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quilly18
22-02-2010, 05:08
Unexpectingly I have aquired 2500 pts of daemons. I know how they work and all but I have never seen them win. It seems everytime I play against daemons they lose and I never see them place high in tournaments. I know they can win I just dont know what lists and such. Any ideas on how to start a list?

Lord of Worms
22-02-2010, 05:10
It would help if you listed what models you have to work with.

quilly18
22-02-2010, 05:15
10 blood crushers

40 bloodletters

2 daemon princes

bloodthirster

2 keeper of secrets

30 daemonettes

skulltaker mounted

This is what I have recived but if these models rnt needed I am willing to by more around it with no problem

Lord of Worms
22-02-2010, 05:26
Well, the Khorne and Slaanesh are mostly variations of the same thing. Ie. They're both for melee. Do you care about theming your army a certain way?

DuskRaider
22-02-2010, 06:02
Let me make a suggestion... Plaguebearers, Fiends and a Soul Grinder or two. I myself play Nurgle / Khorne, and PBs are more or less required for a game with objectives (most of them). They're extremely durable and if they squat on a spot, good luck moving them. Downside to PBs are they're extremely slow and hit like a wet noodle.

While I don't use Fiends, my friend does and I've played against them. A hard hitting and extremely fast (read: can move up to 24" in a turn). These guys are great against infantry units or tanks (with the exception of AV 13 or 14). Downside is, they're fragile and if your enemy knows what he's up against, chances are you'll see them become a priority very quickly.

Lastly, Soul Grinders. The only real armor we have, and thankfully it also has range. May not be the BEST range, but it's range nonetheless. Two nasty shots (Tongue and Phlegm) and both can be given to a single SG. Their armor is good, and since they're a walker you only hit the rear armor if you actually assault it. Downsides are they're a fire magnet and they have a huge deep strike foot print.

Other units, such as Pink Horrors, can be pretty nasty if tooled out well. I've had Pink Horrors actually chew through my Boyz one game, which was quite unpleasant. Another thing... Daemon Princes. Nurgle or nothing. A DP with great toughness, can wound on a 2+, and with Breath of Chaos can really ruin... pretty much anything's day.

That's all I got.

druchii
22-02-2010, 07:01
Let me make a suggestion... Plaguebearers, Fiends and a Soul Grinder or two. I myself play Nurgle / Khorne, and PBs are more or less required for a game with objectives (most of them). They're extremely durable and if they squat on a spot, good luck moving them. Downside to PBs are they're extremely slow and hit like a wet noodle.

While I don't use Fiends, my friend does and I've played against them. A hard hitting and extremely fast (read: can move up to 24" in a turn). These guys are great against infantry units or tanks (with the exception of AV 13 or 14). Downside is, they're fragile and if your enemy knows what he's up against, chances are you'll see them become a priority very quickly.

Lastly, Soul Grinders. The only real armor we have, and thankfully it also has range. May not be the BEST range, but it's range nonetheless. Two nasty shots (Tongue and Phlegm) and both can be given to a single SG. Their armor is good, and since they're a walker you only hit the rear armor if you actually assault it. Downsides are they're a fire magnet and they have a huge deep strike foot print.

Other units, such as Pink Horrors, can be pretty nasty if tooled out well. I've had Pink Horrors actually chew through my Boyz one game, which was quite unpleasant. Another thing... Daemon Princes. Nurgle or nothing. A DP with great toughness, can wound on a 2+, and with Breath of Chaos can really ruin... pretty much anything's day.

That's all I got.

Couple of incorrect things here:
You never strike blows against the rear armor of a SG unless you're shooting at it. In combat you get to deal with is front AV13.

Don't ever give two mawcannon upgrades to a SG. Waste of points (they can only fire one) and tongue is just awful. Phlegm all the way.

Pink Horrors aren't so hot. They're amazing at toasting high cost units with middle of the road armor saves. Genestealers and some Aspect Warriors fall into this category. Otherwise you're paying 2pts more than a marine for a guardsmen with a 4++ and a slick gun.

Tzeentch "gunboat" Demon Princes are nice also. Especially when given MOT, bolt, gaze and possibly flight. They flap around tossing out a good amount of shooting, hitting on a 2+ is amazing, and so is having a MC with 4w and a 4++. Slaanesh DPs are nice, because they can be relatively cheap, get grenades, and a great I value.

Plague Bearers are amazing, just don't let them get locked up in assault unless that's where you want them to be!

Fiends/Bloodcrushers are amazing. While fiends are amazingly fast, crushers are amazingly durable. Both are very killy. I take a squad of each myself.

There's more, but I've been typing forever...

d

ps. check out the demon tactica forum! Tons of pages of great information.

Corpse
22-02-2010, 10:04
Math-Hammer heavy bolter heavy weapon teams and horrors, you'll be shocked (adding in that horrors fire at their enemy first because of DS, and they are mobile firepower)

Field all the blood crushers in units of 3. Each unit with an icon, and rending all on different models for wound allocation abuse.

Give your thirster the +1 strength, don't argue about it. Just do it, you'll thank me when you insta kill characters worth as much as he is and roll tyranid warriors over in droves.

Make the daemonette units 20-strong. Make the bloodletter units 15-20 strong. Deep strike 8" away, and add +1" for every 'ring' the unit must make when it deep strikes. (three rings = 11")

Remember to run models after they deep strike. Avoid being blasted. Attack one side at a time to prevent as much 12" rapid fire as possible. The tougher units sets down first, the numerous units can do more damage if they get in there unharmed - point for point then the big stuff. (10 bloodletters > daemon prince)

Swarming princes are best done without armor upgrade. Give them mark of tzeentch and make them anti tank shooters. The 4++ is good enough rather then paying hellish amount for the 3+ that is often ignored due to high AP weapons. (Or use cover saves when it arrives)

The keepers of secrets are decent, but deep strike them both in the same wave, near the same location. Act like they're part of a unit, otherwise they might not fare so well.

Thud
22-02-2010, 14:46
If you really want to win with them, I suggest getting hold of some square bases for them... ;)

Lord Inquisitor
22-02-2010, 14:54
If you really want to win with them, I suggest getting hold of some square bases for them... ;)
Yeah, I thought this was a wind-up thread until I realised that it was in the 40K forums...

Kriegschmidt
22-02-2010, 15:16
I am fairly allergic to telling people how to build army lists, because this kind of advice can be very limiting (e.g., "don't use them they suck, take loads of those they rock", etc.). So I would strongly advise you to ignore everyong telling you to buy plaguebearers, Soul Grinders, etc...., unless you like the idea of playing with those models.

I think you've got a nice range of stuff there. Khorne Daemon armies can really have a major psychological impact on your opponent, as they all look terrifying and are terrifying in assault. However, they can be a little slow, as Daemon armies go. Don't forget though that you have a major mobility advantage in being able to Deep Strike everything.

Your Daemonettes should help to fill in the mobility gaps, as they have Fleet. Not to mention having Rending claws, which will help you against armour. There's a real veteran Daemon player on here called RedRiverTears, and he came to the conclusion that Daemonettes work better in small units than middle-sized units, as the firepower that will wipe out a small unit of Daemonettes will likely also wipe out a middle-sized Daemonette unit. However, Daemons can be fielded in up to 20, so you could have some success with this too.

With those two Daemon Princes you have a lot of options. You could make them both Tzeentch princes and add an excellent firepower section to your army, for example.

But to your question: how to start a list. I would recommend that you try a Bloodthirster and Keeper of Secrets, a few Bloodcrushers and a whole load of Bloodletters and Daemonettes. Bloodcrushers are tough and tend to draw fire, so they can keep your valuable Troops alive longer. Your Bloodthirster and Keeper of Secrets are both fast Monstrous Creatures, giving you flexible anti-everything punch. Daemons can go mental in Troops numbers, and here you have the models available to experiment.

Trying out a selection like this, you may find you want some firepower, and there are options you can explore with those two Daemon Princes. Try out a few games, tell us how you get on :)

Grax
22-02-2010, 15:21
Chaos Daemons are one of the tougher armies to play, but not because they're underpowered. It's because of their random deployment, with everything deepstriking and half starting in reserve (and 1/3 of the time, it's the half you don't want).

That said, I won a very competitive 40k tournament with my Chaos Daemons (something I've never managed to do with my Orks), and a Daemons player won the 40k Ard Boyz the year before last. The trick is, their true strength isn't with their troops, it's with their monstrous creatures, and mini-monstrous creatures (bloodcrushers and fiends).

Soul Grinders are nice, but the higher the point level, the better a choice Daemon Princes become, simply because of all the anti-armor shooting at that level. Still, they're usually viable if taken in 3's and dropped in the same wave.

Keepers of Secrets and Bloodthirsters are both great. I'd use 2 in larger lists (one of each). This will give you 5 monstrous creatures, which will be quite formidable, and really tough to deal with if you drop them all in the same wave.

As for troops, in competitive settings I just use smallish squads of plaguebearers and pink horrors, for objective grabbing, harassing, and holding icons. Your points are better off spent on bloodcrushers and fiends.

Finally, I don't think skulltaker is worth it anymore, unless you fight a lot of Tyranid opponents.

Good luck!