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Tulun
09-02-2006, 02:13
One thing that caught me eye whilst perusing army books... Empire and their Knights.

They seem to be really good. The army also have support units that I'd like (skirmishing archers, some options for long range punch, etc).

The question I pose is, is a standard Empire List or the Middenheim list better if I want to have the core of my army based around their knights?

shadowprince
09-02-2006, 02:25
middenhiem in my opinion, but thats just me. I like the fluff more.

In actuality probably the Regular empire, more options able to put n both regular and White knights, as well as pistoliers,

Tulun
09-02-2006, 03:08
Similiar question :)

Are priests able to take something like dispel scrolls? Or no, because they aren't 'exactly' wizards?

Keller
09-02-2006, 03:53
Under the Middenland / Cult of Ulric list, the warrior priests gain access to new items for aiding in dispel, but no Dispel Scroll items.

If you want an all knight Empire army, I would suggest the Middenland / CoU list, as they have better support options. Archers and Huntsmen become Special, but you can use all the slots on Huntsmen, rather than just 1 core slot. Yuo lose the shields (and 1+ save), as well as the black powder weapons (rare in Middenhiem), but it makes for a much better themed list, IMO.

Honestly, if you are really interesed in knights, Bretonnia might be a better option. I love the Empire, but I don't use knights. Empire has excellent infantry (as well as being decent in other aspects of the game), but Bretonia has knights.

Tulun
09-02-2006, 04:26
My bud is using Bretonia; I don't want them. Plus, I feel the 'free' ward save is silly ;)

I was curious, because I definately want Knights as the Core. I wouldn't go ALL knights, as I'd definately want some Archers, and maybe Greatswords (stubborn infantry) to back them up. I was just curious which was (in people's eyes) generally the better set up, overall.

I definately want to make use of some of the Fast Calvary both armies could provide. Pistoliers seem interesting, as do the hound units in Middenheim...

Lord Xcalibur
09-02-2006, 20:37
Tulun,

From your description of what you want I would go with Cult of Ulric. I've got a bunch of these guys just waiting for me to finish painting my Wood Elves.
1) Core knights of the White Wolf
2) Special huntsmen/archers
3) Ability to take core infantry as well with priests as unit upgrades
4) Hounds for fast cavalry

and last but DEFINITELY not least:

- Teutogen Guard - Stubborn infantry with cavalry hammers. And some of the coolest models made in metal = )

And of course, you get to make armies based on wolves for the lord of winter and war... love that imagery.

Lord Xcalibur

Steel_Legion
10-02-2006, 00:12
the Teutogen Guard are fantastic models, im guessing not every empire army can field em, just ulric, which is a shame because my empire could do with those beautiful models

renard_sawg
10-02-2006, 00:52
You can use the Teutogen guard as greatswordmen, with the "count as rules" I donīt think anybody would botter, as they are pretty much the same kind of unit, just different weapon.

Keller
10-02-2006, 17:49
the Teutogen Guard are fantastic models, im guessing not every empire army can field em, just ulric, which is a shame because my empire could do with those beautiful models

The Middenland list can use both the Tetuegon Guard and Greatswordsmen units. They are both Stubborn, and you can make the Guard Inner Circle to make them S5 as well (S4+halberd, how the hammer works on foot). That's just one advantage of using a list that blends the Cult and regular armies into one.

Personally, I suggest the Middenland list for you. You still get Core White Wolf Knights, but you keep a lot of the Empire units too. All blackpowder units are limited to Rare though, so you have to use archers/crossbowmen for shooting units if you want any cannons/mortars. But if you want loads of knights, you don't need a whole lot of shooting, and any of the choices are good anyway.

Brother Edwin
10-02-2006, 18:47
One thing that caught me eye whilst perusing army books... Empire and their Knights.

They seem to be really good. The army also have support units that I'd like (skirmishing archers, some options for long range punch, etc).

The question I pose is, is a standard Empire List or the Middenheim list better if I want to have the core of my army based around their knights?

Yes most defenatly.

My friends current list which is a zillion times better than any other empire list:

Elector count on griffon.
3 wizzards, rod of power and 4 scrolls.
3 5 man knight unit.
5 huntsmen.
1 mortar
3 cannons
helblaster
steamtank with cannon.

Tulun
10-02-2006, 19:18
The Middenland list looks the most tempting so far. The Ulric looks cool, but it's missing lots of option... Middenland seems an interesting inbetween.

The Regular seems nice, but much more shooty. The regular knights are cool (1+ saves? yay!), but lack anything when not on the charge.

Crazy Harborc
10-02-2006, 21:14
One regular opponent, really likes White Wolfs and the Priests of Ulric. He uses 5 units of 8 to 10 knights plus a hero.

The 2+ save instead of 1+, is still a darn good save. Against an army without handgunners/black powder, a 2+ save against shooting is darn near as good as a 1+ save. Since a 1 ALWAYS fails it is as good.

Tulun
10-02-2006, 21:49
Isn't 8-10 a bad size for Knights? Interesting, though :) I like the White Wolf Knights because they are still 'okay' when not charging.

Sambojin
11-02-2006, 01:03
Go for the middemland army. Not only is it fluffy, you can get a strange, muti-army thing going.

White wolves= Chaos knights, questing knights, empire white wolves, black knights
dogs (buy wolf riders) = chaos warhounds, wolf riders, dire wolves.

A few HW+shield troops and you've got core for all of them. Plus the middenland book is for free on the web. You'll work it out between that and army builder.

Crazy Harborc
12-02-2006, 03:15
Isn't 8-10 a bad size for Knights? Interesting, though :) I like the White Wolf Knights because they are still 'okay' when not charging.

Well.......11 or 12 IS a better choice. The unit's cost does cut down on the number of units of knights you can field. The larger the number of points, the better a all knights Empire Army.

Keller
12-02-2006, 18:31
Isn't 8-10 a bad size for Knights?

I prefer units of 6, but I use 10 for my large cavalry blocks. Most of the time the unit of 10 is reserved for when I am playing a large game, and want a big unit for my Grand Master to be in. You don't have to have as many knights in the back as in the front, so 10 works just as well as 12, you just don't have the US.

I should think about using knights more often...