark eldar"

Mannimarco
18-02-2010, 01:01
im not sure about the "from time to time" arnt those chaos eldar the original eldar from before the fall? they are stilll on the original crone worlds

I for one hope that we see these chaos eldar on the table somtime in the future

sabreu
18-02-2010, 01:17
Mannimarco, I recall a featurette from the old GW website that showcased an Eldar Farseer who had fallen to chaos worship, and had a greater daemon that used the Avatar's rules. Although not really a hard canonical occurence, it did have some fluff blurbs that made it interesting and showed it wasn't beyond the imagine to have Eldar fall. The fact a Farseer fell shows that no eldar is above the temptation, and I could hardly consider the Dark Eldar any different to that standard.

Culgore
18-02-2010, 01:29
I have the same understanding as Sabreu. The Dark Eldar fear Slaanesh and eat souls to prolong and reinvigorate themselves.

massey
18-02-2010, 02:04
The Eldar caused the creation of Slaanesh by behaving exactly as the Dark Eldar do. The Dark Eldar know this. They also continue in their practices. The same ones that created Slaanesh.

If that's not Slaanesh worship, I don't know what is. So okay, there's one line somewhere that says the Eldar fear Slaanesh. So? Judge people by their actions, not their words.

sabreu
18-02-2010, 02:18
That's just too lateral of a view of the subject massey. Does living a life of binge drinking and having orgies mean your a worshipper of Dionysos? Does living a chaste life and being celebant make you inherently christian? No, the actions don't constitute worship, veneration, or even acknowledgement of a "god's" domain.

Dark Eldar do indulge in pleasure, debauchery, hedonistic ways. That is true. They do not venerate Slaanesh, worship it (s/he), offer anything to the prince of pleasure as say, the Emperor's Children do.

BaronDG
18-02-2010, 02:23
What's wrong with serving your gods out of fear? It wasn't love that made the azteks cut out human hearts, it was grim necessity for survival!

I think the excuisit fear coming from those evil degenerates is sweet perfume to slaanesh...

sabreu
18-02-2010, 02:25
There's nothing wrong with that at all BaronDg. It just does not currently coincede with the current fluff. As is, Dark Eldar do not actively worship Slaanesh. They acknowledge they created it, but take no responsibility or ownership of s/he.

massey
18-02-2010, 02:25
Neither did the Eldar when they were busy creating Slaanesh. If their actions fed Slaanesh power back then, those same actions will continue to feed it power now. Do they say "oh great Slaanesh we praise thee"? No. But if you left the TV on mute while watching them, you wouldn't be able to tell.

sabreu
18-02-2010, 02:28
They do feed Slaanesh now as in then, nothing has changed in that regard. So do humans feed khorne whenever they feel rage and what not, even up to the noblest of Astartes. I hardly think you would call Dante a khorne worshipper because his actions over the last 1,000 years have fed Khorne?

massey
18-02-2010, 02:49
No, I wouldn't call him a Khorne worshipper. But Dante also isn't focused merely on bloodshed. Killing is something he does in service to the Emperor. I mean, you can kill for the Emperor, you can kill for Khorne, you can kill for Slaanesh or Tzeentch (changing life into death), you can kill for Gork and Mork. Dark Eldar? Their lives are basically indistinguishable from Slaanesh worship. They act as they do purely for pleasure. That's as close as you get to Slaanesh worship.

sabreu
18-02-2010, 02:53
No, no, and no. You've wrapped your idea around the Dark Eldar as constently attempting to be pleasured at all times. That is Emperor's Children's noise marines, frothing mad men who run around killing and fighting just to excite themselves. Dark Eldar have normal aspects to their lives that don't involve anything related to slaanesh. Y'know, like raising children.

Bloodknight
18-02-2010, 06:59
The Planetstrike book (or was it Apoc Reloaded? Can't look at the moment) describes the DE as worshippers of Khaine, which makes a lot of sense. A lot more than Slaanesh.

Dogface
18-02-2010, 11:43
The tragedy of the Dark Eldar lies that in their struggle to escape the clutches of Slannesh, to prolong their lives and secure their mortality, they end up feeding Slannesh.

Khorne is fed whenever a sentient being feels excesses of rage, it is a simplification but essentially that is how it works. Just because you are wrapped up in incredible fury does not make you a worshiper of Khorne but your actions fuel him, whether you wish it or no. That is why the Eldar created Slannesh inadvertently, their emotional and psychological make up meant that they took their debauchery and excess to extreme, inhuman levels that led to the birth of Slannesh. They are not worshipers of Slannesh, no more than a hare is a worshiper of a hawk. They are food, sustenance, energy, not devout believers.

Edit:

And to answer the original questions, soul consumption is a survival technique for Dark Eldar to prolong their lives, when they die their souls go to Slannesh, do not pass go, do not collect $200. That said I could see why a depraved, selfish lot like the Druchii would strike a deal with Slannesh trying to buy themselves a better deal, after all the Crone Eldar do exist.

totgeboren
18-02-2010, 13:26
As other have pointed out, the DE have no "deal" with Slaanesh. Slaanesh constantly drains them of their life essence/souls, so the only way they can survive is by filling themselves up.
Creatures that are really terrified give much more bang for your buck, so they harvest humans and other aliens, process them for maximum gain (torture and such), and then somehow drain them of their souls.
This fills the gap that Slaanesh creates, and the Eldars get to live abit longer.

The soul of a Dark Eldar does not "go to Slaanesh" when they die, it goes to Slaanesh all the time, little by little. That why they act is the way they do. And thats why they don't just use soul stones. Why would they?
It would do them no good, unless they can find someone who can continue to feed them souls after they have passed into the stone, and since the drain get worse and worse the older a DE gets, it's really pointless.

Normal Eldar are not afflicted by Slaanesh in the same way, since they were much further away from the birth of Slaanesh, and they do not live in the webway either. Also, they have the Path system, designed to keep the lure and drain from Slaanesh away.

DE just go "oh ***k it" and try to cope in the only way they know how, whilst still being able to live their lives like they want to.

massey
18-02-2010, 17:17
Are they drained of their life because Slaanesh targets them, and they keep up that lifestyle to avoid death? Or are they drained because they choose to live that lifestyle? I think it's the latter. It's the ultimate Hollywood "live fast, die young" mentality. They've just found a way to avoid the consequences.

None of the other Eldar have their souls sucked out. They don't feel any "pull". But there's evidence that Craftworlders and Exodites have sometimes left their own homes and joined with the Dark Eldar. There's no evidence that says the Dark Eldar have anything genetically different, either, why they should have their souls ripped out while some guy running around the woods with a bow and arrow does not. It's the lifestyle.

Take a drug addict. In real life, drug addicts begin to see the effects of their addiction.
Lines on the mirror
Lines on her face
She pretended not to notice
She was caught up in the race
--Life in the Fast Lane, The Eagles

But the Dark Eldar? They don't suffer those effects. They stay forever young. They get closer and closer to Slaanesh the older they get, but they've found a way to avoid nasty things like having your soul sucked out or mutating into a freak. Sort of like the Rubric of Arhiman. It's a way to cheat the consequences of your actions.

Sir_Turalyon
18-02-2010, 17:31
There is no deal. DE don't feed souls to Slaanesh - Slaanesh slowly sucks their souls out, and they replenish themselves by consuming souls of slaves. They torture people to make their sensations draw Slannesh's attention away from them, but it's diversion rather than sacrifice. They consume souls of other Eldar both to replenish themselves and as cannibal form of infinity circuit. Last but not least, DE decadence come from pre-fall eldar ways, which predate Slaanesh; from their point of view tehy were cool before Slaanesh made it popular.

The Devourer
18-02-2010, 18:04
Are they drained of their life because Slaanesh targets them, and they keep up that lifestyle to avoid death? Or are they drained because they choose to live that lifestyle? I think it's the latter. It's the ultimate Hollywood "live fast, die young" mentality. They've just found a way to avoid the consequences.


That isn't the case. At first the eldar did all these extreme acts to explore new sensations, it wasn't a very nice society and some eldar worked out what was going to happen so ran away. Bang slaanesh is born, most of the eldar die. The eldar that ran away early enough become exodities, and those that only just got away become craftworld eldar. Exodites protect themselves from slaanesh by linking their souls to a network of shrines on their planets (called worl spririts) craft world eldar use soulstones to capture their souls before slaanesh can eat them. Then some eldar turn up in the webway, they somehow survived the fall but but instead it allowed slaanesh to snack on their souls. The only way for them to survive this is to kill and torture people and take their souls. This either replaces the eldars soul or slaanesh takes the other soul instead of the eldars. At first they do this to survive, then they start to like it. Soon they start to like it then their whole society becomes based around it.

nightgant98c
18-02-2010, 18:08
The dark eldar in general don't worship Slaanesh, but I see no reason that a small group couldn't. Many of us have been raised to believe that satan wants to take our souls and send then to eternal torture, but there are still satan worshippers. Same principal could apply to dark eldar and Slaanesh.

sabreu
18-02-2010, 18:20
The Dark Eldar could easily use spirit stones if they so chose to. However, all Dark Eldar are equally terrified of having said spirit stone being used by his "Brethren" after he has died. Either way you cut it, the Dark Eldar are in a lose/lose situation.

Sir_Turalyon
25-02-2010, 14:18
No, they are not in lose/lose situation, their souls are just consumed by other Dark Eldar on the spot without using spirit stone. Rather then stuffing dead souls into infinity circle they make sure everything stays in family ;) .



The dark eldar in general don't worship Slaanesh, but I see no reason that a small group couldn't. Many of us have been raised to believe that satan wants to take our souls and send then to eternal torture, but there are still satan worshippers. Same principal could apply to dark eldar and Slaanesh.

Dark Eldar don't "believe", they know. Not to mention they experience first hand pull of Slaanesh through all their lives and spend these lives trying to get away from it.

Desalbert
25-02-2010, 14:31
Just wanted to chim in here and second the notion that there is, quite simply, no DE deal with Slaanesh-- just the opposite. As has been said, DE gather souls to defend themselves from and to somehow evade Slaanesh. Who will bring about their utter destruction and eternal entrapment, if he/she had his/her way.

Now, I'd certainly even go so far as to ssay, that if ever Dark Eldar could get the chance to some how destroy Slaanesh-- their great persuer, in other words-- they certainly would, and I'm sure they wouldn't hesitate. Why? Because as far as I'm concerned, they hate Slaanesh like a drug-runner hates a K-9 drug dog... they want to get away with their debauchery and such without having a powerful god nipping at their souls every second...

Dark Eldar enjoy what they do, I'm sure of it. So they'd like to keep doing it without the threat of Slaanesh; without the threat of eternal damnation.

EDIT: To the original question, my answer is a solid "No. I don't think they worship Slaanesh in any capacity, and I don't think it would be appropriate to field any type of Slaaneshi warriors alongside DE. Slaanesh is probably Dark Eldar's second greatest enemy... at least, the greatest threat to their ability to stay alive and enjoy life (and life thereafter) as a debauched eldar only could.

spetswalshe
25-02-2010, 14:44
Having read all the posts here, I can't see why some Dark Eldar wouldn't fall to Slaanesh worship - from fear or from a lust for power. Of course, if they could kill off Slaanesh they would, but it's like collaborators in Nazi-occupied France; as far as they can see, the enemy is here to stay so they might as well try and improve their own lot. Dark Eldar are selfish to a fault, and will gladly betray their kin to save themselves.

The reason I could see it as being rare is simply that Slaanesh isn't actually interested in having Dark Eldar champions. Sure, they can experience things to a far stronger degree than a mere human - but they're already providing him with a trickle of deliciously tortured souls, and sooner or later, he's going to have them anyway. Why should Slaanesh give them power when their souls already belong to him? I could see Slaaneshi-worshippers being viewed in Commorragh as cowardly traitors, like collaborators in a POW camp or snitches in prison.

What I've always struggled with is the idea that a Dark Eldar - most of whom have presumably been born in Commarragh and are too young to have been involved in the Fall - is for some reason born with his soul owned by Slaanesh, while a Craftworld, Exodite or Outcast Eldar soul isn't.

sabreu
25-02-2010, 14:56
No, they are not in lose/lose situation, their souls are just consumed by other Dark Eldar on the spot without using spirit stone. Rather then stuffing dead souls into infinity circle they make sure everything stays in family ;) .

That would be exactly why they don't use spirit stones. They don't want to keep their spirit "in the family". They want to eat enough souls to live forever so they don't have to perish and face slaanesh.

Karhedron
25-02-2010, 15:11
DE definitely do not worship Slaanesh in any way. Each of the 4 Eldar societies represents a survival mechanism against Slaanesh.

Craftworlders. Rigid control of the Eldar path, denying hedonism by practising control and moderation.

Dark Eldar. Replace that which Slaanesh takes. The DE do not raid and torture for the fun of it (not in the main anyway). Some of the little fluff which exists on them describes them as being driven to this lifestyle out of terror.

Harlequins. Dedicate their souls to the last surviving intact Eldar god. Their souls still get absorbed by a warp-based entity, just in their case it is willingly. Perhaps it is a case of "better the devil you know".

Exodites. Denial through physical extertion. They effectively forsake their ability to indulge by taking up a lifestyle that demands constant physcial effort.

Temmy
25-02-2010, 15:35
If you are a dark eldar, a soul stone would be the worst form of hell. Imagine being someone whose entire life revolves around gratification of the senses and fulfillment of every whim and urge. To that person the sudden cessation of sensory input in the dark void of a soulstone would be even worse than being joined to Slaanesh.

FarseerMatt
25-02-2010, 18:33
Harlequins. Dedicate their souls to the last surviving intact Eldar god. Their souls still get absorbed by a warp-based entity, just in their case it is willingly. Perhaps it is a case of "better the devil you know".

At least this warp entity is (comparitively) benevolent.



Exodites. Denial through physical extertion. They effectively forsake their ability to indulge by taking up a lifestyle that demands constant physcial effort.

They also have spirit stones, except theirs are merged with the "world spirit" of their planet rather than the equivalent infinity circuit of the craftworlds.



If you are a dark eldar, a soul stone would be the worst form of hell. Imagine being someone whose entire life revolves around gratification of the senses and fulfillment of every whim and urge. To that person the sudden cessation of sensory input in the dark void of a soulstone would be even worse than being joined to Slaanesh.

Hmmm. I'd always thought that spirit stones didn't work as well if the Eldar in question was regularly practicing actions that feed Slaanesh (her consequent pull on their soul would be too strong), but that's a rather good explanation too :) Not to mention that a spirit stone would hardly be safe in the keeping of a bunch of other Dark Eldar!

spetswalshe
25-02-2010, 19:03
Exodites. Denial through physical extertion. They effectively forsake their ability to indulge by taking up a lifestyle that demands constant physcial effort.

This doesn't explain Outcasts like Rangers and Pathfinders, nor the Craftworld unaffiliated Eldar pirate fleets.

I always imagined the reason DE avoid spirit stones is because they live in Commorragh, where anything weaker than you is yours to do whatever you want with. A spirit stone is effectively an Eldar without arms or legs, unable to defend itself and not directly useful to anyone; it would get literally eaten alive.