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Your Mum Rang
08-02-2006, 21:43
I have been looking at the list today and I wonder.

I know HE archers are less than good but with a free round of shooting (bolt throwers included) and the chance of another first turn of shooting the list seems a little broken and nasty.

Merwyrms look good too. I also hear the list has been banned from certain tourneys.

Cpt. Drill
08-02-2006, 22:11
Well it is soon to be un-official so let people with their broken lists have them and be done with it!

Use it as an attacker in siege... thats where it really shines!

English 2000
09-02-2006, 04:04
Looks pretty weak to me.

Good luck against Knights
Good luck against hordes.

fubukii
09-02-2006, 04:26
turns out bolt throwers own knights.

Trunks
09-02-2006, 05:09
Remember that there is an errata to the list. It limits the "pre-game shooting" (you can only shoot each enemy unit once unless you have already shot all of them), and you can get eagles.

It isn't neccessarily "cheesy" but I do think it is a very stupid list.

It has the "rock-paper-scissors effect", where against some armies you will auto-win most of the time (any elite poor armor army, like other elf armies), and against alot of other armies you are screwed (any army with alot of troops).

Elannion
09-02-2006, 14:23
I have just posted in the rumours bit on the topic on storms of chaos lists. I really don't see how that extra round of shooting is heard to be soo cheesy. I mean you have to have an awful lot of units to be able to have a crack at units more than once and you have to have alot of shots to actually do much damage to a unit, more than the frontage of most of your units. I can't speak for the funny monster thing nor can i say about the magic but the rest of the list does't seem all that hard and it lacks in alot of areas, aswell as it keeping the pretty expensiveness of high elf basic troops. Also even if some of these things were good, it does have to have something to make up for what it lacks in.

Latro
09-02-2006, 15:06
... and it lacks in alot of areas.

That's the main problem with the list. It either wins big, or loses big ... and the worst of all is that the outcome can be simply predicted by looking at what list it's up against.

Where's the fun in that?

It's one of the few lists out there that will suck all the enjoyment out of the game for me before the battle even has begun ... the other by the way are: Slayer armies (gosh, another SoC list) and Errantry War armies (gosh, yet another SoC list).

I don't mind playing dead-hard armies, but I do mind playing against something as mind-shattering boring as these things.

:cool:

English 2000
09-02-2006, 16:15
turns out bolt throwers own knights.

********!

Single shot is deady down a flank or against brets. Just means you have to be careful not to allow those flank shots to happen.

Multiple shot vs your average T3 2+ save knights

6 shots, hitting on 3+ = 4 hits
wounding on 3+ = 2.7 wounds
saving on 3+ = 1.7 dead knights

Not that dangerous when you consider that it will take a couple of turns to drop your average knight unit which means the rest of the army gets accross the table.

Are they a threat to knights? Certainly. Do they OWN knights? No. Maneuver, terrain and screening units all come into play.

Will the Sea Guard list kill a unit of knights before the game starts? Likely. Most people I know take 2-3 units of heavy cavalry. Blocks of infantry will be hard for sea guard to deal with.

Xarhain
09-02-2006, 17:00
6 shots, hitting on 3+ = 4 hits
wounding on 3+ = 2.7 wounds
saving on 3+ = 1.7 dead knights


Your maths is wrong.

4 hits and 2.7 wounds, but they will then save 1.8, meaning the number of dead knights is 0.9. So one per turn per bolt thrower. Two bolt throwers, and 3/4 turns (including pre-game shooting, and assuming you get first turn.)

Six to Eight dead knights. Not all that owning really. Considering the rest of the knights are right now butchering your sea guard.

Latro
09-02-2006, 17:25
Not that it matters much, but ...

- don't the bolt throwers come as a 2 for 1 choice?

- won't some characters have those handy bolt thrower bows while flying around on eagles to get easy flank shots?

Anyway, it doesn't matter if they "owne" or "are owned" ... they're boring.

:cool:

Your Mum Rang
09-02-2006, 18:53
Yup. Yup. Both are true.

Elannion
09-02-2006, 22:38
I don't think it is overly cheesy the only problem with it is there is a complete lack of choice limiting the use and potential of the army especially against some people, i dont think it is too powerful. Also what is wrong with the errantry war list? doesn't see bad to me, the only powerful bit is the better knight errants but even then they are very random and charge things you dont want alot of the time. Theres less choice (ok only one) and theres more restrictions. Other than these few things its no different to the main list, its probably slightly weaker but it doesn't not one dimesional or rock paper sissors and its not over powered.

English 2000
10-02-2006, 02:03
Your maths is wrong.

Yup. How embaressing. I calculated it backwards....I feel dumb now.

Frankly
10-02-2006, 06:16
Six to Eight dead knights. Not all that owning really. Considering the rest of the knights are right now butchering your sea guard.

But thats out side of the battle.

You then have 1 to 3 turns and more shooting and magic phases.

My mate plays sea elves for kicks every now and then, its alright, I wouldn't call it a broken rule ... just stupid.

Anything outside of combat where you can't counter with tactic/troops/reasonable play is pretty crappy in wargaming terms.

Other than that the sea fairies can actually make a tough amrylist in more than just cenetering around the shooting phase. The more I play against it the more I actually like the list.