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Dark Primus
22-02-2010, 18:24
Well Chaos Daemons assigned to one particular god can not switch its/his/hers allegiance from one god to another if I understand it correctlybut is there a chance a Daemon Prince can do it due to being mortal?

I would imagine the god he forsake would end up in a very bad mode and would punish him for it unless his new allegiance protects him from such horros.
Has it ever happened?

Ramius4
22-02-2010, 18:32
No. Not even a remote possibility. Once you're that far along, you're too deep into it.

There's as much a chance of that happening as my computer here suddenly turning into a cheeseburger.

Which would be nice, I'd really like a cheeseburger.

Dark Primus
22-02-2010, 18:38
No. Not even a remote possibility. Once you're that far along, you're too deep into it.

There's as much a chance of that happening as my computer here suddenly turning into a cheeseburger.

Which would be nice, I'd really like a cheeseburger.


Aahh just wanted to be sure. :)

But you would loose an even more valuable computer. :p

Magos Explorator
22-02-2010, 19:05
I don't know; I could see one of the Gods accepting the Daemon Prince to spite his rival (but said Prince would probably have to work super-hard for their new patron).

nedius
22-02-2010, 20:46
Tzeench might steal a deamon prince, or slaanesh.

Tzeench might conspire to turn a prince against his own patron with promises of greater power, lies about his patron and other deceptions.

Slaanesh could tempt someone away with promises of pleasures, etc. I actually think that slaanesh might be the easiest prey for tzeench, who could offer greater pleasures (a deception, of course!).

Khorne would probably be the hardest. It's hard to tempt someone who only cares for skulls and blood. Khorne offers them plenty of that already.

outbreak
22-02-2010, 20:51
I thought that this could happen in scenarios where say a khorne daemon prince takes so much pleasure killing someone that slaanesh gifts/takes notice of him and khorne gets jealous so he moves towards slaanesh away from khorne

Askil the Undecided
22-02-2010, 20:58
An aligned Deamon Prince = basically an independantly sentient part of a Chaos god.

They can't change alignment anymore than a dead soldier can change which side he was on in the war that killed him.

An unaligned Deamon prince however is technically part of all the gods anyway and can drift closer to any god it wishes.

baphomael
22-02-2010, 21:47
I thought that this could happen in scenarios where say a khorne daemon prince takes so much pleasure killing someone that slaanesh gifts/takes notice of him and khorne gets jealous so he moves towards slaanesh away from khorne

Rather, the Gods might reward a Champion regardless of who he serves if it tickles there fancy. However, that is not to say that the Champion in question is dedicated to any other God other than the one whose barcode is stamped on his forehead.

Hasan ibn Sabbah
22-02-2010, 22:48
I would say no before Daemons of Chaos came out. But now, there are powerfull daemons that battle for defiler body and make oath to forge of souls. Oath that basically bounds them to serve the forge as defenders, and to defend it against any of big 4 if he would assalut it. So If daemons can make such oath to something lesser than their patron god, and fight against him if forge needs it, it wouldn't be entirely impossible to daemon prince, who has much more idividuality than any other daemon, to do same for other god.

On the other hand, there is no event, described in fluff, that tested that oath, so we don't know if augmented daemons would keep it. Big 4 may tollerate it, knowing that no oath can turn them against them, or have no problems with sucking the power they granted them back to themselves. Soulgrinders are usefull, Daemon Princes that change patrons are not.

Lord of Worms
22-02-2010, 23:02
Although the metaphysics of 40k would maybe allow them to do it, one would have to wonder if they would ever actually choose to do do. I say unlikely. Achieving communion with their patron deity would make it very unlikely foe them to have the requisite level of "free will" (at least in some manner anyway). It becomes who they are, not just a job they happen to be performing.

38.
23-02-2010, 10:36
My understanding is that an aligned Daemon prince takes his power from his god. So I can't see it happening.

Hasan forgets that their are plenty of unaligned daemons. A bloodletter/bloodthrister would never betray Khorne for a defiler body. As they are part of their god.

Iuris
23-02-2010, 11:17
There's as much a chance of that happening as my computer here suddenly turning into a cheeseburger.

Which would be nice, I'd really like a cheeseburger.

But then you wouldn't be post about it on warseer!

Anyway, I'm sure Slaanesh was supposed to specialize in converting the champions of other gods to his cause. Now, I'm sure that with enough effort, a demon could follow suit...

hummus
23-02-2010, 12:04
in the wrath of kharn he manages to seduce some beserkers to his cause and almost gets kharn as well!
so im sure a daemon prince would be doable

Thanatos_elNyx
23-02-2010, 12:28
I would say you can.

Daemon Princes may have been imbued with some of the power of their Patron God but they are still an independent agent with an independent mind.
If they defected then they would diminish their former patron and empower their new master.

Hasan ibn Sabbah
23-02-2010, 12:40
My understanding is that an aligned Daemon prince takes his power from his god. So I can't see it happening.

Hasan forgets that their are plenty of unaligned daemons. A bloodletter/bloodthrister would never betray Khorne for a defiler body. As they are part of their god.

I haven't forget, and I still think that no daemon can betray their patron for another. But still in Daemons codex there is stated that powerfull daemons fight for it + they present Soulgrinders as Khorne/Slaanesh/Nurgle Soulgrinders. I don't belive that they visualized it as little Bloodletters fighting Daemonettes, but mighty battles of greater daemons. I realize that the whole idea of Daemon, changing god is plain stupid, It's like my hand suddenly changed into banana.

I also said that it could be convinient for Chaos Gods to let their daemons make that oath. I think that they know that the whole oath means nothing and having few Soulgrinders is convinient since they're stable in material world. Having daemons betraying them for other god IS NOT convinient so for me it isn't possible. Even Skarband after his exile, still serve Khorne.

hivefleetcarrion
23-02-2010, 13:00
I wouldn't think that an aligned deamon could do it. as Hasen has mentioned. scarband was tricked by tzeench into attacking khorne, but it still serves khorne. remembering that deamons are a essence of their patron it would be like a big toe suddenly defecting from the body.

now deamon princes having been elevated past mortal status, would cease to exist if they stopped getting power from their patron.

DJ3
23-02-2010, 20:00
I haven't forget, and I still think that no daemon can betray their patron for another. But still in Daemons codex there is stated that powerfull daemons fight for it + they present Soulgrinders as Khorne/Slaanesh/Nurgle Soulgrinders. I don't belive that they visualized it as little Bloodletters fighting Daemonettes, but mighty battles of greater daemons. I realize that the whole idea of Daemon, changing god is plain stupid, It's like my hand suddenly changed into banana.

I also said that it could be convinient for Chaos Gods to let their daemons make that oath. I think that they know that the whole oath means nothing and having few Soulgrinders is convinient since they're stable in material world. Having daemons betraying them for other god IS NOT convinient so for me it isn't possible. Even Skarband after his exile, still serve Khorne.

Comparing the question of the thread (Daemon Princes switching specific allegiances) to the Oath of the Iron Pact probably isn't a particularly meaningful comparison.

For one, those are Greater Daemons being bound to Soul Grinders, and Greater Daemons never really had a choice in who they serve--they just are a part of their god. Daemon Princes were mortal and therefore had the choice to make, so it's conceivable they could somehow switch later on.

And for another, it's hard to say how the Oath really works, since I don't think there's any representation in the fluff that would suggest the Forge of Souls has ever actually come under the kind of attack mentioned in the Oath. I doubt that the Soul Grinders can just "ignore" it; the smiths in the Forge likely have some way of binding them to their agreement, otherwise it would be kind of ridiculous to be creating these things in the first place. Not to mention that the other parts of the Oath are always adhered to, with the souls and mechanical wreckage of their kills being sent to the Forge.

The Forge is the source of all Daemon weaponry and armor, so one of the four attacking it for sole control is never likely to be a great idea regardless, as the other three would obviously come make sure that didn't happen--not to mention that after the Forge was liberated, the smiths probably wouldn't be making you any shiny new Daemon equipment anytime soon.

The prospect of having to battle against your own Soul Grinders as part of the attack is likely just a little extra insurance the Forge-keepers like to have, just incase any two of the chaos gods decided to team up in the endeavor--they'd still be fighting the other two chaos gods, plus their own Soul Grinders, so things are still tipped in the Forge's favor.

spetswalshe
23-02-2010, 21:55
Hasan forgets that their are plenty of unaligned daemons. A bloodletter/bloodthrister would never betray Khorne for a defiler body. As they are part of their god.

It doesn't strike me that Khornate followers serve Khorne so much as they want to kill things. After all, Khorne cares not from where the blood flows - even if it flows from his own followers, or himself. Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch are all worth praying to, and are adored by their followers, but Khornate individuals seem to have a kind of indifference to their patron, as he does to them. He doesn't answer prayers, and his favoured wouldn't bother asking. It doesn't matter who they kill, as long as they do it. Killing is the main deal - Khorne has no real other agenda, and so as long as a daemon kills something (be it Khorne's own or not) or gets killed itself, he's happy.

Hence, I could very well see Khornate daemons fighting Khornate daemons, for the pure love of slaughter. Loyalty isn't one of Khorne's big issues - it's about killing as much as possible, as often as possible. So I can't see him actually having all that much of a problem with his Bloodthirsters getting their Soul Grinder on; divided loyalties mean absolutely nothing, as long as the killing gets done.

Tzeentch, of course, is the master of loyalty, and would probably encourage certain underlings to join the Soul Grinder Corps, confident in the knowledge that regardless of who they think they're serving, Tzeentch's interests will be attended to.

I could see Slaanesh's daemons going for the Grind due to some lover's tiff or spat of jealousy; it's often said that, while Nurgle is thought of as a jolly grandfather, Slaanesh is more like a jealous lover - and we've all been in the situation where a partner has angered us enough that we go and do something stupid; "Have a go at me for being drunk, will you? Well let's see how you like it when I'm hammered!", amongst other examples. The prodigal daemon might well spend a few centuries doing the Forge's bidding, until the eventual tearful reunion. Just because the daemon is Slaanesh's own doesn't change this - spiteful lovers are as self-destructive as they are destructive of everything else.

Nurgle would be the problem god for me. They all love Papa so much, it's hard to see them swearing against him.